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Is The US Outfoxing Russia?

Wow. @toastedbread is back. Really thought you might be stuck in that Hezbolahh cell for a while.

Where have you been? Don't tell me Florida.
Nah. lol. Tejas. I read this place when I'm bored, but otherwise was focusing on other pursuits that are in theory healthier. Except I'm too lazy to actually work on those pursuits. Some domestic travel as well to no useful end. I may PM you actually when I get around to it.

I'm actually quite annoyed about this whole Russian thing for selfish reasons as we were planning a period of indefinite travel with a long stay in Russia for multiple months starting from June 2023.
 
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Nah. lol. Tejas. I read this place when I'm bored, but otherwise was focusing on other pursuits that are in theory healthier. Except I'm too lazy to actually work on those pursuits. Some domestic travel as well to no useful end. I may PM you actually when I get around to it.

I'm actually quite annoyed about this whole Russian thing for selfish reasons as we were planning a period of indefinite travel with a long stay in Russia for multiple months starting from June 2023.

Not out of realm that the Russia/ Ukraine thing will peter out by then. Putin has to do these things here and there to keep his reason for existence (for his domestic population) intact.
 
Putin has to do these things here and there to keep his reason for existence (for his domestic population) intact.
I'm not even sure there is a populace that needs placating. There is no opposition to speak of at the moment. Unless you are implying opposition to the right of Putin? Various nationalists? Most are on his payroll.
 
I'm not even sure there is a populace that needs placating. There is no opposition to speak of at the moment. Unless you are implying opposition to the right of Putin? Various nationalists? Most are on his payroll.


Every autocrat fears a rebellion every time they go to bed. Especially someone as paranoid as Putin.

Of course there is a population that needs placating...particularly if it comes to the point of a shooting war, with families are having their kids coming home in body bags.
 
Not out of realm that the Russia/ Ukraine thing will peter out by then. Putin has to do these things here and there to keep his reason for existence (for his domestic population) intact.
It may also be Putin‘s last hurrah with Parkinson’s presumably starting to take him down.
 
Every autocrat fears a rebellion every time they go to bed. Especially someone as paranoid as Putin.

Of course there is a population that needs placating...particularly if it comes to the point of a shooting war, with families are having their kids coming home in body bags.
There have been bodies from Syria. Not much fanfare. Putin is firmly in control imo. By control I mean the general populace. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes of his oligarch cronies. Perhaps that's a risk.
 
There have been bodies from Syria. Not much fanfare. Putin is firmly in control imo. By control I mean the general populace. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes of his oligarch cronies. Perhaps that's a risk.

Oh he's definitely fully in control. But low scale military operations is much different than attempting to occupy a place like Ukraine with an Army. Some of the wargame stuff I've read regarding a full blown Ukraine invasion indicates a situation that would quickly bog down in a hot mess for the Russians. Just the supply logistics would likely be a huge challenge for them.
 
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Oh he's definitely fully in control. But low scale military operations is much different than attempting to occupy a place like Ukraine with an Army. Some of the wargame stuff I've read regarding a full blown Ukraine invasion indicates a situation that would quickly bog down in a hot mess for the Russians. Just the supply logistics would likely be a huge challenge for them.
Let’s hope Russia bogs down in the Ukraine and China dogpiles them from the rear.
 
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Oh he's definitely fully in control. But low scale military operations is much different than attempting to occupy a place like Ukraine with an Army. Some of the wargame stuff I've read regarding a full blown Ukraine invasion indicates a situation that would quickly bog down in a hot mess for the Russians. Just the supply logistics would likely be a huge challenge for them.
Agreed. But I think much of this is contingent on Ukrainian will and spirit to resist. I can't form a meaningful opinion on this question. It's not entirely out of the realm that we see something similar to Afghanistan.
 
Josh Marshall at TPM wrote/posted two articles referencing the US’ continual broadcasting of an imminent Russian invasion.


“I’ve mentioned before that while constant threats of an invasion are a powerful weapon for Russia, an actual invasion is fraught with danger. I don’t know if this is all a bluff. But I do think Russia is leery about the risks of actually following through and invading Ukraine. By continually saying an invasion is imminent, the U.S. is highlighting the fact that Russia keeps threatening but not acting. All threats and no action.”

“Rather than keeping everyone else on tenterhooks they’re looking more and more like they’re bluffing or unwilling or unable to actually follow through on their threats. Putin himself seemed to allude to this earlier this month when he accused the U.S. of trying to goad Russia into invading.”

“Could the U.S. actually force Russia’s hand or make it harder for Russia to back down? I doubt it? But it’s a reasonable question. What I do think they’re doing is attempting to turn Russia’s most effective weapon — the looming threat of military action — against them. Rather than keep the atmosphere of threat at a constant simmer, the U.S. keeps raising it to a fever pitch and then having the Russia actually not act.”

Part two:


“I think the other reason the administration keeps talking about an imminent invasions is that it helps them define the narrative should one occur. They want to ensure that the narrative is that Putin, without provocation, amassed a massive number of troops and then invaded. Brazen, unadulterated military aggression. It may seem obvious that that would be the narrative but it’s not. The narrative could be that Putin moved troops to the border and the West didn’t react strongly enough or leaned too hard on diplomacy or that something the US said or did provoked Russia into acting, etc., etc. I suspect that by ceaseless repetition the administration hopes to cement the narrative as brazen unadulterated military aggression, full stop. By relentlessly predicting it, they hope to define the lens through which it is understood.”

Whether Russia invades or not, it’s comforting knowing grownups are in charge rather than watching a fool tripping over himself trying to get Putin to “like him”.
I guess we can rule out outfoxing now :)
 
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I guess we can rule out outfoxing now :)
I agree that it seems wrong, but Ukraine has called up its reserves (900,000 additional troops). Now he faces sanctions and he’ll see even more if he continues on this track. Also from this point on Russia will have a devastatingly costly ground war, in both blood and treasure, and even more costly sanctions.

He’s exactly in the place he should be. It’s a no win situation. Of course, Donald Trump calls Putin “a genius”.
 
I agree that it seems wrong, but Ukraine has called up its reserves (900,000 additional troops). Now he faces sanctions and he’ll see even more if he continues on this track. Also from this point on Russia will have a devastatingly costly ground war, in both blood and treasure, and even more costly sanctions.

He’s exactly in the place he should be. It’s a no win situation. Of course, Donald Trump calls Putin “a genius”.
And we also have Mike Pompeo publicly licking Putin’s balls. I’m actually embarrassed for Trump and his minions, as destructive as they are. It’s rare you witness such weak people.
 
And we also have Mike Pompeo publicly licking Putin’s balls. I’m actually embarrassed for Trump and his minions, as destructive as they are. It’s rare you witness such weak people.
Yes. I don’t want to hear anything more from these losers. They claim to be patriots who love our constitution, but cheer on a despot vs a democracy aligned with the West.

They are disgusting people. And it clearly shows Trump would never stand up to Putin. He wants to be Putin.

If there were ever traitors who give comfort to our enemies, it would be these criminals and about 3/4ths of the Republican Party.
 
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I think the succinct conclusion following recent events is that Putin got the US’s lunch money.

Complaining about the description of the events by a particular source is a distraction on the impact of the outcome.

I think it’s also quite likely Russian troops never leave Belarus. Buy 1 get 1 free.
 
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Putin would never have invaded under Trump but with weak kneeded Joe no problem. Looks like Liz C got what she wanted.

JUST IN - Putin announces in a televised speech the start of a military operation against #Ukraine and declares that Russia aims to demilitarize the neighboring country.


Calls on the Ukrainian military to "lay down its arms."


@disclosetv
 
Putin would never have invaded under Trump but with weak kneeded Joe no problem. Looks like Liz C got what she wanted.

JUST IN - Putin announces in a televised speech the start of a military operation against #Ukraine and declares that Russia aims to demilitarize the neighboring country.


Calls on the Ukrainian military to "lay down its arms."


@disclosetv
One is trying to stop Russia in concert with our NATO allies. Trump is calling Putin “a genius” and Trump essentially tried to destroy NATO on Putin’s behalf. You’re going to say “Putin would have never invaded under Trump.”? By what metric?

Wow…you really are pathetic.
 
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Putin would never have invaded under Trump but with weak kneeded Joe no problem. Looks like Liz C got what she wanted.

JUST IN - Putin announces in a televised speech the start of a military operation against #Ukraine and declares that Russia aims to demilitarize the neighboring country.


Calls on the Ukrainian military to "lay down its arms."


@disclosetv
That is so simplistic and has no consideration for the role natural gas plays. Trump couldn't win another election and it has nothing to do with Senator Chaney.
 
I hear senile Joe is dropping the hammer with sanctions this afternoon. Putin will never know what hit him as Joe will just crush him ! And now China is likely to invade Tawain but they better think twice Joe will crush them. You mess with the bull you get Joe Biden and nobody wants to be on the othe end of a mad Joe Biden.

Meanwhile the southern border remains wide open.
 
OPINION — As I write this column Tuesday afternoon, Europe and the U.S. are facing the most serious military crisis since World War II, and Joe Biden is late for a news conference to announce sanctions against Russia for its invasion of Ukraine. Sanctions that many believe should have been imposed weeks, if not months, ago.

It seems a perfect metaphor for a president and an administration that always seem behind the curve. Always playing catch-up, whether it’s inflation, COVID-19, crime, energy, the supply chain, Afghanistan or, now, Ukraine. Always on the defense, never taking the initiative to get ahead of a problem, no matter the issue.

It took Biden months to finally admit that inflation wasn’t transitory. But he blamed the supply chain for inflation rather than acknowledging the role his economic and energy policies have played in driving inflation to levels people haven’t experienced since the early 1980s.

His solution now that the country is drowning in debt, while people are struggling to put food on the table and gas up their cars, is to continue to push for more of the same economic mistakes that got us here in the first place.

He’s come late to the mask controversy, so late that Democratic governors in blue states who can read the political tea leaves have lifted mask and vax mandates, having given up on the ability of Biden’s White House or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to get the messaging or the policies right.
 
But the important thing is there are no mean tweets! Isn't that what electing Biden was all about! 100 dollar a barrel oil and 6 dollar a gallon gas who cares as long as there are no mean tweets. I doubt the sanctions do much of anything China I am sure is fully in support of Russia and will help them financially.


@Cernovich


Anyhow not really much anyone can do. Russia has nukes, clearly Putin got China’s OK and has a financial situation worked out. We in the US are biggest losers. No keystone pipeline. No clean nuclear power. No clout. A bunch of saps soon to be paying $6 a gallon.

2:35 AM · Feb 24, 2022·Twitter for iPhone


@ACTBrigitte
· 7h
Putin is going to take Ukraine, Xi is going to take Taiwan, and Iran will acquire nukes. This will be Joe Biden's legacy.

If you wanted to help Putin, shutting down a huge gas pipeline would be the move. Who shut down the Keystone Pipeline?

2:0
Likes
 
OPINION — As I write this column Tuesday afternoon, Europe and the U.S. are facing the most serious military crisis since World War II, and Joe Biden is late for a news conference to announce sanctions against Russia for its invasion of Ukraine. Sanctions that many believe should have been imposed weeks, if not months, ago.

It seems a perfect metaphor for a president and an administration that always seem behind the curve. Always playing catch-up, whether it’s inflation, COVID-19, crime, energy, the supply chain, Afghanistan or, now, Ukraine. Always on the defense, never taking the initiative to get ahead of a problem, no matter the issue.

It took Biden months to finally admit that inflation wasn’t transitory. But he blamed the supply chain for inflation rather than acknowledging the role his economic and energy policies have played in driving inflation to levels people haven’t experienced since the early 1980s.

His solution now that the country is drowning in debt, while people are struggling to put food on the table and gas up their cars, is to continue to push for more of the same economic mistakes that got us here in the first place.

He’s come late to the mask controversy, so late that Democratic governors in blue states who can read the political tea leaves have lifted mask and vax mandates, having given up on the ability of Biden’s White House or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to get the messaging or the policies right.
BTW whose opinion is this anyway? Most people at least let us know when they post. Thank you!
 
Putin would never have invaded under Trump but with weak kneeded Joe no problem. Looks like Liz C got what she wanted.

JUST IN - Putin announces in a televised speech the start of a military operation against #Ukraine and declares that Russia aims to demilitarize the neighboring country.


Calls on the Ukrainian military to "lay down its arms."


@disclosetv
As GOAT says it's like trying to teach algebra to a brick. First off this is a (not surprisingly) incredibly STUPID comment from you (and Trump)...

"Putin would never have invaded under Trump but with weak kneeded Joe no problem. Looks like Liz C got what she wanted"

This is on par with claiming the Chinese invented covid to keep Trump from being re-elected, as if the only nation affected and the only politician who had to deal with covid was Trump. Plenty of leaders of other countries dealt with covid intelligently, and became more popular within their country as a result. Trump had the same oppty to succeed or fail, his failures are HIS responsibility...

The only thing that was going to defter Putin from invading Ukraine was getting his way diplomatically, and that involves not just the US unilaterally but NATO as a consensus. It's true Trump and his pro-Putin right wing echo chamber might have been able to concede their way to appeasing Putin for a while, but eventually that would have included surrendering Ukrainian sovereignty. And while Trumpers might have agreed to that, Western Europe and even traditional Republicans would have balked...

Putin more than anything was emboldened by the divide in the US population. In many ways Jan 6 exemplified that split and encouraged Putin to take advantage of the lack of common resolve in the US. Putin's buildup of forces began in the aftermath of Jan 6. 2021. Not only did that lead to renewed buildup of Russian forces on the border, but Putin's propaganda wing was emboldened as well...The recounting of events tells the tale...

Simply comparing the reactions of Democratic govts like Germany, the UK and even Ukraine to the Russian response is very enlightening. How democracies reacted to the Trump attempt at a coup...

And since it's doubtful you know it, Boris Johnson is a Conservative with a majority Conservative govt...



Merkel, despite all the ignorant Trumper attacks on her as a "liberal" was actually the head of the CDU- the center right party in German politics, as opposed to the far right neo-Nazis...

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the images made her "angry and sad" and that Trump had to accept some of the blame. The German foreign minister, Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, urged Trump supporters to "stop trampling" on democratic values. "The enemies of democracy will be pleased to see these incredible images from Washington, D.C.," he added.

Zelinsky was also dismayed...


And Foreign Minister Kuleba


Now contrast that with the Russian response- the Autocrats...And notice how Maas was right on point...

"Diplomats from Russia, which has bristled at U.S. criticism of its record on human rights, democracy, and the rule of law under President Vladimir Putin, took a different tack.

Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said an "archaic" U.S. electoral system and the politicization of the U.S. media were to blame for the unrest in Washington.

On Facebook, Zakharova reposted a comment from a U.S. journalist who wrote, "The United States will never again be able to tell the world that we are the paragon of democracy."

Russia's first deputy ambassador to the United Nations, Dmitry Polyansky, called the images "Maidan-style," a reference to the popular uprising that pushed Ukraine's Moscow-friendly president, Viktor Yanukovych, from power in 2014.


Putin has falsely claimed that months of massive and mostly peaceful protests on Kyiv's Independence Square were a U.S.-backed coup, and the term has a very negative connotation among Russian officials.

"Some of my friends ask whether someone will distribute crackers to the protesters," Polyansky said, a mocking reference to the actions of a U.S. State Department official during the protests on the Maidan in December 2013."

Again this was all detailed in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6 2021. It's a matter of historical record...

 
As GOAT says it's like trying to teach algebra to a brick. First off this is a (not surprisingly) incredibly STUPID comment from you (and Trump)...

"Putin would never have invaded under Trump but with weak kneeded Joe no problem. Looks like Liz C got what she wanted"

This is on par with claiming the Chinese invented covid to keep Trump from being re-elected, as if the only nation affected and the only politician who had to deal with covid was Trump. Plenty of leaders of other countries dealt with covid intelligently, and became more popular within their country as a result. Trump had the same oppty to succeed or fail, his failures are HIS responsibility...

The only thing that was going to defter Putin from invading Ukraine was getting his way diplomatically, and that involves not just the US unilaterally but NATO as a consensus. It's true Trump and his pro-Putin right wing echo chamber might have been able to concede their way to appeasing Putin for a while, but eventually that would have included surrendering Ukrainian sovereignty. And while Trumpers might have agreed to that, Western Europe and even traditional Republicans would have balked...

Putin more than anything was emboldened by the divide in the US population. In many ways Jan 6 exemplified that split and encouraged Putin to take advantage of the lack of common resolve in the US. Putin's buildup of forces began in the aftermath of Jan 6. 2021. Not only did that lead to renewed buildup of Russian forces on the border, but Putin's propaganda wing was emboldened as well...The recounting of events tells the tale...

Simply comparing the reactions of Democratic govts like Germany, the UK and even Ukraine to the Russian response is very enlightening. How democracies reacted to the Trump attempt at a coup...

And since it's doubtful you know it, Boris Johnson is a Conservative with a majority Conservative govt...



Merkel, despite all the ignorant Trumper attacks on her as a "liberal" was actually the head of the CDU- the center right party in German politics, as opposed to the far right neo-Nazis...

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the images made her "angry and sad" and that Trump had to accept some of the blame. The German foreign minister, Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, urged Trump supporters to "stop trampling" on democratic values. "The enemies of democracy will be pleased to see these incredible images from Washington, D.C.," he added.

Zelinsky was also dismayed...


And Foreign Minister Kuleba


Now contrast that with the Russian response- the Autocrats...And notice how Maas was right on point...

"Diplomats from Russia, which has bristled at U.S. criticism of its record on human rights, democracy, and the rule of law under President Vladimir Putin, took a different tack.

Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said an "archaic" U.S. electoral system and the politicization of the U.S. media were to blame for the unrest in Washington.

On Facebook, Zakharova reposted a comment from a U.S. journalist who wrote, "The United States will never again be able to tell the world that we are the paragon of democracy."

Russia's first deputy ambassador to the United Nations, Dmitry Polyansky, called the images "Maidan-style," a reference to the popular uprising that pushed Ukraine's Moscow-friendly president, Viktor Yanukovych, from power in 2014.


Putin has falsely claimed that months of massive and mostly peaceful protests on Kyiv's Independence Square were a U.S.-backed coup, and the term has a very negative connotation among Russian officials.

"Some of my friends ask whether someone will distribute crackers to the protesters," Polyansky said, a mocking reference to the actions of a U.S. State Department official during the protests on the Maidan in December 2013."

Again this was all detailed in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6 2021. It's a matter of historical record...

Hickory liked it so that's all that matters.. Good job sure looked liked alot of work. Meanwhile joe has no idea what he is doing and has an approval below 40%. But an approval on 80% on this board so there is that alternative universe this board lives in. Echo chamber for life.
 
This aged well...Joe's got em right where he wants them. LMAO

That speech yesterday was a show of the weakest leadership this country has ever seen. The world has now taken notice, we aren't sh!t anymore. As the downward spiral continues the dems keep up their delusional support for the traders they elected. The USA 2022, another 3rd world sh!thole. Brought to you by the dems!
👏👏👏👏👏
 
This aged well...Joe's got em right where he wants them. LMAO

That speech yesterday was a show of the weakest leadership this country has ever seen. The world has now taken notice, we aren't sh!t anymore. As the downward spiral continues the dems keep up their delusional support for the traders they elected. The USA 2022, another 3rd world sh!thole. Brought to you by the dems!
👏👏👏👏👏
Just look at all the big Cities that the Dims are in control of. All have turned into 3rd world country's. America is a ship with no Captain.
 
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This aged well...Joe's got em right where he wants them. LMAO

That speech yesterday was a show of the weakest leadership this country has ever seen. The world has now taken notice, we aren't sh!t anymore. As the downward spiral continues the dems keep up their delusional support for the traders they elected. The USA 2022, another 3rd world sh!thole. Brought to you by the dems!
👏👏👏👏👏


Those fkn traders! I think pork belly traders are the worst!
 
This aged well...Joe's got em right where he wants them. LMAO

That speech yesterday was a show of the weakest leadership this country has ever seen. The world has now taken notice, we aren't sh!t anymore. As the downward spiral continues the dems keep up their delusional support for the traders they elected. The USA 2022, another 3rd world sh!thole. Brought to you by the dems!
👏👏👏👏👏
#yeabutTrump
 
The irony of that nonsensical video that was heavily edited to make it seem like Biden admitted some sort of corruption in Ukraine, was that it was part of an hour long lecture/question he gave regarding Russian meddling in Ukraine and former Soviet Republics. Anybody that listened to him thoroughly analyze Russian designs in the area knew that compared to Trump, Biden was an expert on the geo political realities of the region. And any impartial observer would realize that in terms of understanding the region alone, Biden had likely forgotten more about it than Trump would ever know...
Robert Gates begs to differ....
 
U.S. officials spent hundreds of hours over five months debating, crafting and then touting a punishing array of economic sanctions to try to scare Russian President Vladimir Putin off invading Ukraine, but almost from the beginning, many shared the same view: This strategy probably won’t work.


PAID CONTENT

Northrop Grumman believes that diverse peers lead to results

FROM NORTHROP GRUMMAN
Those concerns became reality Thursday after Putin announced a military operation to “protect” the Donbas region of Ukraine, raising fears of an imminent, full-scale invasion across the entire country. In a late-night statement, U.S. President Joe Biden said that he would announce “further consequences” for Russia later Thursday, in addition to sanctions unveiled earlier in the week.


More than a dozen current and former U.S. officials, many of whom helped assemble the response, told Bloomberg News they’ve been deeply dubious that sanctions would change Putin’s behavior. Yet after Biden made clear last year that the U.S. would not send troops or heavy weapons to Ukraine, there were no other solid options. It was left to his team to try to prove, for the first time, that the threat of economic warfare against a major adversary like Russia would suffice when military deterrence wasn’t an option.

Joe's crushing (lol) sanctions that do not even touch Putins oil and gas are a joke. Meanwhile our gas is through the roof because Joe has been trying to shut down new drilling in the USA ever since he took office. John Kerry is worried about climate change and they are paying 5 bucks a gallon in California. You cannot make this stuff up but its what you get when you elect a clown. Good thing no mean tweets though.

And I beg to differ on troops. if Liz Cheaney, Lindsy Graham, Bill Krystol, etc get their way we will have boots on the ground in the not too distance future;
 
U.S. officials spent hundreds of hours over five months debating, crafting and then touting a punishing array of economic sanctions to try to scare Russian President Vladimir Putin off invading Ukraine, but almost from the beginning, many shared the same view: This strategy probably won’t work.


PAID CONTENT

Northrop Grumman believes that diverse peers lead to results

FROM NORTHROP GRUMMAN
Those concerns became reality Thursday after Putin announced a military operation to “protect” the Donbas region of Ukraine, raising fears of an imminent, full-scale invasion across the entire country. In a late-night statement, U.S. President Joe Biden said that he would announce “further consequences” for Russia later Thursday, in addition to sanctions unveiled earlier in the week.


More than a dozen current and former U.S. officials, many of whom helped assemble the response, told Bloomberg News they’ve been deeply dubious that sanctions would change Putin’s behavior. Yet after Biden made clear last year that the U.S. would not send troops or heavy weapons to Ukraine, there were no other solid options. It was left to his team to try to prove, for the first time, that the threat of economic warfare against a major adversary like Russia would suffice when military deterrence wasn’t an option.

Joe's crushing (lol) sanctions that do not even touch Putins oil and gas are a joke. Meanwhile our gas is through the roof because Joe has been trying to shut down new drilling in the USA ever since he took office. John Kerry is worried about climate change and they are paying 5 bucks a gallon in California. You cannot make this stuff up but its what you get when you elect a clown. Good thing no mean tweets though.

And I beg to differ on troops. if Liz Cheaney, Lindsy Graham, Bill Krystol, etc get their way we will have boots on the ground in the not too distance future;
Without SWIFT, INTERPOL and seizing personal assets such as yachts, bank accounts and condos in the FL this is not much more than window dressing.
 
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