Israel under attack from Hamas
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
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That's taken dramatically out of context. In the context of Gaza politics, Haniyeh was considered the more moderate and pragmatic voice. That's why he was the main Hamas contact for the ceasefire talks.
well, they still trust us enough to use our gear and cash our checks, so...
Of course we would have. They assassinated the guy they were negotiating with, and the US is all in on the negotiations succeeding to avoid a broader war. From our POV this was a terrible mistake.
And how was that working out for them... Haniyeh was simply a well dressed terrorist... He blew off several reasonable offers to exchange the hostages while simply attempting to "run out the clock" in terms of world opinion of the Israelis...
Thinking like this is why we end up dealing with a-holes like that...
The Israelis made a Statement and their approach is one We should have taken long, long ago...
Ceasefire talks are a complete rouse. A moderate amongst Hamas is a total farce considering he's waged war and sponsored terrorist attacks for decades. He was knowingly involved in October 7th.
If you want legitimate ceasefire talks, there was no way this guy was going to get them there.
Israel knew exactly what it was doing. Only the delusional actually think that a clown like Blinken has any chance of making an impact. If there are successful peace talks, it won't be done by this incompetent administration.
I'd argue that the actual mistake is the belief that Hamas is an organization Israel can negotiate with.
Qatar's leader said today that two parties can't negotiate when one is assassinating the other's leaders. That's true. But what he leaves out is that two parties also can't negotiate when one side exists pretty much solely to annihilate the other one. That is and always has been Hamas' objective.
From Israel's standpoint, and I can certainly understand it, the only way out here is either for Hamas to unconditionally surrender (which isn't going to happen) or else be militarily incapacitated.
His "pragmatism"
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He watched the Oct. 7th attacks and prayed in celebration. If he is the moderate, then there is no point in negotiating.
To me, this is like musing about successful peace talks between the frog and the scorpion.
I think Hillary Clinton described this really well:
“People who are calling for a ceasefire now, don’t understand Hamas... It would be such a gift to Hamas because they would spend whatever time [that] there was a ceasefire in effect rebuilding their armaments... to be able to fend off an eventual assault by the Israelis.”
It's true that there is such a thing as a belligerent who can and should be bargained with for peace. But there are also belligerents who cannot and should not -- and that's when their ultimate objective is the other party's destruction. In such cases, your only choice is to do it first.And those 241 American deaths have never been avenged. We turned tail and ran right out of that place.
Overall, I like Reagan, but that was a shameful decision.
Shows how impotent Iran is. Why did Biden take off the sanctions against Iran again?
Hamas is nothing but a death cult. They are willing to die to exterminate Israel. We should let them.
Interesting opinion piece. This guy describes himself as a "Moscow-based American political analyst specializing in the global systemic transition to multipolarity", so take it for what it's worth.
korybko.substack.com
Five Takeaways From Israel’s Assassination Of Hamas’ Political Leader In Tehran
Haniyeh’s assassination is a watershed event in the latest Israeli-Hamas War, which is now a regional Israeli-Iranian proxy war, since it greatly spikes the risk of everything spiraling into “mutually assured destruction”.
korybko.substack.com
Maybe. I'm just saying it's wrong to go after the BBC like this. All they wrote is that compared to the rest of Hamas, Haniyeh was considered more moderate, and that's true.
Possible. Doesn't matter now. Negotiations are over. The only questions now are how far Israel goes and how widespread the conflict becomes.
Claiming to be the most moderate among terrorist murderers is an irrelevant consideration.
He got his proper prize.
No, it's not. Maybe you're not old enough to remember how the United States reacted to the American hostages taken during the Iranian Revolution.
Have you ever heard of the TV show Nightline? I'm old enough to have watched it (during the summer, it was before my bedtime) and I'm old enough to remember both the number of days hostages were held as a big deal and a celebration, in my school, with teachers and kids literally standing up and cheering like we had just won the Super Bowl when the hostages were released. This is not an exaggeration.
Now compare that to today. When's the last time you saw a headline about it? On your news feed? When's the last time you talked about it with a friend or neighbor? In my world, I don't have a single person who has EVER brought it up, despite plenty of other discussions about politics, Ukraine, Israel, etc. For the Iranian hostages, every house on my street--every single one, I remember riding my bike around and counting--had a yellow ribbon tied around a tree in the front yard. Look out your door and tell me how many ribbons you see tied on trees, in honor and remembrance of the US hostages currently being held.
As for Biden, Harris, and Trump, they don't talk about it enough. Serious question that I don't know the answer to: has Biden addressed the nation on TV a single time about the hostages and what we are doing to bring them home?
Didn't you just suggest context matters? That's like saying the tallest midget... If BBC qualified Hamas in some way - for example, saying the "most moderate member of Hamas, a globally recognized terrorist organization", it would have been more accurate.
The context isn't whether or not Hamas is a bad organization. We already know that. The context is the closest thing they have to someone remotely reasonable is now dead.
Unconfirmed but if true the Israelis are pretty much showing they can get anyone, anywhere in the Middle East. Been a bad day to be a piece of shit Islamic Terrorist and/or one of their enablers.
Now that's one I'd like the Americans to be able to take credit for.
Looks like he is gonna miss his prediction
Here we go...
Let's hope the Iranians survival instincts kick in otherwise this might just be the start of something Big...
Supposedly Hezbollah has close to 200,00 missiles they can fire at Israel, Iran 300,000, the Houtis unknown but enough to cause a problem...
If Israel is under full scale attack the gloves most likely come off in a major way... 1/3 of Lebanon flattened, 1/3 of Iran flattened, 1/3 of Yemen flattened and probably not a real lesson learned...
Let's hope the Iranians survival instincts kick in otherwise this might just be the start of something Big...
Supposedly Hezbollah has close to 200,00 missiles they can fire at Israel, Iran 300,000, the Houtis unknown but enough to cause a problem...
If Israel is under full scale attack the gloves most likely come off in a major way... 1/3 of Lebanon flattened, 1/3 of Iran flattened, 1/3 of Yemen flattened and probably not a real lesson learned...
The Hamas hierarchy as of last night..., (who knows who'll be missing in the morning)...
https://nypost.com/2024/07/31/world...ule-gaza-after-ismail-haniyehs-assassination/
Always nice to have a roster on hand...
https://nypost.com/2024/07/31/world...ule-gaza-after-ismail-haniyehs-assassination/
Always nice to have a roster on hand...
I think you are talking about the "before times," when there were just 3 major networks. There's a major war still going on in Europe with immense consequences for all of us, but that also seems to have got lost in the shuffle. different times, noisier world.
Took me 5 minutes to find Biden speaking about the US hostages often over the last 9 months. I imagine Trump and Harris would do the same. maybe we just can't hear it.
President Biden on American Hostages
During remarks before a group of Jewish community leaders at the White House, President Biden said "he has not given up hope" on bringing American hostages home from Gaza. He also reinforced U.S. support for Israel, saying his commitment is "unshakeable."
Taking care of family business.This is starting to feel like the final scene of The Godfather.
Often? You posted three links, two of which cover the same situation (and he only spoke in one) and the third from October 23 where he was talking to a group of Jewish leaders.I think you are talking about the "before times," when there were just 3 major networks. There's a major war still going on in Europe with immense consequences for all of us, but that also seems to have got lost in the shuffle. different times, noisier world.
Took me 5 minutes to find Biden speaking about the US hostages often over the last 9 months. I imagine Trump and Harris would do the same. maybe we just can't hear it.
President Biden on American Hostages
During remarks before a group of Jewish community leaders at the White House, President Biden said "he has not given up hope" on bringing American hostages home from Gaza. He also reinforced U.S. support for Israel, saying his commitment is "unshakeable."www.c-span.org
I mean, maybe this is just a symptom of the President not speaking publicly to the nation all that much over the last year.
Re “the before times,” I don’t know which troubles me more: We don’t care as much about these hostages because we think they are more Israeli than American, or we just don’t care as much about hostages anymore because we have so much TV to watch.
I think a good leader, though, has the ability to focus the nation on a project or idea and could do that here. I do not think Biden or Harris or Trump are good leaders of this kind. And that worries me.
Biden is right, though, that he can’t openly talk about methods. I get that. I still think it’s important to rally the nation around our fellow countrymen held hostage in a foreign land.
I don't expect the hostages to be found alive. Let the Israelis continue to mete out the punishment for us.
This is going to make it more difficult to negotiate for our hostages, too.
Israel got chewed up pretty good last time they went into Lebanon. Something like 1:1 casualties.
Biden is obsessed with not escalating the fighting and a cease fire, hoping that will cause a hostage release. That isn’t leadership. Neither objective provides a viable path to a solution. It only returns the ME to pre 10/7 Conditions.
In fairness, though, Kirby spoke of eliminating Hamas as a threat. Kamala doesn’t even mention that. She wants Israeli immediate withdrawal from Gaza and leaving Hamas as is.
While Biden can’t openly speak of methods, he can and should say more than he does. Iran is behind all the ME turmoil and bloodshed caused by the Houthis, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Yet Biden never mentions that. We should at least be mobilizing world opinion against Iran if not taking stronger measures. Biden’s Iranian leniency is inexplicable.
It brings up an interesting, thorny hypothetical: do you risk the lives of a few US citizens taken hostage in the hope of increasing the odds of solving this war? Do you put US lives above all else, no matter how many innocent Palestinians or Israelis die as a result?
Do you think they're all alive? Hopefully, but I have my doubts.
However, so far as leverage goes, it would be in Hamas' best interest to do more proof-of-life displays. They did one for Hersh Goldberg-Polin under pressure from Qatar back in April. But I can't remember any since then.
You frame the question as the Biden administration obviously sees the situation.
I don’t think it is a given that a more aggressive posture would risk the hostages or put more innocents s at risk.
We see in real time the consequences of passiveness and “proportional” response. The Suez Canal is closed. Thousands of Israelis have been evacuated from the north. Gaza suffers under ongoing war. People continue to die. Maybe a clearly stated threat, accompanied by a willingness to take action, (that Israel showed the last two days) of consequences for continued and increasing anti- west and anti- Israel fighting will have a positive effect.
