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Democrats BEST course of action...

Nobody thinks Russia was fixing votes. Russia was clearly spreading anti-Clinton propaganda in 2016, anti-Biden propaganda in 2020, and in general driving the 2020 "voter fraud" fantasy.

Facebook and Twitter finally got around to deleting Russian bot accounts from their platforms, but long after the Russian stories has been assimilated by the Trumpsters and less than 2 months before the 2020 election.

Facebook and Twitter said on Thursday they had removed several hundred fake accounts linked to Russian military intelligence and other Kremlin-backed actors involved in previous efforts to interfere in U.S. politics

. . . AND since at least 2016, Russians have been promoting anti-Trump messaging:



"We found that the accounts’ ability to spread political images varied by the social network. For instance, Russian-sponsored tweets about both parties were equally influential on Twitter, but on Gab their influence was mainly on spreading images of Democratic politicians. On Reddit, by contrast, the troll accounts were more influential at spreading images about Republican politicians."
 
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. . . AND since at least 2016, Russians have been promoting anti-Trump messaging:

I'd read elsewhere that the majority of the $100k spend targeted BLM supporters and Pokemon Go fans.

Edited to Add

Not what I read, but same info presented.
 
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I'd read elsewhere that the majority of the $100k spend targeted BLM supporters and Pokemon Go fans.
Per the US Senate intelligence briefing, Russians have been using social media to increase racial strife and distrust in the police and our institutions since at least 2010. They’ve amplified and created campaigns for and against BLM.

They want the US to implode through its inherent weaknesses of being a democratic state and also multi-ethnic and multi-cultural.
 
Per the US Senate intelligence briefing, Russians have been using social media to increase racial strife and distrust in the police and our institutions since at least 2010. They’ve amplified and created campaigns for and against BLM.

They want the US to implode through its inherent weaknesses of being a democratic state and also multi-ethnic and multi-cultural.
Link please?
 
I'd read elsewhere that the majority of the $100k spend targeted BLM supporters and Pokemon Go fans.
Was Pokémon go where they were hidden. We bought an 8 ball on a street corner in nyc (only time ever) and went out that night bombed and in the nightclubs we were going to youd see people in their regular drunk club wear trying to find Pokémon. I was so fckd up I didn’t know what was happening.
 
I'm not sure "did it have any meaningful effect on outcomes" is even a cognizable question. There are countless things that affect elections, and it would be very difficult to definitively hang a "but-for" on any of them, unless it was an election that was really close. For example, we know one of Russia's tactics is to have trolls pretend to be both woke and anti-woke warriors online. We know that this particular cultural battle has manifested itself in (and attracted a lot of money to) school board races. But how close does a race have to be before we can comfortably say, "Hey that person wouldn't have been elected to the board if it weren't for the Russian troll farms?" Obviously, Russia is much more likely to be a tipping point for someone who wins by 1 vote than someone who wins by 1500 votes, but I just don't see a way to draw a bright line that lets you say for sure with any confidence.

That's one way to look at it.

But I just think that internet trolls -- whether they're foreign plants or just ordinary numbskulls -- ultimately have little if any impact on political behavior in the form of voting. Yeah, there are memes that go viral. Some of them are clearly based on lies and misinformation -- and I don't doubt that at least some of that is deliberate psy-op. But how many minds are being changed?

That's why I see all this as being of a kind with voter fraud. Does it go on? Of course. It always has and always will. Is it rampant to the point where a case could be made that it's affecting election outcomes? I seriously doubt that. But that doesn't stop many people from believing that it does.
 
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These comments from Nancy Pelosi are remarkable.

PELOSI: It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to to make that decision. Because time is running short.​
LEMIRE: Do you want him to run?​
PELOSI: I want him to do whatever he decides to do. And that's the way it is. Whatever he decides we go with.​
Did she not get the letter he sent to Congress...not to mention numerous public statements that he's staying in the race? Why are they "encouraging him to make (a) decision" he's already made?

Is there any way to interpret this other than that there's only one "decision" he can make that she'll recognize as a decision?
There is certainly an enormous struggle going on behind the scenes, with pressure to keep it low visibility during NATO. I think we’ll know more next week about whether there’s a serious push against Biden.
 
Very true.

That's why it's a little naive to think the other nations aren't doing it in ours, especially now that it is so easy to do.
I think they found that the total impressions on Russian backed Facebook pages during the 2016 election was equivalent to like one day of engagement on Ben Shapiro’s Facebook page.

Russian troll farms is another overblown piece of propaganda.
 
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That's one way to look at it.

But I just think that internet trolls -- whether they're foreign plants or just ordinary numbskulls -- ultimately have little if any impact on political behavior in the form of voting. Yeah, there are memes that go viral. Some of them are clearly based on lies and misinformation -- and I don't doubt that at least some of that is deliberate psy-op. But how many minds are being changed?

That's why I see all this as being of a kind with voter fraud. Does it go on? Of course. It always has and always will. Is it rampant to the point where a case could be made that it's affecting election outcomes? I seriously doubt that. But that doesn't stop many people from believing that it does.
Biden is the Democratic nominee because of fraud on an unprecedented scale.
 
The Democrats don’t give a rip about Biden’s cognitive issues. They want him out because of the polling data.
Ehhhh I think the bench is pretty light with the names popping up most Newsom and Harris. I suspect they’d prefer a performing Biden. Their little scheme of keeping him in the basement got derailed with the misstep of agreeing to debate and perhaps a decline that went into 5th gear
 
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Ehhhh I think the bench is pretty light with the names popping up most Newsom and Harris. I suspect they’d prefer a performing Biden. Their little scheme of keeping him in the basement got derailed with the misstep of agreeing to debate and perhaps a decline that went into 5th gear
Im not saying the Democrats are smart about this. But I think they think they have nothing to lose by kicking Biden to the curb.
 
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Ehhhh I think the bench is pretty light with the names popping up most Newsom and Harris. I suspect they’d prefer a performing Biden. Their little scheme of keeping him in the basement got derailed with the misstep of agreeing to debate and perhaps a decline that went into 5th gear
Who do you think wrote Clooney’s op ed? Had to be Obama, Clinton’s, or maybe Harris (with help).
 
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I think they found that the total impressions on Russian backed Facebook pages during the 2016 election was equivalent to like one day of engagement on Ben Shapiro’s Facebook page.

Russian troll farms is another overblown piece of propaganda.
Interesting you’d think that when none of the investigations found that. That includes the Republican-led Senate Committee investigation report. Russian election influence for Trump in 2016 was extensive and may have been successful.

 
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Biden is the Democratic nominee because of fraud on an unprecedented scale.
Fraud? You’re just pulling stuff out of your ass.

We have two unfit candidates for president of the United States. Let’s start with Biden. First, he’s not the nominee. This is probably news to you, but a majority of Dems and Independents want him to step aside. Many Democratic members of Congress have publicly stated he should drop out of the race, and the list grows longer by the day. He’s not going to make it to the convention.

Now let’s consider your twice-impeached, four times indicted, criminally convicted, patron of political violence, supporter of cop-beaters, election denier, adjudicated-rapist candidate. Where’s the party pushback against his candidacy? Answer: there isn’t any. Disgraceful.

“It is a national tragedy that the Republicans have failed to have a similar debate about the manifest moral and temperamental unfitness of their standard-bearer, instead setting aside their longstanding values, closing ranks and choosing to overlook what those who worked most closely with the former president have described as his systematic dishonesty, corruption and incompetence.”

If I were you I wouldn’t be too worried about the Democrats’ nominating process. Instead, you should be concerned about the destructive malignancy within your own party named Donald Trump.
 
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Fraud? You’re just pulling stuff out of your ass.

We have two unfit candidates for president of the United States. Let’s start with Biden. First, he’s not the nominee. This is probably news to you, but a majority of Dems and Independents want him to step aside. Many Democratic members of Congress have publicly stated he should drop out of the race, and the list grows longer by the day. He’s not going to make it to the convention.
How certain are you of that? Give me 2-1 odds?
 
I was talking about voter fraud -- such as that alleged by Trump, etal as being the reason Biden won the 2020 election.
Only total dupes and/or morons believe that at this point. Trump’s campaign hired Ken Block, a voter data expert, to investigate for voter fraud. Like every other expert, he found no evidence of voter fraud that could have changed the results of the election. Trump has admitted he lost to many of his staff and advisors, but continues the lie because he knows it works with the dupes within his base. He says it, they unquestionably believe it, and they have another grievance to motivate them.

 
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Fraud? You’re just pulling stuff out of your ass.

We have two unfit candidates for president of the United States. Let’s start with Biden. First, he’s not the nominee. This is probably news to you, but a majority of Dems and Independents want him to step aside. Many Democratic members of Congress have publicly stated he should drop out of the race, and the list grows longer by the day. He’s not going to make it to the convention.

Now let’s consider your twice-impeached, four times indicted, criminally convicted, patron of political violence, supporter of cop-beaters, election denier, adjudicated-rapist candidate. Where’s the party pushback against his candidacy? Answer: there isn’t any. Disgraceful.

“It is a national tragedy that the Republicans have failed to have a similar debate about the manifest moral and temperamental unfitness of their standard-bearer, instead setting aside their longstanding values, closing ranks and choosing to overlook what those who worked most closely with the former president have described as his systematic dishonesty, corruption and incompetence.”

If I were you I wouldn’t be too worried about the Democrats’ nominating process. Instead, you should be concerned about the destructive malignancy within your own party named Donald Trump.
Not the nominee? The delegates bound to Biden by DNC rules are enough to nominate him. Worse, the Biden- led DNC, rigged the primaries for him. They knew.. They hid it. Fraud.

Trump? Won an open contended primary battle. That’s called democracy.
 
Only total dupes and/or morons believe that at this point. Trump’s campaign hired Ken Block, a voter data expert, to investigate for voter fraud. Like every other expert, he found no evidence of voter fraud that could have changed the results of the election. Trump has admitted he lost to many of his staff and advisors, but continues the lie because he knows it works with the dupes within his base. He says it, they unquestionably believe it, and they have another grievance to motivate them.


I agree.

And my overall point is that the people who have bought into the notion that Russian meddling had something to do with Trump's victory in 2016 (or, preemptively, in a potential victory this year) are of a kind with the loony dupes who bought into Trump's lie that Biden won because of voter fraud.

Saying "Well, there is evidence of Russian interference" is fine. There's also evidence of voter fraud. Do both things happen? Sure, I have no issues with saying both of these things happen. But a person crosses an important line when they go from making those anodyne observations to any kind of suggestion or implication that these things have been determinative in election outcomes.
 
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How certain are you of that? Give me 2-1 odds?
The crux of my post was that influential Dems are pushing back hard against Biden's candidacy while Pubs continue to enable (and next week will adulate) their Felon-Nominee.

But, with respect to a bet, how about this? I say the Dems' convention ends with someone other than Biden as the nominee. You say Biden is formally nominated in Chicago. No money, no odds, straight up. Loser doesn't post on the WC for thirty days beginning August 23.

I'm busy today and won't be on the Cooler. I'm sure you're busy as well, probably headed off to federal court or faced with a deadline for filing a brief. ;) Let me know by the weekend whether you're game.
 
One of Jack Smith’s garbage indictments is charging Trump with a felony for violating voter rights by lying to them.
OK.

And, yet, I was still talking about voter fraud such as that falsely claimed by Trump and millions of his lemmings as having been rampant and decisive in the 2020 election.
 
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The crux of my post was that influential Dems are pushing back hard against Biden's candidacy while Pubs continue to enable (and next week will adulate) their Felon-Nominee.

But, with respect to a bet, how about this? I say the Dems' convention ends with someone other than Biden as the nominee. You say Biden is formally nominated in Chicago. No money, no odds, straight up. Loser doesn't post on the WC for thirty days beginning August 23.

I'm busy today and won't be on the Cooler. I'm sure you're busy as well, probably headed off to federal court or faced with a deadline for filing a brief. ;) Let me know by the weekend whether you're game.

You do realize that the reason they're pushing back on Biden's nomination is that they're afraid he'll lose, right?

If you believe that has to do with some kind of principled stand, you're naive.
 
I agree.

And my overall point is that the people who have bought into the notion that Russian meddling had something to do with Trump's victory in 2016 (or, preemptively, in a potential victory this year) are of a kind with the loony dupes who bought into Trump's lie that Biden won because of voter fraud.

Saying "Well, there is evidence of Russian interference" is fine. There's also evidence of voter fraud. Do both things happen? Sure, I have no issues with saying both of these things happen. But a person crosses an important line when they go from making those anodyne observations to any kind of suggestion or implication that these things have been determinative in election outcomes.
Quantifying the effect of Russian election interference is the difficult thing to do. Impossible, really. That there was extensive influence is well known via numerous investigations. None can say it was a deciding factor in favor of Trump. Opinions either way are supported, but they’re opinions, not facts.
 
Only total dupes and/or morons believe that at this point. Trump’s campaign hired Ken Block, a voter data expert, to investigate for voter fraud. Like every other expert, he found no evidence of voter fraud that could have changed the results of the election. Trump has admitted he lost to many of his staff and advisors, but continues the lie because he knows it works with the dupes within his base. He says it, they unquestionably believe it, and they have another grievance to motivate them.

198 house democrats voted against the bill requiring proof of citizenship to register in federal elections. The Democrats oppose every measure to protect elections from fraudsters. I’ve always believed that people will take advantage of loopholes to commit election fraud.

It doesn’t take “wide spread” fraud to affect an election. It only requires a handful of people in a few deep blue cities.

This isn’t to say there is fraud. But it is to say, the democrats oppose all measures to limit fraud.
 
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198 house democrats voted against the bill requiring proof of citizenship to register in federal elections. The Democrats oppose every measure to protect elections from fraudsters. I’ve always believed that people will take advantage of loopholes to commit election fraud.

It doesn’t take “wide spread” fraud to affect an election. It only requires a handful of people in a few deep blue cities.

This isn’t to say there is fraud. But it is to say, the democrats oppose all measures to limit fraud.
Those were 198 votes I strongly disagree with. As you well know, I’ve long strongly opposed all voter fraud, argued for voter IDs, only allowing eligible voters vote, scrutinization and purging voter rolls of all ineligible voters, etc.

There was voter fraud in 2020, by Republicans and Democrats, as there unfortunately is in every election. However every expert and investigation into 2020 has said that there was no fraud significant enough to alter the results. That’s the point, and believing otherwise now is an indelible mark of a dupe. Trump doesn’t believe it he just lies to motivate those dupes.
 
Quantifying the effect of Russian election interference is the difficult thing to do. Impossible, really. That there was extensive influence is well known via numerous investigations. None can say it was a deciding factor in favor of Trump. Opinions either way are supported, but they’re opinions, not facts.

But would you agree that this has been the implication? I mean, many people very much have flat out said that Russia got Trump elected. But even those who have stopped short of saying it have implied it -- or, at best, not pushed back on it. And the whole idea behind this messaging was to delegitimize Trump's presidency, or even push him out of office.

Well, guess what Trump's motivation was in spreading his lie?

I realize people who have strong opinions one way or the other about these political personalities are going to scoff at the notion that they're like those other guys -- the other guys are nutcases.

But the people who have bought into one or the other of this pair of notions are, to me, more alike than they are different.
 
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The crux of my post was that influential Dems are pushing back hard against Biden's candidacy while Pubs continue to enable (and next week will adulate) their Felon-Nominee.

But, with respect to a bet, how about this? I say the Dems' convention ends with someone other than Biden as the nominee. You say Biden is formally nominated in Chicago. No money, no odds, straight up. Loser doesn't post on the WC for thirty days beginning August 23.

I'm busy today and won't be on the Cooler. I'm sure you're busy as well, probably headed off to federal court or faced with a deadline for filing a brief. ;) Let me know by the weekend whether you're game.
Kinda a win-win bet for you, no?

I'll take the bet even up because it will be fun and I'm not sure anyone's ever done it here. dbmhoosier wouldn't even respond to the bet I offered him. I don't care about you posting for 30 days--do what you like. But since it matters to you, I won't post for 30 days if Biden isn't the nominee coming out of the convention.
 
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