Fareed Zakaria weekly take - Trump betting on US manufacturing.

[mcmurtry66]

How often are gold and silver used as currency? They used to be regularly, of course. But it's been a long time.

CC is sometimes used as currency now. But it's still exceedingly rare in a relative sense. And I would guess that Gresham's Law would explain at least part of that: if you hold two currencies, you're going to spend the one you think will have less buying power in the future...and hang on to the one you think will have more.

But is that the only reason it hasn't yet found much purchase as a medium of exchange? I'd argue that there are other things holding it back. Look at exchange rates when you use crypto to purchase something. They're almost unfailingly unfavorable to the buyer, relative to spot prices. It's even worse when you're converting USD (or any other fiat currency) into crypto. I would expect these to improve and standardize at some point. But they haven't done so yet, in my experience.

Also, they're highly volatile relative to major fiat currencies -- which necessitates the hedges that mediators and merchants have to build in. They're going to protect themselves, and I can't blame them. And that comes at the expense of the consumer.

If we'd have asked most crypto guys 7 or 8 years if crypto would be at least somewhat commonly used as a currency by 2025, I bet that most of them would've said yes. It is more commonly used today than then. But nobody would call it common, not for ordinary commerce anyway.

And I'm still skeptical it ever will be.

I was loose with currency. I meant it was backed by gold forever. Until what 40 years ago. And again we’ve just ascribed value to gold. It’s not really of any independent value

The remainder of your take on crypto I think can summarily (no offense) be dismissed by its relative infancy.

What I’ve never understood about crypto is this notion that it operates adjacent to or independently- why couldn’t gov just co-opt it regulate it eliminate its appeal in that regard and basically make it defacto fiat currency

 

[snarlcakes]

What I’ve never understood about crypto is this notion that it operates adjacent to or independently- why couldn’t gov just co-opt it regulate it eliminate its appeal in that regard and basically make it defacto fiat currency

They would first have to acquire it all. At some point the market would quit selling their Bitcoin for dollars (which will eventually happen at some point).

 

[twenty02]

They would first have to acquire it all. At some point the market would quit selling their Bitcoin for dollars (which will eventually happen at some point).

No they wouldn't. If exchanges were shut down the liquidity would evaporate immediately. It would be back to the days of outlaws and hyper nerds trading on dark web exchanges.

The leverage used in the crypto market is significant


100x leverage... What could go wrong?

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SINGAPORE, March 21, 2025 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Following President Donald Trump’s announcement to include Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), Ripple (XRP),...

www.globenewswire.com

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Yes I’m bias against many of Trump’s policies but Fareed has intelligent opinions I could never articulate. I’d like to post his weekly takes and open for discussion.

View embedded media

Sorry. I refuse to watch content from CNN or FOX. I need a spoon feed.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

It's basically digital gold, and only has value to the level that someone else is willing to pay for it.

And this is why I've avoided it as an investment -- on top of the fact that the theoretical maximum supply of cryptocurrency all told is infinite, even if the maximum supply of the largest cryptocurrency is 21m. The second largest one has no hard supply cap and is instead limited by diminishing block rewards -- which themselves are governed in a way fairly similar to the Federal Reserve Board. The Ethereum community has a human-run and governed process to alter core metrics.

Still, my biggest problem isn't BTC or ETH themselves -- or the other significant ones like XRP or Solana. It's the fact that anybody can create a new cryptocurrency. And some of them tend to draw a lot of buyers hoping to hit the next homerun with their version of an "IPO". Look at the recent rug pull example that caught Javier Milei in a ringer - not to mention the Hawk Tuah chick.

Yeah, I know that serious crypto people dismiss these sorts of things. But Dogecoin started life as a "memecoin" and it has a current market cap of $27B!

And the entire source of that valuation is people expecting it to rise - from demand from other people seeking the same thing from still other people.

And this is something that cannot go on forever.

 

[twenty02]

I was loose with currency. I meant it was backed by gold forever. Until what 40 years ago. And again we’ve just ascribed value to gold. It’s not really of any independent value

The remainder of your take on crypto I think can summarily (no offense) be dismissed by its relative infancy.

What I’ve never understood about crypto is this notion that it operates adjacent to or independently- why couldn’t gov just co-opt it regulate it eliminate its appeal in that regard and basically make it defacto fiat currency

Bitcoin (or any crypto) has never been tested in a real bear market. A 2000 or 2008 (or '80, '73, etc...)

We had 2022 and it lost like 65% peak to bottom. When the stock market was down like 27%.



Gold went up in value in 2008/9 in a flight to safety. Does anyone really believe Bitcoin would behave that way, in a similar bear market?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

C2, thanks for your explanation.

Follow up query, what grade would Friedman give the Federal Reserve in handling our recent battle against inflation?

I think he’d generally be OK with it, given what they had to deal with. Better so than his view of the Fed c. 1927-29 (and beyond, really).

But I also think he’d be sounding alarm bells about what’s on our currently mapped course.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

They would first have to acquire it all.

Why would they have to do that?

At some point the market would quit selling their Bitcoin for dollars (which will eventually happen at some point).

Why will it do that? The very idea of currency is that people can exchange it for pretty much anything else of roughly equivalent value.

 

[snarlcakes]

No they wouldn't. If exchanges were shut down the liquidity would evaporate immediately. It would be back to the days of outlaws and hyper nerds trading on dark web exchanges.

The leverage used in the crypto market is significant


100x leverage... What could go wrong?

BexBack Launches No KYC, 100x Leverage Crypto Futures Trading for All, Double Deposit Bonus

SINGAPORE, March 21, 2025 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Following President Donald Trump’s announcement to include Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), Ripple (XRP),...

www.globenewswire.com

It's a true free market. Idiots can go 100x long and get their faces ripped off. I don't care, cheaper sats for myself when they blow up. Also, I don't need exchanges to buy and sell Bitcoin. It's permission less.

 

[iuwclurker]

 

[iuwclurker]

Why would they have to do that?



Why will it do that? The very idea of currency is that people can exchange it for pretty much anything else of roughly equivalent value.

I am not an economist…

Crypto “currency” isn’t. At least it’s not legal tender in the US and most countries.

The IRS evidently treats it as property:

“The IRS considers cryptocurrency to be “property” for tax purposes. If you accept cryptocurrency, you must report it as gross income based on its fair market value when it was received. “In other words, each time you sell, buy, or use Bitcoin, you're subject to a capital gains tax,” wrote Inc.”

What I don’t get is this, if crypto becomes used for everyday transactions alongside dollars, how can the Fed or anyone contol inflation and all the other complications of currency imbalances in the marketplace?

I think part of the mystique of crypto is that virtually everyone is clueless about it. Once people realize it’s a misnomer and that the government can illegalize it tomorrow if necessary to control the money supply, I’m seeing crypto crashing and burning. It has no intrinsic value. It’s bits and bytes in the cloud.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I am not an economist…

Crypto “currency” isn’t. At least it’s not legal tender in the US and most countries.

The IRS evidently treats it as property:

“The IRS considers cryptocurrency to be “property” for tax purposes. If you accept cryptocurrency, you must report it as gross income based on its fair market value when it was received. “In other words, each time you sell, buy, or use Bitcoin, you're subject to a capital gains tax,” wrote Inc.”

What I don’t get is this, if crypto becomes used for everyday transactions alongside dollars, how can the Fed or anyone contol inflation and all the other complications of currency imbalances in the marketplace?

I think part of the mystique of crypto is that virtually everyone is clueless about it. Once people realize it’s a misnomer and that the government can illegalize it tomorrow if necessary to control the money supply, I’m seeing crypto crashing and burning. It has no intrinsic value. It’s bits and bytes in the cloud.

Gold had no intrinsic value yet it backed our currency

 

[twenty02]

It's a true free market. Idiots can go 100x long and get their faces ripped off. I don't care, cheaper sats for myself when they blow up. Also, I don't need exchanges to buy and sell Bitcoin. It's permission less.

Ok.

But every other security trading market runs under regulations. You can go high leverage in a lot of things. I can go high leverage using eminis... Trading the sp500. I need up put up margin. But the rules are very discreet.

100x is absolutely ridiculous. It's basically casino gambling.... Like that degenerate YouTube guy who bets on dice rolls.... Gets up $60k and then loses it in 5 minutes. Someone gets it. It doesn't disappear. But it only works when there is a market that provides the underlying leverage.

 

[snarlcakes]

I am not an economist…

Crypto “currency” isn’t. At least it’s not legal tender in the US and most countries.

The IRS evidently treats it as property:

“The IRS considers cryptocurrency to be “property” for tax purposes. If you accept cryptocurrency, you must report it as gross income based on its fair market value when it was received. “In other words, each time you sell, buy, or use Bitcoin, you're subject to a capital gains tax,” wrote Inc.”

What I don’t get is this, if crypto becomes used for everyday transactions alongside dollars, how can the Fed or anyone contol inflation and all the other complications of currency imbalances in the marketplace?

I think part of the mystique of crypto is that virtually everyone is clueless about it. Once people realize it’s a misnomer and that the government can illegalize it tomorrow if necessary to control the money supply, I’m seeing crypto crashing and burning. It has no intrinsic value. It’s bits and bytes in the cloud.

Bitcoin is classified as property. The rest of the cryptocurrencies are classified as securities.

 

[snarlcakes]

Why would they have to do that?

I was just trying to answer Murt's question. They do need to acquire Bitcoin before other nations do in my opinion.

Why will it do that? The very idea of currency is that people can exchange it for pretty much anything else of roughly equivalent value.

Eventually, the dollar will fail and Bitcoin will still be around.

Turns out that Friedman actually predicted cryptocurrency, in 1999. He used the term "e-cash".

So, given this comment, I suppose you have to say that he'd be supportive of it -- assuming, anyway, it fulfills its promise as something people regularly use to exchange value.

View embedded media

I was about to post that clip. Hayek would have been a Bitcoiner and predicted it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I was just trying to answer Murt's question. They do need to acquire Bitcoin before other nations do in my opinion.

I don’t think any government would need to own all of Bitcoin (or any other resource) in order to pass laws restricting or regulating their usage.

I’m not advocating for that, of course. But they could do so, any time they wanted to.

Eventually, the dollar will fail and Bitcoin will still be around.

Man, I’m bearish on the future of the USD, too. But “fail”?

If that were to ever happen, I suspect none of us would be around to see it.

 

[snarlcakes]

Ok.

But every other security trading market runs under regulations. You can go high leverage in a lot of things. I can go high leverage using eminis... Trading the sp500. I need up put up margin. But the rules are very discreet.

100x is absolutely ridiculous. It's basically casino gambling.... Like that degenerate YouTube guy who bets on dice rolls.... Gets up $60k and then loses it in 5 minutes. Someone gets it. It doesn't disappear. But it only works when there is a market that provides the underlying leverage.

I'm fine with more regulations and wouldn't be upset if shitcoins (like Trump coin) were outlawed. It holds back the adoption of Bitcoin, because people lump them all together.

 

[snarlcakes]

I don’t think any government would need to own all of Bitcoin (or any other resource) in order to pass laws restricting or regulating their usage.

I’m not advocating for that, of course. But they could do so, any time they wanted to.

I agree, but that wouldn't stop Bitcoin though. The U.S. would just be banning themselves from it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I agree, but that wouldn't stop Bitcoin though. The U.S. would just be banning themselves from it.

I doubt anybody will be banning it - unless it’s seen to be posing some kind of security threat.

However, I would imagine that any kinds of regulations and/or restrictions would involve multilateral treaties.

 

[sglowrider]

Yes I’m bias against many of Trump’s policies but Fareed has intelligent opinions I could never articulate. I’d like to post his weekly takes and open for discussion.

View embedded media

Personally, I think the boat has sailed for manufacturing. If they are serious about bring back manufacturing, they need smart manufacturing, streamlining of regulations, and for christ-sake some consistency in policies. Then there the education/vocational curriculum that needs to be restructured.

China’s “engineer dividend” is only now finally paying off.

Between 2000 and 2020, the number of engineers ballooned from 5.2 million to 17.7 million, as opposed to 400k in the US and the majority of them are either Chinese or Indian nationals. FYI 47% of all AI scientists are of Chinese descent or nationals.

In 2022, 47 per cent of the world’s top 20th percentile of AI researchers finished their undergraduate studies in China, well above the 18 percent share from the US, according to data from the Paulson Institute’s in-house think-tank, MacroPolo.

Last year, the Asian nation ranked third in the number of innovation indicators compiled by the World Intellectual Property Organisation, after Singapore and the US.

From what I read, on the chip side; half the middle and upper management of TSMC's plant in AZ are staffed by Taiwanese because they cant find Americans who have the skillsets, experience, or working culture.

Without a commie industrial policy, how will the US produce enough scientists and engineers? Its a generational target. All the subsidies in the world isnt enough when there isnt enough human capital in the short and medium term. Both Biden and Trump are blowing hot air. The country started getting hollowed out way back with Clinton. CEOs were more concerned about stock prices (due to their stoick options) than hiring more scientists to develop long term research.

But going back to Ivory Tower Fareed, he clearly doesnt know how tone-deaf he sounds. Doesnt he realise that over 50% of Americans are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unable to cobble up $500 if there was some personal medical emergency.

The problem isn't Trump, as I had this argument with my siblings and their respective spouses. The system is what brought folks like Trump into power for the 2nd time. Income disparity. I told that Trump would win. And they thought I suddenly became a MAGAhead -- which is the issue with the simplistic approach to politics in the US -- if you are with me, you are against me mindset. Its only great for those in political power as they manipulate and divide.

Or we always seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance and assume that we are the good guys and the other side only won because they cheated or are evil. It's just so infantile and childish an attitude.

The vast majority of Magaheads arent stupid. They are just emotionally and financially desperate -- worn down, which causes delusion or chronic cognitive dissonance.

For Fareed to just say its the service industry, stupid just shows how out of touch he is. Based on his statements, I am guessing that most of his peeps in the service industry are in the media/advertising, lobbyists, Wall Street/banking types -- when the vast majority of folks in 'the service' industry are Amazon delivery guys, flipping burgers, etc. Many have two to three 'service' jobs to make ends meet.

So even now, these folks, including those in my family, are still wondering how and why Trump won again.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Personally, I think the boat has sailed for manufacturing. If they are serious about bring back manufacturing, they need smart manufacturing, streamlining of regulations, and for christ-sake some consistency in policies. Then there the education/vocational curriculum that needs to be restructured.

China’s “engineer dividend” is only now finally paying off.

Between 2000 and 2020, the number of engineers ballooned from 5.2 million to 17.7 million, as opposed to 400k in the US and the majority of them are either Chinese or Indian nationals. FYI 47% of all AI scientists are of Chinese descent or nationals.

In 2022, 47 per cent of the world’s top 20th percentile of AI researchers finished their undergraduate studies in China, well above the 18 percent share from the US, according to data from the Paulson Institute’s in-house think-tank, MacroPolo.

Last year, the Asian nation ranked third in the number of innovation indicators compiled by the World Intellectual Property Organisation, after Singapore and the US.

From what I read, on the chip side; half the middle and upper management of TSMC's plant in AZ are staffed by Taiwanese because they cant find Americans who have the skillsets, experience, or working culture.

Without a commie industrial policy, how will the US produce enough scientists and engineers? Its a generational target. All the subsidies in the world isnt enough when there isnt enough human capital in the short and medium term. Both Biden and Trump are blowing hot air. The country started getting hollowed out way back with Clinton. CEOs were more concerned about stock prices (due to their stoick options) than hiring more scientists to develop long term research.

But going back to Ivory Tower Fareed, he clearly doesnt know how tone-deaf he sounds. Doesnt he realise that over 50% of Americans are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unable to cobble up $500 if there was some personal medical emergency.

The problem isn't Trump, as I had this argument with my siblings and their respective spouses. The system is what brought folks like Trump into power for the 2nd time. Income disparity. I told that Trump would win. And they thought I suddenly became a MAGAhead -- which is the issue with the simplistic approach to politics in the US -- if you are with me, you are against me mindset. Its only great for those in political power as they manipulate and divide.

Or we always seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance and assume that we are the good guys and the other side only won because they cheated or are evil. It's just so infantile and childish an attitude.

The vast majority of Magaheads arent stupid. They are just emotionally and financially desperate -- worn down, which causes delusion or chronic cognitive dissonance.

For Fareed to just say its the service industry, stupid just shows how out of touch he is. Based on his statements, I am guessing that most of his peeps in the service industry are in the media/advertising, lobbyists, Wall Street/banking types -- when the vast majority of folks in 'the service' industry are Amazon delivery guys, flipping burgers, etc. Many have two to three 'service' jobs to make ends meet.

So even now, these folks, including those in my family, are still wondering how and why Trump won again.

I agree that Zakaria is out of touch. But I don’t think he’s wrong.

And, again, how much of the burden for gaining high-value skills is on the country (as a matter of policy, etc), and how much of it is on us as individuals?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

That was very dumb and I was amazed at how many comments on social media were some version of, “he did that so that the United States now owns the gulf and can drill anywhere we want.” People are really ignorant about so many things but confidently make baseless assertions.

Trump has relied on the emotions of low education low information voters for his base and he fed them the red meat they wanted right out of the gate. "Gulf of America"!!!! Yeeee Haaaw.

 

[Spartans9312]

Trump has relied on the emotions of low education low information voters for his base and he fed them the red meat they wanted right out of the gate. "Gulf of America"!!!! Yeeee Haaaw.

There is such a disconnect in this country. You have frat boys still indirectly living off daddy’s money who have never left the ‘burbs looking down on communities and insinuating they are all stupid rednecks.

These same people would struggle with the basics of life without daddy’s money

 

[hoot1]

Personally, I think the boat has sailed for manufacturing. If they are serious about bring back manufacturing, they need smart manufacturing, streamlining of regulations, and for christ-sake some consistency in policies. Then there the education/vocational curriculum that needs to be restructured.

China’s “engineer dividend” is only now finally paying off.

Between 2000 and 2020, the number of engineers ballooned from 5.2 million to 17.7 million, as opposed to 400k in the US and the majority of them are either Chinese or Indian nationals. FYI 47% of all AI scientists are of Chinese descent or nationals.

In 2022, 47 per cent of the world’s top 20th percentile of AI researchers finished their undergraduate studies in China, well above the 18 percent share from the US, according to data from the Paulson Institute’s in-house think-tank, MacroPolo.

Last year, the Asian nation ranked third in the number of innovation indicators compiled by the World Intellectual Property Organisation, after Singapore and the US.

From what I read, on the chip side; half the middle and upper management of TSMC's plant in AZ are staffed by Taiwanese because they cant find Americans who have the skillsets, experience, or working culture.

Without a commie industrial policy, how will the US produce enough scientists and engineers? Its a generational target. All the subsidies in the world isnt enough when there isnt enough human capital in the short and medium term. Both Biden and Trump are blowing hot air. The country started getting hollowed out way back with Clinton. CEOs were more concerned about stock prices (due to their stoick options) than hiring more scientists to develop long term research.

But going back to Ivory Tower Fareed, he clearly doesnt know how tone-deaf he sounds. Doesnt he realise that over 50% of Americans are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unable to cobble up $500 if there was some personal medical emergency.

The problem isn't Trump, as I had this argument with my siblings and their respective spouses. The system is what brought folks like Trump into power for the 2nd time. Income disparity. I told that Trump would win. And they thought I suddenly became a MAGAhead -- which is the issue with the simplistic approach to politics in the US -- if you are with me, you are against me mindset. Its only great for those in political power as they manipulate and divide.

Or we always seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance and assume that we are the good guys and the other side only won because they cheated or are evil. It's just so infantile and childish an attitude.

The vast majority of Magaheads arent stupid. They are just emotionally and financially desperate -- worn down, which causes delusion or chronic cognitive dissonance.

For Fareed to just say its the service industry, stupid just shows how out of touch he is. Based on his statements, I am guessing that most of his peeps in the service industry are in the media/advertising, lobbyists, Wall Street/banking types -- when the vast majority of folks in 'the service' industry are Amazon delivery guys, flipping burgers, etc. Many have two to three 'service' jobs to make ends meet.

So even now, these folks, including those in my family, are still wondering how and why Trump won again.

Sglowrider, enjoyed and agreed with much of your post.

As someone who tunes into the "Ivory Tower" Zakaria weekly show your fresh perspective is the kind of material presented by his guests. He may question the quest's ideas for clarity but doesn't argue with them.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Trump has relied on the emotions of low education low information voters for his base and he fed them the red meat they wanted right out of the gate. "Gulf of America"!!!! Yeeee Haaaw.

On one hand, that sort of thing is absurdly patronizing. And it is.

On the other, it's entirely on-brand for him....and maddeningly good politics. Again, Axelrod has it right: Trump's a feral genius.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Personally, I think the boat has sailed for manufacturing. If they are serious about bring back manufacturing, they need smart manufacturing, streamlining of regulations, and for christ-sake some consistency in policies. Then there the education/vocational curriculum that needs to be restructured.

China’s “engineer dividend” is only now finally paying off.

Between 2000 and 2020, the number of engineers ballooned from 5.2 million to 17.7 million, as opposed to 400k in the US and the majority of them are either Chinese or Indian nationals. FYI 47% of all AI scientists are of Chinese descent or nationals.

In 2022, 47 per cent of the world’s top 20th percentile of AI researchers finished their undergraduate studies in China, well above the 18 percent share from the US, according to data from the Paulson Institute’s in-house think-tank, MacroPolo.

Last year, the Asian nation ranked third in the number of innovation indicators compiled by the World Intellectual Property Organisation, after Singapore and the US.

From what I read, on the chip side; half the middle and upper management of TSMC's plant in AZ are staffed by Taiwanese because they cant find Americans who have the skillsets, experience, or working culture.

Without a commie industrial policy, how will the US produce enough scientists and engineers? Its a generational target. All the subsidies in the world isnt enough when there isnt enough human capital in the short and medium term. Both Biden and Trump are blowing hot air. The country started getting hollowed out way back with Clinton. CEOs were more concerned about stock prices (due to their stoick options) than hiring more scientists to develop long term research.

But going back to Ivory Tower Fareed, he clearly doesnt know how tone-deaf he sounds. Doesnt he realise that over 50% of Americans are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unable to cobble up $500 if there was some personal medical emergency.

The problem isn't Trump, as I had this argument with my siblings and their respective spouses. The system is what brought folks like Trump into power for the 2nd time. Income disparity. I told that Trump would win. And they thought I suddenly became a MAGAhead -- which is the issue with the simplistic approach to politics in the US -- if you are with me, you are against me mindset. Its only great for those in political power as they manipulate and divide.

Or we always seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance and assume that we are the good guys and the other side only won because they cheated or are evil. It's just so infantile and childish an attitude.

The vast majority of Magaheads arent stupid. They are just emotionally and financially desperate -- worn down, which causes delusion or chronic cognitive dissonance.

For Fareed to just say its the service industry, stupid just shows how out of touch he is. Based on his statements, I am guessing that most of his peeps in the service industry are in the media/advertising, lobbyists, Wall Street/banking types -- when the vast majority of folks in 'the service' industry are Amazon delivery guys, flipping burgers, etc. Many have two to three 'service' jobs to make ends meet.

So even now, these folks, including those in my family, are still wondering how and why Trump won again.

The best and brightest in America go into MBA programs because that's where the money is. I've known a couple of overachiever types, science olympiad/mathlete types that would have made great engineers or scientists. But they chose business because they were smart enough to know that's where one gets rich.

We need to reevaluate this. We need our brightest not in hedge funds but researching AI, not creating derivatives but creating new materials. Moving money from pile A to pile B doesn't create wealth. But that is what we pay big money for.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

The best and brightest in America go into MBA programs because that's where the money is. I've known a couple of overachiever types, science olympiad/mathlete types that would have made great engineers or scientists. But they chose business because they were smart enough to know that's where one gets rich.

We need to reevaluate this. We need our brightest not in hedge funds but researching AI, not creating derivatives but creating new materials. Moving money from pile A to pile B doesn't create wealth. But that is what we pay big money for.

What do you mean by reevalute it?

Where money flows in a free economy isn't some sort of decision made in places like the Cabinet Room in the West Wing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The best and brightest in America go into MBA programs because that's where the money is. I've known a couple of overachiever types, science olympiad/mathlete types that would have made great engineers or scientists. But they chose business because they were smart enough to know that's where one gets rich.

We need to reevaluate this. We need our brightest not in hedge funds but researching AI, not creating derivatives but creating new materials. Moving money from pile A to pile B doesn't create wealth. But that is what we pay big money for.

2/2 bathroom condos attached to the parking lot of a grocery store by my office go in a god awful city with no city no beach and no mountains go for $1.5 mil. College is $60k a year. Daycare about $2k a kid. At a little catholic school. Health insurance $1,500 a month. Cars $50 - $80k

So how do you do that? At this point with the new world order it’s a race to chase whatever pays most. All the parents from here I know who sent their kids to iu, and I know a fair amount, are all in Kelley.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

2/2 bathroom condos attached to the parking lot of a grocery store by my office go in a god awful city with no city no beach and no mountains go for $1.5 mil. College is $60k a year. Daycare about $2k a kid. At a little catholic school. Health insurance $1,500 a month. Cars $50 - $80k

So how do you do that? At this point with the new world order it’s a race to chase whatever pays most. All the parents from here I know who sent their kids to iu, and I know a fair amount, are all in Kelley.

Gee, how could things have gotten so expensive?

Fasten your seatbelts. We’re only getting started. And the people heavily invested in government largess aren’t just going to gladly yield as efforts are made to address the problem.

 

[Spartans9312]

2/2 bathroom condos attached to the parking lot of a grocery store by my office go in a god awful city with no city no beach and no mountains go for $1.5 mil. College is $60k a year. Daycare about $2k a kid. At a little catholic school. Health insurance $1,500 a month. Cars $50 - $80k

So how do you do that? At this point with the new world order it’s a race to chase whatever pays most. All the parents from here I know who sent their kids to iu, and I know a fair amount, are all in Kelley.

It’s all artificial. Where’s digressions? We have artificially increased the price of damn near everything. Standards for this and standards for that. Requirements to save something. It’s all bullshit but we don’t have a big enough shovel to dig out.

And this all affects the ones it was supposed to save more than people will admit

 

[Marvin the Martian]

What do you mean by reevalute it?

Where money flows in a free economy isn't some sort of decision made in places like the Cabinet Room in the West Wing.

Some of it is. There are ways to reward investments in business and not in the casino economy. Make money from a company that produces jobs, great. Make money on a derivitative/bitcoin/art/ then you don't get the same tax advantage EVEN if you hold it for a year.

Shareholders largely determine some of this. Jack Welsh broke the system, he took CEO's from well-paid to godhood status. Investors can invest in companies that don't throw money at execs.

We can also use policy to reward people in needed careers. If we need engineers, we have a special engineer tax rate. Or go into engineering for 10 years and your student loans are paid off. Or corporations get extra tax breaks per engineer hired (must submit proof of degree from accredited engineering school).

Yes, some of the ideas are crap, just showing ways we can try to get the top of the top into STEM and out of business. But I do think we should look at ways to punish predatory hedge funds.

 

[hoot1]

Some of it is. There are ways to reward investments in business and not in the casino economy. Make money from a company that produces jobs, great. Make money on a derivitative/bitcoin/art/ then you don't get the same tax advantage EVEN if you hold it for a year.

Shareholders largely determine some of this. Jack Welsh broke the system, he took CEO's from well-paid to godhood status. Investors can invest in companies that don't throw money at execs.

We can also use policy to reward people in needed careers. If we need engineers, we have a special engineer tax rate. Or go into engineering for 10 years and your student loans are paid off. Or corporations get extra tax breaks per engineer hired (must submit proof of degree from accredited engineering school).

Yes, some of the ideas are crap, just showing ways we can try to get the top of the top into STEM and out of business. But I do think we should look at ways to punish predatory hedge funds.

MtM, what happens when one country simply has more of its population with the God given talents required to be a competent engineer than another country?

Let us face it, some of us could never be an engineer, just as someone well suited to be an engineer would be a lousy greeter at a Walmart store.

 

[Eppy99]

Personally, I think the boat has sailed for manufacturing. If they are serious about bring back manufacturing, they need smart manufacturing, streamlining of regulations, and for christ-sake some consistency in policies. Then there the education/vocational curriculum that needs to be restructured.

China’s “engineer dividend” is only now finally paying off.

Between 2000 and 2020, the number of engineers ballooned from 5.2 million to 17.7 million, as opposed to 400k in the US and the majority of them are either Chinese or Indian nationals. FYI 47% of all AI scientists are of Chinese descent or nationals.

In 2022, 47 per cent of the world’s top 20th percentile of AI researchers finished their undergraduate studies in China, well above the 18 percent share from the US, according to data from the Paulson Institute’s in-house think-tank, MacroPolo.

Last year, the Asian nation ranked third in the number of innovation indicators compiled by the World Intellectual Property Organisation, after Singapore and the US.

From what I read, on the chip side; half the middle and upper management of TSMC's plant in AZ are staffed by Taiwanese because they cant find Americans who have the skillsets, experience, or working culture.

Without a commie industrial policy, how will the US produce enough scientists and engineers? Its a generational target. All the subsidies in the world isnt enough when there isnt enough human capital in the short and medium term. Both Biden and Trump are blowing hot air. The country started getting hollowed out way back with Clinton. CEOs were more concerned about stock prices (due to their stoick options) than hiring more scientists to develop long term research.

But going back to Ivory Tower Fareed, he clearly doesnt know how tone-deaf he sounds. Doesnt he realise that over 50% of Americans are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unable to cobble up $500 if there was some personal medical emergency.

The problem isn't Trump, as I had this argument with my siblings and their respective spouses. The system is what brought folks like Trump into power for the 2nd time. Income disparity. I told that Trump would win. And they thought I suddenly became a MAGAhead -- which is the issue with the simplistic approach to politics in the US -- if you are with me, you are against me mindset. Its only great for those in political power as they manipulate and divide.

Or we always seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance and assume that we are the good guys and the other side only won because they cheated or are evil. It's just so infantile and childish an attitude.

The vast majority of Magaheads arent stupid. They are just emotionally and financially desperate -- worn down, which causes delusion or chronic cognitive dissonance.

For Fareed to just say its the service industry, stupid just shows how out of touch he is. Based on his statements, I am guessing that most of his peeps in the service industry are in the media/advertising, lobbyists, Wall Street/banking types -- when the vast majority of folks in 'the service' industry are Amazon delivery guys, flipping burgers, etc. Many have two to three 'service' jobs to make ends meet.

So even now, these folks, including those in my family, are still wondering how and why Trump won again.

Thank you for the reply. This is exactly what I was looking for. I happen to really enjoy his weekly take. But as it’s his show, there’s isn’t a true debate or rebuttal. I like to hear some different perspectives to help shape my opinions. I believe he is one of the brighter journalists on tv and particularly like his takes on foreign policy. I will continue to share his weekly monologues hoping we can continue to have thoughtful discussions.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Some of it is. There are ways to reward investments in business and not in the casino economy. Make money from a company that produces jobs, great. Make money on a derivitative/bitcoin/art/ then you don't get the same tax advantage EVEN if you hold it for a year.

Man, you better hope snarlcakes doesn't read that! 😋

I'm going to push back on you some about derivatives. It's a broad term - just meaning that is value is "derived" from an underlying item. And while some of them may not be of any genuine benefit to capital markets other than as a makeshift craps table, some others serve very vital purposes. Commodity futures are derivatives. So are stock options. Swaps got a bad name during the housing crisis -- but there are various kinds of them. They are most often used to mitigate risk against changes in interest rates and currency volatility in forex -- unknown future movements of something being a critical component of any derivative.

I can see why somebody might see derivatives as just gambling, as compared to straight debt or equity investments. But I honestly don't think that's true. I think at least some of them are just part of the machinery under the hood, developed (like most things) as responses to problems that have arisen in the past.

These sorts of hedge instruments help to encourage capital into risk situations.

We can also use policy to reward people in needed careers. If we need engineers, we have a special engineer tax rate. Or go into engineering for 10 years and your student loans are paid off. Or corporations get extra tax breaks per engineer hired (must submit proof of degree from accredited engineering school).

Yes, some of the ideas are crap, just showing ways we can try to get the top of the top into STEM and out of business. But I do think we should look at ways to punish predatory hedge funds.

OK, I'm not in love with all of those. And I don't think they'd really make too much of a difference to what you're talking about. But, generally speaking, I'm not opposed to public policy being used to churn out more STEM folks. I'm sure some of this has already been done -- and it's frustrating that we don't get more people into those critical fields.

 

[snarlcakes]

Man, you better hope snarlcakes doesn't read that! 😋

Too late.

The best and brightest in America go into MBA programs because that's where the money is. I've known a couple of overachiever types, science olympiad/mathlete types that would have made great engineers or scientists. But they chose business because they were smart enough to know that's where one gets rich.

We need to reevaluate this. We need our brightest not in hedge funds but researching AI, not creating derivatives but creating new materials. Moving money from pile A to pile B doesn't create wealth. But that is what we pay big money for.

Bitcoin is literally designed to fix this, Marv.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

There is such a disconnect in this country. You have frat boys still indirectly living off daddy’s money who have never left the ‘burbs looking down on communities and insinuating they are all stupid rednecks.

These same people would struggle with the basics of life without daddy’s money

OK?

 

[iuwclurker]

On one hand, that sort of thing is absurdly patronizing. And it is.

Trump's a feral genius.

and a fecal genesis.

 

[iuwclurker]

Man, you better hope snarlcakes doesn't read that! 😋

I'm going to push back on you some about derivatives. It's a broad term - just meaning that is value is "derived" from an underlying item. And while some of them may not be of any genuine benefit to capital markets other than as a makeshift craps table, some others serve very vital purposes. Commodity futures are derivatives. So are stock options. Swaps got a bad name during the housing crisis -- but there are various kinds of them. They are most often used to mitigate risk against changes in interest rates and currency volatility in forex -- unknown future movements of something being a critical component of any derivative.

I can see why somebody might see derivatives as just gambling, as compared to straight debt or equity investments. But I honestly don't think that's true. I think at least some of them are just part of the machinery under the hood, developed (like most things) as responses to problems that have arisen in the past.

These sorts of hedge instruments help to encourage capital into risk situations.



OK, I'm not in love with all of those. And I don't think they'd really make too much of a difference to what you're talking about. But, generally speaking, I'm not opposed to public policy being used to churn out more STEM folks. I'm sure some of this has already been done -- and it's frustrating that we don't get more people into those critical fields.

I’ll put it simpler. MtM’s friends are missing the boat. (Or not). The big money of the future is in the business of AI.

 

[BradStevens]

Not sure where to put this, but this is the approximately the right thread.

Just went to flip on something to watch, and saw Newt Gingrich on Hannity. Gingrich said "if you study history," you'll see tariffs worked for the US from 1800-1932 and it can work again. Said Trump's goal is the same as Jefferson's to eliminate the need for IRS agents and get trillions in revenue from tariffs while making our economy strong and growing.

Sorry, Old Guard Republicans, your party is no more. Trump's GOP is a new breed.

 

[sglowrider]

Thank you for the reply. This is exactly what I was looking for. I happen to really enjoy his weekly take. But as it’s his show, there’s isn’t a true debate or rebuttal. I like to hear some different perspectives to help shape my opinions. I believe he is one of the brighter journalists on tv and particularly like his takes on foreign policy. I will continue to share his weekly monologues hoping we can continue to have thoughtful discussions.

He's anachoronistic in his view.

Happens to the best of us. Then we double down and become dogmatic.