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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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It’s not shocking - it’s just a reflection of the media and Big Tech machines driving extreme division for profits.
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Have you challenged your whiteness yet?
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
- Start date
Sadly you're probably right. Coupled with the continuing dumbing down of America
I don't fear Trump voters as a block, but the true Trumpists are as scary as F.
If you think that Jesus sent him to rule,
or that he is re-taking office on March 4th,
or that he has been some sort of victim of a "deep state",
or that you owe it to him to take up arms against our government,
or that he had no responsibility for the violence on Jan 6,
then you are a Trumpist and you indeed are as much a threat to our democracy as a skinhead, a KKK member, or a member of Al-Qaeda.
They do the same thing with Covid, climate change, and cops killing minorities.
The dumbest Democrats worried about the dumbest Republicans? ;-)
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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I disagree on climate change but agree on the other two.
Gee, I wonder if anyone can think of a reason people are concerned about Trump supporters. It's almost like they think Trump banner-wavers would attack police or cause riots or something.
And, don't respond to this post by mentioning Antifa or BLM -- the Jan. 6 all-white Trump rioters had far less reason to protest/riot than other groups that are not all white. Their stated reason (election fraud) was untrue.
That’s cute but the question was about Trump “supporters”. Not Trump “rioters”.Gee, I wonder if anyone can think of a reason people are concerned about Trump supporters. It's almost like they think Trump banner-wavers would attack police or cause riots or something.
And, don't respond to this post by mentioning Antifa or BLM -- the Jan. 6 all-white Trump rioters had far less reason to protest/riot than other groups that are not all white. Their stated reason (election fraud) was untrue.
Now, I realize that, to a large number of people, there is no difference. As I pointed out, we see it here every day.
It’s still shocking to see it laid out like that.
Like I said, imagine living in fear of 74 million of your fellow Americans.
Well, if we are splitting hairs, the question did not say "fear". It asked about the level of concern that the items were a problem for the country.
If we are splitting hairs.
Meh, the reasons for the summer protests were bullshit too...Gee, I wonder if anyone can think of a reason people are concerned about Trump supporters. It's almost like they think Trump banner-wavers would attack police or cause riots or something.
And, don't respond to this post by mentioning Antifa or BLM -- the Jan. 6 all-white Trump rioters had far less reason to protest/riot than other groups that are not all white. Their stated reason (election fraud) was untrue.
Have you had conversations with folks that recite these things?
I have never personally heard anyone say these things.
It's also shocking to see all those Trump banners attacking cops and invading the capitol.
The problem with your argument is that you seem to be saying there is a difference between Trump supporters and Trump banner-waving rioters but don't explain what it is. Trump supporters-but-not-rioters have done very little to distance themselves from the rioters other than mumble every now and then than they don't support rioting. This includes members of Congress.
Besides, how can anyone seriously argue that they support Trump but don't support rioting? Trump himself has done very little todistance himself from the rioting, especially after telling the rioters that "we love you."
Your condition is worsening. Seek help...It's also shocking to see all those Trump banners attacking cops and invading the capitol.
The problem with your argument is that you seem to be saying there is a difference between Trump supporters and Trump banner-waving rioters but don't explain what it is. Trump supporters-but-not-rioters have done very little to distance themselves from the rioters other than mumble every now and then than they don't support rioting. This includes members of Congress.
Besides, how can anyone seriously argue that they support Trump but don't support rioting? Trump himself has done very little todistance himself from the rioting, especially after telling the rioters that "we love you."
While true, that’s not what I’m saying. Im saying the reasons for the protests themselves are bullshit. Both groups were weak minded non-thinking sheep that allowed themselves to be manipulated & whipped up into a frenzy to be a part of someone’s political narrative. People like you & the guy in the Buffalo hat need outlets for your rage, & between Trump, AOC, Russian troll farms, and LeBron James are more than happy to pull your strings & convince you to take to the streets.
This is a serious discussion question, and I am interested in your reply:
I once posted that almost every positive social change in the history of this country (beginning even before we were a country), and maybe even the world, came about as a result of protest. (COH laughed off my post with a snipe that all positive change was a result of lawyers).
The question is what metric do you use to measure whether or not a protest is bullshit? Is it the means? The end? The jersey color of the team protesting? The people wearing those jerseys? Not to attempt to establish an equivalency, but there were people during the time of sit-ins at segregated lunch counters, saying, "This is bullshit!" Hell, the Pharisees were saying, "This is bullshit!" when Jesus entered the Temple and drove out the money changers, thus beginning a protest movement (Christianity) that is still around today.
So, what metric do you, and should we, use to determine the bullshit level of any protest?
As a political message board, I think it would be interesting to hear from a cross section of posters, but maybe I expect too much.
COH is right and you're right. IMO protests and social angst shine a spotlight on issues that lawyers (and legislatures) then evaluate to see if change is warranted. You give me shit about "ripping off a bank." Google service analysis charges and US Bank and you will find countless message boards with people saying wtf! I wasn't aware of this charge. Then our bank hit us with it and we weren't either. then they added overdraft charges. that practice impacted thousands and thousands of people. Google class action overdraft fees. You will see numerous settlements from banks in excess of 100 mil. Those all started by people complaining and lawyers (sometimes like sharks) jumping on the complaints and through their lawsuits and class actions creating a change in business practices. Imo it's no different with social issues. People complain (protest) (raise awareness) and if there is merit laws get changed.
You got one thing right...I am just giving you shit.
Other than that, I think your answer to my question of what metric do you use to determine if a protest is bullshit, is the concept of "merit". So, how do you determine merit? In other words, we have circled back to my original question, and you have turned it around to express the opposite, which is not really an answer. After all, isn't the level of bullshit related to the absence of merit? 🤔
PS: I'm sure the angry people yelling at the LIttle Rock Nine felt quite meritorious.
The protest raises awareness for evaluation (to determine merit). So cop killings disproportionately impacting blacks. Awareness was raised. Now we evaluate the data. Zero data to support same. No law reform needed.
Cash bail. Awareness raised. Data shows disproportionate racial impact. Now we need to look at what laws need reforming to fix same.
I wouldn’t even go that far. Tim Scott’s bill offered some common sense reforms that could have been a tangible step in the right direction.
Democrats didn’t want it.
Thank you for your serious answers, but I think you are getting more into the aftermath.
But what if I don't have the luxury of hindsight? How do you, as a member of society, determine the level of bullshit. Let's say you are an active member of society, and you look out your window at a group of sign holders and marchers walking down the street. They seem passionate. They seem ready to at least be inconvenienced for a few hours. How do you know if these people, who are obviously wishing to be change agents, are supporting a worthy cause before you grab your coat and join in? Or are all protest bullshit, because protesting things is bullshit? Or are the only protest that aren't bullshit arethe ones you (we) agree with?
Again research. Become informed. We are protesting cops killing unarmed blacks. Okay let’s look at the doj and pd stats and see if there is validity to the claim then make an informed decision. Let’s not let celebrities and social media warriors be our source as that has led to a rush to judgment and imo an exacerbation of our divide
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There is no metric. It is based on opinions and values. My opinions & values did not align with either group. That’s why I referred to them as bullshit. There are Many ways to try & effect change, protests are one of them, however many attract people looking for reasons to be violent, turn into riots and cause a lot of grief for other people. I do not advocate participating in an injustice in the name of injustice.
Once again, thanks.
So, how many of those early protestors in Minneapolis were influenced by celebrities or SJW's? I would say they were pretty motivated on their own.
Also, while some protests may be misguided, wouldn't you agree that sometimes, they self-correct, and change the narrative?
I know...I'm way off the original subject. No need to answer.
Thank you for your response.
Okay, so protests in the name of causes you don't agree with are bullshit.
Follow up question: Isn't there a difference between saying, "You are wrong" , and "I don't agree with you"?
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Police reform is heavily needed - but I don’t buy it’s for racial reasons. Cops are killing far too many unarmed people of all races. This is America - lethal force cannot happen unless absolutely necessary.
I don't think any protest is bullshit. We have a right to protest anything in this country and I stand by that. The cause doesn't matter much if at all.
I think your question really is about how a protest is carried out. Rosa Parks sitting in the front of the bus is a legitimate protest. Unruly gangs shutting down interstate highways about Rosa Parks isn't legit. This "calling attention to" argument is BS and is simply a rationalization for assholes to be assholes. A protest should address the issue being protested, it shouldn't be a general social upheaval to change a discrete and identifiable injustice.
Colin Kaepernick's National Anthem protest was particularly BS and shortsighted. Kaepernick attracted a following. Kaepernick put a dagger in the heart of an important unifying event. The end result is that Kaepernick destroyed the most basic cohesive element and social common purpose needed to carry out the object of his protest. He can't possibly succeed now. His protest wasn't violent and really didn't really disrupt lives, yet it did enormous damage.
I stand by my lawyer comment. Almost all important social change begins with a smart, creative, and dedicated lawyer making a case. A little old lady with hot coffee and a good lawyer did more to address corporate arrogance and abuse than all the Occupy Wall Street protests put together. There is a reason for the "First thing we do is kill all the lawyers" comment in Henry the VI. But there are a couple of exceptions, woman's suffrage and prohibition come to mind.
Agreed. Elevating the quality of cops nationally would take big bucks
What a ridiculous response. The bolded part in particular.It's also shocking to see all those Trump banners attacking cops and invading the capitol.
The problem with your argument is that you seem to be saying there is a difference between Trump supporters and Trump banner-waving rioters but don't explain what it is. Trump supporters-but-not-rioters have done very little to distance themselves from the rioters other than mumble every now and then than they don't support rioting. This includes members of Congress.
Besides, how can anyone seriously argue that they support Trump but don't support rioting? Trump himself has done very little todistance himself from the rioting, especially after telling the rioters that "we love you."
You’re doing an outstanding job of making my point for me. You see no real difference between rioters who carried Trump flags and ordinary Americans who happened to vote for Trump and you seem to be saying that those who merely voted for him need to prove to you that they’re not rabid white supremacists. That’s not how it works. That’s idiotic.
You are part of the problem.
Thank you.
Where do you categorize lunch counter sit-ins, that sometimes led to violent reactions (and were meant to as part of the strategy)?
While the extreme is easy to identify, the middle is more ambiguous. There are no bright lines. I black person can't have lunch at a burned out lunch counter that was burned in protest of blacks not being able to have lunch there.
So, are you saying those protest were counter-productive?
Also, are you saying that having lunch at that specific lunch-counter was the goal? I say the goal was to highlight the evilness of those who would burn it down, thus garnering some support.
Edit to point out my unintentional play on words ("counter-productive").
You didn't need the edit; I saw what you did there.
My burned out lunch counter was a allegory for the point that a protest which destroys the means to help carry out the purpose of the protest is BS. A protest aimed at destroying freedom of expression for some will fail to protect the freedom to protest for everyone. To be effective, Kaepernick needs agreement of those who wear a "I stand for the anthem" T-shirt.
Don't ask me explain your thoughts.
The graph we were discussing only says Democrats are "concerned" about "Trump supporters" (Post 112.). You're the one who equated that to "living in fear of 74 million people (i.e. voters)" (Post 119). Nothing in that graph mentions fear or voters.
And none of my posts accused anyone of being "rabid white supremacists" as you claimed in your Post 151.
Edit to add: Looks like the Republicans fear Democrat voters far more than vice versa.
State Republicans push new voting restrictions after Trump’s loss
Georgia is at the center of the effort, with state Republicans discussing voter ID changes and other new policies after Biden won the state.
www.politico.com
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You keep validating everything I’m saying by asking me to explain the difference between someone who riots in Trumps name and someone who merely casts a vote for him.Don't ask me explain your thoughts.
The graph we were discussing only says Democrats are "concerned" about "Trump supporters" (Post 112.). You're the one who equated that to "living in fear of 74 million people (i.e. voters)" (Post 119). Nothing in that graph mentions fear or voters.
And none of my posts accused anyone of being "rabid white supremacists" as you claimed in your Post 151.
Edit to add: Looks like the Republicans fear Democrat voters far more than vice versa.
State Republicans push new voting restrictions after Trump’s loss
Georgia is at the center of the effort, with state Republicans discussing voter ID changes and other new policies after Biden won the state.
The only similarities are in your fevered imagination.
You equate the two as a way to demonize people you disagree with politically. As I said, you are part of the problem.
I haven’t looked, but I’m guessing if people who leaned conservative were polled, they didn’t put Biden supporters as their number one concern for this country. Lol.
Orange Man Bad has become a religion for a lot of people.
The fact you dodged explaining why you equated "Trump supporters" in Post 112 with the Trump voters you injected in your Post 119 (and then tried to blame me) says it all.
Have a good day.
Protests in the name of causes I believe in can be bullshit as well. Blocking roads, shouting at people trying to eat dinner, and generally disrupting peoples lives that may have nothing to do with the cause is bullshit regardless of what I think of the cause.
As to your follow up question, the lack of distinction between the two is what causes most threads on this board to devolve into mud slinging.
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