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So in other words, you believe racism is the act of “weaponizing” bigotry. Not saying I disagree, but it still is pretty academic and doesn’t have much practical difference from bigotry right?
Chiefs fans
- Thread starter Marvin the Martian
- Start date
There is some strangeness in the numbers. Fox's regional games had higher ratings than last year (Sunday at 1) as did the Fox Sunday at 4 game. My take is people tuned in to watch their team, or Brady-Brees, but not teams they had no vested interest in.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thespun.com/nfl/tv-ratings-are-in-for-the-nfls-week-1-games/amp
I have not seen numbers, but attendance seems way down.
The marquee games were done, the regional games seemed to be higher. Let's see how the late regional game plays out next week after the Brady effect is removed.
I'm sure there are and there are pockets and areas where white or hispanic/latino demographics have much higher percentages. But, these are national averages. So, imagine just how bad things are in Baltimore and the West and South Side of Chicago.
There are plenty of good parents or family of any race. But the discussion is specifically around why one group has fallen behind.
Poor people...
I keep linking studies that being poor causes people to have less ability to plan ahead and make good decisions. Being poor causes people to stay poor (not all certainly).
I agree with your second paragraph and I believe any individual can fall into that trap. I think too often that "institutional racism" gets confused with racism in these topics and then furthermore the assumption is made that "white people" are the institution because they are the majority. I think SOME white people set up the institutions and that SOME white people still sit in a position to impact that, but saying that only white people can be racist because only they have power just is not true. Some poor, racist white guy who works at a service job has no more power to institutionally oppress anyone than a similarly situated black person who does not like white people. They can both be dicks to those in their presence and they can maybe mess with whatever service they provide those they do not like, but they have no power. And part of our institutions are run by blacks now. In fact, in areas where black people tend to be worse off (large urban areas) they tend to have all sorts of representation in institutions. San Francisco is planning on offering a UBI for 6 months to pregnant black and Pacific Islander mothers. Is that not institutional racism against Latinos, Asians, Whites, etc?
My main issue is that I believe there is a subset of all people, of all races, who just kind of have a sucky outlook. If you think that someone is inferior to you based on race, you are a moron. And you are a similarly shitty moron whether you happen to be white, black, or purple. I don't like the idea of putting black racism on a lower tier and saying, "well this just is not as bad because you don't have power." Most racists don't have power. It is usually some shortcoming in their life that pushes them to that thinking.
I'm still not sure i agree. i think of racism as a belief, and not predicated on standing or lack thereof. are you saying like joe the vp and blah blah blah "is a good one" but i can't stand the ones rioting blah blah blah
I know . . . JDB wants to focus solely on the element of that class who are Black . . .
There absolutely are. That is part of my argument that life decisions and economics play more into the ills of a community than bigotry against them does. I think something around 30% of white children are born to single mothers where Dad is not around. And they tend to struggle every bit as bad with the same types of social issues that similarly situated black people do.
Fixing families is the #1 way to lift mothers and children out of poverty.
Which is the cause and which is the effect? The ability to plan ahead and think of concequences different choices could be an indicia of intelligence and higher brain functioning. No doubt being poor has its side effects. Is one of those making smart people dumber?
i'm trying to follow marv. i've always thought of racism as a belief and not having anything to do with standing in a community or power etc. but i think i might follow what he's saying when you think about the common things we've all heard growing up (or at least everyone where i live has heard) about black people: differentiating your feelings about them based on how they act how they behave and what their standing is. joe black guy went to a private school and now is an executive "he's a good one," versus "thugs" etc. i think marv is getting at the racism that attends differentiating a group of people on their standing and how much they have or haven't assimilated to whites.
But those poor decisions are being made disproportionately based on culture.
KIDS COUNT Data Center from the Annie E. Casey Foundation
Explore the KIDS COUNT Data Center for free statistical data about economics, education and health sorted by race, sex and age in our national data center.
Here is one study, https://institutions.newscientist.c...rty-can-sap-peoples-ability-to-think-clearly/. They took sugarcane farmers in India and gave them a test immediately before harvest. Because harvest is once per year, this is when they were at their poorest. They gave them tests after harvest, when they have the most money they will have all year. The average was a 13 IQ point difference.
There is this study on poverty and longterm vs short-term thinking https://phys.org/news/2012-11-poverty-people-focus-short-term.html.
We both have read books on the brain. I personally suspect it is evolutionary. A person who is hungry had to be able to focus on their immediate needs. A person being chased by a lion had to focus on their immediate needs. The brain reroutes longterm planning to short-term planning to handle crisis, and this switch is controlled by stress. Stress frequently leads to bad decisions, which is why the military, NASA, police all train hard in stressful situations. But the average person lacks that in their daily lives. So immediate gratification shoots way up the list among most people undergoing stress from poverty.
Exactly. I was struck by the images of white young women and black males wearing BLM shirts shouting despicable racist taunts at black cops and saying they aren't black. There is very much more to racism than race.
Anti-racism has evolved into a political message, not a message about tolerance and acceptance of different looking people.
sope saying joe the vp i didn't mean biden. ugh. dumb choice. i met random black who becomes a vice president of a company
I don't think there is any doubt that our thinking ability is highly situational. Our bodies respond with different kinds of chemical surges in response to different stimuli. That affects our minds.
Here is some information that I believe relates to the issue, how Habitat for Humanity has helped:
Of the respondents who noticed a change in their children’s study habits, 90 percent felt the change was positive. Seventy-four percent of respondents feel confident about funding their children’s college education, with three in five saying their level of confidence has increased since moving into their Habitat home.
But it’s not only the kids who benefit. Forty-three percent of respondents have started or completed higher education or training programs since becoming a Habitat homeowner, and 58 percent indicated that other adults living with them started or completed an educational or training program since moving as well.
Surprising Statistics on Habitat for Humanity Homeowners in Georgia
A recent survey uncovers the wide-ranging power of home ownership in the state of Georgia
www.athenshabitat.com
Now that is homeownership, which is different, but home insecurity is a major impact of poverty. At least part of the response above is due to people not worried about losing their home or apartment at the beginning of the next month.
Yes!!!Here is some information that I believe relates to the issue, how Habitat for Humanity has helped:
Of the respondents who noticed a change in their children’s study habits, 90 percent felt the change was positive. Seventy-four percent of respondents feel confident about funding their children’s college education, with three in five saying their level of confidence has increased since moving into their Habitat home.But it’s not only the kids who benefit. Forty-three percent of respondents have started or completed higher education or training programs since becoming a Habitat homeowner, and 58 percent indicated that other adults living with them started or completed an educational or training program since moving as well.
Surprising Statistics on Habitat for Humanity Homeowners in Georgia
A recent survey uncovers the wide-ranging power of home ownership in the state of Georgiawww.athenshabitat.com
Now that is homeownership, which is different, but home insecurity is a major impact of poverty. At least part of the response above is due to people not worried about losing their home or apartment at the beginning of the next month.
because they are disproportionately affected by culture. See the link in response to Marvin. if it were true that family issues and poor choices were the result of poverty, Latinos would be facing the same problems to a similar degree. But they aren’t.
stop making excuses for a cultural problem
I think yours is an important reminder that we can't compartmentalize and omit the unique, historical Black experience from any meaningful conversation on race in America.
The facts are clear. Nobody is willing to address the broken culture and therefore, nothing will change. At least in your lifetime, that's for sure.
Why not can't we exclude the historical black experience? Blaming each other for things that happened before anybody today was alive, and in some cases 100's of years ago, is probably the single biggest reason we can't solve today's problems. I heard one BLM marcher explain one reason we need to defund or re-imagine police is because police used to apprehend run-away slaves. Sheesh.
This just isn't an American issue. It comes up in scores of world hot-spots, particularly including the Middle East and now Turkey-Greece.
This is why things like the 1619 project are so destructive. None of that pertains to a living person, yet it is used to foment conflict and discord 400 years later.
"Broken culture" is a euphemism for "them people", JDB. Wear it.
Niebuhr did say that every generation has to learn the hard lessons themselves because folks are too stupid to learn from those who've come before them. You're Exhibit A for that proposition.
This is the point I've been trying to make to CO Hoosier . . . plus the observation that some of that historical Black experience has resulted in changes to mainstream society in the US, even to the point of dominance of those changes. Sometimes those changes to mainstream society have caused rancor for some among Blacks, with charges of cultural appropriation and the like resulting from just how mainstream those changes have become.
The notion of Blacks being assimilated into white society in the US is toast . . . it's more of in the direction of an exchange of ideas now . . . which some folks in the white community just can't recognize or accept . . . .
Yet recent black immigrants from Haiti or Africa seem to do better here than native born blacks in terms of jobs, income, and social stability. The reason of course is that the black immigrants are not burdened with "the historical black experience" with its accompanying finger pointing and blaming. The immigrants come to actually seek assimilation rather than avoid it.
I agree with you that we (whites) have a role in black culture because of a history if discrimination. We addressed this in very important ways 60 years ago, yet the problem seems to be worsening. Why? Maybe seeing America as a white culture is the problem. When the Smithsonian claims the scientific method is evidence of "whiteness" and implies it is a negative influence on society, we have a big problem. I think the heart of that problem is believing a culture that has built living standards at or near the top in the world as a "white" culture rather than a universal better culture.
Edited and made better.
As it relates to so many discussing race and political issues, what's most .... disheartening.... is the profound mental laziness (e.g., drawing wildly misplaced comparisons, not bothering to give "opposing" viewpoints even a modicum of examination for understanding, refusing to look for viable information sources, relying on malinformed gut instincts, etc.), the profound disinterest in the suffering of others, and the profound selfishness that expresses itself by, e.g., bemoaning the discomfort suffered from watching words people use on the news and equating that sitting-on-the-couch-with-a-cold-one discomfort to the real world trauma being experienced in the streets of our communities by all too many of our fellow citizens and fellow humans.
Enhhh . . . I referenced Niebuhr - Reinhold, not his brother nor his sister - for the philosophical and psychological import of his observations about people who don't learn from history. You, OTOH, see through only an ideological lens to pronounce a judgment that you think is a "winner" . . .
. . . it just establishes how stupid you really are, JDB. And that's pretty damned stupid.
LOL, from Pew:
MCCLAY: I think his instincts were socialist. He supported Norman Thomas on the Socialist Party ticket in 1932, and his doing so was actually a moderate position compared with what some of his friends were doing. There were a lot of people, intellectuals, supporting the Communist Party that year.
Brittanica:
His early political activities were influenced by his socialist convictions (he was a founder of the Fellowship of Socialist Christians), and he ran for office several times on the Socialist ticket.
I've always known you felt the Bern
Bingo . . . you proved my point again. Man, you are stupid.
[on edit] Regarding your "Bern" comment, it's clear that you can't read either . . . there were a lot of folks who were supporting Bernie through the primaries, but I'm on record here saying that he could never be elected or govern . . . I've supported Biden from day one because I didn't think there was any reason to risk beating Trump . . . .
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I haven't found you to make many anti-Semitic posts, JDB. I'm happy to wait and point it out to you.
You're miscomprehending them then . . . they're calling you "slow".
BTW, I have seen you reference, however obliquely, being "from the tribe" (I think that's how you phrased it) on at least one occasion recently . . . .
Why would you say that the "problem seems to be worsening"? If it is worsening, the reason might be the failure of the predominant white culture to listen to the experiences of Blacks in the US for the last 60 years . . .
. . . I think there's a significant amount of tension around race today, but in some ways I would suggest that the situation is "better", in that (a) we don't have the overt segregation enforced by law any more, (b) Blacks are being more assertive about their negative experiences within the dominant white culture in the US, and (c) we have some recent history of the predominant culture in the US being influenced, even dominated, by Black creativity . . . perhaps necessitated in large part by the overt oppression by the predominant white culture.
FWIW, I think the resolution of all this stuff is a long way off . . . reparations in any form won't resolve the grievances - legitimate or imagined - that Blacks have and won't resolve any white responsibility for the adverse effects that slavery and Jim Crow have had. There is no magic to undo what has been done, no whitewash that will be effective at resolving any of this.
What will occur - speculating here, but I've put some thought into it - will be more in the form of a conversation, a call and response if you will, between different segments (and not just whites and Blacks) within this society so that we can understand and adjust to each other better than we are doing right now. That ain't assimilation of one group by another . . . it's an assimilation of aspects of those groups into a more consistent, and hopefully better (based on the best each has to offer), version of this society. That is generations away . . . and the trend lines will be present and visible in the lives of our ancestors.
Reparations may not resolve grievances but a balancing of the generational head start whites have had to amass and inherit wealth has to be paramount among the issues to address.
