Lol. In all seriousness Zekes brand of “you’re not a strong woman unless you believe what I believe” feminism is really gross.
Electability
- Thread starter Rockfish1
- Start date
Lol. In all seriousness Zekes brand of “you’re not a strong woman unless you believe what I believe” feminism is really gross.
This poll confirms my sense that a lot of Biden's support derives from the belief that he's the most "electable" Democratic candidate. There just isn't any solid basis to believe that. In fact, no one has any idea who the most electable candidate is.
Democrats should support whomever they think the best candidate is, but it's a mistake to support the candidate you think most other people would support.
Democrats should support whomever they think the best candidate is, but it's a mistake to support the candidate you think most other people would support.
True. But your average voter flicks on the tube or opens the paper and the headline is that Biden beats Trump by 9. That sticks with the electability voters.
The gaffe-prone Biden has been staying mostly out of the public eye, but in private he's reportedly been speaking wistfully about the "civility" of his dealings with segregationists and assuring wealthy donors that that they'd have nothing to fear from President Biden. I can understand why never Trumpers might prefer Biden, but I don't understand why Democrats would.
I get that you don't like the centrist calculation, Rock, but I think you sell Biden short. There are a lot of good candidates in the Democratic field and Biden is definitely one of them. A lot of his position as the poll leader is derived from name recognition, so we'll see what comes when the debates and Iowa start heating up. I suspect that Biden will continue to do well.
We'll see, but Biden has never before been a strong presidential candidate, he's out of step with the times, he's a gaffe machine, and he's way too old.
My sense is that Biden represents the closest embodiment of a pre-Trump "the way things used to be" wish for a lot of voters. In other words, a hope for a way to get "back on the right track".
If Biden is the Democratic candidate I'd vote for him in a heartbeat over Trump, with the expectation that he'd be a caretaker president for just enough time to stabilize the US a bit - think Gerald Ford - but he's really not a president on which to pin one's hopes for the US' long-term future.
Better than what we've got . . . which is reason enough to vote for him.
Of course I'd vote for Biden over Trump, but "electability" is the only reason I can see for Democratic primary voters to settle for a "caretaker president", and "electability" is mostly make believe.
I agree mostly. I think the other thing people think about Biden, and I’m one of them, is that he’s a genuinely decent and caring person. I remember seeing him comforting Meghan McCain after her dad’s diagnosis and it had me in tears. Normally that wouldn’t mean much in a candidate, but I know after Trump, it seems like a really important quality to some people. Biden isn’t in my top tier, but I can understand why he is in others.
How he performs in that regard -- being "a genuinely caring and decent person" -- will go a long way. Doing it right, which includes addressing the economic concerns of stereotypical "white working class" heroes, should help sway those voters who swung from Obama to Trump. How many interviews with Trumpsters have you seen where they say "Trump cares about us"? Some of that may be racial or nationalistic, but more than anything else I think it's based on kitchen table economics.
Comcast/MSNBC held a huge fundraiser for Biden immediately after his announcement to run.
he basically went straight there after the announcement.
this got 2 seconds of coverage in the media, but should be a huge story.
both MSNBC and CNN (Comcast and AT&T) are pushing Biden hard all day every day, but most of all are "anybody but Bernie", as they are very anti MFA and net neutrality, for obvious reasons.
Biden also has a ton of foreign policy experience, has been a strong negotiator in getting bills passed in Congress, and connects well with the general public - which is an important driver in being able to bring about some of the liberal reform priorities.
I'm not all in on any candidate, but I'd be very happy with a Biden/Harris ticket as it does a lot to set the table for future liberal agenda items.
Biden's comment about civility was no gaffe, it was merely faux fodder for a bunch of "front-running" candidates who can't connect with voters as Biden can. Biden spoke the truth -- civility is missing, and it's missing primarily on the Republican side, starting with Trump and McConnell. Civility is a good feather in Biden's cap and I hope he doesn't cave to liberal bullshitters who don't have anything useful to say.
Although this thread is entitled electability, a better word might be connectability. What liberal candidate other than Biden connects? Buttigieg does. I can't think of another. Not connecting was precisely Hillary's problem. Good luck nominating another candidate who can't connect with everyday voters.
Over the past few days, what we've seen is nothing short of a full-on media dogpile on Biden.
His statements on James Eastland, a segregationist he served in the Senate with, were just the start. Then, it turned into a public feud with Booker, who is also a candidate in the Democratic primary.
And now, we have stories with staffers saying they tried to warn Biden about making these statements and keeping him from making other problematic gaffes, more on his time with racists and segregationists in Washington, and even a piece at Politico titled "Grandpa Simpson runs for president."
His statements on James Eastland, a segregationist he served in the Senate with, were just the start. Then, it turned into a public feud with Booker, who is also a candidate in the Democratic primary.
And now, we have stories with staffers saying they tried to warn Biden about making these statements and keeping him from making other problematic gaffes, more on his time with racists and segregationists in Washington, and even a piece at Politico titled "Grandpa Simpson runs for president."
Biden-Harris sounds like a strong ticket.
Your points are well taken (GASP!). Just as happened on the other side in 2016, I believe we'll see an intra-party blood letting. Both parties will do that to their own, you know. Yo won' be able to judge the viability of any Dem candidate for President until maximum influence of attack ads by their own party members is in effect. It is likely that at lease some of those candidates will be entirely disabled by the attacks on them by others of their ranks. Even those still in the race will be bloodied and the last standing may well be the Dem winner but damaged to the extent of unelectability. In any event, its way too early and thee are way to many candidates to sort out any sense of it yet.
Last edited:
Biden's problem is, unlike Trump, he gives a shit about the barking cur dogs. He shouldn't. He was right on busing. It's better to fix all communities than bus a few lottery winners. This kerfuffle is telling me exactly which Dem candidates are assholes and it's not Biden.
You have to have some common sense about the examples you use, though, because people will always read too much into it.
If his example had been his ability to work with Republicans like John McCain, nobody bats an eye, and he delivers the same idea of being someone who can work with people that he disagrees with.
When you bring up someone so disgusting, though, it invites the criticism he's gotten
You could be right about the Dem candidate being so beat up during the primaries that even a untraditional president such as Trump wins.
When I call Trump "untraditional" I mean he is unlike any president which I can recall. I don't mean his politics as much as not conforming to behaving presidential.
Having said that, we all have our own perceptions about being "presidential".
So on my view, whoever wins in 2020 will be the person who the electorate in the states which adds up to an electoral college majority (270 or more) thinks is more "presidential".
The worst part being in what I foresee as the most negative mudslinging campaign in history is that whoever wins will be a loser in the minds of all too many.
if your a Republican maybe.
Biden, like Hilary before him, is already bought and owned by big money, big telecom, (including Comcast and AT&T), big healthcare/pharma, (no MFA, thus more cripplingly over expensive coverage and being tied to you job), and the big banks, (why average credit card interest rates are approaching 20%).
Large percentage of Democrats appear to disagree with you. But I bet you have your own definition of what a real Democrat is, don’t you?
no, but i do have a definition of what an economic liberal is, and Biden nor you are one.
nor is today's DNC.
the Dems aren't going to win squat on bathroom choice for trans, or reparations, or never ending victimhood.. those positions are political suicide, which is why Comcast and AT&T push them 24/7 on MSNBC and CNN.
i don't back parties, which are now both owned by the same big money.
i care only about policies.
Last edited:
And no one is running on those. You are Bernie or bust. You’re going to be sorely disappointed.
I'd like to see Buttigieg as somebody's VP running mate, so that I can see a Pence-Buttigieg debate
Do you think Pence will stay on the ticket? I am not sure he serves Trump's purpose any longer.
Mother has been unhappy from the day the Access Hollywood tape came out. This latest rape accusation isn't going to help. Regardless, Mike has sold his soul, so he'll be on the ticket if Trump wants him. The only one I can think of that could/would replace him that would make Trump any more palatable to a wider constituency might be Haley, but I think she's smarter than that. Her time will come later.
Good question.
First thought...was about W and his early realization that the religious right held the keys to the White House (for him).
Second thought...the president could go full tilt nepo and nominate a family member to build up the brand name.
Third thought ....I'm starting to clench my teeth ...again.
Good question.
First thought...was about W and his early realization that the religious right held the keys to the White House (for him).
Second thought...the president could go full tilt nepo and nominate a family member to build up the brand name.
Third thought ....I'm starting to clench my teeth ...again.
Haley would be my first guess, but if Ivanka changes her voting state than Pence needs to look for new housing.
I think Trump will want someone who could get elected after him, and I really really really do not think anyone believes that is Pence. But having coattails like that would stroke Trump's ego. Neither Clinton nor Obama could carry to a next term.
Haley is smarter than that I think. She needs to wait until 2024 (after a first Dem term) at the earliest. And by your lack of coattails observation, she'd be best to be looking at 2028.
The Pubs are really worried about Biden, as an opponent to Trump. As a result the Club For Growth is primed to engage in one of the most cynical campaign ploys I've heard of. It's one thing to run ads attacking a candidate for opposing programs/ policies you support- everybody does that. But the CFG is set to run anti-Biden ads during the Dem debate,in which they (CFG) attacks Biden for his past support of policies they (CFG) CURRENTLY support... McIntosh at work...
"Club for Growth, whose stated top policy goals include reducing income tax rates, a full repeal of Obamacare and reducing the size of the federal government, will never back a Democrat for president. However, it is wading into the Democratic primary likely because Biden poses the greatest risk to Republican President Donald Trump's reelection bid. Early national polling and surveys in important swing states have repeatedly shown Biden besting Trump in a hypothetical match up.
Club for Growth's poll found voters are less inclined to vote for Biden if they were told he previously had taken positions that include opposing slavery reparations and busing of school children as part of desegregation systems."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-attack-ads-featuring-comments-134108679.html
For all his moral preening, those supposedly in the know have consistently said that Pence's singular motivating drive is his belief that he will one day be president. No matter what Trump does, so long as Pence thinks hitching his wagon to Trump improves his chances of attaining this goal, he will do just that.Good question.
First thought...was about W and his early realization that the religious right held the keys to the White House (for him).
Second thought...the president could go full tilt nepo and nominate a family member to build up the brand name.
Third thought ....I'm starting to clench my teeth ...again.
Believes as if it's preordained?
If that's true I hope he gets
crushed like a bug.
I'm a Democrat who wants a Democrat to beat Trump. If it takes Biden to do it in 2020 then I'm for Biden. I prefer one of the younger and more progressive candidates and if it becomes clear that one of them can beat Trump I'm all in. But that might be too big of a step left for too many Americans and Biden might not be. Biden will take positive steps toward more progressive policies and reverse many Trump policies and set the stage for one of those more progressive and younger candidates in 2024.
Joe, Pete and Amy are the three that are likeable and can connect.
Gained some respect for Joe this AM when I saw him go toe to toe with and actual racist; Sharpton.
I agree with those three. I think Cory and Kamala are likable too, but seems like they aren’t connecting the way I expected.
Yeah, but Amy is totally connecting.
I'm fairly sure courtsense mistakes "can connect" for "can connect with him."
Yeah, but Amy is totally connecting.
I'm fairly sure courtsense mistakes "can connect" for "can connect with him."
I said likeable. Some folks are not likeable but can connect with others of like mind. Trump and Hillary are not likeable in the least, but both connect with certain groups of "individuals".
