I hope #1 was happy with his little dance....

[bang63]

Notable no, but I did play all through high school and had several friends play low level in college, so I do understand that a two second celebration after making a great play is pure emotion and nothing else, clearly you can't say the same.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?
By the way , the penalty wasn't for celebrating it was for taunting and the players action clearly and specifically fits the definition of taunting.
Here'spart of the taunting rule
"crossing one’s arms in front of the chest while standing over a prone player"
Obviously #1's act was taunting and could or should have drawn a penalty. If you or others have examples of officials not flagging this specific taunting I'd be interested in seeing it. The tired excuse that others do it so why should I be penalized is childish. As long as there is a rule whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. If you break the rule and get busted it's on you.

 

[Champs1976]

A player must not belittle his opponent by displaying feelings of braggadocio in front of his face or become subject to an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. The Woken have spoken. It's the pussification of college football. Real men with balls of leather play rugby.

Go watch some YouTube of NFL games back in the day. There were way fewer rules relative to issues like clotheslining, crack back blocks etc. So yes, football has been made a lesser violent sport than then. But one thing you never, ever saw back then was anything like taunting, showboating, celebrating great plays etc. So it wasn't a pussy sport back then relatively speaking, by any means. But no one did the stuff we see routinely today. Why not? Because they would have been, within the rules, nearly killed on the next play if they did stuff like that. Plus, the kind of actions we see performed today would have been viewed as infantile, which they still are today. It's the stuff you see in pickup games, by kids or adults who still like to act as kids and are not serious. And that, fundamentally is the problem with all of this "emotion" you like. If it gets in the way of performance (which in this case was of his team's ability to win the game), it ceases to be part of the objective of trying to be the best they can be.

 

[Champs1976]

You're an absolute joke if you defend the refs when they make garbage calls. I said the call that UM had against them for unsportsmanlike conduct last week was BS, and I'm saying that taunting call was BS. Big Ten refs are going to insert themselves into games and that's simply not something you can fight, sometimes you get the calls and sometimes you don't. If you think it's reasonable for a coach to tell his guys they can't celebrate after making a good play, because there's a 1% chance the ref will think its egregious and flag you for it, then you've clearly never played or coached football at any level. It shows how out of touch you are with the emotions that take place on a football field and that your opinion is utter nonsense.

If that kind of play helps your team lose, then being critical of it is not "nonsense." Teams and players can be plenty emotional and it is helpful, if channeled. If it results in your team being penalized then it is harmful and of no value. This isn't a hard concept. Whether you think the cal was a garbage call is irrelevant, the ref called it because it COULD be called. It's up to the player to avoid the possibility of the ref making the call.

 

[jsenleo]

The only players who showoff are the one's who have done something worthy of showing off. In football, it's exemplary play. If you don't like it, do your own play worthy of showing off to irritate them back, otherwise, take it like a man and respect your better opponent. Don't harm them back physically thinking you've been disrespected, that's the cowardly way of gang members. Isn't it the rugby players who traditionally share a beer with their opponents after match as a show of mutual respect? Isn't rugby like hockey, where a player's missing teeth are held in high esteem as a testament of courageous battle, not because some overly sensitive hot-head busted him in the chops while feeling disrespected?

Yes, mutual respect was part of the game.... and it's just as likely you'll get your ass beat by your own teammates if you did something like Matthews did. Showing off was not excepted by anyone.

I was thrown out of a game one time for throwing a punch at a guy. He ducked and I whiffed it.... I was still thrown out!... There was no warning... If you're a showoff doing something similar to what Matthews did toward an opponent.... or fight, you were done and in rugby if you're ejected your team plays down one man, they can't make substitutions. My teammates weren't happy about that at all.... I lost my head, payed for it immediately and sat on the sidelines the rest of the day. And I felt terrible for my team who now had to play the rest of the match handicapped down one player.

Ended up me and the guy I threw the punch at had a few beers and some laughs at the after-game kegger, and then left with other players from both teams to the Bulldog Lounge... I never got myself ejected again.

Doing something "worthy" of showing off?... That sounds like child's reasoning..... Sorry, but only chumps do the showoff crap like Matthews....

 

[sparkeyreturns]

Go watch some YouTube of NFL games back in the day. There were way fewer rules relative to issues like clotheslining, crack back blocks etc. So yes, football has been made a lesser violent sport than then. But one thing you never, ever saw back then was anything like taunting, showboating, celebrating great plays etc. So it wasn't a pussy sport back then relatively speaking, by any means. But no one did the stuff we see routinely today. Why not? Because they would have been, within the rules, nearly killed on the next play if they did stuff like that. Plus, the kind of actions we see performed today would have been viewed as infantile, which they still are today. It's the stuff you see in pickup games, by kids or adults who still like to act as kids and are not serious. And that, fundamentally is the problem with all of this "emotion" you like. If it gets in the way of performance (which in this case was of his team's ability to win the game), it ceases to be part of the objective of trying to be the best they can be.

Taunting/celebrating happened all the time back in the day. How far back are you going? 1940's?

 

[jlasson]

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?
By the way , the penalty wasn't for celebrating it was for taunting and the players action clearly and specifically fits the definition of taunting.
Here'spart of the taunting rule
"crossing one’s arms in front of the chest while standing over a prone player"
Obviously #1's act was taunting and could or should have drawn a penalty. If you or others have examples of officials not flagging this specific taunting I'd be interested in seeing it. The tired excuse that others do it so why should I be penalized is childish. As long as there is a rule whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. If you break the rule and get busted it's on you.

So what your saying is that was an incorrect call , the definition of a prone player, or a player in a prone position is someone lying face down, in no way was the UM player lying face down, in fact he wasn't even fully on the ground when monster crossed his arms, thank you for proving my point that by the letter of the law, he was not actually breaking the rules.

Also even if it was the correct call which is at best, debatable, by your logic a cop can pull someone over when they're going 1 mph over the speed limit and say "you broke the law, Idc if literally everyone else on the road is breaking the law too, I pulled you over, so your getting a ticket". Yes a cop has every right to do that, but they don't because they're sane and don't have an interest in giving out a ticket every time they're on the road. Refs "miss" minor holding calls all the time, not because they actually didn't see the holding take place, but because they didn't think it was egregious enough to warrant a 10 yard penalty, so don't act like refs aren't subjective in the way they call games, they let real penalties go all the time.

It's just sad this particular boomer with a stick up his *** wanted to teach the younger generation about respect instead of calling the game like a normal human. Idc if some oversensitive ref wants to take the game into his own hands by stretching the rules because he's offended by a celebration, I'd back my player and I'm glad CTA did.

 

[Champs1976]

Taunting/celebrating happened all the time back in the day. How far back are you going? 1940's?

No, it didn't. Not in the 1960's or 1970's. The guy doing it would get laid out at some point. Not controlling emotions and putting your team in a bad place is selfish and childish. Little kids can't control their emotions. If you think this is good for a team that really isn't good enough to win without playing smart football or a good thing to do when your team is losing thern you're not looking at it correctly. Sure, why not have players "celebrate" after every tackle? wouldn't that be inherently pretty stupid? No doubt you're of the "participation trophy" gen if you were ever the member of a well coached team, which I doubt.

 

[hoosier roadtrips]

Taunting/celebrating happened all the time back in the day. How far back are you going? 1940's?

I was watching a highlight of games in the 1950s and was amazed that one ball carrier leaped into the air with his spikes going toward the defender. It was like Ty Cobb going after a fielder.

 

[abraxis]

Go watch some YouTube of NFL games back in the day. There were way fewer rules relative to issues like clotheslining, crack back blocks etc. So yes, football has been made a lesser violent sport than then. But one thing you never, ever saw back then was anything like taunting, showboating, celebrating great plays etc. So it wasn't a pussy sport back then relatively speaking, by any means. But no one did the stuff we see routinely today. Why not? Because they would have been, within the rules, nearly killed on the next play if they did stuff like that. Plus, the kind of actions we see performed today would have been viewed as infantile, which they still are today. It's the stuff you see in pickup games, by kids or adults who still like to act as kids and are not serious. And that, fundamentally is the problem with all of this "emotion" you like. If it gets in the way of performance (which in this case was of his team's ability to win the game), it ceases to be part of the objective of trying to be the best they can be.

All one has to do is look at the uniforms they wore, including the "protective" headgear, to know that back in the early days of the NFL pussy's need not apply.

What happened with post TD end zone celebrations is that players took it to the extreme, the whole team sometimes joining in. It became more of a celebration performance of oneupmanship, displayed too long. If one guy wants to do his patented backflip, okay, but that's it. The stunts garner publicity and were entertaining for the TV viewer who could get a closer view. I can see where the Commissioner had to bring the gauntlet down in an all or none ruling.

Kids (of ALL ages) do it only because its what they've seen done on TV. They don't do it because of some arrested mental development along the way, they do it wanting to emulate the heroes, their football gods of today. Everyone worships a god in one form or another, wanting to be what god is. The evolution of society is a funny thing, always ongoing, forever changing with the progression of time.

 

[abraxis]

Yes, mutual respect was part of the game.... and it's just as likely you'll get your ass beat by your own teammates if you did something like Matthews did. Showing off was not excepted by anyone.

I was thrown out of a game one time for throwing a punch at a guy. He ducked and I whiffed it.... I was still thrown out!... There was no warning... If you're a showoff doing something similar to what Matthews did toward an opponent.... or fight, you were done and in rugby if you're ejected your team plays down one man, they can't make substitutions. My teammates weren't happy about that at all.... I lost my head, payed for it immediately and sat on the sidelines the rest of the day. And I felt terrible for my team who now had to play the rest of the match handicapped down one player.

Ended up me and the guy I threw the punch at had a few beers and some laughs at the after-game kegger, and then left with other players from both teams to the Bulldog Lounge... I never got myself ejected again.

Doing something "worthy" of showing off?... That sounds like child's reasoning..... Sorry, but only chumps do the showoff crap like Matthews....

I still think you're being a little hard on him. Even his coach thought the call was uncalled for in that situation.

I used to watch the Indy Reds play, probably back in the mid 70's. They would have matches near Lake Sullivan, adjacent to the Major Taylor Velodrome in Indy. I also used to notice the IU Rugby Club play while I was in school. Something about the game intrigued me, maybe it was the dearth of protective gear worn. When I saw my first "It takes leather balls to play rugby" bumper sticker, I just knew.

 

[jsenleo]

I still think you're being a little hard on him. Even his coach thought the call was uncalled for in that situation.

I used to watch the Indy Reds play, probably back in the mid 70's. They would have matches near Lake Sullivan, adjacent to the Major Taylor Velodrome in Indy. I also used to notice the IU Rugby Club play while I was in school. Something about the game intrigued me, maybe it was the dearth of protective gear worn. When I saw my first "It takes leather balls to play rugby" bumper sticker, I just knew.

Then you watched me play... was with the Indy Reds from 1972-79.
Just about every season we'd play all of the major college club teams... IU, Purdue, ND, OSU, Illinois... and, IU had some pretty decent teams at times..... we also played the rest of the major metro club teams in the midwest and south.

My old VW Beetle had a "Takes Leather Balls to Play Rugby" on the back window.

It's a great game... the rules make much more sense than football... no need for "interpretation" all the time. The best rule is the Advantage..... they ingnore infractions if it does not give an advantage to the team making the infraction.... football could really use a variation of the advantage rule.... "holding", in some cases, that may have happened on the other side of the field, totally out of the play, is a perfect example.

I'm surprised the CTA thinks it was uncalled for, because if he had looked at the replay before talking to the press he would have clearly seen that it was a text-book penalty performed exactly as the rule says it's not allowed... As for timing, why would any coach expect a ref who's doing his job the right way even care about that. I wouldn't if I was that ref.

Okay, I might be a little harsh but to me winners don't brag, boast or show off.... and they certainly don't taunt the opponent.... After knocking some guy half-loopy I'd rather see them reach down, extend a hand and help the other guy up.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

No, it didn't. Not in the 1960's or 1970's. The guy doing it would get laid out at some point. Not controlling emotions and putting your team in a bad place is selfish and childish. Little kids can't control their emotions. If you think this is good for a team that really isn't good enough to win without playing smart football or a good thing to do when your team is losing thern you're not looking at it correctly. Sure, why not have players "celebrate" after every tackle? wouldn't that be inherently pretty stupid? No doubt you're of the "participation trophy" gen if you were ever the member of a well coached team, which I doubt.

Rambling post. Only thing I said was that taunting/celebrations are not a new thing. You said the 60/70s so that is over 40 years ago so I'll just concede that part as I don't care to argue.

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

The only players who showoff are the one's who have done something worthy of showing off. In football, it's exemplary play. If you don't like it, do your own play worthy of showing off to irritate them back, otherwise, take it like a man and respect your better opponent. Don't harm them back physically thinking you've been disrespected, that's the cowardly way of gang members. Isn't it the rugby players who traditionally share a beer with their opponents after match as a show of mutual respect? Isn't rugby like hockey, where a player's missing teeth are held in high esteem as a testament of courageous battle, not because some overly sensitive hot-head busted him in the chops while feeling disrespected?

In rugby, if someone stood like that over your guy he would get blindside punched in the jaw. Since you can't do that in football they have a rule lol.

 

[76-1]

I spent 7 1/2 years playing for the old Indy Reds rugby team and I can assure you that if someone did what Matthews did, the ref would have tossed him from the game for unsportmanlike conduct. ....Then, the guy it was done to would have gone over and knocked out the showoffs teeth.

I agree that they're pussyfying football at all levels.... but, I hate showoffs and they need to pay the price.

Did you know Boz or was he before your time?

 

[jsenleo]

Boswell, went to Ritter?.. Steve, I think?... He came along right after me.

 

[76-1]

Boswell, went to Ritter?.. Steve, I think?... He came along right after me.

Old drinking buddy... Never knew his real first name... Won a lot of accolades at his position according to his rugby pals...

He asked me to try out a couple of times (based on my HS football past) but I knew I'd never have the time to put towards it to be any good so I deferred...

He practically lived at Conners on the weekends... Boswell is correct, the rest sounds right but I definitely don't know about the Steve part... Good guy... Hope he's doing well...

 

[abraxis]

Then you watched me play... was with the Indy Reds from 1972-79.
Just about every season we'd play all of the major college club teams... IU, Purdue, ND, OSU, Illinois... and, IU had some pretty decent teams at times..... we also played the rest of the major metro club teams in the midwest and south.

I remember a black haired player...ATO fraternity while at IU, I believe, who was quite the personality of the team, or so it seemed. Maybe he only played on the IU club but I wouldn't be surprised if he later played for the Reds. His last name might have started with a "Z". Does this ring a bell? I can still visualize him, although vaguely at this point. He was an attractive player, whatever that means.

Now, when I say I watched the rugby teams, it was but for a handful of times, in passing. I was intrigued by the obscurity of the sport, as much as anything...oh, and the scrum. I always wondered what was going on in there, having never been sure, but miraculously a player always seemed to emerge with the ball. Rugby is one of those things on my list of "Games I'll Never Play" as #2 behind Russian roulette (Is it still politically correct to call it that?).

 

[CC Mac]

It was a ticky tack call. All he did was cross his arms , not even looking at the Maryland player. I have seen it a thousand times and that is the first time I have seen it called. Sure it was unnecessary as all of that crap is.

I bet if he had just walked back to the huddle the ref wouldn’t have called the penalty.

 

[abraxis]

I bet if he had just walked back to the huddle the ref wouldn’t have called the penalty.

We'll never know.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I bet if he had just walked back to the huddle the ref wouldn’t have called the penalty.

I have no problem with the rule or the call.

What I have a problem with is we will see that same act or worse seven times in the upcoming UM/MSU game with no calls.

 

[jsenleo]

I have no problem with the rule or the call.

What I have a problem with is we will see that same act or worse seven times in the upcoming UM/MSU game with no calls.

Yep.... Kinda like getting a ticket for going 80mph on I-465.... lots of people do it.... just don't be the one to get caught and then whine about.

 

[jsenleo]

I remember a black haired player...ATO fraternity while at IU, I believe, who was quite the personality of the team, or so it seemed. Maybe he only played on the IU club but I wouldn't be surprised if he later played for the Reds. His last name might have started with a "Z". Does this ring a bell? I can still visualize him, although vaguely at this point. He was an attractive player, whatever that means.

Now, when I say I watched the rugby teams, it was but for a handful of times, in passing. I was intrigued by the obscurity of the sport, as much as anything...oh, and the scrum. I always wondered what was going on in there, having never been sure, but miraculously a player always seemed to emerge with the ball. Rugby is one of those things on my list of "Games I'll Never Play" as #2 behind Russian roulette (Is it still politically correct to call it that?).

Attractive player?.... well, the ladies thought I was pretty studly in my day but my hair is brown and I was one of the smallest guys out there ... I joke a lot, too. 😁

I can't think off hand of a tall black-haired player on the Reds with a big personality.... and no one with a last name starting with 'Z". The leaders and most vocal were Verplank, Stein, Hunt, Bruce Burdick, Doc Shelbourne or maybe Danny Lintner .. (former IU DB who was drafted by the Eagles and spent time on their "taxi spuad" and then the WFL)..., Dan was always cracking jokes. ...

Would you be thinking of Smees?... a Cathedral guy, but I don't think he went to IU....

 

[jsenleo]

Old drinking buddy... Never knew his real first name... Won a lot of accolades at his position according to his rugby pals...

He asked me to try out a couple of times (based on my HS football past) but I knew I'd never have the time to put towards it to be any good so I deferred...

He practically lived at Conners on the weekends... Boswell is correct, the rest sounds right but I definitely don't know about the Steve part... Good guy... Hope he's doing well...

Yep, were talking about the same guy... Boz was a great guy but I haven't seen him since '79..... Now that I think about it I think his first name was Rick, but he was always Boz to me so I'm not sure..... He was an RB at Ritter and All-City... He had thighs like tree trunks and major speed, plus he was strong as hell and could plow through weak tacklers.... Boz was kind of quiet and reserved.

..... Most of the time I played we'd go to the Bulldog after practice.... it was the last year that I played, or maybe the year after, when Denny Conner who played as well, opened his place and then everyone started going there... I was only in Conner's a few time.... Boz was a great guy!

BTW, you should have gone out. Some of the best and Craziest times I ever had was playing with the Reds and the road trips to play away games.... amazing we didn't spend too much time in jail.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

taunters are gonna taunt.

they see that taunt as more important than winning.

if that means a penalty for their team, so be it, they aren't going to get cheated out of their 5 yr old mentality taunt.

anyone who thinks i'm exaggerating, doesn't watch college or pro football.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

taunters are gonna taunt.

they see that taunt as more important than winning.

if that means a penalty for their team, so be it, they aren't going to get cheated out of their 5 yr old mentality taunt.

anyone who thinks i'm exaggerating, doesn't watch college or pro football.

Overstaters gonna overstate.

 

[abraxis]

Attractive player?.... well, the ladies thought I was pretty studly in my day but my hair is brown and I was one of the smallest guys out there ... I joke a lot, too. 😁

I can't think off hand of a tall black-haired player on the Reds with a big personality.... and no one with a last name starting with 'Z". The leaders and most vocal were Verplank, Stein, Hunt, Bruce Burdick, Doc Shelbourne or maybe Danny Lintner .. (former IU DB who was drafted by the Eagles and spent time on their "taxi spuad" and then the WFL)..., Dan was always cracking jokes. ...

Would you be thinking of Smees?... a Cathedral guy, but I don't think he went to IU....

There's a chance the guy I"m thinking of never made it past IU Club rugby. He was Greek, hence the dark hair and skin tone. I didn't realize Doc Shelbourne, Colt's physician, played rugby. He probably saw how lucrative the business could be after being in such close association with the walking wounded. Also, didn't know Danny Lintner went on the play the same game. He was in my class at IU. I looked him up and see where he died in 2012 at the age of 61. He was a nice looking chap.

 

[abraxis]

Yep.... Kinda like getting a ticket for going 80mph on I-465.... lots of people do it.... just don't be the one to get caught and then whine about.

Hell, I was driving to work one morning and got pulled over on the NE leg of 465. The officer asked me if I knew what the speed limit was along here. I paused for three nano-seconds before guessing "65", the speed I thought I was traveling it. He said "55" and wrote me a ticket for 10 MPH over the limit. I've often wondered if that officer suffered from low self esteem.

It's been etched in stone tablet, Love Thy Neighbor. Lots of people do it...just don't be the one to get caught and then whine about it.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Overstaters gonna overstate.

really?

when was the last game you watched, that some player didn't get a taunting penalty?

good luck with that.

it's not like they don't know the rule.

they don't care.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

really?

when was the last game you watched, that some player didn't get a taunting penalty?

good luck with that.

it's not like they don't know the rule.

they don't care.

Very few called. Already made this point above.

 

[jsenleo]

There's a chance the guy I"m thinking of never made it past IU Club rugby. He was Greek, hence the dark hair and skin tone. I didn't realize Doc Shelbourne, Colt's physician, played rugby. He probably saw how lucrative the business could be after being in such close association with the walking wounded. Also, didn't know Danny Lintner went on the play the same game. He was in my class at IU. I looked him up and see where he died in 2012 at the age of 61. He was a nice looking chap.

I'm pretty sure Don and I started playing the same season. He had just started or was only a year into med school at the time.... He played at Wabash and IIRC his knees were a friggin' MESS!... How he played is beyond me. When he ran his legs were pretty stiff,.... like Herman Munster... but he could get going at a pretty good rate and when he hit ya... you knew it.

Yep, Danny Lintner was a stud and he could (literally) charm the pants/skirt off most any lady.... one of the most fun guys on the team.... always joking... he never got too serious about the game. Some nights he would "play" bouncer at the Bulldog Lounge and check ID's.... he wasn't the bouncer but he'd sure get a lot of phone numbers from gals. Yes, it's been 10 years since he passed away... I can't believe he's been gone that long! It doesn't seem like it..... Great guy, I really enjoyed being around because he always had me in stiches laughing.... and, one of the best athletes I've ever known or played with....

Danny was the 1969 IHSAA State Long Jump Champ and finished third in the Indy Regional in the 100-yard Dash, right behind the State champ. Such natural athletic talent.... he always made it look easy...

Danny was one of the best athletes ever at IU but he's rarely talked about.... All-American DB, track star and he received a Z.G. Clevenger Award from IU... sadly, gone way too soon.