You don't even know who you're arguing with yet you think you know what they said.
Clown
Indy Star - Mike Woodson Uses Bench Like an NBA coach - IU's 2nd Unit Key to Big 10 Title Hopes
- Thread starter rikki-tikka-tava
- Start date
Clown
" 7th most utilized"? Get over it. That's like saying the Party of Divine Flatulence representing 1.02% of the national electorate is somehow relevant in federal elections. Enough to cite the poor +/- of that particular line-up - trumpeting it's role in just over 1% of possessions only shows how trivial it was in the larger context of games.
With your logic, the only lineup that matters is the starting lineup. The all sub lineup was 2% of possessions. The 2nd most used lineup was 4%. The starting lineup was 33% of possessions.
The subs lost us many games. @ Iowa is a great example. This lineup came in at the 12:08 mark of the first half after IU had just gone up 23-16. At 10:05 IU finally called a timeout to get this lineup out of the game trailing 26-23. 10-0 run in 2 minutes.
Nope. Just saying that the small percentage of those possessions is close to negligible in the larger context of Games. Not irrelevant mind you, just not in and of itself deterministic or nearly as relevant as other issues like TO's, defensive breakdowns, poor shooting/shot selection/ball movement, etc.
You simply can’t argue with how poor Durr was. He was horrendous. Having him out there at all is a horrible move. Having him out there with 4 other guys who can’t score is borderline a crime.
Why were we a bad team last year? It was either talent, coaching, or both.
Just because something is the 7th most frequent thing doesnt mean it happens often. Antiques Roadshow might by my 7th most watched TV show, but that doesn't mean I watch it every week.
We weren't a bad team last year. We were an average team for the big ten, and probably in about the 85th percentile for the division we played in.
Do you see me arguing about that Durr wasn't poor/horrendous? You do not, and if you care to check my history you'll find at least a couple of posts that basically say the same thing. Couldn't jump, shuffled his feet and apart from having a big body not much of a defender/offensive threat.
As I said, could well be that while those five could hold their own in practice against the Starters, it just didn't translate into games against unfamiliar opponents. Have no idea, Woodson doubtless does - not my place as yet to second-guess and judge him on what he's trying to do, and especially not on the basis of his and the Players' first Season togther. I imagine that the learning curve was pretty steep for everyone last year and also as I said, don't expect last year to have too much in common with this year.
We were a bad team. Below .500 in the Big Ten (6th year in a row), and we finished 9/14. It was pathetic.
Then why was Durr getting any minutes if it was obvious how bad he was? Meanwhile, Geronimo was barely getting PT. We should have used a smaller rotation last year. That’s the entire point of this conversation. Looks like we are in agreement there.
Why are you asking me? You're the one prattling on with possession stats. It's not my fault your cherry picked stats don't support your thesis, and it certainly isn't my job to go find better ones for you.
The 2nd most used lineup was 80 possessions. If 39 possessions is nothing, then neither is 80. That means you think only the starting lineup that had 646 possessions has an impact.
By the way, I just looked up other teams to see when they had all subs in. Keep in mind IU had two such lineups with 39 and 19 possessions respectively.
Highest number of possessions for all bench lineup:
Wisconsin: 4
Illinois: 5
Purdue: 6
Michigan: 7
Kansas: 6
Duke: 4
North Carolina: 7
Baylor: 7
I wonder why these programs and their coaches don't use all sub lineups as often as we did last year? They even had more talented rosters... makes you wonder...
Oh no! Out first year coach took over a flawed roster and didn't immediately put them into the top of the conference? Oh my gosh!
I am shocked to discover that other teams have scholarships and basketball coaches that are incentivized to win and thereby keep their million dollar a year jobs. I am also shocked to discover there is gambling going on in this establishment.
DWS.
The only thing here that's pathetic is your inability to just say, "ok, my bad, often was the wrong word to use" and move on.
I’m not going to say it, because I’m not wrong. I just showed statistics from some of the top teams in the Big Ten and college basketball overall, and 39 and 19 possessions for all sub lineups are outliers.
That first year coach was responsible for bringing in Durr and not upgrading the roster more through the transfer portal.
If you can find me a top 25 team from last year that played their all sub lineup 19 possessions or more, I’ll stop and say I was wrong. If you can’t find that, then you will finally agree that we played an all sub lineup more than the rest of our peers.
Neither 80, nor 39, are nothing. 0 is nothing. This is like literal kindergarten shit.
Within a universe of 1000-ish occurrences, 80 and 39 are not "often." That's all I said.
Wonder about whatever you want. I don't care what you spend your time wondering about. Most teams don't go 10 deep, either in college or the pros. Woodson did, sparingly. OMG.
Durr shutting down Edey and RP hitting shots was the reason we beat Purdue. TJD hardly played and Race didn’t play well. Subs don’t play much then we don’t win.
He went there on average more than 6X more than any other coach did in last year’s top 25. I’m not sure how you don’t see that as frequently. It should NEVER happen outside of garbage time (like the other teams) the fact that he did it pretty much every game is simply wrong. It’s poor coaching, and I hope he learned his lesson. No excuse for it this year considering we are starting the only two viable PG options on the team. If Woodson goes to 5 subs this year outside of foul trouble, it’s criminal.
Are you kidding? You don’t think TJD, Race, and Geronimo could have handled 80 mpg combined at the 4/5? Race slides to the 5 when TJD is out. Geronimo plays the 4. Pretty damn simple. It’s crazy that other coaches have no trouble playing 8 or 9 guys.
That’s 1 game. Would you say that one game was indicative of how the season played out for RP and Durr? Or was it more of an outlier?
He slid to the 5 very little. I’m not sure you watched race and trace asking to be subbed. They got tired obviously. Often times both out together but you know more than woody obviously. I’m anxiously waiting for your time on the bench. JK. I mean I get what you are saying but each game and personnel require different things. It’s not always black and white. Especially with a flawed roster.
You liked him as a person? That’s fine.
He was a horrible basketball player. There’s no stat or eye test that says differently. It’s really not his fault either. If a place like IU comes to you and says they want you to be their backup 5, it would be hard to turn that down. He was out of his league in the Big Ten.
They weren’t out together because they were tired. Again, 95% of college basketball plays less than 10 guys.
Our personnel last year required us to go 8 deep, and we consistently went 10. When one of the 10 was out we still played 10 by playing Leal or Lander. It’s something Woodson has to learn. This is not the NBA.
That's because you don't understand the meaning of the words you use, but you're also too stubborn to admit you typed the wrong thing. So far, you've misused bad, nothing, crime, often, and pathetic, among others. When this is pointed out, you just ignore it and prattle on.
Turning the ball over .6 times per game is 6X more than turning it over .1 times per game. Still, neither suggests that a turnover happens often, or frequently. The ratio of x to y only explains the relationship of x to y. It doesn't prove that x or y happen frequently or infrequently. That depends on the ratio of x or y to the entire set of possible occurrences.
This has been explained to you repeatedly, by several different posters in several different ways, but you reject logic in favor of exasperation and hyperbole. No one cares about either, especially from you. Go seek attention elsewhere. I'm tired, and there's good TV on.
You should look up the word “subjective” and then look at all those words you just spat out. I did not type the wrong thing. I 100% meant to type that IU used the all sub lineups too often. The stats back that up.
It was idiotic and it cost us games. The article in the Two Starting Fives thread literally talks about how poorly it worked out for us last year. Hopefully Woodson learned his lesson.
That’s one game. We don’t beat Purdue without RP either, and it didn’t make up for every other game where he played like a low major guard.
You’re an idiot. I never said any shit about being KH neighbor. Your memory is as good as your understanding of basketball and your fandom. (FYI - Terrible).
You failed and have been owned son. Take the L and scamper away
B1G dump is a moron. I abused him by calling horseshit and he is flailing in an attempt to avoid the L.
If you had any sort of reading capability, you would already know I confused you with a different poster with a similar name.
You didn’t “own me” on anything. I’ve provided stats to backup my views while you and the rest of the Woodson fan boys have provided nothing.
So stfu and provide actual content.
Are you now attempting to shift your argument for more solid ground?
You have gotten your arse kicked all over this thread. Anybody can simply follow the blood trail leading to your dead corpse. It’s Ok. Maybe next time you will be more prepared.
Nope, I’ve been saying the same thing this whole time. Not shocked you couldn’t understand. I mean in your original post you said 39 possessions was 4/10ths of 1% of the total possessions used. Simp can’t do simple math.
Want to tell us how 39 possessions is 4/10ths of 1% of total possessions? Such a simp.
Haha. You didn’t share your baseline stat for total possession count, so adding them up and making some guesstimates for the missing numbers served a fine enough number. Doesn’t change the point at all.
Such a dumb simp. Can’t even do math.
Now go to bed. You’ve got to be up early to make those McGriddles.
