Greta Thunberg

[hoosboot]

Needling of course. Hell, I'm needling Mas, since I try not to play into that ugly narrative.

But it's worth exploring the ease with which some people call Israel a "terrorist" nation committing "genocide" while those same people don't spend the same energy calling out the USA, China, etc. for killing innocents in their battles against what they term terrorists or Islamic fundamentalism. Is Israel a special case because they are Jewish and there is a long history of blood libel against them, and so people fall into these anti-semitic tropes?

Personally, I don't generally buy into arguments based on this kind of genealogy. But a lot on the left do, when they look into the history of this or that policy or value goal they don't like, and try to link it to past racism or misogyny. It's ironic, then, that they find the same logic illegitimate when applied to them.

In that post, I'm subtly (or not so subtly) using UncleMark as a proxy for that wing of the left, since a lot of posters here place him there (as I'm using Mas as a proxy for a Nazi, even though I don't think he is one). Again, personally, I don't see him there and I think he knows that.

But thanks for letting me ruin my own stupid joke. Jerk.

Sorry. Nothing ruins a joke quite like explaining it (except maybe a really pedantic hoosboot!) Mas famously employs the _YT trope while UncleMark protests a military tactic that the Israeli government uses, so it doesn't seem like the fair basis for a joke to me. Thankfully, Mark rolls with needles better than some of our more combustible members here.

What's the past antisemitism by leftists of Mark's ilk that stoll is trying to connect this to? I thought the thing here was that liberals were abandoning the Jews that they had been united with for decades. It doesn't track. Liberal pacifists who protest the way Israel is prosecuting its war against Hamas seem cut from the same swath that have also long protested U.S. killing of innocents in the "war on terror".

You raise an interesting idea though that the history of the offense makes it easier to fall into these kinds of tropes...almost like the more you sprain an ankle, the easier it is to sprain your ankle (although I guess the analogy would need to be that the more you sprain your ankle, the more you think you've sprained your ankle).

Anyway, you remind me a lot of Aloha in the way your criticisms seem reserved more for the "team" that you say that you are part of. Appreciate that about you. (and I tried not to explain the very subtle joke laced in here!)

 

[76-1]

Phony Greta is using a diesel engine to get around on a Sailboat... Evidently climate change truly has become a non-issue...

 

[hoosboot]

They are one in the same

Hmm...if I was a happy-go-lucky guy like stoll or farva, I might label this a "the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian" kind of response. Thankfully, I give you more credit than that.

 

[BradStevens]

Sorry. Nothing ruins a joke quite like explaining it (except maybe a really pedantic hoosboot!) Mas famously employs the _YT trope while UncleMark protests a military tactic that the Israeli government uses, so it doesn't seem like the fair basis for a joke to me. Thankfully, Mark rolls with needles better than some of our more combustible members here.

What's the past antisemitism by leftists of Mark's ilk that stoll is trying to connect this to? I thought the thing here was that liberals were abandoning the Jews that they had been united with for decades. It doesn't track. Liberal pacifists who protest the way Israel is prosecuting its war against Hamas seem cut from the same swath that have also long protested U.S. killing of innocents in the "war on terror".

You raise an interesting idea though that the history of the offense makes it easier to fall into these kinds of tropes...almost like the more you sprain an ankle, the easier it is to sprain your ankle (although I guess the analogy would need to be that the more you sprain your ankle, the more you think you've sprained your ankle).

Anyway, you remind me a lot of Aloha in the way your criticisms seem reserved more for the "team" that you say that you are part of. Appreciate that about you. (and I tried not to explain the very subtle joke laced in here!)

The unfairness of it is part of the humor. God, I hate you.

I do identify with Aloha in that way. But I'm less team centric than he is, and my "team" is one of ideas, not of party.

 

[BradStevens]

So we're going to argue over the particular terms used to describe the horrors perpetrated on civilians?

Other than the use of "terrorist" to mirror Stoll's phrasing in the post I responded to, no, I don't believe I have. "War crimes" and "atrocities" would be more accurate, IMO.

Yeah, we're definitely going to argue over those terms. They're important. Devaluing them (just like devaluing the term racist, fascist, etc.) is bad.

 

[BradStevens]

Hmm...if I was a happy-go-lucky guy like stoll or farva, I might label this a "the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian" kind of response. Thankfully, I give you more credit than that.

An interesting qusestion: why is the "nation" Gaza separated from Hamas, but not when it comes to Israel? Why isn't it the Likud vs. Hamas, for example?

I don't believe that leveling Gaza and starving civilians is an appropriate response to the attack by Hamas.

Are civilians in Gaza "starving" or "facing starvation"--as in, it's imminent if food is not secured soon?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/13/middleeast/israel-gaza-starvation-report-intl-hnk

 

[hoosboot]

The unfairness of it is part of the humor. God, I hate you.

I do identify with Aloha in that way. But I'm less team centric than he is, and my "team" is one of ideas, not of party.

 

[hoosboot]

An interesting qusestion: why is the "nation" Gaza separated from Hamas, but not when it comes to Israel? Why isn't it the Likud vs. Hamas, for example?

You'd have to ask super happy-go-lucky-and-not-at-all-miserable stoll that question. He's the one equating criticizing Israel with being antisemitic. Mark has continued to take pains to criticize specific policy, but I agree that the criticism should be of Netanyahu specifically and Likud more broadly. There are LOTS of Israelis who are protesting their own country's actions. We probably need Aloha to come in here to do the criticism of conservatives on this point though since that's not your thing. (I keed, I keed!)

I know you agree that we should criticize the behavior of individuals and not broad-brush to larger groups, so Mark and other liberals should be as specific as possible about where the problem lies.

Are civilians in Gaza "starving" or "facing starvation"--as in, it's imminent if food is not secured soon?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/13/middleeast/israel-gaza-starvation-report-intl-hnk

I guess we can quibble about "starving" vs. "facing food insecurity" vs. "high risk" of famine, but that seems a strange place to make a stand. 450,000 out of 2,100,000 starving seems like a thing. I mean, even Mike Huckabee is saying, “If there wasn’t a humanitarian crisis, there wouldn’t be an effort to try to deal with it. So, the answer is, obviously yes, there is a humanitarian crisis.”

I get your desire for people to be more precise in language. I'm just not sure this one needs to be at the top of your list.

 

[UncleMark]

Mark has continued to take pains to criticize specific policy, but I agree that the criticism should be of Netanyahu specifically and Likud more broadly. There are LOTS of Israelis who are protesting their own country's actions.

Those would be the antisemitic Israelis.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Antisemite much?

That’s so simplistic. An awful lot of Jewish people disagree with what Israel is doing. It doesn’t make them antisemetic.

 

[zeke4ahs]

This is the kind of shit that makes me furious. The Israeli government can't be criticized? To do so is antisemitic?

It’s so silly. It would be like if anyone criticized Trump or Biden saying they hated a whole group of people or their country. There were tons of protests against Netanyahu and his policies.

 

[BradStevens]

I guess we can quibble about "starving" vs. "facing food insecurity" vs. "high risk" of famine, but that seems a strange place to make a stand. 450,000 out of 2,100,000 starving seems like a thing. I mean, even Mike Huckabee is saying, “If there wasn’t a humanitarian crisis, there wouldn’t be an effort to try to deal with it. So, the answer is, obviously yes, there is a humanitarian crisis.”

This isn't a language quibble. It's difficult to parse the Hamas propaganda from what's really going on. I don't think our news services help much.

So you're saying 450,000 people are starving right now? What's the source for that?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Hmm...if I was a happy-go-lucky guy like stoll or farva, I might label this a "the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian" kind of response. Thankfully, I give you more credit than that.

If it walks like a duck…

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Those would be the antisemitic Israelis.

I guess all those rioters who stormed the Capitol Building on 1/6/21 are anti-American, according to stool.

 

[hookyIU1990]

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Those would be the antisemitic Israelis.

99% of Israelis are not Semitic.
The Palestinians, Judeans, Arabs, Jordanians are much more likely to be Semitic.

Hence anti-Semitic Israelis.

Often referred to as Zionists...

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Jealous of a kid?

22 years old

 

[UncleMark]

99% of Israelis are not Semitic.
The Palestinians, Judeans, Arabs, Jordanians are much more likely to be Semitic.

Hence anti-Semitic Israelis.

Often referred to as Zionists...

Mas to the rescue. Being antisemitic is okay!

 

[Lucy01]

You'd have to ask super happy-go-lucky-and-not-at-all-miserable stoll that question. He's the one equating criticizing Israel with being antisemitic. Mark has continued to take pains to criticize specific policy, but I agree that the criticism should be of Netanyahu specifically and Likud more broadly. There are LOTS of Israelis who are protesting their own country's actions. We probably need Aloha to come in here to do the criticism of conservatives on this point though since that's not your thing. (I keed, I keed!)

I know you agree that we should criticize the behavior of individuals and not broad-brush to larger groups, so Mark and other liberals should be as specific as possible about where the problem lies.

I guess we can quibble about "starving" vs. "facing food insecurity" vs. "high risk" of famine, but that seems a strange place to make a stand. 450,000 out of 2,100,000 starving seems like a thing. I mean, even Mike Huckabee is saying, “If there wasn’t a humanitarian crisis, there wouldn’t be an effort to try to deal with it. So, the answer is, obviously yes, there is a humanitarian crisis.”

I get your desire for people to be more precise in language. I'm just not sure this one needs to be at the top of your list.

World hunger could come to an end very quickly if Black Women would share their food!!!

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Mas to the rescue. Being antisemitic is okay!

Facts seem to upset you parts boy....

Why is that?

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

World hunger could come to an end very quickly if Black Women would share their food!!!

Too much seasoning...

 

[jet812]

 

[dbmhoosier]

FAFO

 

[hoosboot]

This isn't a language quibble. It's difficult to parse the Hamas propaganda from what's really going on. I don't think our news services help much.

So you're saying 450,000 people are starving right now? What's the source for that?

I can go get my own, but I'm just pulling things from the link that you offered up and seemed to like because I didn't think you'd like mine.

It sure seems like a language quibble you have. What do you think the humanitarian crisis is that Mike Huckabee was referring to? Isn't that really the ball we should have our eye on? Is it difficult to parse the Israeli propaganda? Since you only criticize Hamas in this way, should I deduce that you're just Aloha-ing your side here? So many questions.

 

[jet812]

You'd have to ask super happy-go-lucky-and-not-at-all-miserable stoll that question. He's the one equating criticizing Israel with being antisemitic. Mark has continued to take pains to criticize specific policy, but I agree that the criticism should be of Netanyahu specifically and Likud more broadly. There are LOTS of Israelis who are protesting their own country's actions. We probably need Aloha to come in here to do the criticism of conservatives on this point though since that's not your thing. (I keed, I keed!)

I know you agree that we should criticize the behavior of individuals and not broad-brush to larger groups, so Mark and other liberals should be as specific as possible about where the problem lies.

I guess we can quibble about "starving" vs. "facing food insecurity" vs. "high risk" of famine, but that seems a strange place to make a stand. 450,000 out of 2,100,000 starving seems like a thing. I mean, even Mike Huckabee is saying, “If there wasn’t a humanitarian crisis, there wouldn’t be an effort to try to deal with it. So, the answer is, obviously yes, there is a humanitarian crisis.”

I get your desire for people to be more precise in language. I'm just not sure this one needs to be at the top of your list.

Those numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to Sudan & Africa at large - why not protests or outcry from the left about that humanitarian crisis?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

horrors perpetrated on civilians

You are very selectively, being extremely generous to who you consider "Civilians". They'd slice your throat in 2 seconds.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Those numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to Sudan & Africa at large - why not protests or outcry from the left about that humanitarian crisis?

"We simply were not given a memo on those, but we are mostly upset about them now too! We promise, trust us".

 

[BradStevens]

I can go get my own, but I'm just pulling things from the link that you offered up and seemed to like because I didn't think you'd like mine.

It sure seems like a language quibble you have. What do you think the humanitarian crisis is that Mike Huckabee was referring to? Isn't that really the ball we should have our eye on? Is it difficult to parse the Israeli propaganda? Since you only criticize Hamas in this way, should I deduce that you're just Aloha-ing your side here? So many questions.

The link I sent did not state 450,000 people were currently dying of starvation in Gaza.

 

[UncleMark]

The link I sent did not state 450,000 people were currently dying of starvation in Gaza.

So how many people have to be hungry for you to take notice? And is hungry not enough, they need to be malnourished or close to death? What is it about the food situation in Gaza that you find questionable?

 

[BradStevens]

So how many people have to be hungry for you to take notice? And is hungry not enough, they need to be malnourished or close to death? What is it about the food situation in Gaza that you find questionable?

I don't want anyone to starve. I have "taken notice."

But I'm trying to figure out what is going on. The reports I've read talk of the risk of starvation, that it is looming. I provided links. That means something different than people are dying, doesn't it? And that same language was used, and people then ran with the same mass starvation story a year ago. This is what Hamas does. So I'm trying to ferret out what is really going on. You seem certain enough to accuse Israel of starving people as a war crime so I'd assume you must have the facts on deaths, etc.

If you want to ask questions in the manner you did, though, let's go: how many Jews have to be butchered and raped for you "to take notice?"

 

[T.M.P.]

That’s so simplistic. An awful lot of Jewish people disagree with what Israel is doing. It doesn’t make them antisemetic.

Y'all use too many words.

I summed up his post with one word in the first reply. Efficiency has its merit.

 

[T.M.P.]

If you want to ask questions in the manner you did, though, let's go: how many Jews have to be butchered and raped for you "to take notice?"

1

What a dumbass question.

 

[jet812]

 

[BradStevens]

View embedded media

Isn't she impaired in some way? Who are her parents? Why did they let her get caught up in his publicity stunt?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Isn't she impaired in some way? Who are her parents? Why did they let her get caught up in his publicity stunt?

Asperger’s. But I think that’s no longer pc to say.

 

[hoosboot]

Those numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to Sudan & Africa at large - why not protests or outcry from the left about that humanitarian crisis?

Of course they have, but I suppose you can make your stand on the idea that there aren't enough people starving there if you think that's a great argument.

 

[UncleMark]

If you want to ask questions in the manner you did, though, let's go: how many Jews have to be butchered and raped for you "to take notice?"

A couple thousand was plenty. Do 50,000 dead Gaza civilians even the score?

 

[76-1]

"We simply were not given a memo on those, but we are mostly upset about them now too! We promise, trust us".

Give em a break... It's gotta be tough keeping up with all the virtue signaling as directed by Boss Hoggs DNC... I mean they only get that one email to wake up to...

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Asperger’s. But I think that’s no longer pc to say.

It's not? Was there a Memo? Can we still say Redneck or Hillbilly?

 

[mcmurtry66]

It's not? Was there a Memo? Can we still say Redneck or Hillbilly?

It’s fluid