E Fitzner

[Tasmanian Devil]

You must not be very good with percentages.

Sure, you can win a championship with only two 5 stars on your team, but the percentages get better the more you have.

Let’s make it simpler. If you had a ticket in a raffle for the same prize...would you rather have 1 out of 10 total tickets or 1 out of 100?

Let’s take a look at how Villanova recruiting since 2012 (original class toward their 2016 title) compares with Duke & Kentucky from that same time period.

RSCI Recruit Rankings – Top 25

2012
Villanova: 0
Duke: 1 (Amile Jefferson 21)
Kentucky: 3 (Nerlens Noel 1; Alex Poythress 8; Archie Goodwin 10)

2013
Villanova: 0
Duke: 1 (Jabari Parker 3)
Kentucky: 6 (Julius Randle 2; Andrew Harrison 5; Aaron Harrison 6; James Young T9; Dakari Johnson T9; Marcus Lee 18)

2014
Villanova: 1 (Jalen Brunson – 19)
Duke: 4 (Jahlil Okafor 1, Tyus Jones 7, Justise Winslow 13; Grayson Allen 24)
Kentucky: 4 (Karl-Anthony Towns 5; Trey Lyles 12; Tyler Ulis 18; Devin Booker 23)

2015
Villanova: 0
Duke: 4 (Brandon Ingram 4; Derryck Thorton 13; Chase Jeter 14; Luke Kennard 21)
Kentucky: 2 (Skal Labissiere 2; Isaiah Briscoe 11)

2016
Villanova: 1 (Omari Spellman – 17)
Duke: 4 (Harry Giles 2; Jayson Tatum T3; Marques Bolden 11; Frank Johnson 14)
Kentucky: 5 (De’Aaron Fox 6; Bam Adebayo 8; Mailk Monk 9; Wenyen Gabriel 13; Sacha Killeya-Jones T21)

2017
Villanova: 0
Duke: 4 (Marvin Bagley, Jr 1; Trevon Duval 5; Wendell Carter 7; Gary Trent, Jr. T14)
Kentucky: 5 (Kevin Knox 10; Jarred Vanderbilt 13; PJ Washington 14; Nick Richards 18; Quade Green 23)

Count em - Villanova had 2.

Duke - 18

Kentucky - 25

UK and Duke had lots of great talent. But where is the benefit?

OR . . . . just maybe, it's something BEYOND just talent? Hmmmmm . . .

 

[fpeaugh]

Uhm, you must not be very good at percentages. Villanova has won two of the last three NCAA titles. That’s 66.66%. IU’s incoming class is rated higher than any of Villanova’s classes on those teams. Thus the incoming IU class is a class capable of winning a title. Not sure where the disconnect is with you. I think you just thrive off of negativity

I never said they couldn’t win. Just said the odds increase the better you stack classes. I’d like to improve our odds.

 

[fpeaugh]

Let's take this a step further.

Last year, Duke had an incredible freshman class. Some pundits were picking Coach K's crew to possibly go undefeated. Yet they didn't even get to the Final Four.

After the season, we found out from Wendell Carter's mom that they felt slighted when Marvin Bagley, Jr. was signed by Duke - Wendell was no longer the "showpiece".

Think Carter might have had his own agenda? One quote I remember from Brad Stevens was how important it was to have "everyone pulling in the same direction." I get how you want talented players, but when you're getting all the top 10-15 talents like Duke, UK, et al . . . you might also be getting baggage you don't want.

Let’s also take a look at how Villanova recruited since 2012 (original class toward their 2016 title)

RSCI Recruit Rankings

2012
Daniel Ochefu – T44
Ryan Arcidiacono - 55

2013
Kris Jenkins – 78
Josh Hart – 94 (selected 30th in 2017 NBA Draft)

2014
Phil Booth – T84
Mikal Bridges – 96 (selected 10th in 2018 NBA Draft)

2015
Jalen Brunson – 19 (selected 33rd in 2018 NBA Draft)

2016
Omari Spellman – 17 (selected 30th in 2018 NBA Draft)

2017
Jermaine Samuels – 45
Dhamir Cosby-Roundtree – 74

Highest player was Spellman at #17. Yet, somehow, Jay Wright managed to win 2 of the last 3 National Championships. Damn shame he can't recruit any better . . .

They had 2 five star recruits last year and another one coming in this year. They don’t win with 3 star recruits.

And Villanova is the anomaly not the norm. How did they do the 20 years prior to 2016?

Said another way, how many schools besides Villanova recruit like that and win titles? How many recruit like UK, Duke, Kansas, etc and win titles? A LOT higher percentage.

 

[speroni]

But I want to compete for titles. That’s why we’ll have to recruit better going forward.

I never said they couldn’t win.

That's pretty much exactly what you said. And it was just shown that the recruiting we just did really is enough to win titles. I don't know what the hell you are talking about!

 

[fpeaugh]

That's pretty much exactly what you said. And it was just shown that the recruiting we just did really is enough to win titles. I don't know what the hell you are talking about!

You could point to Butler and say you COULD win a title by recruiting a bunch of no name 2 and 3 star recruits. It COULD happen. But some of us want to improve our odds.

 

[speroni]

You could point to Butler and say you COULD win a title by recruiting a bunch of no name 2 and 3 star recruits. It COULD happen. But some of us want to improve our odds.

You don't seem to get it... It doesn't improve our odds. No one is talking about 2 or 3 star recruits. You said we need to recruit BETTER than Archie's last class. That wasn't a class of 2 and 3 star no names. It was a class equal or better than most any other Final Four squad would recruit. As good if not better (as has been shown) as any of Villanova's classes. Let's look at recent Final Four teams, shall we?

2018: Villanova, Michigan, Kansas, Loyola-Chicago (care to compare our recruits against ANY of the classes from three of the four schools there?)

2017: UNC, Gonzaga, Oregon, South Carolina (same comment)

2016: Villanova, UNC, Oklahoma, Syracuse (same comment)

In other words, our last recruiting class was every bit as good as three out of four schools classes that made the Final Four the past three years. Tell me again why Archie needs to recruit better. Because I'm not seeing it.

And please note... those incredible classes from UK and Duke. If it's such a good idea to be like them, why haven't they been to a Final Four the past three years?

 

[fpeaugh]

You don't seem to get it... It doesn't improve our odds. No one is talking about 2 or 3 star recruits. You said we need to recruit BETTER than Archie's last class. That wasn't a class of 2 and 3 star no names. It was a class equal or better than most any other Final Four squad would recruit. As good if not better (as has been shown) as any of Villanova's classes. Let's look at recent Final Four teams, shall we?

2018: Villanova, Michigan, Kansas, Loyola-Chicago (care to compare our recruits against ANY of the classes from three of the four schools there?)

2017: UNC, Gonzaga, Oregon, South Carolina (same comment)

2016: Villanova, UNC, Oklahoma, Syracuse (same comment)

In other words, our last recruiting class was every bit as good as three out of four schools classes that made the Final Four the past three years. Tell me again why Archie needs to recruit better. Because I'm not seeing it.

And please note... those incredible classes from UK and Duke. If it's such a good idea to be like them, why haven't they been to a Final Four the past three years?

You’re listing a bunch of schools that make a run once every 20 years. Those are a dime a dozen. It’s easy to point out the combination of 100 schools who do more combined than 4-5 schools, but which of those teams have made more Final Fours over the last 10-20 years than UK, Kansas, Duke, UNC?

We’re one team. Not a combination of 100 mediocre ones. Consistency is key.

 

[Hoosier Hacker]

You don't seem to get it... It doesn't improve our odds. No one is talking about 2 or 3 star recruits. You said we need to recruit BETTER than Archie's last class. That wasn't a class of 2 and 3 star no names. It was a class equal or better than most any other Final Four squad would recruit. As good if not better (as has been shown) as any of Villanova's classes. Let's look at recent Final Four teams, shall we?

2018: Villanova, Michigan, Kansas, Loyola-Chicago (care to compare our recruits against ANY of the classes from three of the four schools there?)

2017: UNC, Gonzaga, Oregon, South Carolina (same comment)

2016: Villanova, UNC, Oklahoma, Syracuse (same comment)

In other words, our last recruiting class was every bit as good as three out of four schools classes that made the Final Four the past three years. Tell me again why Archie needs to recruit better. Because I'm not seeing it.

And please note... those incredible classes from UK and Duke. If it's such a good idea to be like them, why haven't they been to a Final Four the past three years?

My other thought, when looking at the list of 25 UK players that were 5-stars (many of whom went straight to the NBA after one year) was: "Outside of Karl Anthony Towns and maybe Devin Booker, man, that's a lot of over-hyped benchwarmers and/or guys who never even stuck in the league." Not only is the wholesale one-and-done model not really helping these programs succeed at the highest level, it doesn't look like it's doing a great service for these kids' long-term careers, when you compare their (lack of) success overall with many of the league's truly elite stars. A majority of those players were 3- and 4-year players who matured while still in college and were picked later in the first round (as a result of being so "old").

 

[MG80]

Villa

Great class. But not on the level of duke, Kansas, UK, etc. Archie knows that. It was his first class. Need to continue the momentum.

Villanova is just the most recent team that has proven you don’t have to recruit like Duke and Kansas to win titles. A star or two surrounded by good players who execute on offense and play great team defense make for excellent teams. Rob is absolutely part of that equation, as is several of his fellow youngsters.

 

[plaxico80]

Green needs to reign in his play and quit going for the home run play and make the plays that need to be made. It's not even up for debate as he, his teammates and his Coach have recognized that and stated it in interviews. Last year was a very limited roster, so some of that may be true, but equally true is knowing your teammates, and their abilities, preferences and likes and getting them the ball when and where they can be successful.

Green is far from perfect. At times, he was downright horrific but what I said is 100% true.

A good number of Green's turnovers happened because he was throwing good passes to bad basketball players.

In other words, watch how different the perception of Green is, this season. So many of Green's passes this year will turn into buckets.

Last year, they were sure turnovers.

Watch.

 

[fpeaugh]

Villa

Villanova is just the most recent team that has proven you don’t have to recruit like Duke and Kansas to win titles. A star or two surrounded by good players who execute on offense and play great team defense make for excellent teams. Rob is absolutely part of that equation, as is several of his fellow youngsters.

Your description could describe 20-30 teams each year. Not just Nova. And very few of them win big consistently. The most consistent winners follow the same formula...have more talent regardless of age.

John Wooden said it best...give me talent over experience every time. Yes, THE John Wooden said that. And Coach K, Cal, Self, and every other coach agrees. But I guess some posters on here know more than all the big name coaches. *eye roll*

 

[speroni]

Your description could describe 20-30 teams each year. Not just Nova. And very few of them win big consistently. The most consistent winners follow the same formula...have more talent regardless of age.

John Wooden said it best...give me talent over experience every time. Yes, THE John Wooden said that. And Coach K, Cal, Self, and every other coach agrees. But I guess some posters on here know more than all the big name coaches. *eye roll*

And the team which is considered to have the most talent coming out of high school wins the NCAA... how often? You keep talking about Kansas and Kentucky and how impressive their classes have been. And yet each school has won once this century. Look at the schools with multiple trips to the Final Four this century - Duke and UNC have had their share, but so have UConn and Florida (both who has more championships than either UK or KU this century). Most championships this century? Duke and UConn with three. Yes, Duke usually has top classes, but UConn? I'm guessing similar to Villanova or IU's last class. Wisconsin with three Final Fours, and I doubt you'd find many people that would say they had the best talent in the B1G, much less the country.

Final Four appearances this century:
UNC - 6
Michigan State - 6
Kansas - 5
Florida - 4
UConn - 4
Duke - 4
UK - 4
Villanova - 3
Wisconsin - 3


No one here is saying you don't need talent to win. What many people ARE saying is that you don't need the number one recruiting class in the nation to win. Again, you stated that Archie needs better classes than this year's recruiting class if he expects us to compete for a national title. And that's just total BS. We've shown you that isn't the case, and yet you still seem to think it is, based on... well, I have no idea what you base it on. History shows that's not the case. If Archie's classes continue to be similar to how he's already recruited for us, IU should be in very good shape every year. But feel free to continue your negative thinking. I'm done wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[kkott]

You’re listing a bunch of schools that make a run once every 20 years. Those are a dime a dozen. It’s easy to point out the combination of 100 schools who do more combined than 4-5 schools, but which of those teams have made more Final Fours over the last 10-20 years than UK, Kansas, Duke, UNC?

We’re one team. Not a combination of 100 mediocre ones. Consistency is key.

No, he's listing the F4 participants from the last 3 years, not randomly pulling out schools selectively to support his point. The facts support his point... that's the point!

 

[fpeaugh]

No, he's listing the F4 participants from the last 3 years, not randomly pulling out schools selectively to support his point. The facts support his point... that's the point!

No he’s not.

You want us to be Michigan? Loyola Chicago? Gonzaga? Oklahoma? South Carolina? You want us to be like those schools?

I want consistency. Not lightning in a bottle once every 10 years.

Last year’s class was consistent with a Crean class. We’re much more likely to get Crean results than Jay Wright results. Most schools who result 4 star type kids have Crean results, not Villanova. Those are the odds.

 

[37Hoosier]

No he’s not.

You want us to be Michigan? Loyola Chicago? Gonzaga? Oklahoma? South Carolina? You want us to be like those schools?

I want consistency. Not lightning in a bottle once every 10 years.

Last year’s class was consistent with a Crean class. We’re much more likely to get Crean results than Jay Wright results. Most schools who result 4 star type kids have Crean results, not Villanova. Those are the odds.

We only wished Crean had the kind of classes Archie had in his first year...other than the one time he did, and he fkd that up royally. Syracuse plays a zone? Since when?

 

[speroni]

No he’s not.

You want us to be Michigan? Loyola Chicago? Gonzaga? Oklahoma? South Carolina? You want us to be like those schools?

I want consistency. Not lightning in a bottle once every 10 years.

Last year’s class was consistent with a Crean class. We’re much more likely to get Crean results than Jay Wright results. Most schools who result 4 star type kids have Crean results, not Villanova. Those are the odds.

Seriously? A Crean class? Where is the Priller? The Jobe? The Muniru? The... need I go on? And you think that coaching ability has nothing to do with it as well? Where's your head, man?

 

[fpeaugh]

We only wished Crean had the kind of classes Archie had in his first year...other than the one time he did, and he fkd that up royally. Syracuse plays a zone? Since when?

Seriously? A Crean class? Where is the Priller? The Jobe? The Muniru? The... need I go on? And you think that coaching ability has nothing to do with it as well? Where's your head, man?

Nearly every class Crean would land one 5 star McD AA type, one high rated 4 star, another low end 4 star, and then a low end 3 star/ unranked type.

That’s not good enough. Teams like Michigan or Oklahoma recruit like this. Elite programs stack classes with multiple stars.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Last year’s class was consistent with a Crean class.

C'mon, fpeaugh, you're better than this.

 

[T.M.P.]

C'mon, fpeaugh, you're better than this.

No he's not.

 

[MG80]

No he’s not.

You want us to be Michigan? Loyola Chicago? Gonzaga? Oklahoma? South Carolina? You want us to be like those schools?

I want consistency. Not lightning in a bottle once every 10 years.

Last year’s class was consistent with a Crean class. We’re much more likely to get Crean results than Jay Wright results. Most schools who result 4 star type kids have Crean results, not Villanova. Those are the odds.

I got news for you. Nova is that good because their coaching is that good. Wright has smart players who execute to a T. No need for a roster of 5 stars. Billy Donovan, Brad Stevens, John Beilein, Bob Higgins, Chris Mack and many others (including Archie in time) are masters who know how to construct and develop highly competitive squads who consistently at least give you a shot at going very deep in the tournament.
If you look at talent alone, you have to be scratching your head at why the carpetbagger at Kentucky isn’t winning more titles. Maybe it’s because talent alone doesn’t always get it done.
PS why don’t you back off from the ‘eye roll’ type comments and try getting over yourself a little. You’ll get more respect here for it.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Nearly every class Crean would land one 5 star McD AA type, one high rated 4 star, another low end 4 star, and then a low end 3 star/ unranked type.

That’s not good enough. Teams like Michigan or Oklahoma recruit like this. Elite programs stack classes with multiple stars.

I call BS

Look at it yourself:

2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017

Again, fpeaugh, you're better than this. Extremely poor comparison on your part.

 

[fpeaugh]

I call BS

Look at it yourself:

2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017

Again, fpeaugh, you're better than this. Extremely poor comparison on your part.

From 2011-2015 I stand by my comment. We had a 5 star and a couple 4 stars in most of those classes.

 

[fpeaugh]

I got news for you. Nova is that good because their coaching is that good. Wright has smart players who execute to a T. No need for a roster of 5 stars. Billy Donovan, Brad Stevens, John Beilein, Bob Higgins, Chris Mack and many others (including Archie in time) are masters who know how to construct and develop highly competitive squads who consistently at least give you a shot at going very deep in the tournament.
If you look at talent alone, you have to be scratching your head at why the carpetbagger at Kentucky isn’t winning more titles. Maybe it’s because talent alone doesn’t always get it done.
PS why don’t you back off from the ‘eye roll’ type comments and try getting over yourself a little. You’ll get more respect here for it.

There’s no evidence Archie is as good of a coach/developer as any of those coaches. We all hope he is, but right now that’s uncertain.

And Cal has been to 4-5 Final Fours in the last decade at UK. Get there consistently and you’re putting yourself in a position to win. That’s all you can ask for.

 

[speroni]

There’s no evidence Archie is as good of a coach/developer as any of those coaches. We all hope he is, but right now that’s uncertain.

And Cal has been to 4-5 Final Fours in the last decade at UK. Get there consistently and you’re putting yourself in a position to win. That’s all you can ask for.

If Archie ISN'T that good, then what are we doing here? That's why we hired him. You give Crean Cal's recruits, and you still get a Sweet 16. It's the coach as much as the players.

Cal has been to four Final Fours this century. So has Florida and UConn. And they've both won more titles. Izzo has been to six. This current class is putting us in a position to win if we have the coach we think we have. If we don't, the best recruiting class in the world isn't going to get us there.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

From 2011-2015 I stand by my comment. We had a 5 star and a couple 4 stars in most of those classes.

Huh?

2011 - Cody 5 Stars; Remy and Austin both 3 Stars
2012 - Yogi 4 star; Hanner and Hollowell both OVERATED 4 stars
2013 - Vonleh 5 Star, Troy and Luke (who was run off by the dope smokers) 4 star
2014 - JBJr and Robert 4 stars (don't forget Max, April & Priller)
2015 - TB and Juwan 4 stars; OG 3 star

Just HOW in the Sam Hell do you get a "5 Star" in most of those classes? We had two - and a bunch of guys to write home about . . .

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

If Archie ISN'T that good, then what are we doing here? That's why we hired him. You give Crean Cal's recruits, and you still get a Sweet 16. It's the coach as much as the players.

Cal has been to four Final Fours this century. So has Florida and UConn. And they've both won more titles. Izzo has been to six. This current class is putting us in a position to win if we have the coach we think we have. If we don't, the best recruiting class in the world isn't going to get us there.

If one looks at the rosters of the teams playing for the championship since 2010 (which is when Calipari started this whole 1-and-done craze - most every team there relied on veteran players. Even in 2012 and 2015 (when both UK and Duke won with featured 1-and-dones) there were key veteran players who played a pivotal part (Darius Miller; Quinn Cook).

If we want to emulate anyone, it would be Nova from the past 5-6. Or Duke prior to 2014. Get a 5 star if they fit your culture; get plenty of good 4 stars and DEVELOP them into teams to be reckoned with.

That is the BEST formula for sustained long-term success. Getting your roster turned over year-after-year leave you perpetually young and vulnerable the deeper you get into the NCAA Tournament.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

My other thought, when looking at the list of 25 UK players that were 5-stars (many of whom went straight to the NBA after one year) was: "Outside of Karl Anthony Towns and maybe Devin Booker, man, that's a lot of over-hyped benchwarmers and/or guys who never even stuck in the league." Not only is the wholesale one-and-done model not really helping these programs succeed at the highest level, it doesn't look like it's doing a great service for these kids' long-term careers, when you compare their (lack of) success overall with many of the league's truly elite stars. A majority of those players were 3- and 4-year players who matured while still in college and were picked later in the first round (as a result of being so "old").

Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, and John Wall are pretty good too.

You could make an argument that 5 of the Top 25 players in the league played at UK under Cal.

20% of the leagues best players? Not bad for one College program. Your theory stinks.....

 

[37Hoosier]

Nearly every class Crean would land one 5 star McD AA type, one high rated 4 star, another low end 4 star, and then a low end 3 star/ unranked type.

That’s not good enough. Teams like Michigan or Oklahoma recruit like this. Elite programs stack classes with multiple stars.

Your an idiot.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Your an idiot.

Not taking issue with what I imagine to be your sentiment, but calling someone an idiot works better when you don't spell like one.

 

[fpeaugh]

If Archie ISN'T that good, then what are we doing here? That's why we hired him. You give Crean Cal's recruits, and you still get a Sweet 16. It's the coach as much as the players.

Cal has been to four Final Fours this century. So has Florida and UConn. And they've both won more titles. Izzo has been to six. This current class is putting us in a position to win if we have the coach we think we have. If we don't, the best recruiting class in the world isn't going to get us there.

I like what you did there. Cal has actually been to 6 Final Fours in 22 years. A couple different bounces and he could have 3-4 titles. And he’s only coached at a Power 5 school for 10 years. By comparison Coach K has only been to 5 Final Fours in that time period.

You also conveniently left off that Izzo only has one title in twice as many years coaching.

We don’t know who Archie is yet. There’s no basis to criticize or crown him yet. Give it time.

 

[fpeaugh]

Huh?

2011 - Cody 5 Stars; Remy and Austin both 3 Stars
2012 - Yogi 4 star; Hanner and Hollowell both OVERATED 4 stars
2013 - Vonleh 5 Star, Troy and Luke (who was run off by the dope smokers) 4 star
2014 - JBJr and Robert 4 stars (don't forget Max, April & Priller)
2015 - TB and Juwan 4 stars; OG 3 star

Just HOW in the Sam Hell do you get a "5 Star" in most of those classes? We had two - and a bunch of guys to write home about . . .

Yogi, JBJ, and TB were all 5 stars by most publications. And they all played in the McD game. That’s 5 straight years of having a McD AA. And it doesn’t matter what you say about overrated 4 stars. We don’t know if this class is overrated yet. You just compare bodies to bodies coming out of HS and it’s similar.

 

[fpeaugh]

Your an idiot.

YOU’RE not very good at the English language.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Yogi, JBJ, and TB were all 5 stars by most publications. And they all played in the McD game. That’s 5 straight years of having a McD AA. And it doesn’t matter what you say about overrated 4 stars. We don’t know if this class is overrated yet. You just compare bodies to bodies coming out of HS and it’s similar.

Again - for all those OAD's, what does Calipari have to show for it?

One title.

He hasn't been to a Final Four in 3 years - despite having either the top or 2nd best recruiting class every year. Yet you want that?

 

[fpeaugh]

Again - for all those OAD's, what does Calipari have to show for it?

One title.

He hasn't been to a Final Four in 3 years - despite having either the top or 2nd best recruiting class every year. Yet you want that?

Ummmm let’s see. If you told me in the next 9 years we could go to 6 Elite 8s, 4 Final Fours, play in 2 title games, and hang a new banner (which we haven’t done in over 30 years). Would I take that? Yes, I guess I would.

Yet you DON’T want that?

Come on. You’re letting your hate for the guy cloud any ounce of reasoning you should be applying here.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Ummmm let’s see. If you told me in the next 9 years we could go to 6 Elite 8s, 4 Final Fours, play in 2 title games, and hang a new banner (which we haven’t done in over 30 years). Would I take that? Yes, I guess I would.

Yet you DON’T want that?

Come on. You’re letting your hate for the guy cloud any ounce of reasoning you should be applying here.

It's not hate. We've been thru this before.

From 2010-15, Cal went to 4 FF and one E8.

Since? 1 E8 - despite having all those OAD's. Turning over his roster every year caught up to him - and the fact that Duke got in on the OAD game.

Your 5 year sample was an anomaly. Cal isn't going to ever recruit that well again. He might get all the #1 / #2 ranked classes, but if they're leaving every year he'll have the same perpetual problem, He hasn't recruited a transcendental OAD since KAT, and if you're gonna rely on the OAD you better have damn good ones. Not just really good ones.

You say Villanova doesn't win with 3 stars - yet you discount how many low 4 stars they've turned into stars. Guys like Mikal Bridges. Donte DiVincenzo. Josh Hart. And how about the solid role players like Kris Jenkins, Ryan Arcidiacono, Phil Booth? The highest rated among any of those guys was Arcidiacono (#55). How many guys does Cal develop like this - ever? Answer - he doesn't.

Can Archie be this kind of developer? Still a work in progress. But if he can bring in classes similar to this year's freshman class we'll be just fine if he can develop them. Past history at Dayton lends one to thin k he can.

 

[fpeaugh]

Put another way, Cal has been past the Sweet 16 as many times since 2009 as we have since Gerald Ford was president in the 70s. And as many Final Fours and National Titles since Reagan’s first year in office in the early 80s.

For you youngsters, Ford was president in the mid 70s between Nixon and Carter.

But no, we don’t want anything to do with that. Nope...we don’t want those results.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Put another way, Cal has been past the Sweet 16 as many times since 2009 as we have since Gerald Ford was president in the 70s. And as many Final Fours and National Titles since Reagan’s first year in office in the early 80s.

For you youngsters, Ford was president in the mid 70s between Nixon and Carter.

But no, we don’t want anything to do with that. Nope...we don’t want those results.

Put it another way - we had an imbecile at the helm from 2009-2017.

 

[fpeaugh]

It's not hate. We've been thru this before.

From 2010-15, Cal went to 4 FF and one E8.

Since? 1 E8 - despite having all those OAD's. Turning over his roster every year caught up to him - and the fact that Duke got in on the OAD game.

Your 5 year sample was an anomaly. Cal isn't going to ever recruit that well again. He might get all the #1 / #2 ranked classes, but if they're leaving every year he'll have the same perpetual problem, He hasn't recruited a transcendental OAD since KAT, and if you're gonna rely on the OAD you better have damn good ones. Not just really good ones.

You say Villanova doesn't win with 3 stars - yet you discount how many low 4 stars they've turned into stars. Guys like Mikal Bridges. Donte DiVincenzo. Josh Hart. And how about the solid role players like Kris Jenkins, Ryan Arcidiacono, Phil Booth? The highest rated among any of those guys was Arcidiacono (#55). How many guys does Cal develop like this - ever? Answer - he doesn't.

Can Archie be this kind of developer? Still a work in progress. But if he can bring in classes similar to this year's freshman class we'll be just fine if he can develop them. Past history at Dayton lends one to thin k he can.

So much wrong with this.

So you’re claiming Cal has fallen off because he’s ONLY made 1 Elite 8 in 3 years? Before these two titles Jay Wright didn’t even make the Sweet 16 for 6 straight years.

And Archie made it to the Sweet 16 once in 6 seasons at Dayton. But this past history lends you to believe he can coach/develop like Wright? Ummmm ok.

 

[fpeaugh]

Put it another way - we had an imbecile at the helm from 2009-2017.

Gerald Ford was dead by the time Crean arrived at IU. I had to go all the way back to the mid 70s to match what Cal has accomplished in 9 years. When Crean was 10 years old. You’re missing 40 years of basketball here.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Again - for all those OAD's, what does Calipari have to show for it?

One title.

If this is our metric then Self and Izzo are overrated as well.