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Interesting...

Re: I missed the announcement that IU gets 16 scholarships next year.


Unlike us, Crean knows his needs better than we do at this point. Remember, we have a 6'9" senior to be coming back next year. He may not be the best, however he may be fine as a senior, something many on here want to see more of.

Finally, I think we could see as many as 4 leave for one reason or another after this season. There's no reason to panic over the unknown.
 
The Badgers have only had 2 First Rounders in the last 17...

drafts. Devin Harris was an early departure and selected 5th overall. Alando Tucker was selected 29th and was not considered a sure fire first rounder.

They have had no other threats to leave early up to Dekker and Kaminsky. Dekker saw his stock slide last season and Kaminsky didn't start hitting NBA draft boards until very late last season (link included).

John Leuer (selected 40th in 2011) is the only other Badger drafted since the 1997 draft. There's a pretty good argument to be made that Wisconsin's success is related to something other than the talent level of the individual players. First of all they have only landed 5 top 75 recruits since 2000 (Indiana has landed 18 over the same period), and secondly Wisconsin has only had 2 First Rd. draft choices since 2000 (Indiana has had 7 over the same period).

In short, Wisconsin has 4 year players because they don't land many with early departure talent.

Dekker and Kaminsky
 
If you are a non top 250 recruit, you don't think it is possible

that your heart would drive you to go for a one year try out with an upper tier school? These kids both had waited to sign until the late Spring with hopes that a bigger school would come knocking. These are not the kind of kids who are satisfied with signing with a UTEP or a Bradley, otherwise they already would have. They will still have the opportunity to transfer to those types of schools. The down side is one less year of eligibility, but the bright side is no regrets as they got to experience what big time college basketball is like.

As far as Big Ten guaranteed scholarships...two questions ... 1) Is it retroactive? and 2) Just because the scholarship is guaranteed to the kid, does it necessarily have to be an athletic scholarship?? Perhaps kids who can't perform will be allowed to stay at the school on some kind of financial hardship scholarship if they so choose, but they will not necessarily be part of the athletic program? The big ten press release was rather vague regarding this point.
 
That combined with the fact that even when Wisconsin lands talented players

Bo Ryan could care less for that kid's future and trying to showcase his skill set to scouts. Not necessarily saying a head coach should care about that (their primary obligation is to the school and not to the players), but it does seem that coaches like John Calipari and Tom Crean do care about that sort of thing.
 
I was just looking at the list of offers

that their incoming class received. Of the three Alex Illikanen(sp) is the only one with high major offers. A 3 star 6' 9" guy who is probably viewed as a 4 year player. Just another indicator that maybe Bo recruits guys that fit.

One of the more highly regarded bigs he's acquired in the last several seasons was Utoff. Apparently not a fit.
 
Coach Ryan, there is no question.

In fact, it would be hard to argue for more than 10 coaches in America who have had more success than him. What is it, 15 straight top 4 finishes in the Big Ten? He doesn't have the final fours that Coach Izzo has, but still. He is absolutely elite. Coach Crean is not.

That being said, as far as coach more likely to win a NCAA championship? If Coach Ryan stays at Wisconsin and Coach Crean stays at IU, I would say Coach Crean is more likely to eventually win a championship. If they were to switch schools, I'm not sure.
This post was edited on 2/3 10:11 AM by HouseVD
 
If you were a college professor, would you be concerned if your students

gain employable skills and then actually get employed? I think if the NCAA wants to continue with this construct of the student-athlete and amateurism, this is something that needs to be taken into consideration. Otherwise, these kids should just get paid. If they win, they get more money. If they lose, they get booted off the team and have to find another school to pay their salary.
 
There is a huge difference


not all of my players will not being go pro in basketball where as a professor all of my students will be going into the work field. A college coach is paid to win games and not how many pros he produced so my worries is winning games period.
 
Not all the students will go into the discipline the professor is teaching

Not everyone taking an economics course will go into economics. But I think it behooves the economics professor to teach the class with the assumption that everyone in it might one day be employed in that field.

I just cannot agree with idea that college athletics should be about getting wins alone as a team. Teamwork is a great skill to learn, but unlike professional sports, I think the goal of college athletics is also to expand individual skills in order to make an individual more dynamic, so that they can fit in well with any team they might play for next.
 
sounds very selfish.


I get what you're saying, but as mentioned previously, isn't an institute of higher learnings' first pillar to equip the graduate for success in their chosen field?

sounds like Bo just uses kids to advance himself and Wis.; obviously that's not true, but I think both Crean and Bo and even Cheatapari are serving the type of kids they get.
 
I totally disagree


college coaches are only judged by wins or losses and not how many NBA players they produced. I am thinking about the team as a whole and not just the 2 or 3 players that might end up in the NBA. Was Bobby Knight not as great as a coach because he did not produce as many NBA players as Calapari because I know that RMK did not care about whether his players went pro.
 
Look at it from this angle...

Why would a program do that with two kids who agreed to it and not be public about it? There is nothing intelligent about that position.

The down side is one less year of basketball and two years in a row of really not playing if they want to stay D1. That's just dumb. If they agreed to it, it's dumb. If they agreed to it and IU wasn't public about it, that's even dumber. If they agreed to come to IU has walk-ons with a first year scholarship, that's different, but that's something announced. Granted, it might be the same end result, but it's a completely different mind set than showing up for a year as a tryout.
 
Please define success....

because the majority here don't count conference championships, high APR ratings and sending kids to the league as anything successful.

Final 4 or Bust. If that's the case it's 1-1 with Crean having a much longer shelf life compared to Bo....haha.
 
How do you or any fan judge a coach


We all judge a coach on how much he wins and how far he gets in the tournament and if he does not meet those goals he will lose his job so wins and losses is what he worries about.
 
If that is your definition of sucess


then not very many people are successful in the college game since only 4 out 360 teams make the final four.
 
Butch and Wilkinson

weren't both of them AA?

Butch was 5 * , highly rated coming out of HS: #2 center; #9 overall

Wilkinson was WI's Mr. Basketball.
 
What does that have to do with this discussion


He was fired because he broke the rules but we were talking about whether a coach should worry about players making the NBA or whether winning is what a coach priority is.
 
Disagree. If he only had one worry, it would be going faster.

2 worries may include be sporting a killer tan.


Everything else can be left to WWJMD?


The money is in the bank whether he wins or not.
 
heck of an athlete. is he still a package with Hyron?

any idea what happened to Marvin Rea his previous coach at Bowman?
 
OK


a coach and not just CTC has to worry about winning and not breaking the rules. Most of this conversation started when a poster said that a coach should worry about the draft status of his players and I said that as a coach he needs to be worried about winning because that is what a coach is judged on.
 
On the Pro level, yes I'd judge on wins and losses


but as a NCAA coach he's got to think of the overall welfare of the players in his charge. These are kids who didn't come to you just so you could win a title. They come to better themselves. The agreement is: you improve me, I improve you (by winning).

Cal brings in kids who need little training, so he gets them PR (thanks ESPN, this is what all your gushing has bred)
Crean brings in kids who need training but have the potential to play beyond collage whether that be NBA or Euro etc. This is one of the better traits of Crean. He seems to work very hard to get his kids paid to play ball.
Bo brings in kids (speculating) who just want to play ball, get a degree and maybe play at another level but more likely coach. * tying this to my previous comment, Bo has had a smattering of talent (Butch) but few who've ever reached above their initial star rating despite multiple years of training. Crean would get roasted for this. But then Bo is a very good floor coach. If Crean an Bo could join forces, it be a heck of a combo.
 
It is the way CTC recruits: do YOUR research. He prefers to play 1 post

and 4 wings, so he undervalues post players. If they pan out, stay, don't get injured, etc.... it works OK, if not, we'll we see the last couple years. Look at almost every other top 25 or top half major D1 program and you'll find they generally have 4-6, or more, guys 6'9" or bigger. We've never had that under Crean. So, if we have transfers, early commits, injuries, etc... we are ill-prepared to deal with it. Guess what? We're only marginally better prepared at the PG spot. RJ looks to be panning out as a capable backup, but we should have had a PG in last year or this years class already (to me it became imperative when Remy Abel left, and has been unaddressed). Fortunately, Yogi has been dependable and durable, but we're vulnerable there also. Look at WI, they lost a more important cog, but have both backup posts and PGs and have really continued to roll, despite key losses at both PG and C. We've improvised pretty successfully so far, but we are not developing these positions like most other teams. Now maybe CTC's approach is the right one, and all the other top level teams are wrong, but it doesn't look that way to me.

Where are we for next year? Looks to me like 1 more wing in OG and 1 more undersized PF in Morgan. No true post or PG, and we're again overcommitted. I suspect at a minimum this class will include a PG and post if CTC gets what he wants, so that means even more turnover, and we'll be young again. Seeing a pattern?
 
So are you saying


as long as CTC puts his players in the NBA it does not matter what his record is so you won't be saying he needs to fired if we don't make the tournament.
 
this is a little confusing since I thought Purdue

quit recruiting him some time ago? this posted 21 hours ago



21h21 hours ago

I appreciate all the schools that recruited me my top 5 schools are : California -Berkeley
Creighton
Indiana
Pittsburg
Purdue
 
that's funny; generally you guys wait til after a recruit

eliminates PU before you tell us CP stopped recruiting him. Interesting new twist!

I actually enjoy your posts, and don't think you've done this, but it is a funny quirk among some of your Boiler Brethren.
 
no, and I'm not limiting it to the NBA


a college coach teaches. Winning is both a product and part of the learning process.

How much a coach wins is a result primarily but not entirely of how well he teaches.

Did not Knight preach, "play well and the winning will come"?
 
Re: It is the way CTC recruits: do YOUR research. He prefers to play 1 post

Considering he wanted to have Hollowell handle the ball and it seems that Hoetzel can handle the ball well. Maybe he likes the point forward as a position and will we see that experiment again. Not endorsing it but would anything be surprising these days.
 
Do people actually believe this stuff......

Really.

There is no chance that this happened, none.

Now there is a scholly player that might go on to be a WO, but it's not either of those mentioned.

There is also one player exploring his options for the NBA, but if history is any indicator, at least one player will be nudged out.

It's the CTC way.
 
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