Cupps

[T.M.P.]

I think it’s an ego thing. My speculation is that he thinks he is smarter than other college coaches. In other words, that he’s on to some super secret trick that no college coach is smart enough to have tried.

Have you ever watched a Bruce Pearl coached team, where he coaches like a soccer mom and everyone gets a participation ribbon and where he does weird ass shit like starts the worst player on the roster? Or Tom Crean with his timed premade lineups where he ignores hot hands, and matchups and puts cold players in their spots, just because? Or Buzz Williams also known as Crean's doppleganger... who is a combination of Crean and Pearl ..

There's worse than Woodson.. the stupid lineups last year, won't be stupid lineups this year as there's a huge talent difference having Tucker, Gallo and Goode.. compared to last year's versions of CJ, Banks, and Sparks.

 

[T.M.P.]

I think it’s an ego thing. My speculation is that he thinks he is smarter than other college coaches. In other words, that he’s on to some super secret trick that no college coach is smart enough to have tried.

I underestimated Woody's ability to put a stupid lineup on the floor.

You play the scrubs at the end with a 30 pt lead not in the middle of a dominating 1st half run. That stupid shit not only killed our momentum, it's a NET efficiency killer.

 

[Lucy01]

Is Cupps even on the bench tonight?

 

[sobester]

Sheppard didn’t even start last year and went third in the draft simply because he could shoot the 3. Mgbako has good size and if he continues this shooting they will have a nose up his butt not just a sniff.

Sheppard went third because he can shoot, has an uncanny knack for the ball on defense that is almost weird and is a great passer. I’m not saying he’s a future all star but he’s way more than just a shooter. I think he also had the first or second best vertical in the combine.

 

[BA47591]

Have you ever watched a Bruce Pearl coached team, where he coaches like a soccer mom and everyone gets a participation ribbon and where he does weird ass shit like starts the worst player on the roster? Or Tom Crean with his timed premade lineups where he ignores hot hands, and matchups and puts cold players in their spots, just because? Or Buzz Williams also known as Crean's doppleganger... who is a combination of Crean and Pearl ..

There's worse than Woodson.. the stupid lineups last year, won't be stupid lineups this year as there's a huge talent difference having Tucker, Gallo and Goode.. compared to last year's versions of CJ, Banks, and Sparks.

Honest question: do you see a well coached team out there? It's early in the season and a lot of coaches are experimenting and with that comes moments where things can get sloppy. This is different.

 

[jopajackson]

Honest question: do you see a well coached team out there? It's early in the season and a lot of coaches are experimenting and with that comes moments where things can get sloppy. This is different.

IMO this is not a well coached team. And based on the past 3 years, it’s not going to get better as the year goes on. The roster is more talented. There is no doubt about that. Maybe Woodson will surprise us and this team will start to gel and do the little things, but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[T.M.P.]

Honest question: do you see a well coached team out there?

No. I think that's pretty damn evident in my posts. Do you think I'm somehow praising him by calling out his shitty rotations and stupid ass lineups?

 

[CriticArisen]

Sheppard went third because he can shoot, has an uncanny knack for the ball on defense that is almost weird and is a great passer. I’m not saying he’s a future all star but he’s way more than just a shooter. I think he also had the first or second best vertical in the combine.

If he hit say 35% from 3 do you believe he would have been a lottery pick let alone 3rd. He is 6’2”- would he have been drafted as a non-starter in college if he was an okay shooter with a 42” vertical. He was drafted because he is a knockdown shooter from 3.

This is why he was 3rd



The Rockets have been poor from 3 with Jalen Green a high volume low efficiency shooter. They were looking to change that with an elite shooter. I agree he had a lot of steals per minute played in college but he will need to gain strength before he will be a competent NBA defender. They drafted him for shooting. Ever since Eric Gordon left the Rockets haven’t had a good 3 pt shooter.

MM had a really poor shooting night. I agree MM has deficiencies and unless he knocks down shots this discussion is moot.

Remember Mac McClung-43.5” vertical but average shooter and undrafted.

 

[sobester]

If he hit say 35% from 3 do you believe he would have been a lottery pick let alone 3rd. He is 6’2”- would he have been drafted as a non-starter in college if he was an okay shooter with a 42” vertical. He was drafted because he is a knockdown shooter from 3.

This is why he was 3rd

View embedded media

The Rockets have been poor from 3 with Jalen Green a high volume low efficiency shooter. They were looking to change that with an elite shooter. I agree he had a lot of steals per minute played in college but he will need to gain strength before he will be a competent NBA defender. They drafted him for shooting. Ever since Eric Gordon left the Rockets haven’t had a good 3 pt shooter.

MM had a really poor shooting night. I agree MM has deficiencies and unless he knocks down shots this discussion is moot.

I thought the original point was that he went 3rd only because of sooting, not that shooting was a factor. I’d guess shooting is a factor for every draft pick. Devin Booker was never a starter either btw.

 

[Stuffshot]

Have you ever watched a Bruce Pearl coached team, where he coaches like a soccer mom and everyone gets a participation ribbon and where he does weird ass shit like starts the worst player on the roster? Or Tom Crean with his timed premade lineups where he ignores hot hands, and matchups and puts cold players in their spots, just because? Or Buzz Williams also known as Crean's doppleganger... who is a combination of Crean and Pearl ..

There's worse than Woodson.. the stupid lineups last year, won't be stupid lineups this year as there's a huge talent difference having Tucker, Gallo and Goode.. compared to last year's versions of CJ, Banks, and Sparks.

Plus, there are 14 newcomers Woodson needs to figure out:

Ballo
Bobbett
Burke
Carlyle
Creel
Goode
Goodis
Hatton
James
Newton
Rayford
Rice
Stephens
Tucker

That's a helluva lot of new blood. Yeah, I know, he already knows some of them will never get in a game, but at least six of them have already played.

For now, I'll tolerate some hockey-line substitutions because I don't know how he could efficiently evaluate all those in a game by substituting them one-at-a-time. He needs to get through that process and settle on his starters and real substitution patterns.

 

[CriticArisen]

I thought the original point was that he went 3rd only because of sooting, not that shooting was a factor. I’d guess shooting is a factor for every draft pick. Devin Booker was never a starter either btw.

The point was that the Rockets drafted him for shooting, not because he had a good vertical and not because he had steals. They need an upgrade in shooting and he was an ultra elite shooter.

I didn’t know that about Devin Booker..

 

[sobester]

The point was that the Rockets drafted him for shooting, not because he had a good vertical and not because he had steals. They need an upgrade in shooting and he was an ultra elite shooter.

I didn’t know that about Devin Booker..

So ridiculously oversimplified…. I mean, you’re not wrong per se.

 

[iubhounds]

Plus, there are 14 newcomers Woodson needs to figure out:

Ballo
Bobbett
Burke
Carlyle
Creel
Goode
Goodis
Hatton
James
Newton
Rayford
Rice
Stephens
Tucker

That's a helluva lot of new blood. Yeah, I know, he already knows some of them will never get in a game, but at least six of them have already played.

For now, I'll tolerate some hockey-line substitutions because I don't know how he could efficiently evaluate all those in a game by substituting them one-at-a-time. He needs to get through that process and settle on his starters and real substitution patterns.

UK has 12 new players, a new coaching staff and it looks as if they got "through that process" by their third game, upsetting the overrated Duke a week or so ago. What's the problem?

 

[CriticArisen]

So ridiculously oversimplified…. I mean, you’re not wrong per se.

He is an ultra elite shooter and that is a clear evaluation result. He has what they need.

 

[sobester]

He is an ultra elite shooter and that is a clear evaluation result. He has what they need.

I don’t disagree with that. But Travis Ford and Steve Alford were ultra-elite shooters as well.

 

[CriticArisen]

I don’t disagree with that. But Travis Ford and Steve Alford were ultra-elite shooters as well.

Yes, there is still an element of risk in making the jump to the NBA that can’t be eliminated. Mac McClung was an elite jumper but no draft interest because average shooter. My actual original point was that if MM showed that he was an elite shooter then he would have very good draft potential even with shortcomings in other phases of the game.

 

[sobester]

Yes, there is still an element of risk in making the jump to the NBA that can’t be eliminated. Mac McClung was an elite jumper but no draft interest because average shooter. My actual original point was that if MM showed that he was an elite shooter then he would have very good draft potential even with shortcomings in other phases of the game.

Sure, and if Travis Ford was an elite athlete with ultra quick hands he would have been a high draft pick. (Maybe needed a couple of inches in height as well but still).

 

[CriticArisen]

Sure, and if Travis Ford was an elite athlete with ultra quick hands he would have been a high draft pick. (Maybe needed a couple of inches in height as well but still).

I don’t think anyone thought Alford’s game would translate to the NBA. He had a genius running plays for him but yes ultra elite shooter that was not a match for the NBA. The NBA has changed but agree even now Alford’s game would be adequate for the NBA but he might make it as a catch and shoot guy for the Rockets.

 

[CriticArisen]

The Rockets have been plagued by high volume low efficiency shooters. Tracy McGrady played like forever and now Jalen Green. I just don’t like watching that kind of team play. It’s also been a long time since we have had an elite shooter and maybe I look too hard.

 

[sobester]

Ford was the most “skilled” basketball player I’ve ever seen. He a was 5’8” average athlete at best (by high-school standards) that was considered the second best pg in his class.

 

[IUNorth]

The Rockets have been plagued by high volume low efficiency shooters. Tracy McGrady played like forever and now Jalen Green. I just don’t like watching that kind of team play. It’s also been a long time since we have had an elite shooter and maybe I look too hard.

You're both right. Obviously Shepherd's outside shooting was probably at the top of their list of attributes that compelled them to take him at 3. But his athleticism, and his handle, combined with that shooting, is what put him on theirs, and others, "1st Pick" lists in the first place. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of similarly skilled shooters in every class of kids. He separates himself with the other ball skills, and then further separates himself with his elite athleticism.

Having said all this...he's averaging around 12 minute per game of playing time, less than 4 points a game...and isn't even close to being in their main rotation. Sooo...evidently they didn't need him as much as it seemed when they drafted him at 3.

 

[CriticArisen]

You're both right. Obviously Shepherd's outside shooting was probably at the top of their list of attributes that compelled them to take him at 3. But his athleticism, and his handle, combined with that shooting, is what put him on theirs, and others, "1st Pick" lists in the first place. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of similarly skilled shooters in every class of kids. He separates himself with the other ball skills, and then further separates himself with his elite athleticism.

Having said all this...he's averaging around 12 minute per game of playing time, less than 4 points a game...and isn't even close to being in their main rotation. Sooo...evidently they didn't need him as much as it seemed when they drafted him at 3.

The Houston press already has articles like-give him time. I think he did have a good summer league.

I don’t agree that there are hundreds/thousands of kids that have the right genetics (propriceptor system, vision, muscle fiber types, etc) to rise to the top of the shooting pyramid.

 

[IUNorth]

The Houston press already has articles like-give him time. I think he did have a good summer league.

I don’t agree that there are hundreds/thousands of kids that have the right genetics (propriceptor system, vision, muscle fiber types, etc) to rise to the top of the shooting pyramid.

I promise there are easily hundreds of kids out there, in every class, that can shoot it as well as Shepherd can...if you're talking about just shooting a basketball. Which is the point you were trying to make against Sobester....seemingly? If not, and you are saying shooting is the most important virtue, in a long list of other virtues...you're both saying the same thing, and probably arguing just to be arguing at this point.

 

[CriticArisen]

I promise there are easily hundreds of kids out there, in every class, that can shoot it as well as Shepherd can...if you're talking about just shooting a basketball. Which is the point you were trying to make against Sobester....seemingly? If not, and you are saying shooting is the most important virtue, in a long list of other virtues...you're both saying the same thing, and probably arguing just to be arguing at this point.

All the cases I know of it was apparent at an early age (high school latest) that great shooters had the secret sauce. There is a genetic component that follows a normal probability curve that contributes materially to a great shooter. It was apparent at an early age that Steph Curry had it and others didn’t. I saw a video of his high school coach talking about he had to beg him to shoot more so they could win. Steph didn’t want his teammates to think he was a ball hog. Steph was born with a certain rare combination of physical attributes that contribute to his shooting success.

 

[CriticArisen]

Ford was the most “skilled” basketball player I’ve ever seen. He a was 5’8” average athlete at best (by high-school standards) that was considered the second best pg in his class.

I will try to find some videos of his games on YouTube in the next week or so.

 

[sobester]

I will try to find some videos of his games on YouTube in the next week or so.

Madisonville-North Hopkins High School. His dad kind of lived vicariously through him and it was 60 hours of basketball/week from age 3.

 

[CriticArisen]

Madisonville-North Hopkins High School. His dad kind of lived vicariously through him and it was 60 hours of basketball/week from age 3.

I can’t find any video. It looks like the Marshall game used to be available but no longer there. I found this Madisonville YMCA from 1988 so same time same city-


and this-

1988_Basketball Boys' All-State

Clipping found in The Messenger published in Madisonville, Kentucky on 3/16/1988. 1988_Basketball Boys' All-State

www.newspapers.com

So he was on the all star team with Allan Houston. Houston was an incredibly smooth player, never any wasted motion.

 

[CriticArisen]

I found the 87 Indiana Kentucky all star game in Freedom Hall. Pelphrey, Lyndon Jones, Jay Edward’s, and Rick Fox played in that game.

There should be a basketball channel that finds and puts on line old video of high school, college, and pro games.

 

[sobester]

I found the 87 Indiana Kentucky all star game in Freedom Hall. Pelphrey, Lyndon Jones, Jay Edward’s, and Rick Fox played in that game.

There should be a basketball channel that finds and puts on line old video of high school, college, and pro games.

I think Ford would have e been a freshman. I think he was class of 90. Was Rex Chapman 87? I’m thinking 86.

 

[CriticArisen]

I think Ford would have e been a freshman. I think he was class of 90. Was Rex Chapman 87? I’m thinking 86.

I checked his wiki page and he was at Mizzou in 89 and I just noticed he is listed as a Jr on the 88 all star team. I missed this and assumed he was a Sr on that team so have to check further for any of his high school videos in 89 (as a senior).

I have been surprised that Rex is dishing on UK. That guy had some serious hops.

 

[sobester]

I checked his wiki page and he was at Mizzou in 89 and I just noticed he is listed as a Jr on the 88 all star team. I missed this and assumed he was a Sr on that team so have to check further for any of his high school videos in 89 (as a senior).

I have been surprised that Rex is dishing on UK. That guy had some serious hops.

Chapman is a bit of a left-wing activist. I think he had a problem with some issues he had with fans and him having a black girlfriend. He probably has some legit gripes.

 

[ndhuntington]

Honest question: do you see a well coached team out there? It's early in the season and a lot of coaches are experimenting and with that comes moments where things can get sloppy. This is different.

He doesnt get college basketball its the same stuff like last year.

 

[CriticArisen]

I promise there are easily hundreds of kids out there, in every class, that can shoot it as well as Shepherd can...if you're talking about just shooting a basketball. Which is the point you were trying to make against Sobester....seemingly? If not, and you are saying shooting is the most important virtue, in a long list of other virtues...you're both saying the same thing, and probably arguing just to be arguing at this point.

If just shooting then the NBA 3 pt competition provides a good format for testing so you believe there are hundreds to thousands of people the same age as Sheppard that would outshoot him 50% of the time in an NBA shooting contest? Not trying to argue just making sure I understand your statement.

 

[IUNorth]

If just shooting then the NBA 3 pt competition provides a good format for testing so you believe there are hundreds to thousands of people the same age as Sheppard that would outshoot him 50% of the time in an NBA shooting contest? Not trying to argue just making sure I understand your statement.

Just shooting around in an empty gym, 5 racks...yes...100%.

Shepherd has the inherent advantage of playing at Kentucky, and the NBA now, so in a packed NBA arena, in front of thousands of fans, he separates himself from a bunch.

If I took the original point wrong, I'll own it. But one person was arguing that Shepherds athleticism, and skills other than shooting, played little to no role in him being drafted 3rd. I'm making an exaggerated point, to bring differentiators, other than shooting, back in to the conversation.

 

[CriticArisen]

Just shooting around in an empty gym, 5 racks...yes...100%.

Shepherd has the inherent advantage of playing at Kentucky, and the NBA now, so in a packed NBA arena, in front of thousands of fans, he separates himself from a bunch.

If I took the original point wrong, I'll own it. But one person was arguing that Shepherds athleticism, and skills other than shooting, played little to no role in him being drafted 3rd. I'm making an exaggerated point, to bring differentiators, other than shooting, back in to the conversation.

The interest in the NBA All Star game would increase if they invited a couple of guys from The YMCA that beat the pros in the 3 point contest. It could be somewhat similar to the PGA Opens.

 

[IUNorth]

The interest in the NBA All Star game would increase if they invited a couple of guys from The YMCA that beat the pros in the 3 point contest. It could be somewhat similar to the PGA Opens.

That or former renowned shooters, like Steve Alford, Steve Kerr, Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, etc... Guys that are older, but could maybe still shoot 25 shots...maybe give them 2 minutes instead of 1.