Finish this sentence: For Indiana to have a successful season......

[fpeaugh]

Let Archie build his program. After reading your post, I took the time to research the first 3 years of records that the coaches had at the S16 programs. UNC, UK and Gonzaga achieved success right away. Here are how the other 13 coaches/teams did the first three years at the school:

Duke, Coach K: 17-13.10-17, 11-17.
Virginia, TBennett: 15-16, 16-17, 22-10.
MSU, TIzzo: 16-16, 17-12, 22-8.
Michigan, JBeilein: 10-22, 21-14, 15-17.
TexTech, CBeard: 18-14, 27-10, 31-7.
Tennessee, RBarnes: 18-19, 16-16, 26-9.
Purdue, MPainter: 9-19, 22-12, 25-9.
FSU, LHamilton: 14-15, 19-14, 12-19.
Houston, KSampson: 13-19, 22-10, 21-11.
Auburn, BPearl: 15-20, 11-20, 18-14.
LSU, WWade: 18-15, 25-5
Oregon, DAltman: 21-18, 24-10(NIT), 28-9
VaTech, BWilliams: 11-22, 20-15, 22-11

Most of the above coaches, including Archie, had great success at other schools. These coaches then arrived at their current schools to build their program. The above overwhelmingly show, at least to me, that coaches need time to build a program. The negative crowd out there just might be wrong?

If I made this list of coaches who started slow and failed over that time period it would be 2,000 rows long. What’s your point? Is there a chance Archie pulls a rabbit out of his backside and is a 1 in 500 guy? Statistically yes. Is it probable? About as probable as me getting bit by a shark in Indiana this afternoon.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

To have a successful season we’re going to need a couple guys to make huge, unexpected jumps in the offseason. This year we’re projected to have far less talent with the same coaching as we did last year. The only thing that can save us is for guys like Green, Davis, Smith, etc to make huge jumps in the off-season. Otherwise it’s going to get very, very ugly this year. Booing and empty seats like Crean’s Final year.

Never. Change. In. Posting. A real man that tells it like it is.

 

[PranksterMary]

I remember when Gene Smithson was the coach at Illinois state, the fans loved him and his high scoring, fast-break offense. When he was replaced by Bob Donewald (gee, I wonder whose tree he came from), the fans were very critical, mainly because of the sudden drop off in offense...that is, until they started winning those lower scoring games.

If you remember that era and those teams, then you should remember what happened to Smithson at WSU and what happened to ISU under BD. You probably should’ve found a better example that supported your position, rather than one that contradicted it. Not surprised you couldn’t get this correct.

 

[jimmygoiu]

If I made this list of coaches who started slow and failed over that time period it would be 2,000 rows long. What’s your point? Is there a chance Archie pulls a rabbit out of his backside and is a 1 in 500 guy? Statistically yes. Is it probable? About as probable as me getting bit by a shark in Indiana this afternoon.

I pointed out and stated quite clearly, that these are the first 3 years records of the coaches at their current teams that achieved the SWEET16 in 2019. The current successful coaches, at least half of whom needed 3 or more years to establish a solid program. Many of these are coaches that are nationally recognized at the top of their field. You just don't read well, or ignore posts that conflict with your negative agenda.

 

[IndyResident16]

That, alone, tells you where this team is.

Why? He’s one of the highest rated recruits on the team, you don’t think his health impacts IU’s ceiling?

 

[PranksterMary]

Why? He’s one of the highest rated recruits on the team, you don’t think his health impacts IU’s ceiling?

He’s had a significant injury / medical condition and hasn’t played in two years. His high school rating is meaningless compared to his time away from competition. Even if he’s cleared tomorrow, which he won’t be, staking IU’s season on his ability to make any kind of meaningful contribution is foolish. The hype machine among some fans is comical.

 

[IndyResident16]

My post wasn't an endorsement of Crean. I was calling B.S. on "IU's?I'm fine" claim that our offense wasn't that good because we have players with low basketball I.Q.'s. Also, you don't have to have a high scoring offense to be an elite team. You do have to be extremely efficient (if you are going to slow it down), for example Virginia this year. Archie hasn't had either type of offense, in his career, so far.

You just contradicted yourself dumbass. It takes a collection of high IQ players to run an efficient offense, hence the term “values possessions”. Crean’s offense was predicated on possessions and tempo, hence more turnovers/quick shots. You could afford some of those when you got 80 possessions a game. When you run an offensive system like Archie or Bennett or Beard it requires guys to not only take care of the basketball, but take smart, efficient shots. Archie has been playing with predominantly Crean era players/recruits not used to that kind of philosophy.

 

[cryano]

Let Archie build his program. After reading your post, I took the time to research the first 3 years of records that the coaches had at the S16 programs. UNC, UK and Gonzaga achieved success right away. Here are how the other 13 coaches/teams did the first three years at the school:

Duke, Coach K: 17-13.10-17, 11-17.
Virginia, TBennett: 15-16, 16-17, 22-10.
MSU, TIzzo: 16-16, 17-12, 22-8.
Michigan, JBeilein: 10-22, 21-14, 15-17.
TexTech, CBeard: 18-14, 27-10, 31-7.
Tennessee, RBarnes: 18-19, 16-16, 26-9.
Purdue, MPainter: 9-19, 22-12, 25-9.
FSU, LHamilton: 14-15, 19-14, 12-19.
Houston, KSampson: 13-19, 22-10, 21-11.
Auburn, BPearl: 15-20, 11-20, 18-14.
LSU, WWade: 18-15, 25-5
Oregon, DAltman: 21-18, 24-10(NIT), 28-9
VaTech, BWilliams: 11-22, 20-15, 22-11

Most of the above coaches, including Archie, had great success at other schools. These coaches then arrived at their current schools to build their program. The above overwhelmingly show, at least to me, that coaches need time to build a program. The negative crowd out there just might be wrong?

Like on the other thread - 8 of these coaches significantly improved from Year 1 to Year 2.

Beilein - Baird - Painter - Hamilton - Sampson - Wade - Altman - Williams.

Archie has managed to put together back to back tourney missing seasons, w a combined record of the worst of Creans two seasons in his final 6 years...

 

[IndyResident16]

He’s had a significant injury / medical condition and hasn’t played in two years. His high school rating is meaningless compared to his time away from competition. Even if he’s cleared tomorrow, which he won’t be, staking IU’s season on his ability to make any kind of meaningful contribution is foolish. The hype machine among some fans is comical.

A healthy Jerome Hunter makes IU that much better of a team. What’s so hard to grasp?

 

[cryano]

You just contradicted yourself dumbass. It takes a collection of high IQ players to run an efficient offense, hence the term “values possessions”. Crean’s offense was predicated on possessions and tempo, hence more turnovers/quick shots. You could afford some of those when you got 80 possessions a game. When you run an offensive system like Archie or Bennett or Beard it requires guys to not only take care of the basketball, but take smart, efficient shots. Archie has been playing with predominantly Crean era players/recruits not used to that kind of philosophy.

Tell me which players were coached by Tom Crean?

 

[IndyResident16]

Tell me which players were coached by Tom Crean?

Robert Johnson/Josh Newkirk/De’Ron Davis/Devonte Green/Juwan Morgan (who wasn’t a shell of himself under Crean)

Players recruited by Crean: Al Durham/Justin Smith

Every single one of those guys has played significant minutes under Archie the last two years.

Really? You asked that question?

 

[cryano]

Robert Johnson/Josh Newkirk/De’Ron Davis/Devonte Green/Juwan Morgan (who wasn’t a shell of himself under Crean)

Players recruited by Crean: Al Durham/Justin Smith

Every single one of those guys has played significant minutes under Archie the last two years.

Really? You asked that question?

So last years disaster of a season had Morgan and Davis(who makes almost no offensive decision - other than catch ball and score easily), and Devonte Green.

That is all. Davis, Green, and Morgan had to be ‘untrained’ from 1 season of playing for Tom Crean.
Do you realize how many coaches these guys have played for and different styles in their lifetime w school/AAU/etc?

But you’re going to die in the hill for Archie saying Crean messed up the 3 guys he coached for one season? Thats the hill you want to die on?

 

[PranksterMary]

A healthy Jerome Hunter makes IU that much better of a team. What’s so hard to grasp?

A player you’ve never seen play who hasn’t been in competition since his senior year of high school, yet you know he’ll make IU “that much better of a team”? The hype machine continues. No wonder mediocrity reigns among so many of you.

 

[IndyResident16]

So last years disaster of a season had Morgan and Davis(who makes almost no offensive decision - other than catch ball and score easily), and Devonte Green.

That is all. Davis, Green, and Morgan had to be ‘untrained’ from 1 season of playing for Tom Crean.
Do you realize how many coaches these guys have played for and different styles in their lifetime w school/AAU/etc?

But you’re going to die in the hill for Archie saying Crean messed up the 3 guys he coached for one season? Thats the hill you want to die on?

Look at the night and day difference in PG play from last year to Archie’s first year. Phinisee as an 18 year old true freshman who was out for a month with a concussion had 94 assists to 41 turnovers, that’s almost a 2.5:1 ratio. Newkirk a 23 year old 5th yr Senior (Crean guy) had 86 assists to 57 turnovers, barely a 1.5 ratio. Morgan improved night and day under Archie. You’re naive if you don’t see how getting your own players to fit your system is crucial. Guys Archie recruited are performer better in his system than leftovers from the Crean era.

Morgan was perimeter oriented player under Crean that averaged 5 ppg his first two years. He became a 2x all-conference player under Miller when they decided to play through him in the post. I’m excited for someone like TJD who’s not only extremely more gifted, but also much bigger and athletic.

 

[snarlcakes]

You just contradicted yourself dumbass. It takes a collection of high IQ players to run an efficient offense, hence the term “values possessions”. Crean’s offense was predicated on possessions and tempo, hence more turnovers/quick shots. You could afford some of those when you got 80 possessions a game. When you run an offensive system like Archie or Bennett or Beard it requires guys to not only take care of the basketball, but take smart, efficient shots. Archie has been playing with predominantly Crean era players/recruits not used to that kind of philosophy.

No, it didn't you mental reject. I see you got bored trolling Purdue boards and defending rapist. Maybe you can run on over to the Penn State boards and make excuses for child molesters. I'm sure that would be a really fun afternoon for you.

 

[IndyResident16]

No, it didn't you mental reject. I see you got bored trolling Purdue boards and defending rapist. Maybe you can run on over to the Penn State boards and make excuses for child molesters. I'm sure that would be a really fun afternoon for you.

Thanks for acknowledging you’re a moron.

 

[IndyResident16]

No, it didn't you mental reject. I see you got bored trolling Purdue boards and defending rapist. Maybe you can run on over to the Penn State boards and make excuses for child molesters. I'm sure that would be a really fun afternoon for you.

Serious question; when has Tom Izzo ever raped somebody let alone been accused? I’m genuinely asking? Only person I’ve ever defended from MSU, is Tom Izzo and to date I’ve never known him to be accused of sexual assault. I do applaud your attempts trying to deflect your idiocy.

 

[snarlcakes]

Thanks for acknowledging you’re a moron.

You have an I.Q. in the double digits and still have brown streaks in your spider man underwear.

 

[snarlcakes]

Serious question; when has Tom Izzo ever raped somebody let alone been accused? I’m genuinely asking? Only person I’ve ever defended from MSU, is Tom Izzo and to date I’ve never known him to be accused of sexual assault. I do applaud your attempts trying to deflect your idiocy.

Nothing is genuine about you. You defended Payne. Izzo is just a piece of sh%t who looks the other way, because that's what POS do. Of course you don't see anything wrong with it, because you're also a POS.

 

[IndyResident16]

You have an I.Q. in the double digits and still have brown streaks in your spider man underwear.

They’re Batman and I’d take a double digit IQ over your single digit, brain mush, straw drinking ass any day of the week.

 

[IndyResident16]

Nothing is genuine about you. You defended Payne. Izzo is just a piece of sh%t who looks the other way, because that's what POS do. Of course you don't see anything wrong with it, because you're also a POS.

What did Payne do wrong?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

If I made this list of coaches who started slow and failed over that time period it would be 2,000 rows long. What’s your point? Is there a chance Archie pulls a rabbit out of his backside and is a 1 in 500 guy? Statistically yes. Is it probable? About as probable as me getting bit by a shark in Indiana this afternoon.

Do it. You’re nothing but bluster. You NEVER back up your assertions with data.

 

[ufo33]

You just contradicted yourself dumbass. It takes a collection of high IQ players to run an efficient offense, hence the term “values possessions”. Crean’s offense was predicated on possessions and tempo, hence more turnovers/quick shots. You could afford some of those when you got 80 possessions a game. When you run an offensive system like Archie or Bennett or Beard it requires guys to not only take care of the basketball, but take smart, efficient shots. Archie has been playing with predominantly Crean era players/recruits not used to that kind of philosophy.

That is one of the main issues on offense, along with lack of perimeter shooters.

 

[IndyResident16]

That is one of the main issues on offense, along with lack of perimeter shooters.

Perimeter shooting becomes less of an issue next year with Romeo and Morgan gone who attempted almost half of our 3pt attempts and combined went 28%. IU will have a legitimate front court presence and rotation next year with 6’11 Brunk, 6’10 Davis, and 6’9 TJD that IU can seriously play through and that helps out shooters like Green, Durham, and almost and assuredly improved Phinisee who combined to shoot for nearly 35% last year.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Perimeter shooting becomes less of an issue next year with Romeo and Morgan gone who attempted almost half of our 3pt attempts and combined went 28%. IU will have a legitimate front court presence and rotation next year with 6’11 Brunk, 6’10 Davis, and 6’9 TJD that IU can seriously play through and that helps out shooters like Green, Durham, and almost and assuredly improved Phinisee who combined to shoot for nearly 35% last year.

In theory you are correct, but the kids have to hit the shots and 1-2 have to play a lot stronger. Brunk and TJD haven't played a play.

 

[PranksterMary]

Coming from you Ordfan, that is rich. Google something else then post it and call yourself smart...lol

Troll. You’re just another non-IU attendee who knows nothing about the school or the basketball program. Go away, troll boy.

 

[MG80]

On paper, because of graduations, transfers and guys heading early to the League, the B1G appears to be a much weaker conference. Outside of Michigan State and maybe Maryland and Michigan, there will be a lot of wins available for IU, even without RL and JMO. Phinisee and Green are players; Race, Davis, TJD, and Brunk provide nice depth up front; and Al and Smith are useful parts. Anderson should be better. I’m not counting on Hunter, but if he can provide a solid 10-15 min/game, that’s a big talent and psychological plus. My guess is the team will be good enough, while playing in a much weaker league, to win four or five more games than last season and make the Tournament. And Archie will be a better coach too, right? At least that’s what I think.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Troll. You’re just another non-IU attendee who knows nothing about the school or the basketball program. Go away, troll boy.

lol you wish. Project much? Ordy...The King of all trolls here for years.

I wish you would have kept your sworn promise to never ever respond to another one of my posts after about the fifth time I popped your lie bubble.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Coming from you Ordfan, that is rich. Google something else then post it and call yourself smart...lol

He's a legend in his own mind . . .

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Troll. You’re just another non-IU attendee who knows nothing about the school or the basketball program. Go away, troll boy.

Ordfan - the KING of trolls - calling someone a troll. #IRONY

 

[PranksterMary]

lol you wish. Project much? Ordy...The King of all trolls here for years.

I wish you would have kept your sworn promise to never ever respond to another one of my posts after about the fifth time I popped your lie bubble.

Troll. I just looked at all your posts on the hoops forum, but none of them are about basketball. That’s the work of a troll. A non-IU troll, that is. Stop trying to convince anyone you know the first thing about the University we attended and that you didn’t. Go away troll boy.

 

[PranksterMary]

Ordfan - the KING of trolls - calling someone a troll. #IRONY

Your typical dodge when you can’t talk basketball. Just another non IU dope babbling about something you know nothing about. You keep arguing that mediocrity is fine. No IU fan does that.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Troll. I just looked at all your posts on the hoops forum, but none of them are about basketball. That’s the work of a troll. A non-IU troll, that is. Stop trying to convince anyone you know the first thing about the University we attended and that you didn’t. Go away troll boy.

You need a new act Ordy. This one is stale. You may get a pass from the mods due to summer, but you fool no one. You never set foot on campus.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Ordfan - the KING of trolls - calling someone a troll. #IRONY

Sometimes I think he actually believes his own babble. I think IUDanapoint may have been his finest troll hour.

 

[PranksterMary]

You need a new act Ordy. This one is stale. You may get a pass from the mods due to summer, but you fool no one. You never set foot on campus.

You’ve never been close to IU, troll boy. You’re lying if you say otherwise. Everyone knows it, troll boy.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

You’ve never been close to IU, troll boy. You’re lying if you say otherwise. Everyone knows it, troll boy.

My diploma, parking spots for FB and MBB, season FB and MBB tickets, yearly donations that exceed your income, Corp Board at the Frat, pay stub signed by Peter Yates, Foundation Certificates, IUDM award, IU Sing photos and bucket at Nick's say hello.

suck on that Ordy

 

[Wall2Boogie]

You’ve never been close to IU, troll boy. You’re lying if you say otherwise. Everyone knows it, troll boy.

My diploma, parking spots for FB and MBB, season FB and MBB tickets, yearly donations that exceed your income, Corp Board at the Frat, pay stub signed by Peter Yates, Foundation Certificates, IUDM award, IU Sing photos and bucket at Nick's say hello.

suck on that Ordy

[url=https://postimages.org/][/URL]

I know you guys may not like each other, but I was wanting to know what would make Indiana a better team this year, not start a fight

 

[PranksterMary]

My diploma, parking spots for FB and MBB, season FB and MBB tickets, yearly donations that exceed your income, Corp Board at the Frat, pay stub signed by Peter Yates, Foundation Certificates, IUDM award, IU Sing photos and bucket at Nick's say hello.

suck on that Ordy

How long did it take you to google all of that, troll boy. You’re a liar, troll. You’ve never set foot anywhere near IU. Your posts make that crystal clear, troll boy. The only somewhat believable lie in there was that you were in IU Sing. Lol

 

[OhioBoiler51]

Imo, for Indiana to have a successful season, tjd has to be a team player, and not feel like a big fish in a small pond. Kids a stud, and will be a big time player for you. Smith has some game, as does phinisee, and the other Davis. Those guys have to step up big to compete in the big ten this yr. I think you do make it back to the dance this yr, and with the right matchups at least the second weekend. Iyo, what needs to happen for Indiana to have a successful year?

Make the field of 68. After missing 3 years in a row and not adding any shooters while losing almost 40ppg from last year just making the tournament should be labeled a success for them.

 

[ORG]

WE have no say as to who is permitted here.