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Harris vs. Trump 2024

There is no way to answer this question. Voter fraud is largely undetectable . All we can do is take proactive measures to stop it. But I would say lack of protective measures will increase the likelihood of fraud.

Well, I do very much agree that absence of evidence is not equivalent to evidence of absence. And I think, when it comes to voter fraud, a whole lot of people have arguments that rest on this false equivalency.

And I also very much agree that nobody has a very good idea how much of it goes on. So, whenever somebody says "There's very little evidence of voter fraud happening often....so why do we need more protective measures?!?" I'm always very unmoved by the argument. There's little evidence of hijackers boarding airplanes very often....but I'm certainly thankful the authorities do their diligence on trying to prevent them from doing so.

That said, if some candidate wants to make a claim that they lost an election they should actually have won -- but for voter fraud -- then I think it's incumbent on them to present evidence that supports the allegation. It's been 4 years since the 2020 election -- and, to date, neither Trump nor any of his surrogates has ever made this case. And yet many of them continue to insist he was the victim of voter fraud.

It's a malicious lie.
 
What was a valid reason for anybody in the House voting not to certify the 2020 election? Yet Trump not only fomented all kinds of pressures on them to do just that -- up to and including just excommunicating Mike Pence from his good graces -- he even sought to have false electors certified in place of actual ones.

I have no idea what things might hypothetically happen that would actually be just cause for the House to reject the electors for a state or states. I'm simply saying that there could be reasons why it would be the right thing for them to do -- whether it's in Trump's favor or Harris' favor.

My point is that House certification of electors is not supposed to be some pro forma rubber stamp. But you have such a one-track mind in favor of Trump, Trump, Trump....rather than just the proper view that the duly pledged electors -- be they for Trump or Harris -- should have their votes counted and totaled up...and whichever candidate gets >=270 of them should be declared the winner.
Ward v. Jackson the case in AZ where the Democrat Party's own hand picked signature expert confirmed that the number of Biden ballots in the sample the judge allowed them to look at contained enough signatures that he could not verify that were almost 10x's Biden's margin of victory in AZ. The only time any independent party was ever allowed to review the signatures anywhere.
 
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Just saw the last half hour or so of Obama's campaign speech for Harris in PA. Like him or hate him, no one can deny the guy can deliver.
I liked the part where he was discussing Trump ever buying diapers himself...But he left out the "for himself" and somebody in the crowd helped him out...

 
Ward v. Jackson the case in AZ where the Democrat Party's own hand picked signature expert confirmed that the number of Biden ballots in the sample the judge allowed them to look at contained enough signatures that he could not verify that were almost 10x's Biden's margin of victory in AZ. The only time any independent party was ever allowed to review the signatures anywhere.
This so stupid. Everybody changes their signature over the years. I've used both Timothy and Tim, made my Ts differently and if my life depended on it I could not tell you which version I used when I signed my voter registration card. On top of that, in the past year I've developed a shaking where my hand shakes to the point that if I'm carrying something or holding a plate of food my arm might shake so uncontrollably that some of the food bounces off the plate. And you think someone is going to verify my signature?

So I wonder how come all of these extra "election security" measures only emerged after the GOP became the minority party and started regularly losing elections? Was GA's GOP raising Hell in the 2018 race when millions of Dem voters were disenfranchised by having their names removed from the voter rolls? In many cases they had no idea and only found out when they got to the polling place and were told they were no longer registered...

No outrage from the GOP for two reasons. They were predominantly Dems and predominantly Black. And while I generally think Kemp has becomw a pretty good Governor, the reality is that all these measures and the accompanying lack of transparency occurred while he was the Sec of State and in charge of GA elections...
 
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This so stupid. Everybody changes their signature over the years. I've used both Timothy and Tim, made my Ts differently and if my life depended on it I could not tell you which version I used when I signed my voter registration card. On top of that, in the past year I've developed a shaking where my hand shakes to the point that if I'm carrying something or holding a plate of food my arm might shake so uncontrollably that some of the food bounces off the plate. And you think someone is going to verify my signature?

I don't know the first thing about the Arizona case that dbm is talking about here. So I'll decline general comment on it.

But, assuming the handwriting expert he references is on the up-and-up, is truly qualified, isn't some quack or hack, etc...

...don't you think an actual handwriting expert would be able to filter for the kinds of differences you're talking about here? If they couldn't, I don't think I'd consider them a qualified handwriting expert.

So I wonder how come all of these extra "election security" measures only emerged after the GOP became the minority party and started regularly losing elections?

States started implementing Voter ID laws in the 1970s. When Indiana's law was passed in 2005, the state hadn't voted for a Democratic presidential ticket since 1964 (it did, however, vote for one in 2008....with the law in effect).

Was GA's GOP raising Hell in the 2018 race when millions of Dem voters were disenfranchised by having their names removed from the voter rolls?

Uh, I'm going to need a link on this. "Millions" of Georgia voters -- all Democrats, BTW -- showed up to vote in 2018 and learned that their names had been removed from the voter rolls? And, because of this, they were unable to vote?

FTR, the total number of votes cast in the Georgia Gov. and Senate elections in 2022 was roughly 3.9M. The total number of votes cast for Georgia Gov. in the 2018 election was...roughly 3.9M. According to what you typed, at least 5.9M people showed up to vote in that election -- and at least 3.9M of them were Democrats. But at least 2 million of them ("millions" is plural) were surprised to find out they were no longer registered.

I'm....skeptical.

Also, there's nothing wrong or unusual about culling voter registration rolls. Can you imagine if states didn't do this? And I'm sure white voters get culled from the rolls at roughly the same rate as black voters.....as whites are just as likely as blacks to, ya know, die.
 
The democrats oppose every single measure to make voting more reliable, secure, dependable, and safe from non-eligible voters. They support every measure to make counting more secretive.

I think their stated reason of wanting to maximize voting is hogwash. It doesn’t take widespread fraud to change things.

As @twenty02 observed, when red tape is cut, fraud is rampant.
Whatever do you mean? @CO. Hoosier


 
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What would be a valid reason for them not certifying? They are thinking Trump will steal it lol after we were told in 2020 that it's impossible and we have the most secure elections in the world? Btw Dems have the governorship and SoS office in almost every battleground state. And Kemp and Ratburger are both full blown RINOs who want Trump to lose.
You are a full blown idiot.
 
I believe the chances that some firmly entrenched democrat operatives in deep blue jurisdictions will cheat are 100%

I also know that our laws are not designed to allow post election litigation about fraudulent voting, only fraudulent counting and that is sketchy.

The pre-election set up to enable cheating is important.
 
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I believe the chances that some firmly entrenched democrat operatives in deep blue jurisdictions will cheat are 100%

I also know that our laws are not designed to allow post election litigation about fraudulent voting, only fraudulent counting and that is sketchy.

The pre-election set up to enable cheating is important.
Thanks for contributing to the problem. 😏
 
Thanks for contributing to the problem. 😏
That’s not much of a contribution. Mail voting security is a problem. This issue has been around forever. That is why absentee was so burdened with red tape back in the day when only in person voting was allowed. The problem is more important today. Marc Elias is a master at creating and then using all loopholes.
 
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I don't know the first thing about the Arizona case that dbm is talking about here. So I'll decline general comment on it.

But, assuming the handwriting expert he references is on the up-and-up, is truly qualified, isn't some quack or hack, etc...

...don't you think an actual handwriting expert would be able to filter for the kinds of differences you're talking about here? If they couldn't, I don't think I'd consider them a qualified handwriting expert.



States started implementing Voter ID laws in the 1970s. When Indiana's law was passed in 2005, the state hadn't voted for a Democratic presidential ticket since 1964 (it did, however, vote for one in 2008....with the law in effect).



Uh, I'm going to need a link on this. "Millions" of Georgia voters -- all Democrats, BTW -- showed up to vote in 2018 and learned that their names had been removed from the voter rolls? And, because of this, they were unable to vote?

FTR, the total number of votes cast in the Georgia Gov. and Senate elections in 2022 was roughly 3.9M. The total number of votes cast for Georgia Gov. in the 2018 election was...roughly 3.9M. According to what you typed, at least 5.9M people showed up to vote in that election -- and at least 3.9M of them were Democrats. But at least 2 million of them ("millions" is plural) were surprised to find out they were no longer registered.

I'm....skeptical.

Also, there's nothing wrong or unusual about culling voter registration rolls. Can you imagine if states didn't do this? And I'm sure white voters get culled from the rolls at roughly the same rate as black voters.....as whites are just as likely as blacks to, ya know, die.
OK this is what I get for trying to remember details from an article I read previously without going back and doing research. Obviously I was wrong about "millions", and I should have said thousands. I think I looked at this stat and thought since the total it mentioned for a single day was over 1/2 million, I probably assumed that the total reached 1 million as well...

Again I didn't go back and google on this subject till just now when I read your response. I remembered APM documenting the story of this particular voter being disenfranchised. The margin Kemp won by was around 55,000 so I don't see it as particularly difficult to believe that Kemp's actions likely helped himself.

Also I'm pretty sure that Kemp had made the decision to run for Governor by July 2017, so a huge "purge" of voters a year or so before an election you are going to be running in seems at the very least a questionable act that displays a conflict of interest...It doesn't appear these folks were purged because they died, but rather that they had skipped some elections. On a general matter of principle, as someone who has skipped my share of elections I am opposed to that being used as a reason to "purge" someone from the voter rolls...

"On a single day in late July 2017, Kemp's office had removed from the rolls 560,000 Georgians who had been flagged because they'd skipped one too many elections. Abrams would later call the purge the "use-it-or-lose-it scheme." An APM Reports investigation last year estimated 107,000 of the people purged under the policy would otherwise have been eligible to vote last year, just like Baiye."

"Georgia is one of a handful of states that removes people from the voter rolls for not turning out to vote in recent elections. Democrats and voting rights advocates have argued that just because someone chooses not to exercise their right to vote doesn't mean they should be removed from the registration list. On the campaign trail, Kemp maintained that, in weeding out infrequent voters, he was safeguarding the election from fraud."


Governors run for a 6 yr term. So Kemp could easily have "purged" the rolls in 2019 (following the election) as in 2017 the year prior to the election...
 
Ill tell you what... You continue to rely on opinion pieces from people who use sources that were wrong in 2022 and I'll stick with the people who were not only right, but exposed exactly how and why the Red Wave narrative got pushed in the first place...

There were plenty of nervous Dems pushing the panic button just like now in 2022. But the folks who analyzed the early vote and knew that "likely voter" screens were still missing the (mainly) women who registered in response to Dodds knew that the polls were wrong.

So the idea that the Dems could win every special election from 2021 to now, out perform their poll predictions by 7 or 8 in nearly every race, while Trump was underperforming on a regular basis in GOP Primaries relative to his poll numbers and yet now those same polls are undervaluing Trump is pretty ridiculous. Suddenly because of a few strategically placed push polls we're supposed to believe that Harris has a 3-4 or more lead in National polls and yet each of the swing states is basically in the MOE and that means Trump is winning?




That is not what early vote is showing. The turnout rate in Wayne (Detroit) and Philadelphia counties which usually lag behind the statewide numbers in MI and PA respectively are on pace with the turnout rate statewide and among heavily GOP counties. Overall many of the turnout rates in Dem areas are higher than they were in 2020, in the Blue wall states Biden won. Biden won Philadelphia County by 470,000 votes in 2020, with a turnout rate of 66% which was 11 points below the state average.

Currently Phil Co is at 6.8 turnout rate, 10th in Co ranking and above the state average of 6.6. If Philly narrows the 2020 11 point margin in turnout rate between 68% (Phil) and 77% (state average), that will be a huge boost in Dem numbers from Philly, compared to 2020. It's early but none of these voting trends indicate Trump is "winning".

Trump may have screwed up mightily attacking Detroit, because while Wayne County contributes a large amount of votes to Dem it usually does so with a lower turnout rate than the state average. Early numbers are showing there may be some pissed off Detroiters, as Detroit/Wayne Co is performing better than expected in terms of turnout rate.

 
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You really think a poll supposedly showing Harris went down 5% in just 5 days is believable?

What you posted does not even show a margin of error,
ABC Ipsos just dropped. 4 point movement towards Trump as well. And both of these polls were Biden and Hillary by double digits in October.

 
She’s a radical left wing nut

 

He’s an idiot. He got co-opted by 20 somethings. 50 years in gov and let that happen. Left us her after buying into the woke bs along with all the other messes he created from the border to prices. Just an awful president. From uncle Joe to angry old goat. He should abandon whatever he has left and go start building houses in nc. He doesn’t have as long as Carter to devote to it so better get cooking. Rehab houses and his legacy
 
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What dumb advice. Kamala can’t fix her male problem with Liz Chaney or Mitt Romney. Nor can she fix it with scripted talking points. She has the whole consensus, compromise, common ground thing basssakwards. Those are not beginning points, they how you end a disagreement. She sounds like she has no opinion about anything until she discusses it. She once said there is “ no question that she opposes fracking.” Instead of playing mush mouth on the issue, she should say something like “I know I can’t have my way on fracking so I am willing to negotiate specific places where fracking might be ok”.
 
What dumb advice. Kamala can’t fix her male problem with Liz Chaney or Mitt Romney. Nor can she fix it with scripted talking points. She has the whole consensus, compromise, common ground thing basssakwards. Those are not beginning points, they how you end a disagreement. She sounds like she has no opinion about anything until she discusses it. She once said there is “ no question that she opposes fracking.” Instead of playing mush mouth on the issue, she should say something like “I know I can’t have my way on fracking so I am willing to negotiate specific places where fracking might be ok”.
Offer your advice to her.
 
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They literally hid her in the basement for 3 years and then for months after Biden dropped out all while Trump has been doing events and interviews everywhere.

 
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