Harris vs. Trump 2024

[crazed_hoosier2]

There is no way to answer this question. Voter fraud is largely undetectable . All we can do is take proactive measures to stop it. But I would say lack of protective measures will increase the likelihood of fraud.

Well, I do very much agree that absence of evidence is not equivalent to evidence of absence. And I think, when it comes to voter fraud, a whole lot of people have arguments that rest on this false equivalency.

And I also very much agree that nobody has a very good idea how much of it goes on. So, whenever somebody says "There's very little evidence of voter fraud happening often....so why do we need more protective measures?!?" I'm always very unmoved by the argument. There's little evidence of hijackers boarding airplanes very often....but I'm certainly thankful the authorities do their diligence on trying to prevent them from doing so.

That said, if some candidate wants to make a claim that they lost an election they should actually have won -- but for voter fraud -- then I think it's incumbent on them to present evidence that supports the allegation. It's been 4 years since the 2020 election -- and, to date, neither Trump nor any of his surrogates has ever made this case. And yet many of them continue to insist he was the victim of voter fraud.

It's a malicious lie.

 

[dbmhoosier]

What was a valid reason for anybody in the House voting not to certify the 2020 election? Yet Trump not only fomented all kinds of pressures on them to do just that -- up to and including just excommunicating Mike Pence from his good graces -- he even sought to have false electors certified in place of actual ones.

I have no idea what things might hypothetically happen that would actually be just cause for the House to reject the electors for a state or states. I'm simply saying that there could be reasons why it would be the right thing for them to do -- whether it's in Trump's favor or Harris' favor.

My point is that House certification of electors is not supposed to be some pro forma rubber stamp. But you have such a one-track mind in favor of Trump, Trump, Trump....rather than just the proper view that the duly pledged electors -- be they for Trump or Harris -- should have their votes counted and totaled up...and whichever candidate gets >=270 of them should be declared the winner.

Ward v. Jackson the case in AZ where the Democrat Party's own hand picked signature expert confirmed that the number of Biden ballots in the sample the judge allowed them to look at contained enough signatures that he could not verify that were almost 10x's Biden's margin of victory in AZ. The only time any independent party was ever allowed to review the signatures anywhere.

 

[cosmickid]

Just saw the last half hour or so of Obama's campaign speech for Harris in PA. Like him or hate him, no one can deny the guy can deliver.

I liked the part where he was discussing Trump ever buying diapers himself...But he left out the "for himself" and somebody in the crowd helped him out...

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

I liked the part where he was discussing Trump ever buying diapers himself...But he left out the "for himself" and somebody in the crowd helped him out...

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When they go low, we go…….

 

[cosmickid]

Ward v. Jackson the case in AZ where the Democrat Party's own hand picked signature expert confirmed that the number of Biden ballots in the sample the judge allowed them to look at contained enough signatures that he could not verify that were almost 10x's Biden's margin of victory in AZ. The only time any independent party was ever allowed to review the signatures anywhere.

This so stupid. Everybody changes their signature over the years. I've used both Timothy and Tim, made my Ts differently and if my life depended on it I could not tell you which version I used when I signed my voter registration card. On top of that, in the past year I've developed a shaking where my hand shakes to the point that if I'm carrying something or holding a plate of food my arm might shake so uncontrollably that some of the food bounces off the plate. And you think someone is going to verify my signature?

So I wonder how come all of these extra "election security" measures only emerged after the GOP became the minority party and started regularly losing elections? Was GA's GOP raising Hell in the 2018 race when millions of Dem voters were disenfranchised by having their names removed from the voter rolls? In many cases they had no idea and only found out when they got to the polling place and were told they were no longer registered...

No outrage from the GOP for two reasons. They were predominantly Dems and predominantly Black. And while I generally think Kemp has becomw a pretty good Governor, the reality is that all these measures and the accompanying lack of transparency occurred while he was the Sec of State and in charge of GA elections...

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

This so stupid. Everybody changes their signature over the years. I've used both Timothy and Tim, made my Ts differently and if my life depended on it I could not tell you which version I used when I signed my voter registration card. On top of that, in the past year I've developed a shaking where my hand shakes to the point that if I'm carrying something or holding a plate of food my arm might shake so uncontrollably that some of the food bounces off the plate. And you think someone is going to verify my signature?

I don't know the first thing about the Arizona case that dbm is talking about here. So I'll decline general comment on it.

But, assuming the handwriting expert he references is on the up-and-up, is truly qualified, isn't some quack or hack, etc...

...don't you think an actual handwriting expert would be able to filter for the kinds of differences you're talking about here? If they couldn't, I don't think I'd consider them a qualified handwriting expert.

So I wonder how come all of these extra "election security" measures only emerged after the GOP became the minority party and started regularly losing elections?

States started implementing Voter ID laws in the 1970s. When Indiana's law was passed in 2005, the state hadn't voted for a Democratic presidential ticket since 1964 (it did, however, vote for one in 2008....with the law in effect).

Was GA's GOP raising Hell in the 2018 race when millions of Dem voters were disenfranchised by having their names removed from the voter rolls?

Uh, I'm going to need a link on this. "Millions" of Georgia voters -- all Democrats, BTW -- showed up to vote in 2018 and learned that their names had been removed from the voter rolls? And, because of this, they were unable to vote?

FTR, the total number of votes cast in the Georgia Gov. and Senate elections in 2022 was roughly 3.9M. The total number of votes cast for Georgia Gov. in the 2018 election was...roughly 3.9M. According to what you typed, at least 5.9M people showed up to vote in that election -- and at least 3.9M of them were Democrats. But at least 2 million of them ("millions" is plural) were surprised to find out they were no longer registered.

I'm....skeptical.

Also, there's nothing wrong or unusual about culling voter registration rolls. Can you imagine if states didn't do this? And I'm sure white voters get culled from the rolls at roughly the same rate as black voters.....as whites are just as likely as blacks to, ya know, die.