Can someone with more basketball knowledge than me explain this CTC quote?

[IUfanINsandiego]

The basis of success for the Hoosiers' offense has always been simple, according to Crean - make the easy pass, and find the open man. The Hoosiers don't have the personnel to play a complicated style - one that involves "trying to create things that aren't there."
http://www.insidethehall.com/2015/01/29/notebook-offense-defense-lacking-loss-purdue/#more-44524

My question is, what would be considered a "complicated offense." One that requires screens and cutters? One that requires set plays? What is a "complicated offense" in the game of basketball, I'm dying to find out.

Next question is, why do we not have the personnel to run a "complicated" offense?

Finally, does a "complicated offense" mean that your team is "trying to create things that aren't there."? Because back in my playing days, we always tried to create openings for players...openings that "weren't there", I suppose. I had no idea we were running such a complicated offense back in the day. Is that what it used to mean when we played "Indiana Basketball"[/B] and people from all over the United States knew that we played the game of basketball in Indiana and we were damned good at it???

Coaches, die-hards, or basketball aficionados, please fill me in so I can understand CTC a little better. Thank you.



This post was edited on 1/30 7:38 AM by IUfanINsandiego

 

[outlawyer]

The way we've played the last two games, it seems the handoff and weave is a complicated offense, as is trying to make a lay up on a 7 footer waiting near the rim. Also, those off-the-dribble one-handed passes that have a tendency to go awry. I also wonder how "simple" our offense is when we reset with about 20 seconds on the clock left and the point has to redirect players from one side of the court to the other. I am a simple man, so I like simplicity, too, but I cannot decipher those comments. I do think that for a not-so-good ballhandler to drive into a pack of defenders and try to force up a shot is compicated, so maybe that type of offense should be discouraged with pine time? Or, is it just me?

 

[McNutt76]

Did you notice Isiah Thomas basically drove the middle during the second half of the season in 1981? My understanding is he approached Bob Knight halfway through the season and persuaded him to try it. The Hoosiers then progressed from being a good team to a great team that won the NCAA championship.

When I was in high school, our coach ran .what he called "the Pacers' offense". It was the most complicated offense I had ever witnessed and it made many of us robotic as a result. All he wanted the guards to do was stand on the perimeter, pass the ball inside and then cut to the weak side to set a pick for a forward. I forget what we were supposed to do after that.

Occasionally, I would drive the middle during a scrimmage at practice and either hit an open man if his defender tried to pick me up or I would go all the way to the basket for a layup. The coach then would blow his whistle and tell me that I couldn't drive against a zone.

Because of that type of offense, my high school (second largest in the state) wound up losing in the Sectional to Brown County High School. Even though the front line consisted of three players that measured 6-5, 6-7 and 6-8, the Bull Dogs finished last in the South Central Conference in rebounding and they shot very few free throws due to a lack of penetration.

I got cut after six weeks of practice and I still was struggling with the offense at that time. The coach's reasoning was he didn't want a senior on the bench. Ironically, that senior (me) then was approach by a college about playing for it. My understanding is the coach wanted a player who could penetrate by dribbling the basketball. Of course, I turned down the offer because I wanted to go to IU and major in journalism.

 

[The Vid]

Try Legalzoom.com or Carmax for translation*

.

 

[Sope Creek]

Isiah had a move where he'd . . .

be at the top of the key, and he'd take an easy half-step to his right, dribbling with his right hand. The defender would take a half slide step in that direction to close Isiah out from going that way (or foolishly might try for a steal), and Isiah would dribble the ball through his legs straight down the middle of the lane . . . and with his quickness he was past the first level of defense and into the bigs in an instant. He could finish if the basket was clear, or he could dish to Tolbert, Kitchel or Turner when their men would try to cut Isiah off . . . basically it was a fast break in the paint, created out of the half-court offense.

IU used very good spacing at the time, too . . . with outside shooters in Isiah, Wittman and Kitchel that the defense had to respect. So the lane clogging defense we saw last year - without shooters - didn't work.

The problem we have had the last couple of years is that our teams haven't been well-balanced . . . we had a big last year, but our shooters weren't reliable enough . . . this year, we have no bigs who can play with shooters. I'm more worried about this year than last, because this seems to be Crean's preferred/typical style of play. No bigs, no chance over a long season . . . .

 

[IUfanINsandiego]

Well, I don't think running "the Pacer's offense" is going to be a problem for IU. Did you guys run a lot of 3-man weave out at the top of the offense or do those little handoffs over by the sidelines? Because I'm not sure if those are simple or complicated but they don't seem to accomplish too much and then Yogi does that "driving the middle" thing that you were so good at.

Isiah wouldn't have gotten that authority if it wasn't given to him by Bob Knight. And Isiah Thomas was a special case (almost 35 years ago). One of the 50 greatest players of all time and definitely one of the IU greats. I mean, he had 14 assists to open the NCAA run vs. Maryland. He followed that up with 27 points and 8 assists vs. UAB. Only 8 points, but 12 assists vs. St. Joe's. 14 points on only 8 shots with 4 assists vs. a 31-3 LSU team, and then in a championship game in which IU only played 7 players, he, Wittman, and Tolbert each played all 40 minutes as Isiah has 23 and 5 against North Carolina to win it all.

Can you imagine Crean playing three guys for 40 minutes? Now, THAT was coaching.
This post was edited on 1/30 10:06 AM by IUfanINsandiego

 

[iubud]

What I hope he is saying

Stan, Troy, and JBJ, don't drive to the basket against a 7' player or a double team and try a finger roll or a shot you need to be falling down to get off.

Running "set plays" isn't something I would be excited to see. I remember a 4th grader coming to me and saying that when the PG holds up one finger, a screen is coming and he is going to the right. When he holds up 2 fingers, the screen is on his left side and he will go left. If a 4th grader can figure even a simple play out, imagine what a staff of coaches can do in recognizing tendencies in an offense that runs set plays.

 

[IUfanINsandiego]

Re: What I hope he is saying

I was kidding about the set plays. They usually don't work. I do think Crean does a pretty good job drawing things up out of time-outs.

 

[iubhounds]

You're right about his style

You are right about Crean's style. At Marquette he played small with a 6'8 or 6'9 athletic center. He did some full court pressing based on personnel. I think if HMP had not been injured, Crean was quite happy with this roster and not having a big that could play with his back to the basket.

That's not his style.

A team cannot win long term or win it all with no bigs.

I watch other teams that have two in the starting lineup and when get tired or are in foul trouble they pull two more bigs off the bench to replace them. It is obvious that is not Crean's style otherwise we would have 4 players 6-9 or above, that are not projects, on the roster. Instead it is loaded with guards and 6'7's.

 

[Sope Creek]

I was surprised . . .

when Crean was announced as IU's next coach, because it was highly apparent that he didn't have traditional big men in his program, and it was also highly apparent that it hurt the program over the long haul. Oh sure, Marquette could get on a run of playing really well and make fans happy for that run, but I don't recall Marquette ever winning games when they didn't have their best game on the floor. It was feast when small ball worked, and otherwise it was just another Big East program . . . but in the Big 10? . . . *shudder* . . .

. . . Please don't read this as a dump on Crean. The guy has put IU back on track to having a respectable program, and by that I mean that as a program overall, with the academics and quality of kids he's getting . . . for the most part anyway. And the basketball is plausible enough to call IU a competent major D1 program . . .

. . . but that's it. I take our current ceiling with Crean as an indication of just how awful the program must have been under Sampson.

No matter what happens, I think we owe Crean a great deal for cleaning up the program and getting it on solid footing as a good fit for the university setting at IU. But I sure do miss the days of knowing - not hoping, but knowing - that we were going to win every basketball game and being shocked and pissed if we were to suffer the occasional loss.

 

[iubhounds]

great post *

nt