Indiana wins Big Ten without 3 point shooters?

[TR32]

The season is near. Time to get down to business.

The past 4 times (and probably many more than that) that IU won the Big Ten, they had 3-5 players shooting at a better 3pt percentage than Johnson and Kopp.

Without looking any further than just Indiana, can Indiana win the conference without the shooters? Precedent would say no, they can't. And I can assure you that if you tell me they can then we will start looking at all Big Ten champs and see if such a seemingly unlikely scenario can occur in Bloomington this year.

If we can all agree that we are not going to see Bates, Trayce, Gallo, Geronimo and Race turn into outside snipers... then it comes down to JHS, Johnson and Kopp hitting enough outside to carry the team. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, it seems a championship in Btown would have to be a statistical anomaly.

 

[TR32]

I will add that in the past 3 years, Wisconsin (last year) and Maryland (2020) both achieved a tie for 1st in the conference without 3 point shooters at a high percentage. But it is still uncommon.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I will add that in the past 3 years, Wisconsin (last year) and Maryland (2020) both achieved a tie for 1st in the conference without 3 point shooters at a high percentage. But it is still uncommon.

High percentage maybe. Efficiency is most important. Hitting what’s given. You don’t need a ton of threes. 7-8 average at 35% clip with efficiency on everything else wins a lot of games.

 

[bsmitty08]

The season is near. Time to get down to business.

The past 4 times (and probably many more than that) that IU won the Big Ten, they had 3-5 players shooting at a better 3pt percentage than Johnson and Kopp.

Without looking any further than just Indiana, can Indiana win the conference without the shooters? Precedent would say no, they can't. And I can assure you that if you tell me they can then we will start looking at all Big Ten champs and see if such a seemingly unlikely scenario can occur in Bloomington this year.

If we can all agree that we are not going to see Bates, Trayce, Gallo, Geronimo and Race turn into outside snipers... then it comes down to JHS, Johnson and Kopp hitting enough outside to carry the team. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, it seems a championship in Btown would have to be a statistical anomaly.

We need better shooting to spread the floor on teams but our main issue is just scoring the basketball. We couldn’t score last year.

 

[IUNorth]

High percentage maybe. Efficiency is most important. Hitting what’s given. You don’t need a ton of threes. 7-8 average at 35% clip with efficiency on everything else wins a lot of games.

See Kansas last year for an example of this.

Hitting a bunch of 3's makes everything else easier. But you don't have to be the Warriors, to be successful. As you pointed out, its about overall efficiency in the end.

The best way for me to think about it with regards to IU, and probably least effective way to explain it to others...is it just needs to be "easier" for IU this year to get buckets. That can come from us returning as many experienced and key players as we are. It can come from the influx of talent we've gotten. It can come from the subtraction of a couple inefficient players. It can come from Woodson having a full season and offseason with the core players. Or it could come from new principals, movements, and overall focus being implemented by Woody and the staff.

Kansas didn't bomb a bunch of threes last year. But man, they sure made it look easy on the offensive end most of the year.

 

[Cavanagh]

My guess is that Tamar, Miller and X will all shoot over 100 threes. Tamar-37%, Miller 41%, X 38% from deep. If that happens we are just fine.

 

[kkott]

The season is near. Time to get down to business.

The past 4 times (and probably many more than that) that IU won the Big Ten, they had 3-5 players shooting at a better 3pt percentage than Johnson and Kopp.

Without looking any further than just Indiana, can Indiana win the conference without the shooters? Precedent would say no, they can't. And I can assure you that if you tell me they can then we will start looking at all Big Ten champs and see if such a seemingly unlikely scenario can occur in Bloomington this year.

If we can all agree that we are not going to see Bates, Trayce, Gallo, Geronimo and Race turn into outside snipers... then it comes down to JHS, Johnson and Kopp hitting enough outside to carry the team. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, it seems a championship in Btown would have to be a statistical anomaly.

I'm hoping Bates makes the jump from your non-shooting group to the "shooting" group with Kopp, XJ and JHS, and I think he will. I think last year had to be a bit of an embarassment for him and sounds like he's put in the work this off-season.

 

[Cavanagh]

I'm hoping Bates makes the jump from your non-shooting group to the "shooting" group with Kopp, XJ and JHS, and I think he will. I think last year had to be a bit of an embarassment for him and sounds like he's put in the work this off-season.

Ill gladly bet anyone he shoots over 35% from deep this year.

 

[JIMSHAM]

I will add that in the past 3 years, Wisconsin (last year) and Maryland (2020) both achieved a tie for 1st in the conference without 3 point shooters at a high percentage. But it is still uncommon.

The problem is more than the percentage. It was bad but when you factor in the number of wide-open uncontested threes defenses allowed IU, the bad becomes really bad.

 

[Cavanagh]

The problem is more than the percentage. It was bad but when you factor in the number of wide-open uncontested threes defenses allowed IU, the bad becomes really bad.

IMO it is the 4 spot that needs to be able to knock down threes, JG Race or Malik. If you see one of those guys be able to knock it down consistently I think they see the majority share of the time at the 4 come March.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

My guess is that Tamar, Miller and X will all shoot over 100 threes. Tamar-37%, Miller 41%, X 38% from deep. If that happens we are just fine.

More than fine but race and JG need to hit at the 4 also. Not saying every game but enough to make guys honest. When race hits one it really opens the floor.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

IMO it is the 4 spot that needs to be able to knock down threes, JG Race or Malik. If you see one of those guys be able to knock it down consistently I think they see the majority share of the time at the 4 come March.

Lol. I read this after I posted above. The 4 might be the most important for IU this year.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

See Kansas last year for an example of this.

Hitting a bunch of 3's makes everything else easier. But you don't have to be the Warriors, to be successful. As you pointed out, its about overall efficiency in the end.

The best way for me to think about it with regards to IU, and probably least effective way to explain it to others...is it just needs to be "easier" for IU this year to get buckets. That can come from us returning as many experienced and key players as we are. It can come from the influx of talent we've gotten. It can come from the subtraction of a couple inefficient players. It can come from Woodson having a full season and offseason with the core players. Or it could come from new principals, movements, and overall focus being implemented by Woody and the staff.

Kansas didn't bomb a bunch of threes last year. But man, they sure made it look easy on the offensive end most of the year.

They were as efficient as any team doing many of the things IU does. They were great defensively and efficient at the line and 2’s. They averaged just over 7 made 3s. IU hit just under 6. They had a great mid range game too.

 

[bailey777]

I think we have a ton of talent but I do wonder if lack of three point shooters will hold us back again.

 

[.Gerdis]

Between Rob and Parker we lose around 1/3 of the attempts (Parker led the team in attempts, 135 or 4/game, and percentage at 39.3%). The shots will be there.

 

[bsmitty08]

IMO it is the 4 spot that needs to be able to knock down threes, JG Race or Malik. If you see one of those guys be able to knock it down consistently I think they see the majority share of the time at the 4 come March.

Yes because race and trayce clog the lane when they can’t step out and shoot the ball.

 

[Hatchets7times]

Timely 3's is sometimes the most important thing about 3's
Make two or three in the last 4 minutes..
It usually puts major pressure on your opponent..

 

[ORG]

The season is near. Time to get down to business.

The past 4 times (and probably many more than that) that IU won the Big Ten, they had 3-5 players shooting at a better 3pt percentage than Johnson and Kopp.

Without looking any further than just Indiana, can Indiana win the conference without the shooters? Precedent would say no, they can't. And I can assure you that if you tell me they can then we will start looking at all Big Ten champs and see if such a seemingly unlikely scenario can occur in Bloomington this year.

If we can all agree that we are not going to see Bates, Trayce, Gallo, Geronimo and Race turn into outside snipers... then it comes down to JHS, Johnson and Kopp hitting enough outside to carry the team. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, it seems a championship in Btown would have to be a statistical anomaly.

Time to rip down the anomaly!

 

[larsIU]

My guess is that Tamar, Miller and X will all shoot over 100 threes. Tamar-37%, Miller 41%, X 38% from deep. If that happens we are just fine.

Miller barely shot 100 threes last year. If he's on the floor more this year than last, we're in trouble. And I don't mean that as a negative against Miller. But he might be really good off the bench against 2nd teamers or situational where he can be most effective. I don't think his most effective situation is as a starter.

The only way he shoots 100 threes is as a starter.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Timely 3's is sometimes the most important thing about 3's
Make two or three in the last 4 minutes..
It usually puts major pressure on your opponent..

Timely 3's and not jacked up 3's because the shot clock is winding down.

 

[hoosier48]

The season is near. Time to get down to business.

The past 4 times (and probably many more than that) that IU won the Big Ten, they had 3-5 players shooting at a better 3pt percentage than Johnson and Kopp.

Without looking any further than just Indiana, can Indiana win the conference without the shooters? Precedent would say no, they can't. And I can assure you that if you tell me they can then we will start looking at all Big Ten champs and see if such a seemingly unlikely scenario can occur in Bloomington this year.

If we can all agree that we are not going to see Bates, Trayce, Gallo, Geronimo and Race turn into outside snipers... then it comes down to JHS, Johnson and Kopp hitting enough outside to carry the team. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, it seems a championship in Btown would have to be a statistical anomaly.

I don't agree on ruling out Bates certainly. Remember when Victor couldn't hit a three then a off season and he was a threat. I would imagine 3's and free throws were a focal point coming into the season and we might all be surprised by improved numbers.

 

[kkott]

Miller barely shot 100 threes last year. If he's on the floor more this year than last, we're in trouble. And I don't mean that as a negative against Miller. But he might be really good off the bench against 2nd teamers or situational where he can be most effective. I don't think his most effective situation is as a starter.

The only way he shoots 100 threes is as a starter.

That's if he shoots like last year. He is allowed to improve, and I think he's a better shooter than he showed last year and will end up being our best shooter. He'd be great to have on the floor if he shoots closer to 40% and remains aggressive. And, we've seen that out of him in the past... it was just at Northwestern!

 

[larsIU]

That's if he shoots like last year. He is allowed to improve, and I think he's a better shooter than he showed last year and will end up being our best shooter. He'd be great to have on the floor if he shoots closer to 40% and remains aggressive. And, we've seen that out of him in the past... it was just at Northwestern!

I agree but he's kinda who he is right now. A known quantity. I do agree if he can get his shooting % up over 40% it would really help open up the floor for X, JHS, and Bates, etc.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

I certainly have deference for 3's. But what I'm most optimistic for is a smooth flowing offense can get and confidently take opportunities from 8-16 ft. That's the hole in last seasons results I want to see back filled successfully. Also creates more favorable rebounding opportunities. That was the RMK's philosophy, good shots by a good offensive flow by players in their range.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

My guess is that Tamar, Miller and X will all shoot over 100 threes. Tamar-37%, Miller 41%, X 38% from deep. If that happens we are just fine.

Tamar and Miller start all season?

 

[kkott]

I agree but he's kinda who he is right now. A known quantity. I do agree if he can get his shooting % up over 40% it would really help open up the floor for X, JHS, and Bates, etc.

maybe, maybe not. Covid, change to a new school, coaches and teammates, going to a role player vs a lead player, NIL, being a senior... a lot going on. I really liked what he had to say about realizing he's got 1 extra last year and making the most of it. And I think he recognizes he's never had an opportunity like this to actually be on a really good team. I thought maybe last year he was a little distracted with the vlogs, and SM, but his thoughts in that last (long!) interview to me sounded like somebody who wanted to go out on a high.

 

[T.M.P.]

I agree but he's kinda who he is right now. A known quantity. I do agree if he can get his shooting % up over 40% it would really help open up the floor for X, JHS, and Bates, etc.

His percentage was not the issue, yes it could be better, but he didn't take or make enough to impact games.

 

[larsIU]

His percentage was not the issue, yes it could be better, but he didn't take or make enough to impact games.

He needs to be deadly (or at least the other team needs to think he is) in order for him to open up the floor though right? He already had the highest % of total shots coming from 3 of any regular player besides Parker Stewart and 85% of his makes were assisted. He can't get his own shot so his main threat as an offensive player is hitting 3's. The % matters when that's your MO.

PS was more effective at spreading the floor based on the numbers. Do we want Kopp taking more shots? Becuase for that to happen they're going to have to run offense for him to get the ball on cuts and curls or standing in the corner/wing on the 3pt line off dribble drives (doable).

 

[kkott]

He needs to be deadly (or at least the other team needs to think he is) in order for him to open up the floor though right? He already had the highest % of total shots coming from 3 of any regular player besides Parker Stewart and 85% of his makes were assisted. He can't get his own shot so his main threat as an offensive player is hitting 3's. The % matters when that's your MO.

PS was more effective at spreading the floor based on the numbers. Do we want Kopp taking more shots? Becuase for that to happen they're going to have to run offense for him to get the ball on cuts and curls or standing in the corner/wing on the 3pt line off dribble drives (doable).

But, PS is gone, so that opens up all his shots from last year. Not like we have to really run more stuff for MK, he can just absorb more/most of PS's shots. And, I think people overplay that MK can't get his own shot. I'm not a stats-nik, and not going to look it up, but wasn't he a leading scorer at NW? He seemed more able to me to put the ball on the floor and get by or post up his man than PS was for instance. Maybe not his strength, but he seemed at least capable of that.

 

[.Gerdis]

But, PS is gone, so that opens up all his shots from last year. Not like we have to really run more stuff for MK, he can just absorb more/most of PS's shots. And, I think people overplay that MK can't get his own shot. I'm not a stats-nik, and not going to look it up, but wasn't he a leading scorer at NW? He seemed more able to me to put the ball on the floor and get by or post up his man than PS was for instance. Maybe not his strength, but he seemed at least capable of that.

Watching the start of the IL BTT win he was very active from a rebounding standpoint and he really helped set the pace for the game. I recall being in a chat during the game and jokingly comparing him to Rodman. But, I guess my point is that it seems to be a narrative here that:

1. We have seen his ceiling ***
2. We have competition at his spot from players with enormous ceilings
3. He lacks any athleticism whatsoever

I would challenge all three of those. As for his ceiling (***), yes, looking at his stats at NU IIRC he did have some big numbers there

Miller Kopp - Indiana Hoosiers Forward - ESPN

View the profile of Indiana Hoosiers Forward Miller Kopp on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

edit: maybe #2 I wouldn’t necessarily challenge

 

[larsIU]

But, PS is gone, so that opens up all his shots from last year. Not like we have to really run more stuff for MK, he can just absorb more/most of PS's shots. And, I think people overplay that MK can't get his own shot. I'm not a stats-nik, and not going to look it up, but wasn't he a leading scorer at NW? He seemed more able to me to put the ball on the floor and get by or post up his man than PS was for instance. Maybe not his strength, but he seemed at least capable of that.

MK took the 4th most shots last year. I don't think he should move up that list unless he's getting open 3 looks on the wing or in the corner due to dribble drive penetration sucking his defender into the post. Or when teams double TJD and he's open on his side of the floor, etc.

And the numbers bear out that while he might be able to put the ball on the floor in some instances, that's not how he scores. I think NW ran a lot more offense FOR him. At IU he needs to be a guy who other teams must respect from three range.

 

[kkott]

MK took the 4th most shots last year. I don't think he should move up that list unless he's getting open 3 looks on the wing or in the corner due to dribble drive penetration sucking his defender into the post. Or when teams double TJD and he's open on his side of the floor, etc.

And the numbers bear out that while he might be able to put the ball on the floor in some instances, that's not how he scores. I think NW ran a lot more offense FOR him. At IU he needs to be a guy who other teams must respect from three range.

well, he probably is likely to move up that list, because PS is gone, and I'm guessing took more shots than MK, so for him not to move up the list, someone has to jump him. Maybe that will be TB, and I think many assume JHS will also, but I have a feeling JHS is going to be more a pass-first (second and third) guy and won't put up a ton of shots. As it stands, MK is likely to start again and we're going to need his shooting, so at least early in the year, I look for him to take more shots than last year, not less. I think he'll inherit the majority of PS's shots although XJ will also probably get a few. And, I contend that D's already respect his shot. I thought teams largely closed out on PS and MK very hard last year, while pretty much daring everyone else to shoot. I think it's why those guys didn't get as many 3 attempts as many would have liked and their shooting percentage also wasn't as high as many would have liked. They were presured and defended on the perimeter pretty hard, where the rest of our team wasn't. Just my observations.

 

[larsIU]

well, he probably is likely to move up that list, because PS is gone, and I'm guessing took more shots than MK, so for him not to move up the list, someone has to jump him. Maybe that will be TB, and I think many assume JHS will also, but I have a feeling JHS is going to be more a pass-first (second and third) guy and won't put up a ton of shots. As it stands, MK is likely to start again and we're going to need his shooting, so at least early in the year, I look for him to take more shots than last year, not less. I think he'll inherit the majority of PS's shots although XJ will also probably get a few. And, I contend that D's already respect his shot. I thought teams largely closed out on PS and MK very hard last year, while pretty much daring everyone else to shoot. I think it's why those guys didn't get as many 3 attempts as many would have liked and their shooting percentage also wasn't as high as many would have liked. They were presured and defended on the perimeter pretty hard, where the rest of our team wasn't. Just my observations.

I think you're right about early in the year, as Woodson's figuring out the lineup. But, then again, Woodson likes a firm starting lineup (at least he did last year). So MK might be on the bench (which I personally think would benefit him, might be more effective in 2nd team and situational basketball).

Also agree he can't be the ONLY 3pt threat on the court.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

If we have a good three point defense.

 

[TR32]

I don't agree on ruling out Bates certainly. Remember when Victor couldn't hit a three then a off season and he was a threat. I would imagine 3's and free throws were a focal point coming into the season and we might all be surprised by improved numbers.

You make a good point about Oladipo.

But I do think a key cog is Miller Kopp. If he improves by 4% and 1.5 more shots per game it would help a lot. Especially if JHS adds a bit. Xavier Johnson may have a very good year too. He seems pretty locked in with his shooting now.

If they move the ball better than last year they may find a general trend of more 3's launched across the board.

 

[The Vid]

Kopp sure as hell better hit some shots this year