that moter ****er would have wondered what him when he woke up next week , should have got his monnies worth bd blasted that bastard
cj gunn
- Thread starter kurt cloverdales
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maybe, but you're talking about a pickup or rec league game. That would've pissed me off too, but you can't do that, as Hummel said, with 10 cameras around. A thousand ways to react, either by stepping back to diffuse, flailing your arms and falling back to alert the ref, or wait til play starts and land a good elbow away from the ball if that's what you want to do, but that was just stupid. I don't feel like IU has ever been known as dirty or thugs, but we are now. Maybe the weakest thugs ever. Leary said Draymond probably watched that and thought "amateur!"
They aren't thugs, just undisciplined. That seems to be the main trait Woody looks for in a recruit. Either that or lack of heart/hustle. Probably both.
I'm not talking about what you, or other IU fans, think. I'm talking about what the fans of every other B10 program think of our team right now.
I don't think fans of other BIG teams think about IU at all. IU is becoming a laughingstock.
I don't blame CJ 1 iota. Talk about a powerpuff foul. My 7 month old Granddaughter has hit me with more. Call a damn foul and play ball instead of PCing every infraction.
Came over here to see what the reaction was to this because it seemed slanted against Gunn to me on social media. But I agree with you guys here. The Wisconsin player has stronger contact with the headbutt than Gunn's reactionary elbow grazing Klesmit's face. I don't even think Gunn was trying to contact his face at all, just trying to clear the space around him which he is entitled to. I come away from that thinking Klesmit is the dirty player, not Gunn. Hate to see Gunn get labeled based on what XJ has done and fans maybe getting frustrated with the team. The officials maybe had to hit Gunn with a flagrant based on how rules are written but I would've given Klesmit the same flagrant for his headbutt initiating the whole thing.
Exactly, the damn replay shows both infractions. All the juvenile refs had to do was call a foul on both. Or if they really want to be PC, call a lesser flagrant on both. I don't often make a prediction but I'll bet a Mrs. Jackson's son we'll see Gunn's play become more productive moving forward. Some people focus keenly and respond more positively after incidents of attention.
That would have worked out even better. Fish are smarter than Gunn when it comes to taking the bait. Im sorry, but we play like we act and are coached with no discipline so this is what happens. Stupid fouls, dumb plays, no energy, bad decisions on and off the court. This is what IU basketball is turning in to. Garbage
I agree with your points unfortunately. He got baited and bit which you can't do at this level. I will say I think Klesmit got lessons from Brad Davidson on acting and getting away with it. Sorry Tyra Buss, Brad was a hardnosed player, but he was the biggest flopper in the Big Ten in my life time.
Klesmit looked like he was nuzzling Gunn in the replay. Gunn should have run his fingers through Klesmit’s hair, or whispered in his ear, or just given him a hug.
Not in Ohio. Football is king here and I can tell you nearly everyone I talk to thinks IU is still good. All they remember is IU being good. It is nice when IU beats OSU too.
The only thing that saved me in Ohio was finding the Dielman family in the next neighborhood. Kris and my daughter were in High School and Mike his dad was at a Honda supplier like me in HR. They had moved from Mishawaka to Ohio from the Penn school district. Mike unfortunately died from a blow to the chest in a pick up basketball game at the high school. Cam Cameron got an initial secondary recruiting violation for attending the funeral of Mike. Fortunately Kris made it to IU and eventually was all pro with the Chargers. Retired because of too many concussions and wanting to be able to be active with his family and kids.Not in Ohio. Football is king here and I can tell you nearly everyone I talk to thinks IU is still good. All they remember is IU being good. It is nice when IU beats OSU too.
Wow! That’s a heck of a way to die.
I’m familiar with the Kris Dielman story. I hope he’s doing OK.
You just aged yourself.Not in Ohio. Football is king here and I can tell you nearly everyone I talk to thinks IU is still good. All they remember is IU being good. It is nice when IU beats OSU too.
I actually think that would’ve been awesome. Would’ve kept CJ in the game, and maybe freaked Klesmit out and taken him out of the rhythm he was in. Would have been awkwardly hilarious to watch on television. Can the refs give you an F2 for “excessive intimate attention” towards an opposing player?
It's been forever since IU has been "good". Those people you speak with must be old. Therefore, you are likely old as well.
No offense. I'm old too.
Davidson was an annoying dirtbag that took the beauty out of basketball. F him and anyone else who bastardizes the game we love (LaFraud James). And I couldn't care less about that little airhead blondie who enjoyed showing her ass when the punk was playing.
No. It’s not age. Most people in Ohio pay little attention to basketball. Some probably think Knight is still coaching.
They mostly know IU has traditionally been good at basketball and assumes we still are.True story from when I taught at OSU from 2004 through 2007. I taught Naval History. I usually started off each session with a quiz and I usually added a bonus question totally unrelated to history. At that time OSU had the number 1 ranked basketball team and I asked who OSU played the night before and the score. 90 percent of the students didn’t even know they played. It’s all football for them.
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I thought the whole situation was bull shit. They can see in the tape the instigator, and the near love tap of the elbow to say got off of me. Should have not been called, but their are rules and policies that give these ref a shield. Pathetic for the most part.
Had the X issues not happened I seriously doubt there would have been more than a warning
To both players.
Wrong place wrong time.
X wasn’t responsible for the problem here. The “wrong place wrong time” was CJ’s reactionary elbow occurring directly in front of the Wisconsin bench…in MADISON.
We will have to agree to disagree on that.
My point is not that X is responsible for what CJ did or where he did it but instead how it was treated by the refs. IU has a short term history.
No, but I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think officials are going to watch IU harder, especially X. Refs are human, and it's likely going to play a part in how games are called against us.
But, I think folks who think this was not going to be called or given a warning are wrong, just because it wasn't in the course of the game and it hit his head. I think that's a defacto flagrant and point of emphasis. As I said, the announcers weren't watching it because they were bringing the ball up on the opposite side of the court, but on the very first replay the announcer said "that's going to be a flagrant 2, right?" It was intentional and a blow to the head. The could've (should of) given the other kid a technical for inciting, but CJ was going to be gone no matter what (XJ or no), imo.
It's like X's "nut job" to the scrotal sac that necessitated an early shower, but in that case the retaliatory reaction was dismissed. It seems to me that both the instigator and the subsequent foul should have been called in both cases for the sake of consistency. For some reason, IU keeps getting the raw end of the deal, almost as if 25 years later we're still paying for the "sins" of Bob Knight.
That's funny, but also what I saw for the 2 years I lived in OH... Worthington. They had some good teams and players back then: Perry Carter, Jim Jackson, Chris Jent (used to call him Nuts) Jay Burson and many others I'm forgetting. But, yeah, Football is #1, Spring Football #2 and then a huge drop and bball #3, maybe. Also, just terrible bball fans. I think it goes back to football, where they get upset if the other team crosses midfield, which happens every other possession in bball, but it makes their fans surly. I've heard them booing with a lead, if their team just goes on a mini-dry spell.No. It’s not age. Most people in Ohio pay little attention to basketball. Some probably think Knight is still coaching.
True story from when I taught at OSU from 2004 through 2007. I taught Naval History. I usually started off each session with a quiz and I usually added a bonus question totally unrelated to history. At that time OSU had the number 1 ranked basketball team and I asked who OSU played the night before and the score. 90 percent of the students didn’t even know they played. It’s all football for them.
It's not for "some reason" and I think has nothing to do with Bob Knight at this point. But I bet if you could sit every B10 ref down and get their honest assessment of X, they'd say dirty player you have to watch. How could that not carry over?
Do I think something should have been called on the WI kid? Yes. Am I surprised at home, with having to watch it in review, it wasn't? No. Am I surprised CJ was tossed with a flagrant 2? Nope. The refs went to the review because of the outcry from the WI bench, so they were already looking for CJ to do something. They saw it and called it. The TV announcers I don't believe even said anything about the WI kid ducking and pushing his head into him, but immediately on the first review said that CJ should be called for a flagrant 2. My honest reaction if I was playing is that I'd have hollered at the ref, and put my head right back into his the same way he was doing, and that would've been my argument to the ref: "thought it was OK since you allowed him to do that to me!" Getting a foul on CJ at that point was no big deal, but getting a flagrant was.
I think I recall the announcers mentioning a little "head nudge" on only one of the many replays, but it was certainly downplayed, given the retaliatory stiff arm of CJ and the eruptive WI over-reaction. IU got screwed, the short end of the stick, on both flagrant 2 foul incidences. IU basketball has lost any semblance of the respect we earned during "glory years" of time almost now forgotten.
I don't know. Cj's elbow wasn't in the flow of the game or anything. The Wisky guy goaded him into it, but it was an elbow thrown by Gunn. I'm not sure what people here think the officials were going to do.
I don't think the officials have it out for IU because of X. I don't even think it mattered how hard the elbow was that was thrown by CJ. He threw an elbow at a dead ball situation. Can't do that.
I don't think the officials have it out for IU because of X. I don't even think it mattered how hard the elbow was that was thrown by CJ. He threw an elbow at a dead ball situation. Can't do that.
After a few days, and seeing the replay and aftermath a number of times. I think the refs messed this one up.
Opposing technical fouls is what should have been called.
Doesn't change my view though, that the teams head isn't in the right place right now. And in that situation, no matter what the Wisky guy was doing, even that soft elbow by CJ was uncalled for.
And while I know Fisch downplayed his comments as being related to the CJ play alone, basically. I would guess he doesn't mean that. CJ's reaction is exponentially more embarrassing because of X's recent Flagrant, AND because we're a very poor basketball team right now, that is playing well below expectation levels.
Opposing technical fouls is what should have been called.
Doesn't change my view though, that the teams head isn't in the right place right now. And in that situation, no matter what the Wisky guy was doing, even that soft elbow by CJ was uncalled for.
And while I know Fisch downplayed his comments as being related to the CJ play alone, basically. I would guess he doesn't mean that. CJ's reaction is exponentially more embarrassing because of X's recent Flagrant, AND because we're a very poor basketball team right now, that is playing well below expectation levels.
Kkott is right, the refs don't really have any discretion if it's a "point of emphasis" and the way the rule is written, elbow to the head is an F2, end of story. That he didn't hurt him or it wasn't very hard isn't a factor. And if the coaches didn't have a pre-season team meeting to go over this year's "points of emphasis" and rule changes, they should have. CJ should have known that he couldn't do that. If he wanted to push the kid away, all he had to do was keep it below the shoulder.
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