The individual I mentioned upthread that died from Covid last week was infected at a mid-week church-related event. Why people would continue to gather for such unnecessary things is baffling to me. Can't you praise your god from home?
Covid is no joke!
- Thread starter iubud
- Start date
The individual I mentioned upthread that died from Covid last week was infected at a mid-week church-related event. Why people would continue to gather for such unnecessary things is baffling to me. Can't you praise your god from home?
I am no churchgoer, but the same could be said of quite a few activities, both essential and not. I could watch a movie, sporting event, grocery shop, pharmacy order, holiday shop, restaurant shop all from the comfort of my home. It still hasn't stopped people from gathering in all of those places.
Every responsible church in this area I know of is doing virtual services exclusively. Jesus even said it's not necessary to do a formal "service": Matthew 18:20: “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
Human nature to blame it on someone else! I guess that bad, mean guy came to her house with a gun and forced her to go to Thanksgiving with her son's GF's family, despite all the warnings against it! "How dare you take my life in your hands?" ... that I willingly put in them!
Viral spread: Americans paying the price for Thanksgiving
With some Americans now paying the price for what they did over Thanksgiving and falling sick with COVID-19, health officials are warning people — begging them, even — not to make the same mistake during the Christmas and New Year's season.apnews.com
Zana Cooper, a 60-year-old cancer survivor in Murrieta, California, tested positive for COVID-19 after attending a Thanksgiving dinner with her son’s girlfriend’s family. At the dinner, the girlfriend’s father, who had recently traveled to Florida, wasn’t feeling well and went to bed early.Cooper learned the following Sunday that he tested positive.“My first reaction was the f-word. I was so mad,” she said. “I was upset. I was angry. I was like, ‘How dare you take my life in your hands?’”She has had fever and headaches, a runny nose and bloodshot eyes, and in recent days it has become more difficult to breathe and she has been using an inhaler. She said she believes she brought the virus home to her daughter and two grandchildren, who live with her and are now ill with what a doctor diagnosed as COVID-19.
Obituary of Marvin J. Farr
Dr. Marvin James Farr, 81, of Scott City, Kan., passed away Dec. 1, 2020, in isolation at Park Lane Nursing Home. He was preceded in death by more than 260,000 Americans infected with covid-19. He died in a room not his own, being cared for by people dressed in confusing and frightening ways. He died with covid-19, and his final days were harder, scarier and lonelier than necessary. He was not surrounded by friends and family.
Marvin was born May 23, 1939 to Jim and Dorothy Farr of Modoc, Kan. He was born into an America recovering from the Great Depression and about to face World War 2, times of loss and sacrifice difficult for most of us to imagine. Americans would be asked to ration essential supplies and send their children around the world to fight and die in wars of unfathomable destruction. He died in a world where many of his fellow Americans refuse to wear a piece of cloth on their face to protect one another.
Marvin was a farmer and a veterinarian. He graduated from Kansas State University in 1968. His careers filled his life with an understanding of the science of life: how to nurture it, how to sustain it, and the myriad ways that life can go wrong. As a young man he debated between studying mortuary or veterinary science. He chose life over death.
Dr. Marvin James Farr, 81, of Scott City, Kan., passed away Dec. 1, 2020, in isolation at Park Lane Nursing Home. He was preceded in death by more than 260,000 Americans infected with covid-19. He died in a room not his own, being cared for by people dressed in confusing and frightening ways. He died with covid-19, and his final days were harder, scarier and lonelier than necessary. He was not surrounded by friends and family.
Marvin was born May 23, 1939 to Jim and Dorothy Farr of Modoc, Kan. He was born into an America recovering from the Great Depression and about to face World War 2, times of loss and sacrifice difficult for most of us to imagine. Americans would be asked to ration essential supplies and send their children around the world to fight and die in wars of unfathomable destruction. He died in a world where many of his fellow Americans refuse to wear a piece of cloth on their face to protect one another.
Marvin was a farmer and a veterinarian. He graduated from Kansas State University in 1968. His careers filled his life with an understanding of the science of life: how to nurture it, how to sustain it, and the myriad ways that life can go wrong. As a young man he debated between studying mortuary or veterinary science. He chose life over death.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Do you have your groceries delivered to you? I praise my God everyday. The point of church is found in Hebrews 10:25. We are extremely careful at our church. Our greeting time is waving at one another for instance.
I can distinguish between things that are necessary and things that are not. People need to eat. They don't need Wednesday night bible study. Or bowling, where someone else I know picked it up. Yes, one can get it anywhere, but why are you dumb****s maximizing your surface area by going to all of these useless venues? I'm sure the dead lady's church was very careful too.
Responsible churches aren't forsaking worship, they are just doing it online until they can meet safely.
Stop it. Covid is not political. We had no warning and little time to get this under control. Early assumptions were wrong and changed on the fly. Covid spreads from individuals and not from the left or the right. Political parties are all corrupt but I haven't seen either side wanting this to continue.
Working in various engineering and product development roles at all levels including Pharma for years, I have seen it take years to expand a new line within the same production facility. I worked on an expansion of Pulmozyme for Roche/Genentech and the manufacture of it within Catalent. New product qualifications require site approval, line equipment testing, process stability, product stability testing, and other hurdles to prove effectiveness and safety. The process can start over at any failure. We leveraged existing safe delivery systems while looking at better long term development for these vaccines. It took a lot of fortitude on Pharma and the government to be producing vaccine before it was approved. It didn't happen without a lot of pushing from the administration and Pharma accepting a lot of financial risk. I fully accepted this risk as a Pfizer stockholder.
It was the best of what we can do in this country and I see someone stating that conservatives are not Americans. No, Americans are, or were, bold, strong and able to cut through roadblocks to get the job done. Our government had forgotten how to rise to an emergency. We knew how to convert auto lines to build bombers in WWII. Any idea of the capital, equipment, plant infrastructure and planning it takes to do that? I do. It takes Toyota 2 years to change from one version of the Highlander to the next generation after the design is locked in.
We developed widespread testing for a virus we had no information about and developed a vaccine and will distribute it within one year. Those in product development, research, manufacturing engineering, compliance, packaging and supply chain know what was needed especially with the FDA and other government approvals. Our health providers jumped in quickly and found treatments for millions like myself. While they were working and getting sick, politicians and political hacks were trying to discount treatments that the orange man mentioned and claiming they wouldn't take a vaccine the administration recommended. They seem to think the orange man was the sole person making and passing out the drug. In fact there were thousands of people from all political beliefs working to make this happen. Politicians suck. They all do. People that believe their side is better suck too. People like that are only useful when they get out of the way and let us do what we do best.
I have been to church once since March. They were carefully distanced, no contact, no singing and no touching of doors. People came in, sat down and were released without being within yards of each other. I haven't gone back because it wasn't safe. It was far safer than Menards or the grocery store, or grabbing the fuel nozzle and punching in my pin at the gas station. It is safer than carry out from a stranger. I quit because I go to church to interact with people and talk to the pastor after the service. Being physically at church isn't necessary or even possible for now. I can watch online and text my pastor as I did Sunday about the relevance of his message and how it was what I needed to hear. BTW, my pastor and I are on opposite ends of the political scale. When it comes to religion, we speak the same language.
I only care about keeping my only living parent safe. That means dropping his Christmas presents off at his door this year and waving from the driveway.
I am always mystified as to which directives in the Bible I should follow and which I can take a pass on.
So... I do need some advice from you, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging!
Well, I've had it too and while I agree with your praise on the development of the vaccine, I think there is much that could have been done by an administration that took the virus seriously, early on, or at all for that matter. Testing to this date is uneven and imo, still much of a crap shoot. I said early on (March?) we should have a national shutdown for 3 weeks to reset the case load to as close to 0 as possible, and take that time to develop strategies and policies by industry, or size (company policies for under 50 employees, 50-200, etc... ), universities, hospitals, schools, churches, airlines, etc... instead of all these groups acting independently, and much of that still hasn't happened. And to get a jump on the development of vaccines, building of ventilators, set national and local policies, etc... These aren't politically motivated comments, these are just observations of where we are and what's transpired.
All that bad-assed Old Testament shit was superseded by that candy-assed new testament turn the other cheek wussy stuff. I'd haul my ass to worship if we could stone some a-holes, though to be honest my ass would likely be the one getting stoned.
I feel so guilty with myself, I just went ahead and got stoned this weekend. I feel much better now, but, I'm unlikely to change my ways.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
I get it you are not a Christian. But once you understand your sin before God, and what Jesus did for you on the Cross (took your eternal punishment) then you would understand God's Word.
I just want to know why I can't own a Canadian. The Bible says that I can...
lol. Using an obituary to get in a dig at anti-maskers, what a way to celebrate a life.
Yeah. I wouldn't mind a Canadian or three.
That just gave me a Canadian Club...followed shortly (pun intended) after by a Canadian Mist.
The response to COVID has been politicized by Trump and his followers. That's the primary reason the virus has been out of control in the US . . . their unwillingness to follow the science and behave accordingly.
So pound sand, bud. Pound sand.
Just in case you forgot, there is an entire forum dedicated to political and religious banter and assorted feckery:
https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/forums/the-water-cooler.12/
Even Canadian bewbery x3 couldn't bring this back around. We're facked.
I know two people who passed away who have done nothing but church. Another made it but was on a vent. Passed around from a church meeting.
Picking up things from a store where you are always moving is quite different than sitting still for an hour or more in the sam spot.
It has been politicized by every politician and misinformation has been spread, smeared and used to scare or sway the public for political gain. Early reports from the media said it wasn't going to be a big deal (CNN and others) and they had to change like everyone did when we learned more. Again, the first experts were in China and they weren't telling us much.
There was faulty information but the boots on the ground determined the real science while politicians argued over who was right. There are no winners or losers. We had to move quick with what we knew. The target didn't move we just had to correct our aim.
I put my trust in professionals with knowledge instead of career politicians trying to preserve their power and influence by any means necessary. In the end, we have treatments, all the testing we need and vaccines and an over capacity of facilities and equipment. My current enterprise is supplying 500,000 buckets with 1,000 sanitizing wipes each. The product didn't exist 3 months ago. There was a need and we are filling the need quickly and at a low cost with excess capacity.
Not to mention such a integral part of "going to church" is the fellowship and hugging/touching people. I'd wager that in VPM's "very careful and safe" church, there are many "old-timers" who come on Sunday and are hugging on each other, or pulling their masks down to talk with their friends. That's why responsible leaders are doing all online services, to eliminate that risk. You can ask folks to socially distance, wear masks, etc... but once they get to church and see their life-long friends, instincts take over. You're not going to go to the store, pharmacy, restaurant, etc... and remove your mask and/or hug strangers, but folks will do it every Sunday at church.
I'd say there have been at least 300,000 losers, not counting critical illnesses that didn't end in death, and of course not counting family members of the 300,000. Oh, add in the estimated 150,000 - 200,000 people that may still die from COVID-19 before we reach herd immunity. Might as well add in the millions affected by the economic stress. Let's not forget the children whose education has been affected.
I haven't heard anyone state that the present administration could have prevented all deaths. But strong leadership would have made a huge difference.
Not all, but I think many deaths might have been prevented, and much other pain and suffering as you described (economic, educational, etc...). While I'm a critic of how the pandemic has been "handled" by the Admin, I also think the deaths are probably overstated a bit. I'd be curious to know how many of those who were elderly and critically-ill that have died and been attributed to Covid, would have died during this time period anyway. I think it's probably a pretty significant percentage (I'd guess 25-60% or so). I also suspect there's some benefit to the "agencies" involved (hospitals, nursing homes, etc...) to have Covid as the COD. I bet the gov't picks up the tab for many of the services and care if that's the case.
Which part? There is no financial benefit to a medical facility to have a patient die from Covid, versus other causes?
Explain how we could have made a vaccine earlier, developed testing faster, developed treatment plans quicker? Politicians argue they would have done a better job, but there is no evidence to base that. Critics made fun of those saying we would have a vaccine by the end of the year. Many said it would take years. Deaconess Hospital in Evansville is dispensing the vaccine today.
Again, I know the product life cycle for regulated industries. This response was lightning quick, massive without sacrificing safety and quality and successful for a deadly and highly contagious virus.
It is okay to give credit for a process that we are seeing unfold. You can continue to hate Trump. Remember, Trump didn't make the vaccine himself and Biden didn't make any from his basement. It was the people, evil corporations, over-payed CEOs and patient stock holders that did it with the support of our leadership to give them what they needed and push them when needed.
kkott, if anything, the numbers associated with COVID-19 deaths are probably understated. And no, hospitals are not raking in $$$ because they diagnosed COVID versus heart attack. But whether the death toll from COVID-19 is 200,000 or 500,000, the truth is the horrible leadership demonstrated by the current administration, and most importantly, Trump himself, resulted in much worse outcomes for the USA. It didn't have to be this way.
I don't disagree that the creation of the vaccines is a remarkable story of success. That success has much to do with science, private corporations, and dedicated individuals. Trump was no part of that. Trump displayed horrible leadership which resulted in the terrible outcomes from COVID-19 in the USA. Your over-the-top, butt-hurt response doesn't fly Bud.
Understated how so? Do you not agree that many of the folks who died from Covid were going to die in relatively similar time frames anyway? I could agree the # of reported cases could be higher, as I'm sure many people just dealt with it at home, or were asymptomatic, but i would guess once you get so sick to die from it, almost all of those are reported as covid.
Similar threads
