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GoT theories, and speculation.

T.M.P.

T.M.P.

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Jul 2, 2014
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If you haven't watched the last episode, read no further.
..........................................................................................................................................................................

Please add (or correct) any theory I've missed... most are related to the book.

#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

#2 - Who is the Azor Azai? #2a - Who is the Prince That Was Promised? #2b - Are the Prince That Was Promised and Azor Azai the same.

#3 - Sansa and Reek? Alive? What's going to happen to/with them? #3a - Was it all a ploy by Ramsey and Reek is just playing out an elaborate mind f' on Sansa?

#4 - Who are the 3 riders of the 3 dragons? Are there 3 riders, or was Dany's dream pointing to something else?

#5 - Was Tywin really Tyrion's father? Is Tyrion part Targ? #5a - Is Tyrion destined to train the dragons?

#6 - Who is the Queen that is younger and more beautiful that will take Cersei down?

#7 - Wtf is Arya doing? It's obvious she will never be no one. The girl is not ready..

#8 - Is Stannis alive? #8a - Will he kill the red witch?

#9 - Will Bran become a tree? WTF is his role? #9a - Where is Rickon?

#10 - Will the horde that surrounds Dany join her?

#11 - Are there Ice dragons? #11a - Will Bran be the one to awaken them?

#12 - Who will kill Ramsey Bolton? (He needs to die a slow and very painful death)

#13 - What will Cersei do with the Un-Mountain? A 9' tall zombie makes her a bit intimidating. #13a Do un-peens work? #13b - What will she do to the Sparrows? (I kinda feel sorry for the woman that kept saying "shame". I wonder if she'll die by over exposure to un peen?)


So many questions. Who has the answers?
 
T.M.P. said:
If you haven't watched the last episode, read no further.
..........................................................................................................................................................................

Please add (or correct) any theory I've missed... most are related to the book.

#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

#2 - Who is the Azor Azai? #2a - Who is the Prince That Was Promised? #2b - Are the Prince That Was Promised and Azor Azai the same.

#3 - Sansa and Reek? Alive? What's going to happen to/with them? #3a - Was it all a ploy by Ramsey and Reek is just playing out an elaborate mind f' on Sansa?

#4 - Who are the 3 riders of the 3 dragons? Are there 3 riders, or was Dany's dream pointing to something else?

#5 - Was Tywin really Tyrion's father? Is Tyrion part Targ? #5a - Is Tyrion destined to train the dragons?

#6 - Who is the Queen that is younger and more beautiful that will take Cersei down?

#7 - Wtf is Arya doing? It's obvious she will never be no one. The girl is not ready..

#8 - Is Stannis alive? #8a - Will he kill the red witch?

#9 - Will Bran become a tree? WTF is his role? #9a - Where is Rickon?

#10 - Will the horde that surrounds Dany join her?

#11 - Are there Ice dragons? #11a - Will Bran be the one to awaken them?

#12 - Who will kill Ramsey Bolton? (He needs to die a slow and very painful death)

#13 - What will Cersei do with the Un-Mountain? A 9' tall zombie makes her a bit intimidating. #13a Do un-peens work? #13b - What will she do to the Sparrows? (I kinda feel sorry for the woman that kept saying "shame". I wonder if she'll die by over exposure to un peen?)


So many questions. Who has the answers?
Click to expand...
#11 I've been reading some stuff on this. Lots of theories there is one within the wall and when it comes down it will be freed. That's the one that bran would control.
Iirc the white walker army can't go through the wall. It was made by bran the builder and the children of the Forrest and is protected by the same magic that protects the 3 eyed Ravens home
 
T.M.P. said:
If you haven't watched the last episode, read no further.
..........................................................................................................................................................................

Please add (or correct) any theory I've missed... most are related to the book.

#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

#2 - Who is the Azor Azai? #2a - Who is the Prince That Was Promised? #2b - Are the Prince That Was Promised and Azor Azai the same.

#3 - Sansa and Reek? Alive? What's going to happen to/with them? #3a - Was it all a ploy by Ramsey and Reek is just playing out an elaborate mind f' on Sansa?

#4 - Who are the 3 riders of the 3 dragons? Are there 3 riders, or was Dany's dream pointing to something else?

#5 - Was Tywin really Tyrion's father? Is Tyrion part Targ? #5a - Is Tyrion destined to train the dragons?

#6 - Who is the Queen that is younger and more beautiful that will take Cersei down?

#7 - Wtf is Arya doing? It's obvious she will never be no one. The girl is not ready..

#8 - Is Stannis alive? #8a - Will he kill the red witch?

#9 - Will Bran become a tree? WTF is his role? #9a - Where is Rickon?

#10 - Will the horde that surrounds Dany join her?

#11 - Are there Ice dragons? #11a - Will Bran be the one to awaken them?

#12 - Who will kill Ramsey Bolton? (He needs to die a slow and very painful death)

#13 - What will Cersei do with the Un-Mountain? A 9' tall zombie makes her a bit intimidating. #13a Do un-peens work? #13b - What will she do to the Sparrows? (I kinda feel sorry for the woman that kept saying "shame". I wonder if she'll die by over exposure to un peen?)


So many questions. Who has the answers?
Click to expand...


How close has the book and the show been thus far? I didn't read any of the message because I have not read the books.
 
It's hard to speculate about some of it because it will just take too long on TV. Ramsay and Reek aren't trying to do anything to Sansa, I don't believe.

Dany is the queen that will replace Cersei. BTW what happened to the queen on the show? I now what happened in thhe book but they just kind of left her on the show.

They finally had Arya go blind. Maybe they will prove her a warg on the show like they did in the book.
 
patrick593 said:
#11 I've been reading some stuff on this. Lots of theories there is one within the wall and when it comes down it will be freed. That's the one that bran would control.
Iirc the white walker army can't go through the wall. It was made by bran the builder and the children of the Forrest and is protected by the same magic that protects the 3 eyed Ravens home
Click to expand...
Yup Coldhands says something to that effect to Sam doesn't he? Or was it Martin? That Coldhands cannot pass through the magic of the wall. Which adds to the theories..

#14 - Who is Coldhands? #14a - Is it Benjin Stark?
 
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T.M.P. said:
Yup Coldhands says something to that effect to Sam doesn't he? Or was it Martin? That Coldhands cannot pass through the magic of the wall. Which adds to the theories..

#14 - Who is Coldhands? #14a - Is it Benjin Stark?
Click to expand...
I thought that was established for the most part. Don't the Starks have Others blood in them from ancient times? Thought I read that in the book recently. It would explain why Benjin didn't completely zombify. Of course he isn't on the show and may never be.

And yes the Wall had spells placed on it so they couldn't go through. Not sure about dragons though.
 
burnthemallralphie said:
"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow. ” - Melisandre's thoughts in ADWD.
Click to expand...

"born amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons from stone"

"What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years."

"Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it."

~ Master Aemon to Sam.

From GOT wiki...
Daenerys was born on Dragonstone, an island in the narrow sea ("amidst salt"), and reborn as the Mother of Dragons on Khal Drogo's burning funeral pyre ("amidst smoke"). On that pyre her three petrified dragon eggs hatched ("born amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons from stone"), and on that morning for the first time the Red Comet appeared in the sky ("When the stars bleed...").

The Red Witch has been far from accurate on some of her predictions. See Winterfell.
 
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IUhottie said:
I thought that was established for the most part. Don't the Starks have Others blood in them from ancient times? Thought I read that in the book recently. It would explain why Benjin didn't completely zombify. Of course he isn't on the show and may never be.

And yes the Wall had spells placed on it so they couldn't go through. Not sure about dragons though.
Click to expand...
Maybe not Others, unless they are the "First Men"? Right? Unless the Others are First Men?
 
T.M.P. said:
Which is possible, most people think those two prophecies are about the same person. I'm not so sure anymore. Need to dig further into that.
Click to expand...
There's a lot to that as well... That instead of being reborn as Azor Ahia, Jon will be reborn as the King of Forever winter/white walkers or at least their champion. There's a lot of great theory videos on YouTube
 
Question as a viewer but non-reader of the books: What's leading to so much of this being speculation and not more concrete?

Are the books left ambiguous and open to interpretation? Is the show deviating from the source material? Or are we approaching the end of the published source material and we're waiting for Martin to crank out another book to get answers? Or some combination of these?
 
HA2740 said:
Question as a viewer but non-reader of the books: What's leading to so much of this being speculation and not more concrete?

Are the books left ambiguous and open to interpretation? Is the show deviating from the source material? Or are we approaching the end of the published source material and we're waiting for Martin to crank out another book to get answers? Or some combination of these?
Click to expand...
Most of the theories are based on prophecy, dreams, and the like. The show has for the most part ignored the back story completely.
 
HA2740 said:
Question as a viewer but non-reader of the books: What's leading to so much of this being speculation and not more concrete?

Are the books left ambiguous and open to interpretation? Is the show deviating from the source material? Or are we approaching the end of the published source material and we're waiting for Martin to crank out another book to get answers? Or some combination of these?
Click to expand...
The show is the hot dog to the books books t-bone....
They gloss over and leave out more characters than they put in... And pretty major characters from the books. They left out probably 2/3 of books 4/5 to make it into 1 season?
Books 4/5 were the 2 of the longest (I think 3 is the longest) and they made it into 1 season. Until this point they'd made almost 1/1 book to season... Actually broke book 3 into 2 seasons
Much more sorcery, magic, magical creatures, places, and people than the show could ever cover
 
patrick593 said:
The show is the hot dog to the books books t-bone....
They gloss over and leave out more characters than they put in... And pretty major characters from the books. They left out probably 2/3 of books 4/5 to make it into 1 season?
Books 4/5 were the 2 of the longest (I think 3 is the longest) and they made it into 1 season. Until this point they'd made almost 1/1 book to season... Actually broke book 3 into 2 seasons
Much more sorcery, magic, magical creatures, places, and people than the show could ever cover
Click to expand...
Such as Cersei's walk of shame was at the end of book 4 and they stuffed that into all that was part of the last episode of the season. I thought they were going to leave out Jon's ending because of it because I didn't think they would have enough time. They really should have made it a 2 hour episode. Jon deserved more coverage than he received.
 
T.M.P. said:
If you haven't watched the last episode, read no further.
..........................................................................................................................................................................

Please add (or correct) any theory I've missed... most are related to the book.

#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

#2 - Who is the Azor Azai? #2a - Who is the Prince That Was Promised? #2b - Are the Prince That Was Promised and Azor Azai the same.

#3 - Sansa and Reek? Alive? What's going to happen to/with them? #3a - Was it all a ploy by Ramsey and Reek is just playing out an elaborate mind f' on Sansa?

#4 - Who are the 3 riders of the 3 dragons? Are there 3 riders, or was Dany's dream pointing to something else?

#5 - Was Tywin really Tyrion's father? Is Tyrion part Targ? #5a - Is Tyrion destined to train the dragons?

#6 - Who is the Queen that is younger and more beautiful that will take Cersei down?

#7 - Wtf is Arya doing? It's obvious she will never be no one. The girl is not ready..

#8 - Is Stannis alive? #8a - Will he kill the red witch?

#9 - Will Bran become a tree? WTF is his role? #9a - Where is Rickon?

#10 - Will the horde that surrounds Dany join her?

#11 - Are there Ice dragons? #11a - Will Bran be the one to awaken them?

#12 - Who will kill Ramsey Bolton? (He needs to die a slow and very painful death)

#13 - What will Cersei do with the Un-Mountain? A 9' tall zombie makes her a bit intimidating. #13a Do un-peens work? #13b - What will she do to the Sparrows? (I kinda feel sorry for the woman that kept saying "shame". I wonder if she'll die by over exposure to un peen?)


So many questions. Who has the answers?
Click to expand...

Yes
 
T.M.P. said:
If you haven't watched the last episode, read no further.
..........................................................................................................................................................................

Please add (or correct) any theory I've missed... most are related to the book.

#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

#2 - Who is the Azor Azai? #2a - Who is the Prince That Was Promised? #2b - Are the Prince That Was Promised and Azor Azai the same.

#3 - Sansa and Reek? Alive? What's going to happen to/with them? #3a - Was it all a ploy by Ramsey and Reek is just playing out an elaborate mind f' on Sansa?

#4 - Who are the 3 riders of the 3 dragons? Are there 3 riders, or was Dany's dream pointing to something else?

#5 - Was Tywin really Tyrion's father? Is Tyrion part Targ? #5a - Is Tyrion destined to train the dragons?

#6 - Who is the Queen that is younger and more beautiful that will take Cersei down?

#7 - Wtf is Arya doing? It's obvious she will never be no one. The girl is not ready..

#8 - Is Stannis alive? #8a - Will he kill the red witch?

#9 - Will Bran become a tree? WTF is his role? #9a - Where is Rickon?

#10 - Will the horde that surrounds Dany join her?

#11 - Are there Ice dragons? #11a - Will Bran be the one to awaken them?

#12 - Who will kill Ramsey Bolton? (He needs to die a slow and very painful death)

#13 - What will Cersei do with the Un-Mountain? A 9' tall zombie makes her a bit intimidating. #13a Do un-peens work? #13b - What will she do to the Sparrows? (I kinda feel sorry for the woman that kept saying "shame". I wonder if she'll die by over exposure to un peen?)


So many questions. Who has the answers?
Click to expand...

What about the Gravedigger? Is the Gravedigger actually the Hound? Has he repented? Will he become the Faith's champion and prove himself to be the actual Valonqar by defeating the Mountain and condemning Cersei?
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
What about the Gravedigger? Is the Gravedigger actually the Hound? Has he repented? Will he become the Faith's champion and prove himself to be the actual Valonqar by defeating the Mountain and condemning Cersei?
Click to expand...

#15 and 15a.

I had forgotten about that. fwiw - It means younger brother. And, Cersei was born before Jamie.
 
IUhottie said:
Such as Cersei's walk of shame was at the end of book 4 and they stuffed that into all that was part of the last episode of the season. I thought they were going to leave out Jon's ending because of it because I didn't think they would have enough time. They really should have made it a 2 hour episode. Jon deserved more coverage than he received.
Click to expand...

Ho-hum. The walk of shame was lame. 'Walk naked to the Red Keep, and we will let you get all of your power back.' She won't be caught out again. Dude just signed his death warrant.

I thought the end of her walk should have ended in something severe as her penance for Lancel, like an involuntary mastectomy.
 
Moops said:
Ho-hum. The walk of shame was lame. 'Walk naked to the Red Keep, and we will let you get all of your power back.' She won't be caught out again. Dude just signed his death warrant.

I thought the end of her walk should have ended in something severe as her penance for Lancel, like an involuntary mastectomy.
Click to expand...
This season, well, it was done at too fast a pace. Watching older episodes, they had more depth and a better pace. This whole season was like the last five minutes of Star Wars episode 3. Hopefully after getting everyone in place, it starts slowing down a bit.
 
IUhottie said:
It's hard to speculate about some of it because it will just take too long on TV. Ramsay and Reek aren't trying to do anything to Sansa, I don't believe.

Dany is the queen that will replace Cersei. BTW what happened to the queen on the show? I now what happened in thhe book but they just kind of left her on the show.

They finally had Arya go blind. Maybe they will prove her a warg on the show like they did in the book.
Click to expand...
Where is Margeary? Wasn't she already freed by the time Cersei takes her walk? I don't remember much of 4 or 5.
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
What about the Gravedigger? Is the Gravedigger actually the Hound? Has he repented? Will he become the Faith's champion and prove himself to be the actual Valonqar by defeating the Mountain and condemning Cersei?
Click to expand...

The Gravedigger is absolutely the Hound. His horse is in the stables, he walks with a limp from the wounds he got from the Tickler.
 
OK, just finished watching......and really have no real idea WTF is going on.....the only thing that shocked me was the end......

#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

No idea who his parents are. I expected him to be a key player. If he's not dead, then I'm not sure I like the direction this thing is going.

#2 - Who is the Azor Azai? #2a - Who is the Prince That Was Promised? #2b - Are the Prince That Was Promised and Azor Azai the same.

No idea.

#3 - Sansa and Reek? Alive? What's going to happen to/with them? #3a - Was it all a ploy by Ramsey and Reek is just playing out an elaborate mind f' on Sansa?

No doubt they are alive. I think this is Reek's first step forward.

#4 - Who are the 3 riders of the 3 dragons? Are there 3 riders, or was Dany's dream pointing to something else?

No idea, but I will go with Blondie, Zombie Snow and Bran.

#5 - Was Tywin really Tyrion's father? Is Tyrion part Targ? #5a - Is Tyrion destined to train the dragons?

I say no, not Tywin's son. No idea if he's a Targ and yes he will train the dragons.

#6 - Who is the Queen that is younger and more beautiful that will take Cersei down?

Cap?

#7 - Wtf is Arya doing? It's obvious she will never be no one. The girl is not ready..

Arya disturbs me right now, WTF are they doing to her? Maybe she will be a dragon jockey.

#8 - Is Stannis alive? #8a - Will he kill the red witch?

I hope not. Brienne had to have killed him, but it's possible.

#9 - Will Bran become a tree? WTF is his role? #9a - Where is Rickon?

Bran is a complete mystery to me at this point.

#10 - Will the horde that surrounds Dany join her?

I'm betting yes.

#11 - Are there Ice dragons? #11a - Will Bran be the one to awaken them?

No and No.

#12 - Who will kill Ramsey Bolton? (He needs to die a slow and very painful death)

Reek

#13 - What will Cersei do with the Un-Mountain? A 9' tall zombie makes her a bit intimidating. #13a Do un-peens work? #13b - What will she do to the Sparrows? (I kinda feel sorry for the woman that kept saying "shame". I wonder if she'll die by over exposure to un peen?)

Use him to kill many, then she will die.
 
T.M.P. said:
Who has the answers?
Click to expand...

I'm going to go ahead and say this guy...
2d5ae7a8f62d16f18450fee7dee7c9b1.jpg
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
I think the key is that the witch never said it was her younger brother. The Hound is also a younger brother.
Click to expand...

Yup. That's the two theories, and both seem very plausible story wise.

I can see Sandor's redemption as taking down the Mountain, it fits, but not as much Cersei. He really never had an issue with her. I can also as easily see Jamie strangling his sister.

It's also quite possible that both happen. Dog takes down the Mountain and Jamie strangles his sister. As long as someone strangles her, after she kills all the religious whack jobs, I'll be happy .
 
T.M.P. said:
Yup. That's the two theories, and both seem very plausible story wise.

I can see Sandor's redemption as taking down the Mountain, it fits, but not as much Cersei. He really never had an issue with her. I can also as easily see Jamie strangling his sister.

It's also quite possible that both happen. Dog takes down the Mountain and Jamie strangles his sister. As long as someone strangles her, after she kills all the religious whack jobs, I'll be happy .
Click to expand...
Didn't we leave the hound pretty much done for? How many people they going to bring back? I don't think he's Alive. Just too many "not deads"
 
Patrick have you read the books? The Gravedigger is almost obviously Sandor. One, his horse is in the Stable on the island with the Septon. The books mention several times that only Sandor could ride or lead Stranger. Two, Sandor was injured in his leg, and Arya leaves him dying from fever and possibly gangrene at the Trident; the Gravedigger is lame (which is why I do not see him coming back in the series to kill the Mountain). Three, the book mentions he is bigger than Brienne by a lot, and Brienne does not see his face when she is speaking to the Septon. Martin practically clubs you over the head in that chapter with clues that the Gravedigger is Sandor Cleagane.
 
#1 - Who are Jon's true parents. #1a - Is he the true heir to the Iron Throne?? #1b - Is he even alive? Or is he dead and will be resurrected? Or is he done?

I do believe he is the son of Rheager and Lyanna. There's way too many circumstances to not believe it. If he isn't, all of it was a waste of time and type. So yes, he is most likely the true heir.

I posted highlights below but look it up on one of many fan sites for the reasons why or why not. There's people on there that obsess on this like Shooter does Brady's balls. So expect some lengthy sometimes informative, sometimes insanely informative, and sometimes just insane, theories.. And there's no reason the show watchers shouldn't know this stuff.

But I'm not absolutely sure he's still alive. How pissed will people be if he wrote Jon as the true heir and then kills him before Jon or anyone realizes it? Martin still has Dany to fill the role of main protagonist (if there is such a thing in this book) or the Targ Ruler, and she has a legit claim. Does he really need Jon?

I was positive in the book he alive. He says "Ghost". We know he's been warging. Mel being there and near by. The Wildings also being near by."He didn't feel the fourth knife only cold". After seeing it, I've developed a little bit of doubt. If anyone saves him in the show, it will now be the Onion Knight, and Ghost, instead of Wildings and a Giant..

There's also speculation that the cold he feels is as Ghost because he's already warged, or that the cold he feels is because The Others are attacking.

For now I'm gong to guess yes, and go with the normal theory that he warged nto Ghost, and will be turned into un-Jon by Mel but I have to admit, I believe that is the weakest path and will be disappointed. Too many un-characters already.

If I had my wish, he would be dead, but I'm not sure Martin has the balls to do it. (No shooter. Different balls.) If not dead then just wounded, badly, and in a coma where he only exists as Ghost for season. Or something like that. Resurrection is a very weak plot device.

From Got-wiki again. Edited..
  • At the end of Robert's Rebellion, Eddard and his companions find three of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy: (they must be guarding something important) There is a battle. The only known survivors were Eddard and Howland Reed. Eddard recalls his sister dying "in a bed of blood," where he made her an unknown promise before she died.(Mirri Maz Duur says she knows the secrets of the 'bloody bed,' meaning birthing.)
  • All the Starks Direwolves are described having dark fur. Ghost is white - a color oft associated with Targaryen features.
  • Ned contemplates the significance of King Robert's bastards. As he muses, Ned's thoughts drift to Jon Snow, a logical segue, but also to his sister Lyanna Stark, the promise he made her, and to Rhaegar Targaryen, implying some tacit link between the three individuals.
  • Daenerys Targaryen's visions in the House of the Undying include an image of Rhaegar with his newborn son Aegon, proclaiming that "there must be a third" because "the dragon has three heads". According to Jon Connington, Rhaegar's wife Elia was believed infertile after two difficult pregnancies, and that Aegon the Conqueror himself had two wives, it is logical for Rhaegar to have attempted to fulfill the prophecy by having a third child with another woman.
  • Another of the visions Daenerys sees is the image of a blue winter rose growing in a wall of ice. Lyanna was noted by Ned to be fond of winter roses, and he associates them with her death. Jon, is currently at the Wall. (A Winter Rose was given to Lyanna at Harrenhall by Rhaegar)
 
Last edited:
patrick593 said:
Didn't we leave the hound pretty much done for? How many people they going to bring back? I don't think he's Alive. Just too many "not deads"
Click to expand...
He wasn't dead when Arya left him. Later IIRC Brienne(?) sees the gravedigger. He bends down to pet a dog. It's implied (somehow?) he is at peace.

I think he's alive. If he has anything else to do in this tale, I'm not sure. Maybe leaving him at peace is best.
 
T.M.P. said:
He wasn't dead when Arya left him. Later IIRC Brienne(?) sees the gravedigger. He bends down to pet a dog. It's implied (somehow?) he is at peace.

I think he's alive. If he has anything else to do in this tale, I'm not sure. Maybe leaving him at peace is best.
Click to expand...
I don't remember that part. I need to do book 4 and 5 again... like I said by the end I was really confused
 
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