Going Cheap on OC?

[TomEric4756]

From Hoosier Huddle … And presumably an IUFB fan?

http://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-blog/ohio-state-pulls-away-for-23-3-win-over-hoosiers/2023/9/2

Realist 14 hours ago · 0 Likes

I was upset last year when IU hired Walt Bell not because he was a successful OC but because he was cheap. This is the result. IU just gave Woodson a $1MM unsolicited raise while Tom Allen pays part of Walt Bell's $700k salary. No other Big Ten school would do that to their football program. Its hard to keep supporting a team that isn't supported by the administration. The defense was very good. The d line out played the Ohio State line. Aaron Casey was a beast. But the offense never gave them a chance to win and IU is getting what it paid for.

 

[TomEric4756]

Assuming too cheap to win as the premise…

Perhaps the stronger argument is too cheap when Allen and the AD hired Sheridan…

The 5-Why quality technique says always dig deeper to find the true root cause of a problem.

I think this writer omitted the next step by not considering DeBoer’s replacement.

Regardless, It’s all water under the bridge at this point.

And the real question is what to do now.

 

[indy1203]

From Hoosier Huddle … And presumably an IUFB fan?

http://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-blog/ohio-state-pulls-away-for-23-3-win-over-hoosiers/2023/9/2

Realist 14 hours ago · 0 Likes

I was upset last year when IU hired Walt Bell not because he was a successful OC but because he was cheap. This is the result. IU just gave Woodson a $1MM unsolicited raise while Tom Allen pays part of Walt Bell's $700k salary. No other Big Ten school would do that to their football program. Its hard to keep supporting a team that isn't supported by the administration. The defense was very good. The d line out played the Ohio State line. Aaron Casey was a beast. But the offense never gave them a chance to win and IU is getting what it paid for.

Nobody has ever accused the IU administration of being smart.
Whoever heard of a B10 head coach having to pay part of
an assistant coach's salary? Typical bush league IU stuff.

 

[TomEric4756]

Nobody has ever accused the IU administration of being smart.
Whoever heard of a B10 head coach having to pay part of
an assistant coach's salary? Typical bush league IU stuff.

Well I’ll say, Allen’s gift to support Walt‘s salary was an act of good faith in penance for 2021 results, creating the need to replace Sheridan. Which then asks, did the AD not ask enough of Allen, or was the “budget” too inflexible?

But this supposes the perhaps unlikely assumption the more shopping money would have drawn better OC talent.

The question remains what do we do now.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Well I’ll say, Allen’s gift to support Walt‘s salary was an act of good faith in penance for 2021 results, creating the need to replace Sheridan. Which then asks, did the AD not ask enough of Allen, or was the “budget” too inflexible?

But this supposes the perhaps unlikely assumption the more shopping money would have drawn better OC talent.

The question remains what do we do now.

Scott continues a long line of AD department members who have been insulated and entrenched in IU’s backward culture of sports for decades. They don’t know any better because this is the only place they’ve ever been. They have zero outside perspective.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

https://www.si.com/college/olemiss/football/ole-miss-rebels-charlie-weis-jr-highest-paid-offensive-coordinators-college-football

People are really not smart.

Bell is the 23rd highest paid offensive coordinator in the nation.

We didn't go cheap. Was he a smart hire? That's up for debate, but please, please, I'm begging people to do a little research before they just throw stuff on the wall to get it to stick.

 

[CC Mac]

IU is a basketball first school,always has been and will always be.
Hence,we have worst winning percentage in college football history.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

IU is a basketball first school,always has been and will always be.
Hence,we have worst winning percentage in college football history.

Except first has turned into regular 5-9 place finishes. Too bad IU couldn’t figure out how to be Michigan State.

 

[Radio Zero]

Except first has turned into regular 5-9 place finishes. Too bad IU couldn’t figure out how to be Michigan State.

And that’s the sad joke of it all.

Basketball is in a state of long term decay, yet the freaks on the hoops forum talk as if the early 90’s are only a decade past.

Go to other schools’ forums. When the average fan rattles off a list of the blue bloods, IU is NEVER included. We figure in Kentucky fans’ minds, for historical reasons, but even then, we’re held up as an example of what *could* happen to UK if Calipari doesn’t get his head right.

It’s a joke.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Wonderfully smart analysis 🧐

 

[82hoosier]

As head coach of UMass Walt Bell had a record of two wins and 23 losses. He had the recently been fired as the head coach following a homecoming loss to University of Rhode Island. There were still three games to go in the season.

Tom Allen bailed UMass out but giving him a largerr salary as offensive coordinator than he was making his head coach of UMass. Incidentally, UMass gave a big raise to their next head coach who now runs the worst program in division 1.

You can't blame all of the Hoosiers offense problems on Walt Bell. After all he was stuck with Coach Hiller as the offensive line coach for four or five games before he was fired. And it was crystal clear Hiller should have been fired before last season even got started.

It did not help last year that the starting quarterback and the backup, who was a team co-captain, decided to transfer. Probably did not help that the highest rated recruit a year earlier decided that he'd rather be a wide receiver.

So Tom Allen responded this year by bringing in a red shirt freshman transfer to compete with another red shirt freshman for starting quarterback. We were told that the coaching staff decided to develop young talent as opposed to bringing in an experienced transfer. Does anybody believe that? I certainly didn't.

Look at Michael Penix!. He went from program savior to third string wash out to Heisman contender. Tuttle goes from team captain to Michigan backup. Connor Bazelak decided that anywhere would be better than Indiana and now he is struggling at Bowling Green. And the coaching staff decided not to bring in a true freshman or an experienced transfer this season? Right!

It is far more likely that nobody else in the country wanted to play for Indiana. I'm not bashing our quarterback room. But one has to consider the likelihood that the two of them will head towards the portal next season. And that is why Tom Allen should be willing to pay for a new offensive coordinator out of his own pocket. He certainly can afford it.

All he has to do is go 6-6 with the new offensive coordinator and he gets another $5 million payment added to his eventual severance. That's a no-brainer hire! Not to mention that by firing Bell he can blame all the problems that the offense has on somebody else - again.

 

[MMcCormick]

Bell is an average offensive coordinator who has a pretty good coaching staff surrounding him. By seasons end I think we'll have average results. Was not a fan of the hire. The crazy thing is we have a really good offensive coordinator already on staff. Rod Carey is a very good coordinator and he did a nice job with the line last year. If Bell has a mediocre year which I suspect he will, I would not be surprised to see Carey as offensive coordinator. It was strange not hiring him for that role instead of Bell to begin with. I think he wanted defensive experience rather than to be an OC but he'll have gotten that this year.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

From Hoosier Huddle … And presumably an IUFB fan?

http://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-blog/ohio-state-pulls-away-for-23-3-win-over-hoosiers/2023/9/2

Realist 14 hours ago · 0 Likes

I was upset last year when IU hired Walt Bell not because he was a successful OC but because he was cheap. This is the result. IU just gave Woodson a $1MM unsolicited raise while Tom Allen pays part of Walt Bell's $700k salary. No other Big Ten school would do that to their football program. Its hard to keep supporting a team that isn't supported by the administration. The defense was very good. The d line out played the Ohio State line. Aaron Casey was a beast. But the offense never gave them a chance to win and IU is getting what it paid for.

What a stupid point about pay. Walt Bell is trash and doesn't even deserve half that

 

[TomEric4756]

https://www.si.com/college/olemiss/football/ole-miss-rebels-charlie-weis-jr-highest-paid-offensive-coordinators-college-football

People are really not smart.

Bell is the 23rd highest paid offensive coordinator in the nation.

We didn't go cheap. Was he a smart hire? That's up for debate, but please, please, I'm begging people to do a little research before they just throw stuff on the wall to get it to stick.

So you’re saying the premise is false …. Therefore all conclusions are presumed to be false.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

As head coach of UMass Walt Bell had a record of two wins and 23 losses. He had the recently been fired as the head coach following a homecoming loss to University of Rhode Island. There were still three games to go in the season.

Tom Allen bailed UMass out but giving him a largerr salary as offensive coordinator than he was making his head coach of UMass. Incidentally, UMass gave a big raise to their next head coach who now runs the worst program in division 1.

You can't blame all of the Hoosiers offense problems on Walt Bell. After all he was stuck with Coach Hiller as the offensive line coach for four or five games before he was fired. And it was crystal clear Hiller should have been fired before last season even got started.

It did not help last year that the starting quarterback and the backup, who was a team co-captain, decided to transfer. Probably did not help that the highest rated recruit a year earlier decided that he'd rather be a wide receiver.

So Tom Allen responded this year by bringing in a red shirt freshman transfer to compete with another red shirt freshman for starting quarterback. We were told that the coaching staff decided to develop young talent as opposed to bringing in an experienced transfer. Does anybody believe that? I certainly didn't.

Look at Michael Penix!. He went from program savior to third string wash out to Heisman contender. Tuttle goes from team captain to Michigan backup. Connor Bazelak decided that anywhere would be better than Indiana and now he is struggling at Bowling Green. And the coaching staff decided not to bring in a true freshman or an experienced transfer this season? Right!

It is far more likely that nobody else in the country wanted to play for Indiana. I'm not bashing our quarterback room. But one has to consider the likelihood that the two of them will head towards the portal next season. And that is why Tom Allen should be willing to pay for a new offensive coordinator out of his own pocket. He certainly can afford it.

All he has to do is go 6-6 with the new offensive coordinator and he gets another $5 million payment added to his eventual severance. That's a no-brainer hire! Not to mention that by firing Bell he can blame all the problems that the offense has on somebody else - again.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

As head coach of UMass Walt Bell had a record of two wins and 23 losses. He had the recently been fired as the head coach following a homecoming loss to University of Rhode Island. There were still three games to go in the season.

Tom Allen bailed UMass out but giving him a largerr salary as offensive coordinator than he was making his head coach of UMass. Incidentally, UMass gave a big raise to their next head coach who now runs the worst program in division 1.

You can't blame all of the Hoosiers offense problems on Walt Bell. After all he was stuck with Coach Hiller as the offensive line coach for four or five games before he was fired. And it was crystal clear Hiller should have been fired before last season even got started.

It did not help last year that the starting quarterback and the backup, who was a team co-captain, decided to transfer. Probably did not help that the highest rated recruit a year earlier decided that he'd rather be a wide receiver.

So Tom Allen responded this year by bringing in a red shirt freshman transfer to compete with another red shirt freshman for starting quarterback. We were told that the coaching staff decided to develop young talent as opposed to bringing in an experienced transfer. Does anybody believe that? I certainly didn't.

Look at Michael Penix!. He went from program savior to third string wash out to Heisman contender. Tuttle goes from team captain to Michigan backup. Connor Bazelak decided that anywhere would be better than Indiana and now he is struggling at Bowling Green. And the coaching staff decided not to bring in a true freshman or an experienced transfer this season? Right!

It is far more likely that nobody else in the country wanted to play for Indiana. I'm not bashing our quarterback room. But one has to consider the likelihood that the two of them will head towards the portal next season. And that is why Tom Allen should be willing to pay for a new offensive coordinator out of his own pocket. He certainly can afford it.

All he has to do is go 6-6 with the new offensive coordinator and he gets another $5 million payment added to his eventual severance. That's a no-brainer hire! Not to mention that by firing Bell he can blame all the problems that the offense has on somebody else - again.

Clipboard Jack’s stats from yesterday in the Michigan win:

0-0. 000 yds. 00 INT. 0 TDs
Clipboard drops = 2

A.J. Barner? 00 rec. 000 yards 0 TDs

With the game well in-hand, neither even got in.

Bazelek? Let’s take a trip down memory lane with his BGSU highlight yesterday. Look familiar?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

So you’re saying the premise is false …. Therefore all conclusions are presumed to be false.

I'm saying the statement of Bell being a cheap hire money wise isn't factual.

Mike Woodson, from what I read, had that raise built in his contract. He's still making less then Tom Allen. Allen is the first football coach that I can remember (I'm young though so I could be wrong) that is making more then the basketball coach.

 

[TomEric4756]

From Hoosier Huddle … And presumably an IUFB fan?

http://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-blog/ohio-state-pulls-away-for-23-3-win-over-hoosiers/2023/9/2

Realist 14 hours ago · 0 Likes

I was upset last year when IU hired Walt Bell not because he was a successful OC but because he was cheap. This is the result. IU just gave Woodson a $1MM unsolicited raise while Tom Allen pays part of Walt Bell's $700k salary. No other Big Ten school would do that to their football program. Its hard to keep supporting a team that isn't supported by the administration. The defense was very good. The d line out played the Ohio State line. Aaron Casey was a beast. But the offense never gave them a chance to win and IU is getting what it paid for.

To be sure, I am not Realist, for those wondering. Just thought the quoted post would make good discussion fodder.

 

[vesuvius13]

Clipboard Jack’s stats from yesterday in the Michigan win:

0-0. 000 yds. 00 INT. 0 TDs
Clipboard drops = 2

A.J. Barner? 00 rec. 000 yards 0 TDs

With the game well in-hand, neither even got in.

Bazelek? Let’s take a trip down memory lane with his BGSU highlight yesterday. Look familiar?

View embedded media

Clipboard Jack’s stats from yesterday in the Michigan win:

0-0. 000 yds. 00 INT. 0 TDs
Clipboard drops = 2

A.J. Barner? 00 rec. 000 yards 0 TDs

With the game well in-hand, neither even got in.

Bazelek? Let’s take a trip down memory lane with his BGSU highlight yesterday. Look familiar?

View embedded media

There can be no excuse of a bad OL for him on this play, he just overthrows passes like we saw so often.

 

[1julian]

IU does not have the beef of front or the skilled players needed to score on OSU. Until something happens and IU is able to recruit better offensive players, I don't see the team being competitive with the Top 50 teams!

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

IU does not have the beef of front or the skilled players needed to score on OSU. Until something happens and IU is able to recruit better offensive players, I don't see the team being competitive with the Top 50 teams!

Dumb. Just dumb.

 

[td75]

This is exactly why you'll never see me support iu basketball. No sir, I don't play that game.

With moves like this, you will have a rift in the fan base. That should come as no surprise to anyone with common sense.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

https://www.si.com/college/olemiss/football/ole-miss-rebels-charlie-weis-jr-highest-paid-offensive-coordinators-college-football

People are really not smart.

Bell is the 23rd highest paid offensive coordinator in the nation.

We didn't go cheap. Was he a smart hire? That's up for debate, but please, please, I'm begging people to do a little research before they just throw stuff on the wall to get it to stick.

Was wondering about that. His salary doesn't seem that low at all. And since he was under contract it probably didn't need to be all that much. Truly an odd pick as a guy that hasn't done much of anything and moves around a lot.

After that performance, you get see our old QB and offensive coach scoring at will...

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Clipboard Jack’s stats from yesterday in the Michigan win:

0-0. 000 yds. 00 INT. 0 TDs
Clipboard drops = 2

A.J. Barner? 00 rec. 000 yards 0 TDs

With the game well in-hand, neither even got in.

Bazelek? Let’s take a trip down memory lane with his BGSU highlight yesterday. Look familiar?

View embedded media

Looked like he threw into quad coverage. Geesh

 

[TomEric4756]

I'm saying the statement of Bell being a cheap hire money wise isn't factual.

Mike Woodson, from what I read, had that raise built in his contract. He's still making less then Tom Allen. Allen is the first football coach that I can remember (I'm young though so I could be wrong) that is making more then the basketball coach.

I’m confident CRMK made more than Coach Corso … but National Championship aspirations then were perhaps worth it. … After Sampson … IU lIkely overpaid MBB head coaches for the value received.

I had no problem with Woody’s pay raise — the recruiting buzz, says playing for IU is a destination again.

 

[Shuski]

This is exactly why you'll never see me support iu basketball. No sir, I don't play that game.

With moves like this, you will have a rift in the fan base. That should come as no surprise to anyone with common sense.

TD you can do better than that.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

TD you can do better than that.

No. He can’t.

 

[td75]

TD you can do better than that.

No. He can’t.

I'm not the one responsible for the division. They need to do better, not the diehard football people like me.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I'm saying the statement of Bell being a cheap hire money wise isn't factual.

Mike Woodson, from what I read, had that raise built in his contract. He's still making less then Tom Allen. Allen is the first football coach that I can remember (I'm young though so I could be wrong) that is making more then the basketball coach.

There is not a single basketball coach in this conference making more than its football coach. None. That includes the Dean of the conference, Tom Izzo.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

There is not a single basketball coach in this conference making more than its football coach. None. That includes the Dean of the conference, Tom Izzpoverty.

Up until Tom Allen took over, our basketball coaches were making way more than our football coaches were.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I’m confident CRMK made more than Coach Corso … but National Championship aspirations then were perhaps worth it. … After Sampson … IU lIkely overpaid MBB head coaches for the value received.

I had no problem with Woody’s pay raise — the recruiting buzz, says playing for IU is a destination again.

Basketball makes maybe 1/3 profit compared to what football brings in, so there should be no point in time going forward where the basketball coach makes more then the football coach does if we want to be serious about football.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Up until Tom Allen took over, our basketball coaches were making way more than our football coaches were.

Right….which is exactly the type of dumbassery our athletic gurus have done for decades. It’s worked so well that all the “football schools” in the conference blew by IU in basketball decades ago. IU basketball is, on average, a 5-9 place finisher in basketball. Genius strategy, if IU was a basketball destination, it could have hired someone other than a 63 year old guy with no college coaching experience. Absolutely speaks volumes about the state of IU athletics.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Looked like he threw into quad coverage. Geesh

And missed the wide open TE on a crossing route on that play. Locks onto one guy and throws to him, even if in triple coverage.

Liberty does not eff around with football. It’s Jerry Fallwell’s university and they are “all in” on football. The whole university supports it. They have 48,000 undergrad students. Coaching hires there have been smart hires.

 

[vesuvius13]

Washington is paying their OC $2million and despite IU being so backwards they need to do this to bring in the best OC. If I were coach Allen I would tell Dolson I would contribute $1million but he needs to come up with the other $1million. With a HC that needs a top OC IU has to come up with the money for OC to bring in a top OC.

 

[td75]

Washington is paying their OC $2million and despite IU being so backwards they need to do this to bring in the best OC. If I were coach Allen I would tell Dolson I would contribute $1million but he needs to come up with the other $1million. With a HC that needs a top OC IU has to come up with the money for OC to bring in a top OC.

Dolson is a LOUSY athletic director. He made Allen cough up the buyout of Nick Sheridan and now we hear that Allen pays a portion of Bell's salary??? You've got to be kidding me!!??

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Washington is paying their OC $2million and despite IU being so backwards they need to do this to bring in the best OC. If I were coach Allen I would tell Dolson I would contribute $1million but he needs to come up with the other $1million. With a HC that needs a top OC IU has to come up with the money for OC to bring in a top OC.

I’ve said this previously but Allen and Bell are the final package here. If one goes, they are both gone. This is it. No more chances.
This is Allen’s 4th OC in 7 years.
And people wonder what the offensive identity is?

How the hell do you have an offensive identity when you have a new OC every couple of seasons?

 

[Shuski]

Dolson is a LOUSY athletic director. He made Allen cough up the buyout of Nick Sheridan and now we hear that Allen pays a portion of Bell's salary??? You've got to be kidding me!!??

I disagree I think Dolson is doing a good job better than I originally expected. Maybe you don't like but what specifically has he done. That was Tom Allens decision not Dolson's . He gave up part of his salary to pay more for assistants. You may not like Woodson but I think he is doing good things to bring back Hoosiers in basketball. We have improved Moren's pay. The soccer program is solid with Yeagley, swimming with Looze. They finally are actually looking at truly making the fan experience better at Memorial Stadium. I answered survey did you. The last 15 years were the first time our athletic department had invested almost anything to upgrade or get good facilities for our teams. The 30 years before that there were no improvements to facilities and that I blame on the old administrations.

 

[vesuvius13]

I disagree I think Dolson is doing a good job better than I originally expected. Maybe you don't like but what specifically has he done. That was Tom Allens decision not Dolson's . He gave up part of his salary to pay more for assistants. You may not like Woodson but I think he is doing good things to bring back Hoosiers in basketball. We have improved Moren's pay. The soccer program is solid with Yeagley, swimming with Looze. They finally are actually looking at truly making the fan experience better at Memorial Stadium. I answered survey did you. The last 15 years were the first time our athletic department had invested almost anything to upgrade or get good facilities for our teams. The 30 years before that there were no improvements to facilities and that I blame on the old administrations.

He said when he was hired he would support football but he hasn't and I am sick of IU hiring people in lying about that they would do. He is spending money on other things and not football or working on people to donate to NIL for football.

 

[kmathum]

I disagree I think Dolson is doing a good job better than I originally expected. Maybe you don't like but what specifically has he done. That was Tom Allens decision not Dolson's . He gave up part of his salary to pay more for assistants. You may not like Woodson but I think he is doing good things to bring back Hoosiers in basketball. We have improved Moren's pay. The soccer program is solid with Yeagley, swimming with Looze. They finally are actually looking at truly making the fan experience better at Memorial Stadium. I answered survey did you. The last 15 years were the first time our athletic department had invested almost anything to upgrade or get good facilities for our teams. The 30 years before that there were no improvements to facilities and that I blame on the old administrations.

You've GOT to be kidding. I must have missed the DWS. As far as upgrading the facilities. That was Greenspan and glass.

 

[Shuski]

I respect your opinion almost most anymore and understand that we have still not done enough in football. Small baby steps are being made like football only weight room which a lot of recruits did not like in the past. I am a 24/7 sports guy so I definitely have a different opinion than many on here. I have been going to games since 1976 my freshman year and have had seasons tickets 38 out of the last 39 years. I also have basketball both men and womens season tickets. I enjoy the IU sports that are shown on the Big Ten network and have enjoyed both soccer teams, volleyball, baseball and softball games.

While I am not about all keeping up with the Joneses i do think we need to a better job on NIL for football and we need to replace or vastly improve the Mellencamp facility. We also need to carry through on some of the things that the survey we got about football stadium and game experience. I don't k,now that I will live long enought to see any of those but future fans will enjoy iF Dolson gets some of those things done.

Lets go Hoosiers we better cut the trees off at the stump since I live in Terre Haute. 42-7 Hoosiers tomorrow night.