I don't disagree with the premise of losing the fan base...but neither CTC or Arch ever lost the fan base in the first 3 years. Woodie only started to lose it during last years skid AND the same fans held their breath and hoped he bought the right team to pull us back up. He fully lost me in the Bahamas this year. There's not enough money in the world to make him a good coach, IMO.
Dusty May
- Thread starter stollcpa
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Huh? Archie lost the fanbase during the stretch where he lost 12/13 games in year 2. He actually had a pretty good season year 3 but nobody cared and the season abruptly ended.
There was an absolute mutiny in the middle of last season with the IU media and Woodson. You had people with access to the program feeding rumors to national insiders that Woodson was getting fired in favor of Bruce Pearl.
Here's a tip - the reader can't tell you're being sarcastic (unless you say so).
HNY to all!
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Fans turned on him 1) because he's smug and arrogant, 2) doesn't appear to be putting his all in to his work, and 3) and primarily, because he's not winning to the level of expectations of this job, and his own pronouncements: "I'm here to compete for conference and national championships". IU has won 5 NCs, and I'd guess from last year is top 5 in NIL $. I don't know beans about Auburn football's situation, but you think they are in the same situation: has a history as a NC/top tier team (I don't think so, outside of one Cam Newton, but maybe I'm wrong?), and top 5ish in NIL? I seriously doubt it with the likes of Bama, UT, UT, LSU, NB, OK, OSU, A&M, UM, UF, UGA, Clemson, Ole Miss, ND, etc... running around. They may not be top 5 in the SEC.
The problem with bball is that coaches just don't move that much, the good or promising ones get poison-pilled with buyouts and the experienced ones that do get burned out jump to the NBA. It's just very hard to get a top tier name to come coach your program, ie. why UK ended up with alum Mark Pope and UL ended up with Pat Kelsey. That's likely what we need to do, find a promising up and comer like Drake's coach, unless someone like Pearl or Beard really want to come to IU and is one of their dream jobs. It's the landscape (and possibly the admin), but it's not the expectations of the job that would keep people away. Anyone coming to a program with top tier aspirations knows they have to win, and win quickly. Ask Kalen DeBoer what he thinks his grace period will be (hint: he just used it going 9-3 and finishing outside the CFP).
And there is that part about he lied to the NCAA. I get why most don't care, but IU went down that road once before and it destroyed the program. Seems best to avoid doing it again.
Ballo, Galloway and Rice have been on fire the last couple games. Goode is now contributing much more than earlier in the season.
What changed, in your opinion? You say the coaches "can't seem to get the most out of the players," so what was it that caused the change in those four players?
It’s the players that aren’t producing that’s the main issue(MM/KC). MM has all the talent, but doesn’t look like a team player to me! He looks like he doesn’t care and does what ever he wants. His ass needs to be glued to the bench while Tucker takes his minutes. KC just looks like he belongs in D2.
Two of those coaches had ZERO college head coaching experience and another (best since RMK) was let go for non basketball reasons. The current coach had no reason whatsoever to be hired as HC at IU. Guys like you mentioned above believe they can win anywhere, unlike the current thin skinned coach at IU.
Your response had nothing to do coaching ability and demonstrates that certain undertones still remain within this fanbase.
Two things immediately jump to mind: 1) soft schedule. I doubt we've played a tournament team yet in the B10, or one that will finish top half. 2) The biggest coaching adjustment was the staff responding to losing their best player, which finally forced us to play 1 big as so many have been clamoring for. You might, but I don't give CMW much credit for that "move". Heck, I think it's still questionable if he'll stick with one big when MR returns. I do expect him to start both, and don't have a problem with that, but after that initial stint, I hope he'll rotate MR and OB for most of the rest of the game.
You're an embarrassment to the forum. And that's saying a lot for this place.
Reneau getting hurt and Woodson using only one big man opens up the floor for him (Ballo) and the shooters and drivers. It seems like the coach recognized that after the fans.
I can’t believe there are people on here who still don’t understand the “Lucy” persona at this point. You getting all huffy and puffy like this is her raison d’etre.
I dont have any legal documentation saying so, but I’d consider myself an expert in psychological expressions! Took a ton of psych classes in college since I had a hard time passing it!
I am not a Racist, I am just proud to be White.
There is no reason I should be ashamed to be white!
Unfortunately the last chance IU had to land Pearl was this past offseason. The perfect time would have been when Archie was let go. 🤷♂️ Da Hoosier's fans luck!
congrats. Helluva an accomplishment. For some reason reading this make me less proud to be white. Are you proud to have brown eyes?
So that's a no? I'm proud I have blue eyes, am left handed and have curly, but receding hair. Those are at least as notable "accomplishments" as my whiteness.
Novel idea here...how about we hire a guy, finally, that won't lose the fanbase then? Everything you're saying is true...but outside Sampson, we've had some pretty darn mediocre basketball coaches since RMK. When they've won, our fan base has gone ape shit over them. But having cheered for RMK teams for a few decades, our fan base has some base knowledge on what a good, functional, basketball program looks like. In every case where our fan base has "turned" on a coach, there has been obvious, compelling evidence to lead the fan base to do that.
Davis...IU fans went BONKERS over his first couple years. The teams were different than RMK teams, they played differently, but they had a lot of success. There haven't been many times I've been more excited about IU basketball than when we won the Maui tournament Bracey Wrights freshman year. Coming off a Natty run, exciting young players joining seasoned guys like Coverdale. Then Davis lost is mind in the Kentucky game...then we had a stretch in B10 season where we lost like 8 out of 10 games...got thumped in 2nd round of NCAA tournament... hmmm...what's going on here? Then we were just an awful basketball team the next 2 years, and while we were very talented the Killingsworth year, like Woodson's teams, it was obvious we weren't a relevant program at that point. Why wouldn't our fan base have turned on Davis a year or two after that Natty run? We were awful.
Sampson...dumb, shouldn't have hired him...Dang we were getting really damn good while he was there though. I loved watching his first team play. Gritty and tough as nails. Then we had probably the best team in the nation Gordon's year...but alas.
Crean...Similar to Davis...we had a pretty big dose of patience, crazy excitement, and then some more patience, and then it just became obvious what we were seeing. But Crean got quite a few years. And again, the IU fan base was ON FIRE those Zeller/Dipo years. It doesn't take much to blow things up at IU. Sometimes just a player or two can do it. But then they left. And Crean started doing things like changing defenses mid possession. Manicly substituting. I do think Crean got a bad wrap, overall. But why wouldn't IU fans want to watch consistently better basketball? Why should they/we accept the bad years for a good year every now and then. The dropoffs with Crean were too dramatic.
Archie...basketball wise, solid hire. He's smart, he had proven his system was successful. He's just not equipped to coach well at an elite P4 school. Archie's personality, combined with a lack of on court success did him in. But he got 4 years. And all 4 of them were mediocre. And at a time when other programs were building much more quickly. That's another variable in all this that has to be acknowledged...you DO NOT NEED 4 years to build an elite program any more. And when you see one that isn't going anywhere, why on earth wait around?
Woodson...the team just isn't well coached, they aren't fun to watch, they aren't efficient, its a guard dominated game, and he hasn't shown a ton of success getting elite level guards... we're no closer to being a Final Four competitive program today than we were when we hired him...and deep down, I would guess pretty much everyone knows Woodson isn't going to build it up.
I think its lazy to just say "IU fires their coaches every 3-5 years". That isn't true, one...and two, we haven't had a single coach worth keeping around longer than that, and we've still kept a couple of them around longer than that.
Also...the fan base isn't keeping a coach, or our team, from winning. No matter how much we whine and complain on this board. And like I said above, when we do win...we go bonkers for this program.
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