Yep, I am working one of the graduations. IU moved it's main graduation to Saturday night. Some of us worry people won't stay around.
Israel under attack from Hamas
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
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Here is a calendar
commencement.indiana.edu
Upcoming ceremonies
The Commencement ceremony dates for this academic year.
Oh duh!! I knew that. Lol. I’m a week ahead. I was thinking this weekend was May. That’s what happens when you aren’t working!! I was wondering between May 4 and May 11! Sorry! That’s the calendar I was looking at!Here is a calendar
Upcoming ceremonies
The Commencement ceremony dates for this academic year.
What rules? Having tents on Dunn Meadow? Since when was that a rule? There was people who had tents in Dunn Meadow for like a year protesting the Iraq war when I was there.
Sounds like the university pulled a new rule out of their ass literally the day before. And having State Police enforcement is pretty over the top.
‘Utterly unprincipled’: Policy created on eve of protest used to make arrests
IUPD said 33 protesters were arrested.
www.idsnews.com
I have no common political position with these protesters whatsoever... But this isn't an action from the state that I can support whatsoever. And nor should anyone else. Unless you pick and choose the 'correct' response based upon its alignment with your political views.
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Or unless you think no one should be doing this regardless of the reason. I don’t care if they’re protesting cancer, get the tents & camping bs outta there. Come back tomorrow if you want to do it again.What rules? Having tents on Dunn Meadow? Since when was that a rule? There was people who had tents in Dunn Meadow for like a year protesting the Iraq war when I was there.
Sounds like the university pulled a new rule out of their ass literally the day before. And having State Police enforcement is pretty over the top.
‘Utterly unprincipled’: Policy created on eve of protest used to make arrests
IUPD said 33 protesters were arrested.
I have no common political position with these protesters whatsoever... But this isn't an action from the state that I can support whatsoever. And nor should anyone else. Unless you pick and choose the 'correct' response based upon its alignment with your political views.
People have been setting up protest camps in Dunn Meadow since the '60s. This seems like very selective enforcement, likely coming from the Gov's office.
I don't believe in "rules" anymore. I believe in fair treatment. People get arrested outside of abortion clinics for peaceful protest and have the FBI show up to kick in their door to drag them off to jail. I watched these same type of assholes burn down and destroy cities across the US 4 years ago. Good for the goose, good for the gander. They were protesting across the street from the Chabad center. Right wing speakers and events have been disrupted and cancelled all over the country for years because these types of protestors said they felt "unsafe" and threw a fit. So nah, screw them. We haven't had free flow of voices on college campuses for years and now that it is blowing the other way we are going to say, "Well we're too good for this..." I am not. These kids would protest Ben Shapiro showing up on campus, they don't give a f--- about free speech so I don't give a f--- that they had their rules applied to them. They were warned for years that eventually this will blow back on them. They should keep learning until they give the same grace they expect to get when we disagree.What rules? Having tents on Dunn Meadow? Since when was that a rule? There was people who had tents in Dunn Meadow for like a year protesting the Iraq war when I was there.
Sounds like the university pulled a new rule out of their ass literally the day before. And having State Police enforcement is pretty over the top.
‘Utterly unprincipled’: Policy created on eve of protest used to make arrests
IUPD said 33 protesters were arrested.
I have no common political position with these protesters whatsoever... But this isn't an action from the state that I can support whatsoever. And nor should anyone else. Unless you pick and choose the 'correct' response based upon its alignment with your political views.
I moved to the sliding scale when it became clear our norms were toast anyway.
Fair treatment? Who decides what is fair?
If you're so flippant with the 1A what about the others in the BOR? Those all on a sliding scale?
Exactly. How many times over the years have conservative or right leaning speakers and events been interrupted, shut down, and/or canceled because these EXACT same types of groups have either caused such a stir that the powers that be claimed it was "unsafe" to hold the event? We could go back a decade and the news is littered with examples. Students on campus felt "unsafe" so any myriad of reasons was given to shut them down. Well Jewish students feel "unsafe" around these protests. So based on prior precedent they get severely restricted and shut down when meeting whatever criteria the school came up with at that point in time to silence something they felt was undesirable.
They seem to be on a sliding scale when applied to my political beliefs. Again, conservatives have been complaining for decades about 1A rights on college campuses and those complaints fell on deaf ears. It wasn't that the colleges wanted this speech they disagreed with shut down, it is that there were safety concerns with the speech. It made students feel unsafe so we really can't have you on campus Mr. Shapiro. Too many students don't like you and they show up and break stuff Mr. Jordan. You are inciting trans-genocide Ms. Gaines and the protestors want to hurt you so we need to close this down and shove you in a room for your own safety.
There has been a sliding scale for years. Years and years. Would I like it if we could have mostly cordial disagreements and people could speak their voice (within reason)? Sure. Am I going to go out and be some turbo 1A defender for these people? No. They consistently and constantly have had the hecklers veto for the majority of my lifetime. These people are shouting things across the street from the Jewish center that could be construed as hateful and scary to Jewish students. They were attempting to set up camp and erect tents in which any manner of weapons or contraband could be smuggled in to harass and hurt Jewosh students. Similar movements set up at other college campuses have included taking over of prominent spots on campus and then intimidating those they don't agree with to the point where some schools were encouraging Jewish students to not come to class. These protests popped up in campuses across the country on the same day indicating coordination. All of these things would have gotten a conservative protest shut down in the past. They were given hours to comply on just taking down the tents which were a potential threat to the public. They refused, they got arrested. Good.
If these people want to change the rules that they themselves came up with, I am all ears. I expect to see good faith action before I believe them. Until that time break up their gatherings, intimidate them to shut up, threaten their gatherings so they can't have them, and arrest them when they don't follow every petty rule to the T. Those are the rules now.
you understand there is a pretty wide difference between a college administrator revoking the invitation to a speaker and the state police showing up in combat gear and posting snipers on the roof of the IMU?
Seems like you just need an emotional vent. Not serious discussion.
Ok, rant over. I touched on the serious discussion a bit (although I seriously don't give a f--- about these people being arrested because of the reasons I listed...) but here you go.
When these protests have started on other campuses and the protestors were able to establish foothold in a region of the campus, they almost always led to intimidation of other students. Dunn Meadow sits across from the Chabad center. The likelihood that Jewish students would be traversing this area are fairly high. Allowing a whole bunch of people who likely aren't students to set up a camp in the middle of campus and then have the likelihood of them harassing actual students be more than zero meant that the University and the state which helps run the University had a compelling argument to make sure the protest remained a temporary one. The protestors refused the reasonable request to pack up the tents. They were then told to leave since they were not following orders given to them by the police. They refused and the ones who were the most obstinate got arrested.
As to the sniper, people were dressing up as terrorists and making the same arguments as terrorists so the potential that someone, ginned up by the rhetoric, might take it upon themselves to walk across the street and start attacking a symbol of their vitriol was also less than zero. That is called being proactive.
Align yourselves with Islamic terrorists and wear their uniform, expect to get a little extra attention given their proclivity to stabby stab, rat-a-tat, and kaboom their points home.
Considering the protestors hosted Passover Seder, I'm guessing you are correct.
IU Divestment Coalition hosts Passover Seder after arrests at Dunn Meadow encampment
A circle to celebrate Passover Seder formed at 7:30 p.m. Thursday.
www.idsnews.com
Rules/laws/policy changes. Encampments aren’t necessary to protest. Protest away every day, but allowing these encampments invites non-residents, non-students, etc. to come hang out for a few days & stir up trouble. No thanks, seems like a good time to make some changes.
Yeah, after they took down the stuff and some of them were hauled off to jail. Sorry, you aren't going to get any sympathy from me. Asking them to remove the tents was a reasonable request. Being prepared for unexpected violence was a reasonable response. When the protestors acted within the parameters they were given, they were able to air their stupid and shitty opinions without harassment as your article shows. See how simple it would have been for them to just pull down the tents? But ACAB and f--- the police and all that crap right?Considering the protestors hosted Passover Seder, I'm guessing you are correct.
IU Divestment Coalition hosts Passover Seder after arrests at Dunn Meadow encampment
A circle to celebrate Passover Seder formed at 7:30 p.m. Thursday.
These people aren't going to get sympathy from me. I don't like them, I don't like their views, and the way they are being treated is exactly how they advocate treatment of MAGA or anybody else they don't agree with. The response was reasonable and it had the extra benefit from my POV of screw these people. Win/win.
I have been up front with that BUT, I would be much more sympathetic to their cause if not for this:
Or this:
Or all of these:
'Disinvitations' for college speakers are on the rise — here's a list of people turned away this year
Student activism has long been ingrained in college culture, but protests about perceived discrimination over the past year have been especially tense.
www.google.com
Those articles go back a decade and no movement to make sure their voices could be heard in free exchange on college campuses because they aren't the type of views colleges generally agree with. So no, I don't care these stupid terrorist sympathizing assholes got arrested. Screw them.
And people like this being what is driving this movement is the cherry on top of the F--- them sundae:
The tents may be problematic for IU. The official policy posted online allows tents so long as they are removed by 11pm. IU changed that policy yesterday morning. Of course there was no publication such policy was changed. Two of the faculty that were present are Jewish and said no one knew the policy change.
The image though that bothers me going around in email, a sharpshooter on the IMU tower.
Then you don't care about free speech. You're no better than Uncle Mark with his "any means necessary" take in Trump. You are standing on tribe, not principle.I have been up front with that BUT, I would be much more sympathetic to their cause if not for this:
Or this:
Or all of these:
'Disinvitations' for college speakers are on the rise — here's a list of people turned away this year
Student activism has long been ingrained in college culture, but protests about perceived discrimination over the past year have been especially tense.
Those articles go back a decade and no movement to make sure their voices could be heard in free exchange on college campuses because they aren't the type of views colleges generally agree with. So no, I don't care these stupid terrorist sympathizing assholes got arrested. Screw them.
And people like this being what is driving this movement is the cherry on top of the F--- them sundae:
Principle has gotten the political right NO WHERE on college campuses. Literally, they get silenced on one hand and then are expected to defend the free speech of the very people silencing them. I am out on that, full stop. These lefty dickheads stop acting the way they do whenever someone they disagree with shows up to talk and maybe I will take a little less satisfaction in watching a police officer throwing them down and cuffing them in the future. Until then, screw them. I mean, "Man that is terrible and we should have free speech on campus..tut..tut..." And now I will do nothing but that. That is the energy almost all of you had around conservative complaints in the past.
I do bet that all sorts of action will be taken now because the right people got their feewings hurt this time.
Bottom line, I am beyond past tired of the platitudes given when a conservative protest or event is shut down (if even that) while the action of deplatforming them continues. If the 1A isn't a two way street on college campuses (and it isn't), then you are going to have a hard time convincing people who have been on the losing end of that proposition to feel bad when it goes the other way for once in a decade.
Let me amend a statement, IU says the changes were posted online Thursday morning. So there would have been a chance at notice, but I doubt anyone checked for updates.
When conservative speakers were silenced on campus, I disagreed. I didn't do anything about it, but then I'm not asking you to do anything about it, either. I'm not even asking you to disagree. I'm just pointing out that by celebrating something you would clearly condemn should it happen to your tribe, you're being an unprincipled hypocrite.
Guilty.
I know it is hypocritical and theoretically I think these people should be able to voice their displeasure no matter how stupid and juvenile I think they are. I think that is how things should work in a correctly functioning society with a functional social compact. I don't believe we have that, particularly on college campuses. Ergo, I throw out my principles and take the more pragmatic approach. Complaining about my "team's" speech being throttled and watching nothing change to alleviate that situation and then turning around and defending the speech of the other "team" who actively participate in suppressing speech they dislike ends with the voices I believe needing heard silenced while the voices I disagree with are amplified.
You may not agree but there are areas where our social compact has completely broken down and I think the voices I agree with have been on the losing side of that breakdown. There are neutral parties, like yourself, who would say you disagree with the silencing but in application nothing happens. The fact of the matter is that might has made right. Those people show up and riot and intimidate their way into silencing the opposition. No amount of reason from people like me or principled people like you who disagree with the message and the silencing of the message has deterred them from their behavior or changed the facts on the ground. So pragmatically, principles should be tossed aside, IMO, until those who are actively upsetting the social compact are brought back to heel.
So yes, totally a hypocrite and will remain a hypocrite until Riley Gaines can show up to say "women are women" on college campuses without having to get a police escort to protect her from left wing free speech advocates.
Across the street from the Dunn Meadow protests, Jewish students yelled at the protestors. That is great, they have that right. People have the right to speak out against the people speaking out.
Gaines should expect protests, that is great and how the system should work. I 100% agree there should be no violence. But the police show up to protect Gaines from violence, not close to ideal but it is to protect Gaines' free speech. In campuses right now, police are showing up to stop Palestinian protests. If the police showed up to arrest Gaines, we would have apples to apples.
And the terrorist supporting protesters could have stood around and yelled their terrorism support if they took down the tents.
The authorities in many of those situations shut down the events because of the hecklers veto threat of violence from counter protestors who are exactly the same types as those who are protesting for the terrorists. Funny how the protection ends up having the end result of silencing the conservative speakers in the moment. Maybe the Jewish protesters should have showed up with baseball bats and threatened to beat the ever loving shit out of anyone in a keffiyeh and then instead of arresting the protestors the police could have dispersed them and effectively shut them up for their safety.
Theoretically I agree with you. People should be free to say what they want. In practice though, I am not there anymore. Any rights that aren't extended to all end up being oppressive to those who don't enjoy the same protections. There was no 1A when the government worked with social media to shut people up about COVID. There is no 1A when threats of violence shut down events that, let's face it most college administrators and faculty disagree with anyways. So why should I care that the shoe was on the other foot for once? Because of principles? Psssh.
Conservatives have made the mistake of being principled losers for years. All their principles got them was laying out a red carpet for their opponents message to dominate while they were relegated to the basement. My principles are equality in getting my side heard and if that isn't going to happen, then equality in squashing the opposition until they behave. The days of being a principled second class entity should be over for the right.
You are making a fallacy identical to one that I know you disagree with? Should Blacks always run from the police? They have said for years they don't trust the police, they don't feel safe, they don't trust the legal system. Conservatives do not think they get a fair shake from colleges, Blacks do not feel they get a fair shake from police. Where is the comparison wrong?
You've not only tossed out principles... You've also tossed out all logic. Sad.
No, you haven't sold me on why I should care that people who refused an officer's request, for hours, got arrested. Their speech wasn't violated. You yourself posted an article of them being in the same area carrying on their protest, without the tents, unmolested.
My position is logically defensible, you just don't agree with it.
No, it's not logically defensible. Nor morally. Your position is essentially that the fact Riley Gaines needs a police escort to protect her speech justifies the police preventing pro-palestinian protesters from speaking at all. Nothing about what you are promoting is fair or just. It's simply that you don't care what happens to people you don't like.
There’s enough Jewish fraternities at IU that they should be able to win a brawl against these freaks.
AEPi, Sammy, ZBT get down there and crack some skulls.
AEPi, Sammy, ZBT get down there and crack some skulls.
Payback is a bitch. That is the logic. Not going down the rabbit hole too far as I have already explained. The police escort shut up Riley Gaines the same way the police shut up those people yesterday. However, in each case it was the same demographic (leftwing dipshits) who had the choice in the silencing. They chose to be obstinate and lost yesterday and I am glad they were arrested. They are trying to put up tents again today and I will be equally happy too see more of them hauled off to jail.
Let me ask you this, do you think atheists, LGBTQ, or Black/Hispanic kids growing up in rural America are afforded opportunities to speak out, to be themselves, without fear? Could that not help drive the problem we see? They go to college and want revenge?
To the extent that anyone of those groups are growing up in the 1920's cartoonish version of rural America you seem to think exists, forgiveness and abiding by the law is always the answer.
And you might want to check your data. The minority students at these colleges are not rural. They're mostly urban/ suburban and fairly well off.
I remember a huge inflatable whale in Dunn Meadow in the 70s, when 'Save the whales' was the rallying call.
Students love to protest anything. Ignore them and they'll go away. Unless they start disrupting traffic or blocking certain student groups from getting to class or destroying things.
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What Goat is saying is that, if someone comes up and slaps you in the face, and you are against violence, that you are guilty if you slap the person back.
And, if you don't respond, they do it the next day. And the next. And the next.
If you retaliate, or act the way they act, in any way, he's quick to cry 'hypocrisy', yet he's the type that, if the slap didn't cause any damage, wouldn't consider it a big deal.
It's all part of the intimidation of conservative, or alternate, speech. It's no big deal when 'they' do it, but you're a hypocrite if it's done to them.
When have you ever called out UncleMark for his 'any means necessary' take?
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