Hammel and May also went. Are they, too, on the outs? He should have encouraged all the team to go.
Dakich rant on Bob Knight
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This is ridiculous for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that can you imagine all the ish DD had to put up with from RMK over the years? No. I don't think any of us can and I say this as a lifelong fan of RMK. While I will always believe he's a deeply flawed person, it doesn't change the fact that he's probably the greatest coach in the history of college basketball. It's just a shame (and wrong) the way his career at IU ended.
"a lunch in an effort to break the ice"? Not good enough. IU publishes press releases. Show me the letter to Bob Knight from Indiana University where they wish to establish some constructive ties with him. You won't find one. But they certainly publically terminated him, didn't they?
Personally, I think IU should stop inviting him back. The tradition he added to the program is certainly hard to understate, but sometimes you're so much of an ass that you need to go away. Move forward. He helped build the program - and he's been handicapping it since the mid 90's.
I don't think the school would release a personal letter to Knight or any other person. I don't need to see a letter to know it likely happened. The window for him to gracefully return has passed. If he returns, it won't be an announced visit or event. He will probably be in, talk to a few people and be gone before the media finds out.
He isn't ignoring IU. You can buy autographed photos of Knight on pictures from his time at IU.
Fred Glass met with him at Rick's Boatyard cafe in Indy with Bob Hammel and had 5 hour lunch to hatch things out about him coming back for the Hall of Fame. This time Glass hand wrote a letter to him, that Hammel personally gave to Knight. What more about reaching out do you need to know.
RMK may have ungraciously declined the invitation to his HOF ceremony and I know nothing about that. However, as far as refusing to acknowledge the honor, he wrote a letter that Bob Hammel read on his behalf at the ceremony. I was in attendance to hear it.
http://www.toledoblade.com/Opinion/2006/11/05/Embattled-Dakich-finds-solace-with-old-pal-Knight.html
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a2049/bobby-knight-needs-hug/
The above two articles help to illustrate a point that I think is worth bringing up. The first article describes a time at the end of Dakich's BGSU stint. Times are tough, coach on the hot seat kind of stuff, and who do you think was there for Dakich to pick him up? Was it the mostly mocking IU fans? Was it IU admin.? No, it was coach Knight who volunteered to do whatever he could to help Dakich.
The second article describes tough times for Dakich during his first season at BGSU. Once again who was there for Dak?
Nobody has more of a right to express their opinion on this than the former players, so I take what Dakich says seriously. However, we have been told for about 40 years how Knight is always there for his former players. He is loyal and expects loyalty in return. Dan Dakich said that... not me. Loyalty means nothing until it is tested. I've heard countless times how Knight has passed the loyalty test with his players. Now I'm supposed to forget the stories that they have been telling about Knight so they can feel good about what amounts to a betrayal in Knight's eyes. I'm not saying that Knight is right,.. but I understand where he's coming from.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a2049/bobby-knight-needs-hug/
The above two articles help to illustrate a point that I think is worth bringing up. The first article describes a time at the end of Dakich's BGSU stint. Times are tough, coach on the hot seat kind of stuff, and who do you think was there for Dakich to pick him up? Was it the mostly mocking IU fans? Was it IU admin.? No, it was coach Knight who volunteered to do whatever he could to help Dakich.
The second article describes tough times for Dakich during his first season at BGSU. Once again who was there for Dak?
Nobody has more of a right to express their opinion on this than the former players, so I take what Dakich says seriously. However, we have been told for about 40 years how Knight is always there for his former players. He is loyal and expects loyalty in return. Dan Dakich said that... not me. Loyalty means nothing until it is tested. I've heard countless times how Knight has passed the loyalty test with his players. Now I'm supposed to forget the stories that they have been telling about Knight so they can feel good about what amounts to a betrayal in Knight's eyes. I'm not saying that Knight is right,.. but I understand where he's coming from.
Correct.
Knight agreed to the terms Brand and the administration gave him. It was way beyond 2nd chance time. He didn't execute and failed to meet those expectations.
Great coach, but hypocritical for sure.
Knight being loyal and being there for his players didn't involve compromising himself and was a non-issue for him to do so. That can't be said for what he is asking from his players. They feel (and rightfully so) that there is plenty of water under that bridge and that the ones responsible for all that was done wrong to him are not just gone from IU, but in a few cases, gone from this earth. There are no excuses anymore and it's a sad thing. I will say this (for the 12,456th time). Those fans (mostly young ones who don't remember RMK) that are flippant about moving on from RMK and/or not respectful of all that he accomplished at IU need to pull their heads out of their backsides and acknowledge that none of this would even be posted on here or anyone would even give a rat's, were it not for all that he accomplished at IU.
I respect Coach Knight from his time as coach at Indiana... He gave us a lot of joy and an anticipation each year basketball season came around...Gave us championships and we had a sense that it was done right ... We did have to put up with a snarly sort of person that I think we overlooked when it came to the cursing and the verbal abuse he displayed.. We kind of liked that and kind of liked him . The problem was time changed and Coach Knight did not.... He is still the same as many of our time has become . We don't want to change I remember those years . We cannot go back .....I just want to remember the good days...... It was yesterday..... Lets root for our team now... It may not be the team from 76 or 81 or 87 but it is Indiana..... Go Hoosiers
Do you have a link to Quinn's comments? I told a friend about what he said (going merely on what I read here) and he didn't believe it. He said it had to be internet rumors, not fact.
From 2013, Coach Bobby Knight on why he's so unpleasant:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/magazine/coach-bobby-knight-on-why-hes-so-unpleasant.html?_r=0
NYT: "Indiana’s current coach, Tom Crean, has been trying to get you back to Bloomington to have some sort of homecoming. I imagine you’d receive a hero’s welcome."
BK: "I don’t need a hero’s welcome. What do I need a hero’s welcome for? Obviously I don’t have any interest in going back, or I would have, it’s that simple."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/magazine/coach-bobby-knight-on-why-hes-so-unpleasant.html?_r=0
NYT: "Indiana’s current coach, Tom Crean, has been trying to get you back to Bloomington to have some sort of homecoming. I imagine you’d receive a hero’s welcome."
BK: "I don’t need a hero’s welcome. What do I need a hero’s welcome for? Obviously I don’t have any interest in going back, or I would have, it’s that simple."
Heck, Harpo, he was invited to his own HoF induction. He declined.
He was invited to the 25th anniversary of the '87 championship. Ricky Calloway came, despite having subsequently transferred. Knight declined, and talked at least one player from the team out of coming.
He was invited to the '76 team commemoration, and declined...reportedly going on "the outs" with one of that team's players for showing up.
AJ Guyton made a public appeal to Knight to come to his HoF induction. He declined.
I was at an event that Cheaney had in Evansville shortly after Tom Crean was hired. Calbert invited Crean to it and he made the trek despite everything he had going on. Knight was the featured speaker. At the pre-event, Crean made an effort to speak to Knight and RMK blew him off in front of plenty of onlookers...as if Crean had anything to do with what happened in 2000.
These are only the things we know about. If these don't count as IU "reaching out" to Bob, what exactly would? I'd be willing to bet money that the idea of naming the court after RMK has been broached -- but that he ensured he would not be there to receive the honor. And you can't expect IU to put on such a spectacle with the guest of honor so conspicuously absent.
I think IU's right to continue inviting him to events like Tuesday night's. He'll continue refusing them, of course. But it at least shows who the adult in the room is.
Yes, but it's wrong for him to define "loyalty" as joining him in spurning anything to do with IU.
And in case there's any doubt that he's still doing this, listen to Quinn's interview. To Bob Knight, you're either loyal to him or loyal to IU....but you can't be both.
And that is pure unadulterated childishness.
Wow
I'd like to know what he said.
Wow. Is there text of the letter? Is there video of Hammel reading it?
I'd like to know what he said.
Try this one. I've seen several and this looks like it, but I won't have time to watch it to make sure it's what you're looking for.
http://www.iuhoosiers.com/news/2016/1/6/MBB_0106161037.aspx
I am 46 years old and RMK was the only coach I knew growing up and worshiped him for many years. I grew tired of his antics once I grew up and realize that he had many flaws. Around 1999 I thought it was time to move on because he has not performed that he onced did. Saying all of that I think it is time to move on from him because he is just an old bitter man that gets upset if his players don't show him loyality.
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Hall of Fame induction? 1976 team commemoration? Fine and good. But where is IU's public display of gratitude for three decades of dedication and accomplishment for Indiana University? Three national championships.....not even a plaque on the wall at IU for RMK? Really?
Are you sure you're not confusing this with Landon Turner's HoF induction ceremony?
I can't say I was in attendance at either one. I do certainly recall the very nice letter that Knight wrote to Landon for his induction, read aloud by Bob Hammel. I do not, however, recall any such letter being read at Knight's induction.
this is the Bob Knight I remember.....and he made it public.....
hoosierchronicles.com/2012/11/a-letter-from-bob-knight-to-landon-turner.html
hoosierchronicles.com/2012/11/a-letter-from-bob-knight-to-landon-turner.html
Just seems like some can't move on from a coach who has not been here for 16 years. Everyone that is old enough to remember RMK loved everything he did for IU and all the great teams he had but it is time to move on.
Are you saying induction into a school's Hall of Fame is not a public display of gratitude for somebody's accomplishments? Virtually everybody who has had that honor, if they were able, has showed up in person to be recognized. They had that for him -- and he was a no-show.
IU would look pathetic if they kept having such public ceremonies for Knight with him refusing to show up. Again, I'd be willing to bet the subject of a floor-naming or something of that nature has been privately broached. But I'm sure Knight has rebuffed those just like he's rebuffed every other invitation extended to him to take part in something.
Once again, that's his prerogative. I'm sure that, in his black-and-white mind, to take any hands extended by IU now would be tantamount to vindicating a firing that he feels was unwarranted and unjust. It doesn't matter that the specific people who were behind it are either dead or gone. It's a matter of principle to him. And he's not going to give the new PTBs the satisfaction of thinking that the old PTBs got the better of him like that.
Fine. But where he crosses the line from merely being a stubborn mule to being an insufferable jerk is when he forces his players to choose between him and his good graces and Indiana University's good graces. That is like a divorced parent telling their child to pick between them and their ex-spouse.
It is sheer petulance -- and it does not merit any kind of defense. Good for Dan Dakich in calling the man he spent 17 years with, as a player and assistant coach, out on it.
Here's the text of the letter:
Landon:
For over two years as a member of our basketball team, you were a monumental pain in the ass. You were a kid with enormous talent — oh, and you had some great moments that helped us win some games and championships, the NIT final game was one of those. But times like that only made more frustrating all of those much more frequent times when you didn’t come close to playing to your abilities in a consistent way.
I had just about given up on you as a player who could be counted on to play his best in every game. Then, on Feb. 12, 1981, in our 23rd game of your junior year, we were playing Northwestern at home. Steve Downing and I were going to tell your great parents after the game that we no longer thought you could help our team. Then, with nine minutes to go in that Northwestern game with us about 30 points ahead, I finally put you in the game — and you immediately missed a block-out and gave up a basket. Of course I took you out of the game, but for some reason I don’t understand I put you right back in. For the next 8 and a half minutes you did it — you played to the full extent of your abilities, and it was a joy to watch.
After the game, Steve and I met with your Dad and Mother. Our original plan had been to draft a letter that would make you eligible for the NBA Draft. After the way you had played, before we brought up the letter I asked you a question: “Landon, what keeps you from playing that way all the time?” You said, “I don’t know, Coach, but I would like the chance to try.”
From our next practice through the final game in the NCAA tournament, you were the best player in the country. Our team could not and would not have won the national championship without the way you played. You did a complete turn-around, not only as a player but also as a student. I have never seen anyone make that complete a change in his approach to life.
Then came your summertime accident on the way to King’s Island. Only through great will and determination did you even survive. Your life was changed forever, and you would never experience what you were going to be as a basketball player — the best in the country.
But what you did become, Landon, is the most amazing human being — the greatest example of dealing with and overcoming adversity — that I have ever known. There is no player of all the great, great kids that I have coached that I respect more than you.
My favorite moment as a coach was seeing you become the player I thought you could be. My worst moment as a coach was learning that you would not have a senior season.
And you also gave me my most unforgettable and meaningful moment on a basketball court. It was at one of our Senior Days. You had come down to be part of it — I always appreciated that — and you were in your wheelchair on the court behind me when on the spur of the moment I asked all the former IU players in the stands that day to stand. Then I thought of you, looked back, and needled you as always: “Landon, aren’t you going to stand up?”
You gave me that great big smile and said, “Coach, I am standing, in my heart.”
That, I’ll never forget.
Congratulations for this wonderful recognition and honor, Landon. You deserve to be up on that wall, as a continuing reminder of a great young basketball player whose future changed in a minute and — after a lot of tears and family time, I’m sure — just said, “Well, that’s the way it’s going to be. I’ll make the best of it.”
And you have.
-- Bob Knight
http://www.c-span.org/video/?162101-1/reform-intercollegiate-athletics
This speech by Brand at the National Press Club – less than one year after firing Knight – has all the clues one needs to know why Knight was fired, and it wasn’t because the winning record was deteriorating. Brand used Knight’s behavior as a means to an end. He garnered enough votes from the Board, fired Knight, and used that action as a springboard in his campaign to reform intercollegiate athletics. Knight was a pawn.
If I’m Bob Knight, it’s nearly impossible to reconcile how Brand exploited me, with support from a Board of Indiana residents, in light of the facts that my players’ graduation rate was above that of the general student population, that I demanded academic excellence and generously supported academics, and that I was already an opponent of commercializing intercollegiate athletics.
Knight plainly states in his biography that the trajectory at IU changed in 1994 with Brand becoming president. His recollection is that he should have listened to his instincts and left town, but he couldn’t pull himself away from it.
This speech by Brand at the National Press Club – less than one year after firing Knight – has all the clues one needs to know why Knight was fired, and it wasn’t because the winning record was deteriorating. Brand used Knight’s behavior as a means to an end. He garnered enough votes from the Board, fired Knight, and used that action as a springboard in his campaign to reform intercollegiate athletics. Knight was a pawn.
If I’m Bob Knight, it’s nearly impossible to reconcile how Brand exploited me, with support from a Board of Indiana residents, in light of the facts that my players’ graduation rate was above that of the general student population, that I demanded academic excellence and generously supported academics, and that I was already an opponent of commercializing intercollegiate athletics.
Knight plainly states in his biography that the trajectory at IU changed in 1994 with Brand becoming president. His recollection is that he should have listened to his instincts and left town, but he couldn’t pull himself away from it.
Surely, if such a letter was read, there would be some kind of record of it. The Athletic Department posts videos of HoF ceremonies anymore. Maybe one isn't available for Knight's. But surely there'd be some kind of report on this letter having been read.
Can you link to something? Because I'm pretty sure I'd have remembered that.
CofB....Thank You for telling the other side of the story much better than I could. The RMK bashing is all the rage right now...and the historical facts get lost along the way.
Nobody has forgotten the good he did but it seems like some forget the bad which right now outway the good. There were way to many embarrassing incidents through the years that I think some just glossed over because he was winning chmapionships.
There was a time, not really so long ago, when I was a proud apologist of Coach Knight's. I still am, in some regards.
I remember posting the full text of Dr. Gene Ress' letter about RMK visiting his 17-year-old son Glen at an Indianapolis hospital shortly before he passed away. The photograph that Dr. Ress gave to Knight as a token of his thanks is still, I believe, on display at Assembly Hall -- with a placard put there by Coach Knight dedicating it to Glen's memory. I am very well-versed on the "good side" of Coach Knight: the kindnesses he's shown for many people, the way he ran his program.
Trust me on this...I am well aware of every single one of the man's redeeming qualities.
That said, he deserved to be fired. To say that he was just "a pawn" of Myles Brand's quest to revolutionize college athletics is absurd. It would be preposterous for him to think that he could do the things he did without professional repercussions. And, at the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that the separation between Knight and IU still -- 15+ years later -- comes down to Knight's belief that he was unjustly terminated.
Again, I really don't have a problem with him washing his hands of the university. At one time, I did. Over time, that turned into ambivalence. And, eventually, I came to think that it's probably for the best that he stays away.
But it is vindictive beyond the pale for him to put his former players in a position of having to choose between him or the university. Anybody who defends that needs to think again.
Bob Knight did not put his players in a position to do anything ....they are long past grown men making their own decisions. Myles Brand went on the the NCAA as president and immediately went on a vendetta to ethnically cleanse any and all mascots of universities deemed politically incorrect. And Bob Knight? Well, his players graduated at almost 80% during his tenure...compared to the national average of about 42%. That statistic alone puts Bob Knight in a category much more esteemed than the national championships at Indiana.
The facts are that any other accomplished, mature, leader of men would have been responding to these offers in a different manner. How has Mallory responded to the university after being fired, ever seen video of the fired Valvano at the NC State championship reunion etc. ? I was a freshman for the '75-'76 season, think he is one of the greatest coaches ever but no longer care if he ever comes back. He is bitter and immature. What else do you think IU should do to reach out? Name the court after a guy that sued the university, refused to say the name Indiana when broadcasting, shuns loyal players that go to a reunion etc etc. Really? The winning was great but winning games does is not the only component of any coach or individual.
The thing that doesn't make any sense to me is that he apparently didn't shun Landon for attending his induction ceremony. I mean why send the nice letter if a shunning is impending? What is different in his eyes about the 40th Anniversary ceremony? We'll probably never know because Knight doesn't air his feelings publicly as Dakich did... at least as far as I know.
Regardless, they all remain my faves in spite of their personal differences. It is sad for Coach Knight and the former players that this is the way it is, but it has no effect on me as a fan. Hopefully, Knight can reconcile with Dak, Buckner and the rest, but his return to IU is meaningless at this point. I'm not a fan of naming buildings and floors after people either, so as far as I'm concerned it should be finished.
Regardless, they all remain my faves in spite of their personal differences. It is sad for Coach Knight and the former players that this is the way it is, but it has no effect on me as a fan. Hopefully, Knight can reconcile with Dak, Buckner and the rest, but his return to IU is meaningless at this point. I'm not a fan of naming buildings and floors after people either, so as far as I'm concerned it should be finished.
Those are very cogent words. I wish I could express myself as well as you.
Thank you for such a wise post, I share the same feelings. And I remember Ryan White sitting on the bench, but unfortunately RMK went beyond the limits he placed on others.
But we sure played a lot of good D!
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