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Thank youSorry to hear of his experience and his tragic death.
We have always been in the top 8 of most a lot of four star recruits in the past even in the really down years and sometimes in even in the top 5 yet seldom in the top 3.Maybe, at this point in the re-build, it IS a big deal. Just sayin . . .
Know you seem skeptical but a Top 10 year and national coach of year honors, Jan FL bowl second year in a row and losing only to OSU by 7 in a great national TV game...something tells me IU’s brand may be higher now don’t you think?We have always been in the top 8 of most a lot of four star recruits in the past even in the really down years and sometimes in even in the top 5 yet seldom in the top 3.
Maybe, at this point in the re-build, it IS a big deal. Just sayin . . .
Who was arguing that point? Also, I am not skeptical at all. Right now we have the best environment for recruiting in the history of our program. From our facilities, on field success, media exposure, to our coaches approach to recruiting.Know you seem skeptical but a Top 10 year and national coach of year honors, Jan FL bowl second year in a row and losing only to OSU by 7 in a great national TV game...something tells me IU’s brand may be higher now don’t you think?
And yet under Wilson the Hoosiers had bookend 1st round draft pick offensive tackles. There is something to be said about developing Talent on the offensive line.We have landed exactly one four star offensive lineman in the last ten years, and he flamed out.
Hiller not recruiting four stars here isn't a him thing. It's a program thing. Top prospects don't come to a school that doesn't win. We just started winning two years ago. Give it some time.
And I wouldn't get my hopes up on Moore. I get the sense we're not in the lead group. Not our fault, he just wants to get away from the state.
Spriggs was drafted in the second round and Feeney was a guard and was drafted in the third round.And yet under Wilson the Hoosiers had bookend 1st round draft pick offensive tackles. There is something to be said about developing Talent on the offensive line.
And yet under Wilson the Hoosiers had bookend 1st round draft pick offensive tackles. There is something to be said about developing Talent on the offensive line.
Wisconsin since 2017 12 Ol 2 5star 6 4star 4 3star .none of those were ranked below 857 player in nation.Also 6 were ranked top 600 or better 2 top 20 .10 of 12 were ranked top 40 at thsir position. It may have been that Wisconsin got 2 and 3 star guys and developed them ,but that ship sailed a long time ago.When it comes to O Line Play, we put too much emphasis on Star Ratings. Offensive Line is the hardest part of the Game to Learn and Adjust to as you move to College. Therefore it is difficult to predict what Players will be very good Offensive Linemen in College.
Look at Wisconsin and Iowa. They always have very good Lines. If you look at their Rosters, many of them are in State Players who are not 4 and 5 Star ratings. They identify kids with certain abilities, build, and a desire to be in their Program, and know how to develop them and make them productive Players in their Programs. And it doesn't hurt that they have a long history of sending players to the NFL.
That is a recent development. I reviewed their starting oline several years ago and it was comprised of 2* and 3* players across the board. This was probably three years ago.Wisconsin since 2017 12 Ol 2 5star 6 4star 4 3star .none of those were ranked below 857 player in nation.Also 6 were ranked top 600 or better 2 top 20 .10 of 12 were ranked top 40 at thsir position. It may have been that Wisconsin got 2 and 3 star guys and developed them ,but that ship sailed a long time ago.
Not sure that really proves your point. How many of these guys did we even offer? Also different staff at the time. Facilities have improved. We were not on a fair playing for a few years that you included.Did some digging to justify my point. While Rivals database does not allow you to identify if recruits in the past had Indiana in their top 8 or not I could identify who were four stars and who they committed to which I think we all can agree, just by math, should be a much lower percentage than a commit.
Since 2013 the state of Indiana has had 42 four star or higher recruits(not counting the 2022 class as many are still open). Since 2013 Indiana has signed 8 of them which is just under 20 percent. So, no I dont think a 4 star having us in their top 8 is a huge deal.
Don't stop him - he's on a roll.Spriggs was drafted in the second round and Feeney was a guard and was drafted in the third round.
Or maybe they saw that 7 of the 23 we have on roster are juniors or older. We obviously value big guys more than the guys to the north who covet wide receivers. We also have 19 defensive linemen but play a 4 man front. You don’t want a bunch of linemen leave and not have young guys in the strength program and learning the college game.We signed 7 OL in the class of '20 which tells me we the staff saw the offensive line cupboard as a bit bare. I want to give Hiller more time to see what he can do with these players before making any judgements
Because they have run first mentality and that is what the NFL is looking for. I am not sure we are ready to turn to that concept with th number of 4 star quarterbacks we have acquired.When it comes to O Line Play, we put too much emphasis on Star Ratings. Offensive Line is the hardest part of the Game to Learn and Adjust to as you move to College. Therefore it is difficult to predict what Players will be very good Offensive Linemen in College.
Look at Wisconsin and Iowa. They always have very good Lines. If you look at their Rosters, many of them are in State Players who are not 4 and 5 Star ratings. They identify kids with certain abilities, build, and a desire to be in their Program, and know how to develop them and make them productive Players in their Programs. And it doesn't hurt that they have a long history of sending players to the NFL.
patient for holes to open? They were straight getting smoked behind the line of scrimmage way to often. Stevie Scott yards per carry has dropped each year .I'm not entirely sure its all on the line though. Our backs need to be patient and wait for holes to open and not just rush to the line as fast as they can every play.
Its a total team effort.
I think there is more to to be said than just identifying talent. Midwest boys don't need to be 4 stars for you to have a great line.And yet under Wilson the Hoosiers had bookend 1st round draft pick offensive tackles. There is something to be said about developing Talent on the offensive line.
patient for holes to open? They were straight getting smoked behind the line of scrimmage way to often. Stevie Scott yards per carry has dropped each year .
I think there is more than be said about identifying talent. Midwest boys don't need to be 4 stars to have a great line.
Well, he's certainly not the solution, to this point anyway. I hear a rumor that Louisville is looking at him for OC?? That's surprising, & a bit....baffling, tbh.Run game coordinator means nothing it is a way of getting Hiller more money. The offensive coordinator is the run game coordinator. I am not sure if Hiller is or is not the problem. I don’t go to meetings and practices so I don’t know what is done or not done. I do know we have had a lineman go to NFL every year since he has been here. He potentially has two this year Crider and technically Cronk.
Very true, but for the most part from what I've seen of our running game, patience on the part of our backs would result in 4 yard losses instead of 2 yard losses. We can't run block, unless we're playing against a s#!++y front 7. Period. & that needs immediate improvementYes, waiting for holes to open.
Sometimes backs need to wait for blocks to occur. That doesn't always happen and its on the running backs. If the running backs aren't patient and don't let the offensive lineman set up the blocks, the plays won't work.
It's really not hard to understand.
Don’t know why it would be baffling. He has coached in some high powered offenses at Houston, at Cincinnati at USF and even at IU with they had everyone healthy. I guess though you know Hiller and talked to him about schemes and philosophy and maybe attend practices and meetings.Well, he's certainly not the solution, to this point anyway. I hear a rumor that Louisville is looking at him for OC?? That's surprising, & a bit....baffling, tbh.
Wow. Makes a guy not want to put an opinion out there on this board when one gets this kind of response. No wonder people don’t want to participate. He really didn’t even say anything bad about Hiller just that he found it baffling. I really don’t think he needs to have attended practice to be able to make that kind of statement on a discussion board.Don’t know why it would be baffling. He has coached in some high powered offenses at Houston, at Cincinnati at USF and even at IU with they had everyone healthy. I guess though you know Hiller and talked to him about schemes and philosophy and maybe attend practices and meetings.
Just wondering why it is baffling that Hiller would be considered a candidate for the Cincinnati oc job? Thought it was a discussion board my bad.Wow. Makes a guy not want to put an opinion out there on this board when one gets this kind of response. No wonder people don’t want to participate. He really didn’t even say anything bad about Hiller just that he found it baffling. I really don’t think he needs to have attended practice to be able to make that kind of statement on a discussion board.
? What are you--his wife? I've seen our O-line digress every year he's been here. Doesn't exactly scream, "hire me".Don’t know why it would be baffling. He has coached in some high powered offenses at Houston, at Cincinnati at USF and even at IU with they had everyone healthy. I guess though you know Hiller and talked to him about schemes and philosophy and maybe attend practices and meetings.
Why does that make me his wife because he is being considered for a job as an oc? It is your opinion that o line has digressed does that mean he stole your girlfriend? Have said it before we have had a guy go to the NFLeach season he has been here? This year it could be technically 2 with Crider and Cronk. According to a poster who posted that finished at # 16 in pass protection. Watched 2 different pieces by Urban Meyer talking about how impressed he was with the IU offensive line. Like him or not he knows football. Don’t disagree we need to run the football better. We can get even better in pass protection. Hopefully we will get a more normal off season and get stronger in the weight room. Have a full spring to work on technique and add to our schemes with our offensive coordinator’ second season.? What are you--his wife? I've seen our O-line digress every year he's been here. Doesn't exactly scream, "hire me".
I think you may have missed my point. My point was that a 4 star recruit from Indiana having us in their top 8 is not a big deal as since 2013 we have had almost 20 percent of them sign with us. So if 20 percent of them sign with us then the percent of 4 star recruits who had us in the top 8 was most likely much higher. Hence, my point. A 4 star recruit having us in their top 8 is not a big deal or ground breaking.Not sure that really proves your point. How many of these guys did we even offer? Also different staff at the time. Facilities have improved. We were not on a fair playing for a few years that you included.
I can agree top 8 is not really that for sure. I was talking to a Michigan fan today at work and we were talking that in the past Michigan had gotten a lot of o linemen from Ft Wayne we seem to have maybe slowed that trend down a little bit. But here’s to hoping we can up that 20 to 50 or more.I think you may have missed my point. My point was that a 4 star recruit from Indiana having us in their top 8 is not a big deal as since 2013 we have had almost 20 percent of them sign with us. So if 20 percent of them sign with us then the percent of 4 star recruits who had us in the top 8 was most likely much higher. Hence, my point. A 4 star recruit having us in their top 8 is not a big deal or ground breaking.
If true, I would welcome a change for him (promotion) and IU, fresh new OL coach who could be a real riser in coaching world and good new energy and recruiter for IU.Well, he's certainly not the solution, to this point anyway. I hear a rumor that Louisville is looking at him for OC?? That's surprising, & a bit....baffling, tbh.
I agree.If true, I would welcome a change for him (promotion) and IU, fresh new OL coach who could be a real riser in coaching world and good new energy and recruiter for IU.
Exactly--it's a discussions board. Not a jump someone's s#1+ if you don't agree with their post.Just wondering why it is baffling that Hiller would be considered a candidate for the Cincinnati oc job? Thought it was a discussion board my bad.
Because you responded so defensevely to...much ado about nothing, really. Has nothing to do with him being considered for an OC job. Has to do with your response to my post. & as for our O-line, sure there's some room for objectivity there, but regardless of what Urban Meyer or anyone else says about our O-line, when we average 3.1 YPC--which we did this year--I think we have a problem. More of a problem than, "could be better". Of course that's just my opinion! Others may vary, & obviously do!Why does that make me his wife because he is being considered for a job as an oc? It is your opinion that o line has digressed does that mean he stole your girlfriend? Have said it before we have had a guy go to the NFLeach season he has been here? This year it could be technically 2 with Crider and Cronk. According to a poster who posted that finished at # 16 in pass protection. Watched 2 different pieces by Urban Meyer talking about how impressed he was with the IU offensive line. Like him or not he knows football. Don’t disagree we need to run the football better. We can get even better in pass protection. Hopefully we will get a more normal off season and get stronger in the weight room. Have a full spring to work on technique and add to our schemes with our offensive coordinator’ second season.
In a an abbreviated spring no summer and practice and a preseason that was very inconsistent what would you have spent more time on run blocking or protecting a potential franchise quarterback who is injury prone? If you through the ball 60 % of the time you work pass pro 60% in practice. If you run the ball the 60% of the time you should work run blocks 60% of the time. People do not understand the importance of time lost spring, summer and fall. Time is very valuable to preparing an offensive line more so than any other unit. It must operate as one. It is easy to sit here and point fingers and criticize but unless you are there on a daily basis it is impossible to determine the issues. The other thing is your first game out of is against Penn State a perennial top defensive team not UConn. Iu played 7 BIG teams this year and an SEC West team. I don’t care what the records of those teams finished they are tough battle byested teams. You also played 7 consecutive weeks that is a huge grind for any team. You can call these excuses if you want to but you talk to anyone that has coached and they will tell you the same thing. Yes we have to expand the run game and it needs to get better. But I will tell you if this off season is like last and Penix is our starter then I don’t give a damn what are yards per carry average is and I can tell you that CTA can tell you and we need to run the football but he is telling the offensive staff we need to figure a way to make sure Penix can deliver the ball.Because you responded so defensevely to...much ado about nothing, really. Has nothing to do with him being considered for an OC job. Has to do with your response to my post. & as for our O-line, sure there's some room for objectivity there, but regardless of what Urban Meyer or anyone else says about our O-line, when we average 3.1 YPC--which we did this year--I think we have a problem. More of a problem than, "could be better". Of course that's just my opinion! Others may vary, & obviously do!
We need to block better(as afar as the O-line is concerned), Penix just...it's simple: he stays healthy. or he doesn't. & fortune seems to play a big role in that, although....it might be time to shelve ANY designed runs for him. & HE was soley reasponsible for...a lot of loffensive success last year, but also his release really aided pass blocking, which was considerable better than run blocking anyway. I think McCulley needs to be ready, becasue there could be an opportunity for him in '21.In a an abbreviated spring no summer and practice and a preseason that was very inconsistent what would you have spent more time on run blocking or protecting a potential franchise quarterback who is injury prone? If you through the ball 60 % of the time you work pass pro 60% in practice. If you run the ball the 60% of the time you should work run blocks 60% of the time. People do not understand the importance of time lost spring, summer and fall. Time is very valuable to preparing an offensive line more so than any other unit. It must operate as one. It is easy to sit here and point fingers and criticize but unless you are there on a daily basis it is impossible to determine the issues. The other thing is your first game out of is against Penn State a perennial top defensive team not UConn. Iu played 7 BIG teams this year and an SEC West team. I don’t care what the records of those teams finished they are tough battle byested teams. You also played 7 consecutive weeks that is a huge grind for any team. You can call these excuses if you want to but you talk to anyone that has coached and they will tell you the same thing. Yes we have to expand the run game and it needs to get better. But I will tell you if this off season is like last and Penix is our starter then I don’t give a damn what are yards per carry average is and I can tell you that CTA can tell you and we need to run the football but he is telling the offensive staff we need to figure a way to make sure Penix can deliver the ball.
In fairness to Coach Hiller, and CTA touched on this, the run game was purposely kept very ”vanilla” this year due to COVID because they knew personnel availability would/could be very fluid week to week. Does our Oline need to keep improving ? For sure, some of that is just plain recruiting better players, including better backs ( and maybe coaching them up too as that can make a line look better), but to place the blame for the lack of a running game this year totally at Hiller’s feet isn’t justified, nor is letting him completely off the hook.In a an abbreviated spring no summer and practice and a preseason that was very inconsistent what would you have spent more time on run blocking or protecting a potential franchise quarterback who is injury prone? If you through the ball 60 % of the time you work pass pro 60% in practice. If you run the ball the 60% of the time you should work run blocks 60% of the time. People do not understand the importance of time lost spring, summer and fall. Time is very valuable to preparing an offensive line more so than any other unit. It must operate as one. It is easy to sit here and point fingers and criticize but unless you are there on a daily basis it is impossible to determine the issues. The other thing is your first game out of is against Penn State a perennial top defensive team not UConn. Iu played 7 BIG teams this year and an SEC West team. I don’t care what the records of those teams finished they are tough battle byested teams. You also played 7 consecutive weeks that is a huge grind for any team. You can call these excuses if you want to but you talk to anyone that has coached and they will tell you the same thing. Yes we have to expand the run game and it needs to get better. But I will tell you if this off season is like last and Penix is our starter then I don’t give a damn what are yards per carry average is and I can tell you that CTA can tell you and we need to run the football but he is telling the offensive staff we need to figure a way to make sure Penix can deliver the ball.
McCulley? Don’t you think you are underestimating Tuttle and Dexter Williams? They will both have 1.5 a d 2.5 years on Donaven. We have seen Tuttle.... very competent. Hearing Dexter is good as well. Hopefully we’ll see more of him this spring.We need to block better(as afar as the O-line is concerned), Penix just...it's simple: he stays healthy. or he doesn't. & fortune seems to play a big role in that, although....it might be time to shelve ANY designed runs for him. & HE was soley reasponsible for...a lot of loffensive success last year, but also his release really aided pass blocking, which was considerable better than run blocking anyway. I think McCulley needs to be ready, becasue there could be an opportunity for him in '21.
Nope. I'm accurately estimating the injury risks forTuttle & Penix, & then you're talking Williams & McCulley(potentially). Yes I've heard good things about Dexter Williams too, but McCulley is a potential Blue Chipper & either way. he would need to ready to play in that course of events. Might seem far fetched, but it's happened too many times to us over the years(losing multiple QB's to injury &/or unexpected transfer, or some B.S.)for me to discount it as a possibility. I was actually surprised Ramsey didn't get hurt last year('19)after Penix went down, just considering how any times that type of thing has befallen us. Hell--it happened this year! Tuttle would have not played beyong the bowl game--had the season gone on(hypothetically speaking) & I was actually surprised he finished that game.McCulley? Don’t you think you are underestimating Tuttle and Dexter Williams? They will both have 1.5 a d 2.5 years on Donaven. We have seen Tuttle.... very competent. Hearing Dexter is good as well. Hopefully we’ll see more of him this spring.
Because our OC is not the best either. Im worried Allen may pull a mallory and not fire assistant coaches that everyone can see needs to goActually, our Wildcat package, with Stevie running the ball, was pretty effective. I don't know why we didn't run it more in short-yardage situations.
I am concerned about both of those coaches but we can't go by a season without spring practice to know if they are a problem or not.Because our OC is not the best either. Im worried Allen may pull a mallory and not fire assistant coaches that everyone can see needs to go
I'm not entirely sure its all on the line though. Our backs need to be patient and wait for holes to open and not just rush to the line as fast as they can every play.
Its a total team effort.
The ranking is do to a small number of players due to the roster. The average is much better measure.I can agree top 8 is not really that for sure. I was talking to a Michigan fan today at work and we were talking that in the past Michigan had gotten a lot of o linemen from Ft Wayne we seem to have maybe slowed that trend down a little bit. But here’s to hoping we can up that 20 to 50 or more.
I don't know. I see guys leaving, and I'm not sure it's entirely their choice.Because our OC is not the best either. Im worried Allen may pull a mallory and not fire assistant coaches that everyone can see needs to go