Execution by Firing Squad - Friday in South Carolina.
- Thread starter Aloha Hoosier
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God I hope so. Would explain A LOT.
Some............. Leave a very strong, long lasting imprint on us.
Like Property taxes in homes that one doesn't live in any longer.
Just sayin there are considerations to be at least considered. ... .. Right!
You know what, upon further review, I'm not sure there is. I saw a poll that showed doctors generally agreed that it was wrong for them to be involved in executions, but I can't find one that says how they feel about it overall.
But there's no question that the consensus in the medical field is that capital punishment is counter to medical ethics.
Capital Punishment | AMA-Code
Code of Ethics Opinions pages. As a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, a physician must not participate in a legally authorized execution.
Thanks.You know what, upon further review, I'm not sure there is. I saw a poll that showed doctors generally agreed that it was wrong for them to be involved in executions, but I can't find one that says how they feel about it overall.
But there's no question that the consensus in the medical field is that capital punishment is counter to medical ethics.
Capital Punishment | AMA-Code
Code of Ethics Opinions pages. As a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, a physician must not participate in a legally authorized execution.code-medical-ethics.ama-assn.org
"Shall do no harm"You know what, upon further review, I'm not sure there is. I saw a poll that showed doctors generally agreed that it was wrong for them to be involved in executions, but I can't find one that says how they feel about it overall.
But there's no question that the consensus in the medical field is that capital punishment is counter to medical ethics.
Capital Punishment | AMA-Code
Code of Ethics Opinions pages. As a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, a physician must not participate in a legally authorized execution.
It took you this long, reading and investigating your claim to consider the Hippocratic Oath. "Shall do no harm" as the public often recite.
"By all that I hold highest, I promise my patients competence, integrity, candor, personal commitment to their best interest, compassion, and absolute discretion, and confidentiality within the law.
I shall do by my patients as I would be done by; shall obtain consultation whenever I or they desire; shall include them to the extent they wish in all important decisions; and shall minimize suffering whenever a cure cannot be obtained, understanding that a dignified death is an important goal in everyone’s life.
I shall try to establish a friendly relationship with my patients and shall accept each one in a nonjudgmental manner, appreciating the validity and worth of different value systems and according to each person a full measure of human dignity.
I shall charge only for my professional services and shall not profit financially in any other way as a result of the advice and care I render my patients.
I shall provide advice and encouragement for my patients in their efforts to sustain their own health.
I shall work with my profession to improve the quality of medical care and to improve the public health, but I shall not let any lesser public or professional consideration interfere with my primary commitment to provide the best and most appropriate care available to each of my patients.
To the extent that I live by these precepts, I shall be a worthy physician".
*https://students.med.psu.edu/md-students/oath/
I just don’t think as men we have the right to justifiably murder another human. Even if there is 0% doubt that the perpetrator is guilty, it is still beyond the jurisdiction of man in my opinion to carry out this judgment. I can’t remember what my opinions were on this 30+ years ago before med school, so not sure how much my training played into my opinion on this issueYou know what, upon further review, I'm not sure there is. I saw a poll that showed doctors generally agreed that it was wrong for them to be involved in executions, but I can't find one that says how they feel about it overall.
But there's no question that the consensus in the medical field is that capital punishment is counter to medical ethics.
Capital Punishment | AMA-Code
Code of Ethics Opinions pages. As a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, a physician must not participate in a legally authorized execution.
Eye for an eye. I have zero problem with it, obviously.
Some people just need killin'.
Devil’s Advocate: If there is an afterlife, is it even possible to “kill” someone? That is, if we’re spiritual beings lugging around a body, isn’t killing just “debodification” of a spiritual being?
My view is our system and concept of justice is barbaric. I don’t believe people are basically evil. To the contrary. As a society, our problem is we don’t know how to actually rehabilitate people who have degenerated from their better self. So we commit atrocities and coop criminals up like caged animals because of our primitive lack of a science of rehabilitation.
No. War is justified in many cases. Without war we’d all be bowing to some self proclaimed deity
Why not death by animal? We’ve got vicious big cats, bears, throw ‘em’ in a tank of predator sharks, a pit of venomous snakes, pack of wolves….let them pick.
I've already made it clear that my position is this animal shouldn't meet his maker after a pain free death. You don't have to keep selling me.
I thought about this last night. As you guys know, I'm a lover of seasoned women not a fighter. But, I couldn't bring myself to believe I'd "turn the other cheek" or let a guy experience a pain free death if he murdered my daughter.
I don't even believe in the death penalty but I think I'd want to bash their brains in with a bat and that doing so might be the only thing that would provide any catharsis at all. I say this as a father b/c if your daughter gets murdered, you didn't protect her. Even if that would have been impossible in the situation, the feeling would persist forever. I would feel guilt beyond words. And maybe, just maybe, we should allow the victim's family the opportunity for that catharsis.
Is it barbaric? Possibly. Were all parts of barbarism bad? Dunno, ask Europe.
I don't even believe in the death penalty but I think I'd want to bash their brains in with a bat and that doing so might be the only thing that would provide any catharsis at all. I say this as a father b/c if your daughter gets murdered, you didn't protect her. Even if that would have been impossible in the situation, the feeling would persist forever. I would feel guilt beyond words. And maybe, just maybe, we should allow the victim's family the opportunity for that catharsis.
Is it barbaric? Possibly. Were all parts of barbarism bad? Dunno, ask Europe.
I think that feeling is universal, and it's probably why we have criminal legal codes to begin with. Going even as far back as Hammurabi, criminal punishments at the hands of the state were intended to replace and prevent the pre-legal dispensing of retributive justice by family/clan of the victims.
Oh no, I get the logic and historical precedent. Religious dogma, etc.
But I do wonder if, psychologically, we spend so much time working somebody through their grief (which never happens) and reformatting their own ideology/emotions when literally just bashing the convicted person's brain in with a bat would do most the same thing with better results.
I mean, I don't think psychology has ever considered this notion b/c we've traditionally left the responsbility to the state or hid it behind religious dogma.
The state can still try and convict. But the punishment.....I'm not against considering providing that option to the victim's family. They can always turn it down.....
Would our minds think it was self defense? Would it provide greater benefit to that family (especially fathers of daughters) if they were allowed to release that guilt on somebody's dome? Can we answer these questions?
I don't know. Have you ever exacted any sort of revenge on someone who did you harm? Did you feel good about it after the fact?
I think it would weigh on you.
Also, primarily the situation you describe above was to make sure justice (such as it's ever been) was administered fairly and, as those laws evolved, "beyond a reasonable doubt." I'm only concerned with the post sentencing administration of punishment. The state still gets their flowers with the conviction.
Just interesting to me b/c I don't think psychology has considered this option in any great detail. Perhaps they have. Perhaps it's akin to soldiers acting in self defense who feel no guilt or ill feelings later in life. Who knows.
Revenge? Of course. Physical bodily harm as revenge? No. But then again, I've never been wronged to that level.
I don't think my own mind would be able to file vengeance - even righteous vengeance - away as simply a form of self-defense. Hopefully I'll never have to test that.
Perfectly valid point, I was thinking about that, too. But I have a sister, and there were a couple of times that someone hurt her, and the fury I felt and what I honestly considered doing in the heat of the moment...
I gave my sister stitches twice.
Really hated myself for it.........wait, no I didn't.
Basically you’re looking for a justification to harm someone.
We all seek to be right as one of our most basic impulses.
Once anyone has harmed another, one has a choice between taking responsibility for one’s action or justifying it.
Taking responsibility tends to include admitting one was wrong which enables or frees one to be right by not doing it again in the future.
Justifying a harmful or wrong action is considering it “right” and puts one in the position of having to repeat the wrongness in the future to be “right.”
Thus recidivism. Society pronounces the criminal wrong and “justice” is to reinforce the person’s wrongness by imposing a sentence. After five years of being wrong in prison, the perp promptly repeats the offense to be “right” in his wrongness.
In short, if you bash someone’s head in, you’d better fess up, to yourself at least, or you’re liable to become a head basher. 😈
I'd probably be ok with that burden if they killed my child.
Just sayin.
Is revenge, in some scenarios, the best course of action from a "justice" perspective as well as a human/psychological standpoint? Dunno. Interesting question that I think we've only spent hundreds of years answering with "Obviously, revenge in the form of bodily harm is always bad." AGain, I'm not sure there's anything obvious about it other than the certainties we have convinced ourselves of b/c of religious belief or considered philosophical opinion. That is all fine and well. But what about from a medical perspective or scientific perspective? Is there any way to even discern same? Dunno.
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People as a whole aren't basically evil, however there are evil people among us. For the sake of argument, let's say all evil people are capable of being rehabilitated. If we lack the science to do that, what other choices do we have? We certainly shouldn't turn those evil people loose where they go back to preying on the innocent should we?
Hard labor? Personally I think work is liberating. One way of looking at criminals is that they don’t know how to contribute to society so teach them.
This is a really interesting line of inquiry. I think where we obviously agree is that our concern should be with the survivors and not the perpetrator. But where I think I would depart is thinking our response would depend on religious belief or philosophical opinion. I mean, it's possible. But I think it's more likely that something innate in our humanness would determine our response, and if the temporary relief of exact revenge gives way to a long-lasting regret for engaging in such behavior, I suspect that pattern would be more or less universal (outside sociopaths, of course).
I'm not saying I have any reason to believe that's how it would happen, beyond my own meditation on the question, so my opinion is worth squat here at most. I'm just saying my gut tells me there's something existential to being a human that would dictate how we react to such a situation.
Again, my greatest hope in this regard is to never find out.
If antelope have a member of the herd that affects the herds safety, they place that one at the end of the herd for the predictors.
If the NIH has a newly developed strain of covid that doesn't disrupt the 2020 election, they kill it.
These people, having gone through the system and being found guilty, having been found to be a danger to the Human herds safety, need to be put out of our misery. ALL questions had already been answered.
Hope the victim's family finally has some closure.
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