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Christopher Columbus was a fraud

I get it now. Clovis was a culture, not a population. It lasted about 400 years. The prevailing technology changed.

It's probably important to remember that the ancestry of native Americans may be complicated. It's possible that pre-Clovis culture traveled down the coast, then radiated from there, and then some time later, Clovis culture traveled the inland corridor route, and then these people - already distantly related, anyway - intermingled. So I'm not trying to say that there was only one founding event; there may have been several. But I do think the common understanding now is that the people associated with Clovis interbred with the pre-Clovis people, rather than replaced them outright. And, again, both the pre-Clovis and Clovis people were probably descended from the same stock of Siberian peoples who settled in Beringia ~20K years ago.
 
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Columbus discovering America would more aptly be described as the Western world discovering America. Which is still a massively consequential event and should be celebrated.
In between the time the Vikings were in Greenland and Columbus sailed to the New World, though, the Vikings also left their mark on all of Europe, so the "Western world" that discovered America, as you say, also had strong Norse influences.
 
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It's their own fault. The Vikings had bad PR people working for them. Now once question I have is if they came to North America did they go back to their homeland or stay here?
Viking exploration of North America was carried out by residents of Greenland. They all disappeared about the time Columbus was making his voyage.
 
The Vikings packed up and went home. Couldn't hack it.

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But doesn't history tell us that Indians were already here when Columbus came over? So back to Marvin's question "How do you discover a place where people are already living?"

Because Vikings and Spainiards are part of Western Civilization's evolution. I don't disagree with the premise of Marvin, but that is the only reason to give them credit.
 
I'm like you, I've always said that "discover" is the wrong word when describing Columbus. On the other hand, I don't think we'll ever know for sure who discovered America.
I have read and seen documentaries on people reaching America before Columbus. He may have been the first commissioned European to return and document the new world.

Iceland and Greenland were known long before Columbus was born. It isn't hard to imagine visitors to northern NA. They may have sailed south along the coast and known about our east coast.

There are some that claim evidence that the Knights Templar found NA while fleeing Europe. Some left France in ships and likely landed in Scotland. Did they learn of lands to the west and continue their travel and end up in NA via Greenland or Iceland? It is fun to speculate, but unlikely The vikings were believed to have known about NA. Who else found it but never returned to document their expeditions?
 
It's probably important to remember that the ancestry of native Americans may be complicated. It's possible that pre-Clovis culture traveled down the coast, then radiated from there, and then some time later, Clovis culture traveled the inland corridor route, and then these people - already distantly related, anyway - intermingled. So I'm not trying to say that there was only one founding event; there may have been several. But I do think the common understanding now is that the people associated with Clovis interbred with the pre-Clovis people, rather than replaced them outright. And, again, both the pre-Clovis and Clovis people were probably descended from the same stock of Siberian peoples who settled in Beringia ~20K years ago.
. . . so Columbus did meet up with Asians . . . just not in Asia. ;)
 
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All you can bow to the World Champs, Chiefs Nation!

And before you call me a bandwagoner, my favorite players growing up were the great DT and the Nigerian Nightmare. If you don't know who that is, look him up. One of the best pure runners ever, who's career was cut short due to injuries.
 
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