I know a lot of you hate Archie...

[T.M.P.]

sports-reference shows the IU offensive eff. as 102.5 yesterday. Different sites may have different calculations though. Second half defense was putrid though.

MSU had 6 (almost 7) corner 3's yesterday. 5 on the right side. Where we've actually been pretty good this year following the ball and not closing late, there was a hole in our defense and every close out in the corners were late. The wing should have stayed extended on Langford and Brown.

Meh just my dumb opinion ... there's always a counter. I mean it's not like Gabe Brown is know for shooting corner threes by everyone in this league .. *eyeroll* You can't let him catch comfortably in the corners...

I think .. our prep or scouting is lacking. Gabe Brown shoots corner threes.. everyone knows that .. did the players not listen or did the staff not emphasis it enough.

Who knows? Regardless it's the staff's job to make sure the players know it. Maybe after he hits two wide open would be a good time to remind them? And if they didn't listen? Why are they playing?

 

[T.M.P.]

All good points.

Thing that bothers me is lack of discipline to maintaining standard of play. Whether it’s settling for shots or poor defense (Hunter is still try to find his jock after Aaron Henry blew by him), we too easily look distracted and unfocused. We have enough talent to win, but not without giving concentrated effort.

the players (Al, Phin) get down on themselves, lose confidence and initiative when things don't go their way. Durham overplays and rushes things. Phinisee overthinks and then disappears. The dumb shit is all mental .... they're not lazy, or unmotivated, they're scared, afraid of failing and play too tight,

What bothers me is they are upperclassmen. You would expect them to have enough experience to overcome that..

 

[go_iu]

MSU had 6 (almost 7) corner 3's yesterday. 5 on the right side. Where we've actually been pretty good this year following the ball and not closing late, there was a hole in our defense and every close out in the corners were late. The wing should have stayed extended on Langford and Brown.

Meh just my dumb opinion ... there's always a counter. I mean it's not like Gabe Brown is know for shooting corner threes by everyone in this league .. *eyeroll* You can't let him catch comfortably in the corners...

I think .. our prep or scouting is lacking. Gabe Brown shoots corner threes.. everyone knows that .. did the players not listen or did the staff not emphasis it enough.

Who knows? Regardless it's the staff's job to make sure the players know it. Maybe after he hits two wide open would be a good time to remind them? And if they didn't listen? Why are they playing?

I'll bite, with your usual response to everybody as "dumb". It's completely "dumb" why we have to play this shitty D, that we can't even execute well and turns high level recruits to shit. Moreover, not a lot of good players are attracted to this "system". That's why we don't have good players and have to do this "dumb" scheme. That's right, even TC got it right it's Indiana, not Dayton. Recruit, we have almost 0 talent

 

[hgdownunder]

Let's not blame the current shit-show on Crean, well past time for AM to be held to account

why do you think I’m blaming the “current shit-show” on Crean? I just can’t stand to one side with all this revisionist “Crean-was-a-great-recruiter” hogwash.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

MSU had 6 (almost 7) corner 3's yesterday. 5 on the right side . . . our prep or scouting is lacking. Gabe Brown shoots corner threes.. everyone knows that .. did the players not listen or did the staff not emphasis it enough.

Who knows? Regardless it's the staff's job to make sure the players know it. Maybe after he hits two wide open would be a good time to remind them? And if they didn't listen? Why are they playing?

This right here.

Went back and watched from the 19-6 lead on yesterday evening. The one constant denominator in all our poor play is lack of accountability.

Bottom line: it’s on this staff. You’re getting paid $3.5 mil to ENSURE guys know what they’re supposed to be doing and where they’re supposed to be at. We’re not the most talented team, but we’ve got enough talent to be successful.

But we are so lacking in the little things - focus, accountability - that are the hallmarks of good programs. That, as much as anything else, is the most disappointing thing about all this.

 

[Poprudy]

Should we give him 16 or 25 years like PU?

As you can see where that trend has led Purdue. You just keep getting new coaches that end up getting the same result. I'll take what CMP has built and keeps building.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

As you can see where that trend has led Purdue. You just keep getting new coaches that end up getting the same result. I'll take what CMP has built and keeps building.

Let me know when Matt Painter has accomplished what Mike Davis and Tom Crean have accomplished: I'm guessing we will be waiting forever. Painter would have been fired at IU. If Painter was anything great, we would have seen it over a decade ago.

 

[Birnk403]

Let me know when Matt Painter has accomplished what Mike Davis and Tom Crean have accomplished: I'm guessing we will be waiting forever. Painter would have been fired at IU. If Painter was anything great, we would have seen it over a decade ago.

This is stupid each and every time you post it (or some version of it). It emphasizes not only your lack of basketball knowledge but also your understanding of IU hoops. Why do you continue your quest for self-destruction?

 

[.Gerdis]

Let me know when Matt Painter has accomplished what Mike Davis and Tom Crean have accomplished: I'm guessing we will be waiting forever. Painter would have been fired at IU. If Painter was anything great, we would have seen it over a decade ago.

Refresh my memory: what did Crean accomplish? Unless you aren’t talking about IU.

You seem to have this magical line drawn where a final four is excellence and anything short is crap.

Painters been to 3 consecutive sweet 16s including an elite eight. I’d be careful about continuing to live and die with this final four argument. What if he gets there and IU has seen their last one?

 

[goody1986]

...but, seriously, what is the guy supposed to do with this lineup? Seriously? I hold him accountable for not recruiting better players (like I have every coach since Coach Knight...and even including Coach Knight the last few years of his career), but, really, truly, seriously....WTF would any coach do with this sad-a$$ roster?

I'll ask it a different way. In your opinion, how many games this season would this team win with, say, John Wooden coaching it?

I'm not sure that a lot of people *hate* Archie. People hated Tom Crean, but I don't think people generally hate Archie. He's kind of a benign personality. He doesn't seem to have a clear identity as a coach, and neither does the team. Everybody wants/ed him to win, his hire was pretty universally praised by the media, and he's just not meeting expectations. People hate the results, which is fair. It's his job to recruit, coach, and put together a team that can win. He just simply hasn't done that. If this roster can't win, that's his fault.

How long do you give a coach? 4 years seems to be the minimum to me. He's had that. But it doesn't feel like the program is moving in any positive direction. Does he get another year? Another two? It really depends on who is available - is anyone available that you really, truly believe can get the team back to competing for big ten and national championships. That's a tall order and a big, expensive risk.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Refresh my memory: what did Crean accomplish? Unless you aren’t talking about IU.

You seem to have this magical line drawn where a final four is excellence and anything short is crap.

Painters been to 3 consecutive sweet 16s including an elite eight. I’d be careful about continuing to live and die with this final four argument. What if he gets there and IU has seen their last one?

If IU is good with Painter results, then they should have kept Crean. Crean has actually been to a final four, recruited a hell of a lot better, and put players of substance in the NBA. Painter's been to one fluke elite 8 in 16 years, who gives a s***?

The goal at IU is to consistently go to final fours and win national championships: this is not the goal at Purdue. This is why they kept Keady for 25 years and named the court after him and have kept Painter for 16 years and counting.

 

[Birnk403]

I'm not sure that a lot of people *hate* Archie. People hated Tom Crean, but I don't think people generally hate Archie. He's kind of a benign personality. He doesn't seem to have a clear identity as a coach, and neither does the team. Everybody wants/ed him to win, his hire was pretty universally praised by the media, and he's just not meeting expectations. People hate the results, which is fair. It's his job to recruit, coach, and put together a team that can win. He just simply hasn't done that. If this roster can't win, that's his fault.

How long do you give a coach? 4 years seems to be the minimum to me. He's had that. But it doesn't feel like the program is moving in any positive direction. Does he get another year? Another two? It really depends on who is available - is anyone available that you really, truly believe can get the team back to competing for big ten and national championships. That's a tall order and a big, expensive risk.

You’ve summed it up nicely. I think the “who do you get” aspect of this is going to be problematic. As alums and fans, I think we tend to overrate the IU job, just as fans do of any school (both Michigan and Ohio State had trouble in the not doing distant past filling their football openings). Not saying you don’t move on from Miller, but the line of able replacements won’t be around the block. It may not even be out the door or enough to fill all of the chairs in the lobby.

 

[Birnk403]

If IU is good with Painter results, then they should have kept Crean. Crean has actually been to a final four, recruited a hell of a lot better, and put players of substance in the NBA. Painter's been to one fluke elite 8 in 16 years, who gives a s***?

The goal at IU is to consistently go to final fours and win national championships: this is not the goal at Purdue. This is why they kept Keady for 25 years and named the court after him and have kept Painter for 16 years and counting.

More stupid from you.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Which, sadly, is what I think Archie has done/is trying to continue to do.

I just, for the life of me, cannot understand why we cannot get good players to come to Bloomington. It's not an Archie thing. It has been going on for too many decades to be just an Archie thing

Crean had loads of talent from 2012-2016, but then would lose the talent in one year and have to rebuild. He didn’t win those 2 B1G championships without the talent to do it. Sampson also had a lot of talent coming in until he blew it. Talent can still be brought in with the right coach.

 

[JB_Nomee]

As you can see where that trend has led Purdue. You just keep getting new coaches that end up getting the same result. I'll take what CMP has built and keeps building.

Painter has been there for 16 years. 3 Big Ten Titles, 5 Sweet 16’s, 1 Elite 8. In 9 years Crean had 2 big tens, 3 sweet 16’s no elite 8’s. Let’s not pretend Painter is some coaching guru. He’s doing an average job for an average program that’s happy to have that it’s as simple as that.

 

[Poprudy]

Let me know when Matt Painter has accomplished what Mike Davis and Tom Crean have accomplished: I'm guessing we will be waiting forever. Painter would have been fired at IU. If Painter was anything great, we would have seen it over a decade ago.

Let me know when Crean accomplished more at IU???🤣🤣

 

[Coach Geez]

Painter has been there for 16 years. 3 Big Ten Titles, 5 Sweet 16’s, 1 Elite 8. In 9 years Crean had 2 big tens, 3 sweet 16’s no elite 8’s. Let’s not pretend Painter is some coaching guru. He’s doing an average job for an average program that’s happy to have that it’s as simple as that.

Take into consideration Crean gets a universal pass in years 1 and 2 given he only inherited 2 walk-on players, and his 7 year tenure is on par with any of Painter's best 7 year stretch. And Crean was probably held onto for a year or two too long.

 

[Poprudy]

Painter has been there for 16 years. 3 Big Ten Titles, 5 Sweet 16’s, 1 Elite 8. In 9 years Crean had 2 big tens, 3 sweet 16’s no elite 8’s. Let’s not pretend Painter is some coaching guru. He’s doing an average job for an average program that’s happy to have that it’s as simple as that.

That is more than the last 2 coaches and 16 years at your school. So, let me know how this makes your school more accomplished the last 16 years 🤔

 

[JB_Nomee]

That is more than the last 2 coaches and 16 years at your school. So, let me know how this makes your school more accomplished the last 16 years 🤔

Good to know where your head is at. Always worried about IU. I would hope the great Matt Painter would be better than the trash that is the IU program right now.

 

[Birnk403]

Take into consideration Crean gets a universal pass in years 1 and 2 given he only inherited 2 walk-on players, and his 7 year tenure is on par with any of Painter's best 7 year stretch. And Crean was probably held onto for a year or two too long.

Crean won the Big 10 a year before he was pushed out. There were many reasons he never should’ve had the job, but no one was going to fire him right after winning a conference regular season championship.

 

[Coach Geez]

Crean won the Big 10 a year before he was pushed out. There were many reasons he never should’ve had the job, but no one was going to fire him right after winning a conference regular season championship.

Should have been fired the year they failed to make the tournament after Zeller and Oladipo left. Or the following year where they limped in as a 10 seed and lost in the first round to Wichita State. Take your pick.

 

[choptalk]

Should we give him 16 or 25 years like PU?

To do what? Purdue has been to the SS the last 3 years.

 

[Birnk403]

Should have been fired the year they failed to make the tournament after Zeller and Oladipo left. Or the following year where they limped in as a 10 seed and lost in the first round to Wichita State. Take your pick.

Don’t disagree with that. But he never should’ve been hired and never, ever should’ve been extended. Glass bought a polished up used car that didn’t have an engine.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

To equate Painter's results at Purdue to his possible results at IU are asinine. With clowns like Crean and Miller at the helm IU still consistently out-recruits Purdue (and most of the B1G).

The "average" coach and program up north has been more successful than IU since he showed up. To think he wouldn't be even more successful at our program with its obvious advantages over Purdue is naive.

 

[IUINSB]

The goal at IU is to consistently go to final fours and win national championships: this is not the goal at Purdue. This is why they kept Keady for 25 years and named the court after him and have kept Painter for 16 years and counting.

When did we get a new administration?

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I just, for the life of me, cannot understand why we cannot get good players to come to Bloomington. It's not an Archie thing. It has been going on for too many decades to be just an Archie thing

Did you forget about DJ White? Bracey Wright? Marco Killingsworth? AJ Ratliff? Marshall Strickland? All top 100 RSCI players Mike Davis brought in.

Eric Gordon? Did you forget him?

What about the 2013-14 team? How many burger boys and 5 star / 4 star recruits defines "good players"?

Coaching is the issue, not talent. As I said in another post, we're not the most talented team. But we DO have enough players to compete - if utilized properly. They aren't.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Let me know when Crean accomplished more at IU???🤣🤣

We didn't keep him around for 16 or 25 years like PU due to failure to meet expectations. Crean and Mike Davis have a better resume that Painter and Keady: do you understand how pathetic is?

When has Painter been ranked #1 or put 2 players in the top 4 of the Draft?

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

To equate Painter's results at Purdue to his possible results at IU are asinine. With clowns like Crean and Miller at the helm IU still consistently out-recruits Purdue (and most of the B1G).

The "average" coach and program up north has been more successful than IU since he showed up. To think he wouldn't be even more successful at our program with its obvious advantages over Purdue is naive.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Archie?

And, no: the only difference between Crean and Painter is Crean has a better resume. The expectations PU has for a Power 5 program are pretty sorry.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

To do what? Purdue has been to the SS the last 3 years.

Who gives a flying F? Last year, PU doesn't even make the Tourney if they have it.

 

[ndbuddy]

Sigh. Again. Read the freaking post. He is. He should be held accountable for it. That's not the point of the post

WHAT ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO SAY ?

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Couldn't you say the same thing about Archie?

And, no: the only difference between Crean and Painter is Crean has a better resume. The expectations PU has for a Power 5 program are pretty sorry.

I'm not arguing that we have higher standards here, of course we do (at least the fans, current administration...maybe not). And I would strongly disagree on the resume of Crean and Painter. Crean has a worse record overall, worse NCAAT record, fewer conference titles. The only difference his Crean had Dwyane Wade one year.

And I don't know what you mean by couldn't I say the same thing about Archie? Is he better here than at Purdue? Who knows? He could probably run Purdue's program more like Dayton's, I guess. Lower expectations/profile might benefit him. But he would still have to play B1G teams that have him figured out here.

 

[Coach Geez]

I'm not arguing that we have higher standards here, of course we do (at least the fans, current administration...maybe not). And I would strongly disagree on the resume of Crean and Painter. Crean has a worse record overall, worse NCAAT record, fewer conference titles. The only difference his Crean had Dwyane Wade one year.

And I don't know what you mean by couldn't I say the same thing about Archie? Is he better here than at Purdue? Who knows? He could probably run Purdue's program more like Dayton's, I guess. Lower expectations/profile might benefit him. But he would still have to play B1G teams that have him figured out here.

Excusing Crean's first two years, he had a 7 year run where he won the B10 outright (twice) and went to 3 Sweet 16's. Wouldn't say it's anything better than what Painter has done at Purdue, but pick any 7 year stretch for Painter at Purdue and its on par. Point is, Painter is now coaching in his 16th year while Crean is now in his third year at a different school. There's nothing Crean didn't accomplish at IU that Painter did in 9 years. Painter making the Elite 8 in his 14th season is really irrelevant because no coach at IU is going to sniff 14 years without eclipsing the S16.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Excusing Crean's first two years, he had a 7 year run where he won the B10 outright (twice) and went to 3 Sweet 16's. Wouldn't say it's anything better than what Painter has done at Purdue, but pick any 7 year stretch for Painter at Purdue and its on par. Point is, Painter is now coaching in his 16th year while Crean is now in his third year at a different school. There's nothing Crean didn't accomplish at IU that Painter did in 9 years. Painter making the Elite 8 in his 14th season is really irrelevant because no coach at IU is going to sniff 14 years without eclipsing the S16.

Again, if Painter was at IU and not Purdue, his results would be different. Even average coaches like Crean could win at IU, Painter is better than an average coach. He is hamstrung by being the Purdue coach.

 

[Birnk403]

Excusing Crean's first two years, he had a 7 year run where he won the B10 outright (twice) and went to 3 Sweet 16's. Wouldn't say it's anything better than what Painter has done at Purdue, but pick any 7 year stretch for Painter at Purdue and its on par. Point is, Painter is now coaching in his 16th year while Crean is now in his third year at a different school. There's nothing Crean didn't accomplish at IU that Painter did in 9 years. Painter making the Elite 8 in his 14th season is really irrelevant because no coach at IU is going to sniff 14 years without eclipsing the S16.

But Painter has done as much or more with less, which is and always has been the point. The opportunity to build and sustain a program at IU have always been far greater than at Purdue, so the results should be better. They haven’t been, and now they’re much worse. When I and others talk about lowered expectations, the example you’ve provided here fits it perfectly.

 

[Coach Geez]

Again, if Painter was at IU and not Purdue, his results would be different. Even average coaches like Crean could win at IU, Painter is better than an average coach. He is hamstrung by being the Purdue coach.

He's hamstrung at Purdue because he isn't pressed to win and win big every year. He's a good coach at place who understands his limitations. He's not going anywhere and because he's under no pressure to win big, he has the luxury to recruit system guys and let them develop for 3-4 years. What big time college basketball program would continue to employ a guy who fleeced the athletic department into a raise only to finish 16-18 in year 8 and then 15-17 in year 9 (with a dead last place finish in the B10)?And then in years 10 and 11 Painter-coached teams choked massively in the first round of the tournament and they EXTENDED him again. From years 8 to 11, Painter had 2 losing seasons (with a last place B10 finish) and zero tournament wins. They were .500 last year in year 15. What college basketball program that gives a damn would keep a coach employed for that long?

 

[Sir_Saucy]

He's hamstrung at Purdue because he isn't pressed to win and win big every year. He's a good coach at place who understands his limitations. He's not going anywhere and because he's under no pressure to win big, he has the luxury to recruit system guys and let them develop for 3-4 years. What big time college basketball program would continue to employ a guy who fleeced the athletic department into a raise only to finish 16-18 in year 8 and then 15-17 in year 9 (with a dead last place finish in year 9)?And then in years 10 and 11 Painter-coached teams choked massively in the first round of the tournament and they EXTENDED him again. From years 8 to 11, Painter had 2 losing seasons (with a last place B10 finish) and zero tournament wins. They were .500 last year in year 15. What college basketball program that gives a damn would keep a coach employed for that long?

What does that have to do with my argument? And in year 10, wasn't Purdue a 9 seed? How does a 9 seed choke massively? You don't have great reading comprehension do you?

 

[Birnk403]

He's hamstrung at Purdue because he isn't pressed to win and win big every year. He's a good coach at place who understands his limitations. He's not going anywhere and because he's under no pressure to win big, he has the luxury to recruit system guys and let them develop for 3-4 years. What big time college basketball program would continue to employ a guy who fleeced the athletic department into a raise only to finish 16-18 in year 8 and then 15-17 in year 9 (with a dead last place finish in year 9)?And then in years 10 and 11 Painter-coached teams choked massively in the first round of the tournament and they EXTENDED him again. From years 8 to 11, Painter had 2 losing seasons (with a last place B10 finish) and zero tournament wins. They were .500 last year in year 15. What college basketball program that gives a damn would keep a coach employed for that long?

This post couldn’t be more inaccurate.

 

[Birnk403]

What does that have to do with my argument? And in year 10, wasn't Purdue a 9 seed? How does a 9 seed choke massively? You don't have great reading comprehension do you?

He’s totally lost. I know he claimed some knowledge of IU basketball but he really is lacking.

 

[Coach Geez]

What does that have to do with my argument? And in year 10, wasn't Purdue a 9 seed? How does a 9 seed choke massively? You don't have great reading comprehension do you?

Purdue blew a 7 point lead with less than a minute left against Cincinnati (year 10) and then the following year blew a 13 point lead with 3 minutes left to 12 seed UALR. If that's not choking massively, then I don't know what is. My reading comprehension is fine.

 

[Coach Geez]

This post couldn’t be more inaccurate.

What's inaccurate? That in years 8-11 Painter had two losing records and zero tournament wins or that Painter isn't under any pressure to win because Purdue extended a guy who in years 8-11 had two losing records and zero tournament wins? Pick your poison.