Holtmann
- Thread starter dbmhoosier
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Any chance Eric Musselman can be hired away from Arkansas? He makes plenty, and contract goes out a few years.
I just remember his name linked as an IU target years ago. Don't know if that was ever true.
I don't know what his detractors say about him. I read slams of how he went all in on transfers instead of home grown. Also that he's very in your face style coach.
Just wondering. His record is good. About the only coach Alford followed who Alford didn't do better than.
I just remember his name linked as an IU target years ago. Don't know if that was ever true.
I don't know what his detractors say about him. I read slams of how he went all in on transfers instead of home grown. Also that he's very in your face style coach.
Just wondering. His record is good. About the only coach Alford followed who Alford didn't do better than.
It seems IU only swung for the fences once...with Brad Stevens...and settled for well....we know. Its a shame the Billy Donovan fantasy was just that. Its puzzling how the same hiring mistake keeps repeating itself. By now...an accidentally successful hire would seem likely....no?
@BigRedMachineBigBlueNation remember when your bunch wanted Holtmann?
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile? Except Indiana U. trustees and admin I guess, in basketball.
That’s the thing about wanting to fire somebody. The firing part is easy. The hiring part is what is tricky.
The Miller hire wasn't a bad one. It worked out that way, but almost everyone at the time thought it was anywhere from good to a home run. It's just a risk of hiring a younger coach moving up to a bigger stage, sometimes they can't replicate their success. The closest thing to a guarantee is hiring someone at the top who's established as elite at every level he's been at. There aren't a lot of those guys.
Matta is not in line to be the AD, that position was recently named. What he has said is that Butler is his last coaching stop. Truly think he means it. He wants Butler solidly back in the mix—and while Butler doesn’t have the resources or alumni base of an IU, it’s in the Big East—so most certainly a conference considered “big time” in the world of college basketball.
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CAM has a mid major personality. From day one, I always got a strange vibe from him, like he wasn't all that thrilled to be here and was pressured into taking on the much-higher-profile job at IU. Being an introvert head coach at IU probably won't work. Neither will losing. Pair the two together...disaster.
As goofy and weird as CTC was, and is...he always seemed like he wanted to be at IU. Unfortunately his skill set seems to be more in the marketing arena, not in the Xs and Os. After the train wreck in Georgia, his head coaching career is likely over, sans a gig at a much smaller school.
I was actually expecting a little more fire and passion from CMW. The sleepy Mike act on the sidelines and the pressers isn't encouraging, and right now neither is the offense he's rolling out there every game. Without TJD sticking around, the first 3 CMW years could have looked very much like CAM's first 3 yrs.
It is going to be very difficult to lure any of the big names/top guys to Bloomington, especially after running off CMW. We couldn't pull it off when we got rid of CAM, and I don't think the environment is any better now.
I'm not saying the Miller hire was smarter. I am saying that all the geniuses that post nonstop about how bad IU is don't have any clue what they are talking about. They cry and whine about how stupid we are for not hiring the next shiny new toy they love.
When that guy is revealed to be no better than our other failures, they just move on to their next shiny new toy and continue complaining. They don't actually have any idea if those coaches would work out. Those coaches are props they use and then throw away in their on-going ensemble cast workplace comedy. The show is called IU sucks.
Over the years, those shiny toys include:
Steve Alford (failed at Iowa and UCLA)
Brad Stevens (doesn't want to coach in college)
Thad Matta (got fired at OSU, but managed to become the shiny toy again this year at Butler)
Archie Miller (fired at IU)
Gregg Marshall (got fired at Wichita St.)
Mark Few (not interested)
Tony Bennett (not interested, because we fired his sister)
Chris Mack (failed at Louisville)
Holtmann (failed at OSU, and Siena before that)
And there are certainly a bunch of others that I can't remember.
The truth is, no one, and especially not the yokels on this board, know how a coach will work out here. It's all theories and hopes and luck until they get here, and then we find out if they can coach a P5 team, recruit at a high major, deal with boosters, big ten refs, and 5-star entitlement, and all the other challenges here.
Everyone, and especially everyone's current favorite reversible jacket closted PU fan, said we should hire Miller. They were wrong, but that doesnt stop them now from hitting us over the head with Dusty May, Schertz, Beard, Pearl, or whoever else serves their anti-IU agenda.
I don't pretend to know what our options were 3 years ago, or what they'd be this off season vs. next offseason or 3 years from now. But neither do they. It's annoying that they will NOT shut up about it. If I were hiring a college coach, I'd prefer a young up and comer. I probably wouldn't have hired Woodson. But I also don't need to post about it 15 times a day or shit on my alma mater, like they do.
They deserve to be reminded how stupid they are.
EDIT: Holtmann was at Gardner-Webb before Butler, not Siena, and wasn't a failure, but quit anyway to become an assistant at Butler.
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I have read several comments such as yours regarding the IU admin. No one specifies what the problem is. More like the admin is the nebulous boogie man.
IU pays Mike VERY well. I think most of the Bball facilities are pretty nice. Maybe not state of the art since they have some years on them but I would think they would rate pretty high. Recruiting budget is insane!
In football, IMO, they made a great hire and paid him and his staff going market rate or above. Once again, the facilities are not Alabama level but they probably never will be. The stadium is now finished as in a complete bowl. There is ALWAYS something to do or upgrade but that will ALWAYS be the case.
What are the systemic problems with the IU administration? I would appreciate it if you would be specific.
When McRobbie was the Pres, I read where people said he didn't support athletics and that hurt the programs. Sure, ideally the Pres would love sports and be a partner but I said at the time, if I was the AD, I would want to run my department without any interference from above. If the rumors of the hire of Sampson are true, that is EXACTLY what I am talking about when it comes to interference from above.
Gonna go out on a limb here with an intangible.....RMK (RIP) is gone in every sense of the word. There is no "shadow" over the program or "factions" to consider. The culture and legacy of RMK will stand on its own historically. However, RMK was not an "IU guy" when he arrived in Bloomington...he built his IU legacy from its inception. The "tradition" of Indiana basketball is at a point where it can be reshaped and molded into a new era with the right coach. IOW...it can be reborn, and should be. Bob Knight set his own standard, but even the standard has changed, with NIL, the portal, etc...No coach today needs to live in RMK's shadow. IU went almost from one square peg in a round hole to another going from CAM to CMW. Neither belong on the sidelines in Bloomington. It will take a seasoned, "accomplished" head coach willing to build his own legacy. We've had willing...we haven't had "accomplished."
IU needs to formally recognize RMK on the hardwood itself; while hiring an "accomplished" college coach who can rebuild and reshape Indiana basketball. We can't repeat the past...and we can't live in it any longer.
IU needs to formally recognize RMK on the hardwood itself; while hiring an "accomplished" college coach who can rebuild and reshape Indiana basketball. We can't repeat the past...and we can't live in it any longer.
Supposedly that Trilly Donovan guy said this morning that alarm bells started going off in Bloomington with Holtmann's firing. Sounds like May has been identified as the next likely hire but they might be too afraid of Buckner to move now. The next Brad Stevens could be getting away. I freaking hate this administration.
“pitino…sprinkled in”
somewhat unfortunate phraseology—gives me the ick, as they say (vbg)
imo, here is a timeline:
When knight was fired there was a clear attempt from the IU admin to move in a different direction:
There wasn’t a desire to have program continuity, rather it was an attempt to vaporize the Knight years, and have a program entirely different. Maybe that was the “de-emphasize athletics “ mantra from Brand, maybe it was from the AD, maybe the trustees, maybe it was boosters but there was a clear attempt at massive change.
I’ve talked about this before, when Mike Davis was on espn outside the lines with Andrea Kramer he was asked what he wanted to change about IU basketball and he said “everything”, Imho, this came from above. I wish I could find that interview, he did mention specific things that IU should be doing (in the recruiting, showcasing talent for the nba areas).
The Sampson hire: First of all, let’s face it, a program had to go out of its way to hire someone that was actually guilty of cheating. Remember the press conference?
IU (paraphrasing): “What Sampson did at Oklahoma could never happen at IU”.
Until it did. So, they were either
1. Lying
2. Totally incompetent
Even the manner in which he was caught was embarrassing. This wasn’t a case of stringent compliance protocols uncovering what they had to be on the alert for. No, this was discovered by an intern that stumbled upon it. Where was the institutional control over something they had to be on the lookout for. So, either we made a weak attempt at being a program like OK (and tried looking the other way), or we were completely incompetent.
I could keep going on, but the problem is time (as in, too much time has passed). As RMKFAN1 famously said, there’s nothing special in the water in Bloomington. As now decades have passed it becomes:
1. Much more difficult to change the culture or identity of the program
2. Find someone that can be (and wants to be) an elite hire.
Sorry this is so long.
I appreciate the response. All I can say is that things don’t happen in a vacuum. There are a number of variables that can dictate outcome, not just who the coach is.
Thanks for the response.
I agree with most of the post in that previous mistakes were made BUT the people that made all those mistakes are long gone. Unless there are bylaws in the university charter that I am unaware of then the mistakes of the past have nothing to do with the future. To paraphrase you paraphrasing RMKFAN1 - there is nothing in the water at IU that makes the people now in charge incompetent.
Your last two bullet points all boil down to the right guy. College ball, IMO, as of now, is still driven by the coach. Find the right coach and you will wake up at night and think that the last 20 years were just a nightmare! 😁
The real problem is finding THAT guy! IU has had two of them in their history, can they find the next one???
Yep. Luck matters. Timing. Lots of things. But until we have an opening, I don't care what Dusty May is doing. Tell me how we beat Northwestern.
I think it largely comes down to 2 factors:
1) the will to attempt to do it;
2) the competence to successfully do it
I think most Admin folks tend to wait for circumstances to force them to find the will to do it. And even then I don’t know if the the requisite competence is there to successfully pull it off.
The old complain about fans complaining.
IU has been really bad — wins and losses don’t lie. We should not be so bad, top-10 NIL and biggest athletic dept bball budget in the B1G (and best home court, fans). The fans are just trying to figure it out on a message board. Who cares.
It’s probably a good thing the fans care enough to post here. It’s amazing how much support IUBB still has for being awful for a quarter century.
If our admin and AD did their job our fans wouldn’t have to talk about coaches.
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Yea. Nothing matters more than the coach, it’s not even close, so everyone is forced to talk coaches when we have the wrong coach. It sucks. I’d rather people talk NCAA seeding and venues.
This season is effectively over. Maybe we make the NIT. Northwestern game has no material impact on the season. It’s a bummer.
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I'm also seeing McDermott of Creighton being mentioned on the OSU sites also. In reality, though, Buckeye basketball is just a way for most of their fans to pass time until football starts even though they're probably a top 20 all-time BB program. They have two main sports programs - Football and Spring football. They've went 11-2 in football the last 3 years and their fan base is just totally disgusted and pi$$ed. Definitely spoiled
I do not see how IU moves on and gets May this year. Dolson's hands are probably tripled tied with rope right now. Anytime you start saying oh just wait one more year and we can get that guy that never ever seems to work out. May is not likely just going to sit around waiting not knowing when the IU job will open.
We will probably go 2-2 in the next four games. I could easily see us losing the last three in a row though after that.
at maryland
at minnesota
michigan state- who as alwasys is starting to kick it in high gear near the end.
I'm not complaining about their complaining. I'm complaining about how stupid they are, and how flawed their logic is.
And their constant bitching goes way beyond trying to figure it out. They've got all the answers. Just ask them. The answer is iU SuX! DoLsOn SuX! InVEStigate BuCkner!
I agree that IU has great fans, generally. But those posters aren't good examples of that. All they care about is shitting on IU (and disappearing after wins), and using every good season by every other coach as evidence to support their dumbass comments.
You have no idea whether Dolson and the admin are any good at their jobs. You have no idea what the challenges of the job are. You aren't qualified to have an opinion. But that obviously won't stop you from spouting off.
Yep, seeing that from other outlets, too.
The Athletic listed several candidates but came down to McDermott being the top choice, and May being next.
Interestingly, The Athletic didn’t list Lamont Paris, which seems odd.
Pretty much everyone else lists him, usually rather highly.
So who is qualified to have an opinion of Dolson? Other ADs? University Presidents? Trustees?
Basketball programs are quantifiable and fans can determine what is good and bad.
IU has every advantage: top-10 NIL, big bball budget, great homecourt, great fans, reasonably good facilities, national exposure, and history. Basically top-10 in every resource.
Yet we are ranked about #100 in year three with no clear catalysts for that materially changing. Dolson is responsible for basketball, our premier sport at IU. Woody coaches the team. Some people aren’t good at their job, assuming the goal is to win and everything good that comes with that.
Or maybe being #100 is actually good for IU, perhaps there is a qualified person who can set me straight.
Personally, I find it much more appropriate to criticize admin. Win/lose the final responsibility lies with them per their job description. I don’t like the player criticism. In that case I think it’s hard to know the whole picture and things can be out of their control, so you really just want to pull for them to do well.
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The on court performance really doesn’t warrant the fan support the program has. Everyone should be thankful the fans still care enough. And if the program keeps producing like it has, that support won’t last forever.
Why do you say basketball is our premier sport?
Why do you think basketball is still our premier sports program?
It’s the biggest “brand” of all our sports. Our fans care about it the most. It drives the most donations. It’s all relative to other sports at IU.
I understand all that but football pays the freight. Unfortunately our basketball program hasn't been premiere for a long time
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