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I have to spike this football

Nobody ever answered my question about Mike Pence.

Is he a RINO?

People in Indiana ought to know what he stands for.
 
As a former liberal I did throughly enjoy watching Democrats get smashed last night after selling their souls for endorsements from people like Liz & Dick Cheney and the never Trumper warmongers club. By the way, please keep them, we don't want them back.
The idea that Liz or Never Trumpers like me are warmongers is stupid.
 
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As a former liberal I did throughly enjoy watching Democrats get smashed last night after selling their souls for endorsements from people like Liz & Dick Cheney and the never Trumper warmongers club. By the way, please keep them, we don't want them back.
Roger Clemens- "Who ever said ‘I’m leaving America if Trump wins’ … don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out......"


so, has anyone left yet?
 
Growing up like I did with Apollo program and the space race, it seemed obvious to my childish self that our country was somehow eternally special.

But... maybe it just isn't, at least in the aspect that our populace can so willingly embrace hatred and division.
 
Growing up like I did with Apollo program and the space race, it seemed obvious to my childish self that our country was somehow eternally special.

But... maybe it just isn't, at least in the aspect that our populace can so willingly embrace hatred and division.
Funny you mention the Apollo program. Are you ready to unleash America as a space fearing society again? Because Harris was too petty to allow Musk to do his thing.

Spite instead of results. The Democratic party.
 
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I'm more concerned about the repercussions for Vance. After what happened to Pence, he better learn to sleep with his eyes open. And, in 4 years, his political career is over.
That's some wishful thinking, huh? The guy that was derided and belittled after Trump selected him proceeds to go on every mainstream publication and kick each reporters ass. Complete vindication of that selection.

He is communicator the likes of which are rare in politics. He has a bright political future.
 
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The idea that Liz or Never Trumpers like me are warmongers is stupid.

I've been crossing swords with you elsewhere. But let me throw up my shield for you on this one.

I totally agree with you. Most (not all) of the protests that Dick and Liz Cheney and the rest of the Never Trumpers have against Trump are entirely principled and valid. Yes, I also think they throw in a lot of bullshit that has never helped their cause (ie, Trump never said Neo-Nazis at Charlottesville were "fine people"...and people repeating that lie over and over again is indefensible). But that doesn't invalidate the valid arguments.

It is certainly true that Dick Cheney has a very different view of America's role in the world than Donald Trump does. And I don't think it's unfair to say that a significant part of their difference involves the use of force. However, saying this makes Cheney (or others with similar views) a "war monger" is a total bastardization of the complexities of foreign policy in today's world and the realities of the threats we face.
 
That's some wishful thinking, huh? The guy that was derided and belittled after Trump selected him proceeds to go on every mainstream publication and kick each reporters ass. Complete vindication of that selection.

He is communicator that the likes of which are rare in politics. He has a bright political future.
He’s gonna be these liberal bitches president too. They’re all in full blown panic.
 
I'm more concerned about the repercussions for Vance. After what happened to Pence, he better learn to sleep with his eyes open. And, in 4 years, his political career is over.
Man, I don't know. Vance seems to me to have a helluva lot higher ceiling as a politician than Mike Pence ever did.

I always thought Pence was a mediocre, milquetoast guy...even going back to his days as a talk radio host. I always figured Trump chose him in 2016 because (a) no other establishment-friendly Republican would take it, and (b) Pence was on his way to losing reelection as Indiana's governor that year anyway.

I like the cut of JD Vance's jib. He's really grown on me the past couple months. And I was pretty put off by him before all this.
 
Man, I don't know. Vance seems to me to have a helluva lot higher ceiling as a politician than Mike Pence ever did.

I always thought Pence was a mediocre, milquetoast guy...even going back to his days as a talk radio host. I always figured Trump chose him in 2016 because (a) no other establishment-friendly Republican would take it, and (b) Pence was on his way to losing reelection as Indiana's governor that year anyway.

I like the cut of JD Vance's jib. He's really grown on me the past couple months. And I was pretty put off by him before all this.
(c) It helped DJT with the Christians.
 
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Man, I don't know. Vance seems to me to have a helluva lot higher ceiling as a politician than Mike Pence ever did.

I always thought Pence was a mediocre, milquetoast guy...even going back to his days as a talk radio host. I always figured Trump chose him in 2016 because (a) no other establishment-friendly Republican would take it, and (b) Pence was on his way to losing reelection as Indiana's governor that year anyway.

I like the cut of JD Vance's jib. He's really grown on me the past couple months. And I was pretty put off by him before all this.
Oh, I'm sure Trump will make him pay for all those things he said in the past. He will be an obedient little doggy for now.
 
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Nobody ever answered my question about Mike Pence.

Is he a RINO?

People in Indiana ought to know what he stands for.
Mike Pence is a good man. He did the right thing in doing his job. Not all Trump people are anti-Pence. Also contrary to popular belief not all Trump fans believe he is right about everything he say and does. I can tell I agree on his policies more than Biden Harris policies.
 
Growing up like I did with Apollo program and the space race, it seemed obvious to my childish self that our country was somehow eternally special.

But... maybe it just isn't, at least in the aspect that our populace can so willingly embrace hatred and division.
You just don’t understand why your team got blown out. If your excuse is “blah Racism and blah misogyny” then you’re as dumb as others on here (not me) call you.
 
I've been crossing swords with you elsewhere. But let me throw up my shield for you on this one.

I totally agree with you. Most (not all) of the protests that Dick and Liz Cheney and the rest of the Never Trumpers have against Trump are entirely principled and valid. Yes, I also think they throw in a lot of bullshit that has never helped their cause (ie, Trump never said Neo-Nazis at Charlottesville were "fine people"...and people repeating that lie over and over again is indefensible). But that doesn't invalidate the valid arguments.

It is certainly true that Dick Cheney has a very different view of America's role in the world than Donald Trump does. And I don't think it's unfair to say that a significant part of their difference involves the use of force. However, saying this makes Cheney (or others with similar views) a "war monger" is a total bastardization of the complexities of foreign policy in today's world and the realities of the threats we face.
Putting the name calling aside...... On second thought, who am I kidding, Dick Cheney is a douchebag and terrible person. He is partially responsible for starting an unnecessary war that led to the deaths 10s of thousands of people. Also, Bush/Cheney Presidency is largely responsible for the GOP's minority status the past 2 decades. And it couldn't be anymore fitting that Dick Cheney switched to the losing side at the last minute.
 
You just don’t understand why your team got blown out. If your excuse is “blah Racism and blah misogyny” then you’re as dumb as others on here (not me) call you.
I don't have a team.

As I have said, if I agreed wholeheartedly with every single one of Trump's policies and hated every single one of Harris's policies (and I'm somewhere in the middle), there's no way I could have voted for Trump. His criminal behavior, his lying, his crudeness, his senility, his toddler tantrums... all are 100% disqualifying.
 
I don't have a team.

As I have said, if I agreed wholeheartedly with every single one of Trump's policies and hated every single one of Harris's policies (and I'm somewhere in the middle), there's no way I could have voted for Trump. His criminal behavior, his lying, his crudeness, his senility, his toddler tantrums... all are 100% disqualifying.
Your team was Kamala and Timmy and senate Dems they got ransacked. Change the identity politics and woke marketing model or get ready for a reckoning.
 
Putting the name calling aside...... On second thought, who am I kidding, Dick Cheney is a douchebag and terrible person. He is partially responsible for starting an unnecessary war that led to the deaths 10s of thousands of people. Also, Bush/Cheney Presidency is largely responsible for the GOP's minority status the past 2 decades. And it couldn't be anymore fitting that Dick Cheney switched to the losing side at the last minute.
Nonsense. For the GOP dominate in the future we need to embrace the likes of Pence, Chaney, Romney, et. al. We are good enough to include all of them. We have substantial agreement on the basics. If Trump really wants to leave a mark, he needs to figure out a way to mend those fences.

If he can pull that off, the Democrats can go wallow in the miserable little identities and their 101 flavors of Trump hate.
 
Nonsense. For the GOP dominate in the future we need to embrace the likes of Pence, Chaney, Romney, et. al. We are good enough to include all of them. We have substantial agreement on the basics. If Trump really wants to leave a mark, he needs to figure out a way to mend those fences.

If he can pull that off, the Democrats can go wallow in the miserable little identities and their 101 flavors of Trump hate.
I don’t know about that.

Those bridges have been scorched. Many could have and should have handled their differences in a much different and less public way.
 
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Nonsense. For the GOP dominate in the future we need to embrace the likes of Pence, Chaney, Romney, et. al. We are good enough to include all of them. We have substantial agreement on the basics. If Trump really wants to leave a mark, he needs to figure out a way to mend those fences.

If he can pull that off, the Democrats can go wallow in the miserable little identities and their 101 flavors of Trump hate.
Nope that branch is gone. This is an odd coalition but it’s not them.
 
If Trump really wants to leave a mark, he needs to figure out a way to mend those fences.
Lord, that's hilarious. He's such a uniter! Look how he treated Nikki Haley after she endorsed him.

He's the kind of guy who would hold a lifetime grudge over not getting the best valentine card in 2nd grade.
 
Lord, that's hilarious. He's such a uniter! Look how he treated Nikki Haley after she endorsed him.

He's the kind of guy who would hold a lifetime grudge over not getting the best valentine card in 2nd grade.
He just united more than half the voters. Look at the map. This is America. Time for extreme libs to change their ways. You
 
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I don’t know about that.

Those bridges have been scorched. Many could have and should have handled their differences in a much different and less public way.
F the Cheney crowd. Trump got more black men. Hispanics. We’ve got an army of immigrants in the country. Trump and the party need to lean in on the working stiffs. Blacks whites Hispanics.
 
Lord, that's hilarious. He's such a uniter! Look how he treated Nikki Haley after she endorsed him.

He's the kind of guy who would hold a lifetime grudge over not getting the best valentine card in 2nd grade.
You’ve already covered 88 flavors of Trump hate. I think you”ll easily make 101 before Thanksgiving.
 
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Nonsense. For the GOP dominate in the future we need to embrace the likes of Pence, Chaney, Romney, et. al. We are good enough to include all of them. We have substantial agreement on the basics. If Trump really wants to leave a mark, he needs to figure out a way to mend those fences.

If he can pull that off, the Democrats can go wallow in the miserable little identities and their 101 flavors of Trump hate.
I agree with Pence, Romney, and people who abstained from voting for Trump, but didn't crossover to Democrats. I disagree with people like Cheney who crossed over and endorsed Harris. They should have zero influence over the party.
 
Putting the name calling aside...... On second thought, who am I kidding, Dick Cheney is a douchebag and terrible person. He is partially responsible for starting an unnecessary war that led to the deaths 10s of thousands of people. Also, Bush/Cheney Presidency is largely responsible for the GOP's minority status the past 2 decades. And it couldn't be anymore fitting that Dick Cheney switched to the losing side at the last minute.
"10s of thousands?"

You're off by two orders of magnitude? Don't forget the $1-3 trillion in costs.
 
I agree with Pence, Romney, and people who abstained from voting for Trump, but didn't crossover to Democrats. I disagree with people like Cheney who crossed over and endorsed Harris. They should have zero influence over the party.
True. And how bout a shout out for old George W. Bush. As every living president was lining up against Trump, Dubya restrained. Despite immense pressure to the same.

That is a good man. A million Iraqi's might not agree......
 
True. And how bout a shout out for old George W. Bush. As every living president was lining up against Trump, Dubya restrained. Despite immense pressure to the same.

That is a good man. A million Iraqi's might not agree......
He might be a good man who made a disastrously evil decision. Hard for many to accept.
 
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I'm more concerned about the repercussions for Vance. After what happened to Pence, he better learn to sleep with his eyes open. And, in 4 years, his political career is over.
I think that could prove to be true. How many people from Trump's first term were either disgraced or spoke out against Trump and roundly called and idiot or worse by Trump and his cult? I'd say odds are decent that Vance will be a smarmy VP that will fall out of Trump's favor sooner or later.
 
Putting the name calling aside...... On second thought, who am I kidding, Dick Cheney is a douchebag and terrible person. He is partially responsible for starting an unnecessary war that led to the deaths 10s of thousands of people. Also, Bush/Cheney Presidency is largely responsible for the GOP's minority status the past 2 decades. And it couldn't be anymore fitting that Dick Cheney switched to the losing side at the last minute.

That’s more like it. I can’t really disagree with any of it.
 
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