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Bryant Impact...

Who can Swanigan guard without fouling?
if his shot doesn't improve he can guard Troy....or not guard him like they did last year

If I was them, or any opposing team, I'd zone IU. Id make TC show that he can adapt his offense to match up with a zone....so far he hasn't. Bieheim openly mocked him regarding IUs approach to their zone
 
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Well okay. Number one, Bryant. I don't dismiss the difference he will make. He will make a difference, but I don't see nearly the difference you see. The two teams you sure as good defensively, weren't better then this team because they had a legit big. You had better defenders to begin with in those teams. I have seen nobody on your roster play defense as well as Olidopo or Watford or Shehey. You site Yogi and Williams as on a good defensive team so you assume they were better defenders then. That's not true. Williams and Yogi were the weakest defenders on that team and Vonleigh did all the heavy lifting. Once again, Bryant isn't Vonleigh and all you have to do is look at their ratings coming out of high school and their strengths to see that. Your assumption makes it seem like he is that good and he isn't, at least according to the experts you like to quote.
Hammons may not be a world beater as you say, but he is projected to be the best big in a tough conference. He will give Bryant all he can handle and when you add in the fact that we have Haas and Swanigan to bang on him as well, he will have his hands plenty full and will likely not be able to protect the rim like you hope. If you look at Hammons perfeomance at a younger age and without the drive he showed in conference last year, he put up some pretty decent numbers against your two lottery picks and did force both to foul enough to get extra bench time.
Yogi is your strength and I have no issue with that. But to say Purdue has nobody who can stop him is silly. Just look at what the guards did to him last year. Bryant in the middle won't change that. Hammons may get pulled out of the paint at times, but I would assume if Swanigan is on Williams, then he would slide over and let Williams float on the perimeter. So we will still have a rim protector either way. I don't see a change there. IU drives to dish to the open shooter 80% of the time. Knowing this Purdue avoided collapsing on the lane and instead played the passing lanes on the perimeter and forced the driver to the rim protector. I don't see IU switching it's offense much as even Zeller and Vonliegh didn't get many post passes. So I would think the defense will remain the same and deny the open threes and force IU to get two pointers and preferably from your two weak shooters, Williams and Bryant. That's the beauty of playing a team that lives by the three. You only need to stop one thing and you usually win if you are able to slow it down.

You can believe that your defense will skyrocket this year if you like. But there really is no basis for that as the two teams you site were better because you had good defenders on that team, not because you had a legit big. I expect an improvement. But not into the top 100 and whenever Bryant has to sit, I expect to see exactly what IU had last season defensively. I expect Bryant to sit quite a bit on your scenario. If he has to protect the rim because your guys are letting their man drive past them, then once again he will have two choices. Foul the driver or let AJ, Swanigan or the driver score. He may get a couple of blocks. But the odds are as a frosh, he will be called for a good percentage of each block attempt for fouling.
I really don't get how you think he will make that big of a difference. He won't be able to just stand at the rim and try to block shots anyway. He will be forced to switch, hedge away from the basket or to avoid screens as Purdue runs their motion. I assure you he will be isolated and forced to make decisions rapidly and as a frosh, his experience will hurt him here and his athleticism won't be able to save him every time. I fully expect him to have two fouls within the first ten minutes of each half which leaves you right where you were last season.
The fact that you don't have a backup and that you are relying on him to fix the numerous problems with your defense so much leads me to believe you are wrong. It's really that simple.

Just so you know, it has been said by some "experts" that Bryant is better than Vonleh. Just saying. And nobody is talking about J Morgan. I think that kid will be a surprise. OG will also be a good player, but he is more of a wing and may have a little longer dev time.
 
You put so many words into my position that I never said. I never completed AJ to Shaq. I actually said he wasn't a wild beater but is projected to be the best in the B1G this year and as a younger player he was able to get Zeller an Vonleh into foul trouble. Everything else is you trying to spin my position to fit your argument. Ask your experts an get back with me on what they think AJ will do to other centers this year.
I also never said nobody on IU will get better defensively. They can all improve on their own and Bryant may make it even better. My disagreement is with the huge difference you expect to happen just because you add Bryant. It's not gonna happen. You find me one team that improved that much in one year by adding one player, and I will consider it. But it has never happened under Crean and I would guess probably never happened at IU at all and Purdue for that matter. If it has, it's unusual and would make Bryant the best center to ever play at IU. Once again, not likely.

But I get it. You want to act like your opinion is fact and anyone who disagrees is being a homer. It doesn't bother me. I didn't think you actually believed it enough to wager something as valuable as your pride.


IU should be very good. If they hit a high percentage of shots, they can probably beat a lot of good teams. But if they don't, there really is no second strategy and that makes all of those talented players look like underachievers because if they worked as hard at stopping teams as they do outsourcing teams, they could be very dangerous. But as it stands the strategy is just that. Get out on breaks, drive and collapse the defense and pass to one of three shooters at predetermined spots, and crash the glass on these shots to try and get rebounds and put backs.
It's really not that hard to plan against. Force the dribbler to give the ball up, play the passing lanes, don't collapse and force the driver to make a decision with AJ guarding the rim if you get beat on a ball screen. Watch last years games again. When teams collapsed on the driver, you won. When they didn't and made the driver choose to shoot or pass to a guy that maybe guarded, you lost. It's no coincidence most of your losses came after the first loss at Purdue.

Carry on. Seems my work here is done.

"You find me one team that improved that much in one year by adding one player, and I will consider it." - When Crean added Cody Zeller, IU took a HUGE jump that year. We blew away expectations. Just sayin...
 
"You find me one team that improved that much in one year by adding one player, and I will consider it." - When Crean added Cody Zeller, IU took a HUGE jump that year. We blew away expectations. Just sayin...

No reason can't be as good as zeller right out of the box. From what I saw he is that good.
 
"You find me one team that improved that much in one year by adding one player, and I will consider it." - When Crean added Cody Zeller, IU took a HUGE jump that year. We blew away expectations. Just sayin...
Yup. Been saying that since the jump. I'm not calling Bryant the next Zeller, but the impact on the team could be similar. The team with Hulls, Wat and Vic prior to Zeller being there wasn't a good team defensively. Add Zeller into the mix and look what happens. Big shocker there! Having a good big man will improve our defense immediately. He just needs to stay out of foul trouble. But to the PU fans acting like it's not going to help are just flat out dumb. The stats, rankings and results vs expectations all back it up. I highly doubt Bryant is going to piss himself when we play Purdue. In fact, I bet our guys are eager to get payback. I think we'll get it this year too.
 
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Just so you know, it has been said by some "experts" that Bryant is better than Vonleh. Just saying. And nobody is talking about J Morgan. I think that kid will be a surprise. OG will also be a good player, but he is more of a wing and may have a little longer dev time.
Who are those "experts"?
 
Yup. Been saying that since the jump. I'm not calling Bryant the next Zeller, but the impact on the team could be similar. The team with Hulls, Wat and Vic prior to Zeller being there wasn't a good team defensively. Add Zeller into the mix and look what happens. Big shocker there! Having a good big man will improve our defense immediately. He just needs to stay out of foul trouble. But to the PU fans acting like it's not going to help are just flat out dumb. The stats, rankings and results vs expectations all back it up. I highly doubt Bryant is going to piss himself when we play Purdue. In fact, I bet our guys are eager to get payback. I think we'll get it this year too.
This team doesn't have players like Will and Vic defensively....and they aren't a good defensive team but they were awesome compared to last years team
 
This team doesn't have players like Will and Vic defensively....and they aren't a good defensive team but they were awesome compared to last years team
The team prior to Zeller's arrival had Vic, and Will. How else do you describe the jump in adjusted defensive ranking outside of players getting better and adding a big man? Seems unfair to assume that our guys won't get better from last year. Then add in a big man, and well, there you go. Look, I'm not saying it's 100% going to happen. I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me. It's happened before. Last year was our worst defensive year under Crean. It's actually fair to assume we won't be nearly that bad, let alone add in the fact we have a complete roster now with Bryant (Creans fault, I know).
 
To me, when a fan of another school comes here to say his team is better than IU, it would be like me going into your house, sitting at your dinner table, and bragging about how much nicer your house is than mine while I'm eating your food.

Going to the board of another school to brag about IU is just something I have not done and I feel I am unlikely to do in the future.

GO HOOSIERS!
I happen to agree with you about board etiquette. That is why I try my best to avoid these discussions. This one is boiling down to two reasonable arguments that cannot be proven or disproven, and the relative weight you might give each. Not worth disturbing the peace.

:cool:
 
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Hey of course you are going to think you will take the game. It's your team. Just as I think we will because Purdue is my team. Nobody really wants to say this far ahead their team is going to lose. I just don't see 4 teams that will be better than Purdue next year. Fifth would be the absolute lowest and personally a big disappointment. Maryland and maybe MSU will be better, other than that who? IU maybe, but I don't see it. No way Michigan. We played them before all of their injuries last year and stomped them. Iowa loses too much, Wisconsin could contend but still think they lose too much. Ohio St loses too much. Who else?

Have you considered that a tight as the league is going to be, maybe 2 or even 3 teams will tie for 3d?
 
Just checked the updated Vegas odds for winning the NC and it has IU as a 40/1 and Purdue a 45/1.

Still don't get why Michigan is a 35/1...
 
This team doesn't have players like Will and Vic defensively....and they aren't a good defensive team but they were awesome compared to last years team

You are right that we don't have a player like Vic on defense. He was outstanding on the defensive side. But Robert Johnson could come close if he continues to improve. He is very good defensively. I also thought Holt did a great job on defensive side of the ball last year. He was typically guarding guys bigger than he was, and he did a good job without fouling to often. Yogi is no slouch on the defensive side, but he has plenty of room to improve. If Bryan and Morgan can come in and help a good bit with interior defense, we could see another big jump in performance. Disregarding that as a possibility, even a likely one is just being blind.
 
You are right that we don't have a player like Vic on defense. He was outstanding on the defensive side. But Robert Johnson could come close if he continues to improve. He is very good defensively. I also thought Holt did a great job on defensive side of the ball last year. He was typically guarding guys bigger than he was, and he did a good job without fouling to often. Yogi is no slouch on the defensive side, but he has plenty of room to improve. If Bryan and Morgan can come in and help a good bit with interior defense, we could see another big jump in performance. Disregarding that as a possibility, even a likely one is just being blind.
Exactly. Thanks. You said exactly what I've been trying to say, but more clearly. Completely agree.
 
You are right that we don't have a player like Vic on defense. He was outstanding on the defensive side. But Robert Johnson could come close if he continues to improve. He is very good defensively. I also thought Holt did a great job on defensive side of the ball last year. He was typically guarding guys bigger than he was, and he did a good job without fouling to often. Yogi is no slouch on the defensive side, but he has plenty of room to improve. If Bryan and Morgan can come in and help a good bit with interior defense, we could see another big jump in performance. Disregarding that as a possibility, even a likely one is just being blind.
That's a bunch of ifs, and overstatements...you thought much more of Holts defense than I did. You can hope for improvement and I agree young players wil to an extent. But I don't see IU going from 214th to top 50 in one year

the thing is until I see TC make defense a priority I'm not going to count on huge improvements. TC and Beilein are offense first and second type coaches
 
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Dakich said it. And I bet he has seen them more than us.
Ok is Dakich an expert or a disgruntled jealous hack..I can never keep it straight in this board

When did he say Bryant was better than NV? Can you remember what he said?
 
Ok is Dakich an expert or a disgruntled jealous hack..I can never keep it straight in this board

When did he say Bryant was better than NV? Can you remember what he said?

Back in May of this year: "Yeah, I think he's better than Vonleh," Dakich said. "While he was a good player, (Vonleh) wasn't going to win anything for you. This kid (Bryant) has more of a motor, I-can-help-you-win stuff. Thomas Bryant plays hard and can shoot it."
 
That's a bunch of ifs, and overstatements...you thought much more of Holts defense than I did. You can hope for improvement and I agree young players wil to an extent. But I don't see IU going from 214th to top 50 in one year

the thing is until I see TC make defense a priority I'm not going to count on huge improvements. TC and Beilein are offense first and second type coaches
Every prediction made contains IFs. Even yours... And there are no overstatements in this. Just opinion. Show me where I overstated something...
 
Back in May of this year: "Yeah, I think he's better than Vonleh," Dakich said. "While he was a good player, (Vonleh) wasn't going to win anything for you. This kid (Bryant) has more of a motor, I-can-help-you-win stuff. Thomas Bryant plays hard and can shoot it."
Do you have a link for that? How did you recall that verbatim?

on the premie side there is a 2-3 page thread about how DD is a disgruntled hack whose opinion is worthless,....he criticized TC for the budget...but here he is an expert ...say something nice and you know what you're talking about but be critical and you're an idiot. Funny how that works around here
 
Do you have a link for that? How did you recall that verbatim?

on the premie side there is a 2-3 page thread about how DD is a disgruntled hack whose opinion is worthless,....he criticized TC for the budget...but here he is an expert ...say something nice and you know what you're talking about but be critical and you're an idiot. Funny how that works around here


Bryant is the real deal. Watching his tapes its amazing.
 
Do you have a link for that? How did you recall that verbatim?

on the premie side there is a 2-3 page thread about how DD is a disgruntled hack whose opinion is worthless,....he criticized TC for the budget...but here he is an expert ...say something nice and you know what you're talking about but be critical and you're an idiot. Funny how that works around here

Debating whether DD is an "expert" or not is another topic. Can we both agree that he has seen more and probably spent more time analyzing these players and their abilities than either of us? I would say that is the case, at least for me. Plus he probably has more coaching experience than either of us as well. I would say that would qualify him as an expert to some degree. He does make his living doing this stuff... So you trying to be dismissive because some on here have a love/hate relationship with DD is a pretty weak stance.
 
Do you have a link for that? How did you recall that verbatim?

on the premie side there is a 2-3 page thread about how DD is a disgruntled hack whose opinion is worthless,....he criticized TC for the budget...but here he is an expert ...say something nice and you know what you're talking about but be critical and you're an idiot. Funny how that works around here

Oh, BTW - I have an eidetic memory. That is how I remembered... Just kidding, I recalled the article by Doyle and found it interesting at the time because there were arguments at that time regarding Vonleh and Bryant and the impact they could have (or something to that nature)http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...l-great-iu-expectations-media-crean/70942848/
 
You are right that we don't have a player like Vic on defense. He was outstanding on the defensive side. But Robert Johnson could come close if he continues to improve. He is very good defensively. I also thought Holt did a great job on defensive side of the ball last year. He was typically guarding guys bigger than he was, and he did a good job without fouling to often. Yogi is no slouch on the defensive side, but he has plenty of room to improve. If Bryan and Morgan can come in and help a good bit with interior defense, we could see another big jump in performance. Disregarding that as a possibility, even a likely one is just being blind.

Crean teams at IU have had an avg rank of more than 100. throw out first two years and still north of 75. i'd say were are just as likely to rank 75 as 25 this year. even at 75 we'll win plenty of games but will not go deep in conference tourney or NCAAs. hope you are right, but it's certainly not a done deal. def not a likely one. why would you think so? our best post guy is a frosh. troy and james had no interest in even looking to see where their man wandered off to last year. what team were you watching?
 
Debating whether DD is an "expert" or not is another topic. Can we both agree that he has seen more and probably spent more time analyzing these players and their abilities than either of us? I would say that is the case, at least for me. Plus he probably has more coaching experience than either of us as well. I would say that would qualify him as an expert to some degree. He does make his living doing this stuff... So you trying to be dismissive because some on here have a love/hate relationship with DD is a pretty weak stance.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree on both DD and on TB . . . It seems to me (and I may be wrong) that this thread may be started down a road that is not going to lead to anywhere we all want to be.
 
Debating whether DD is an "expert" or not is another topic. Can we both agree that he has seen more and probably spent more time analyzing these players and their abilities than either of us? I would say that is the case, at least for me. Plus he probably has more coaching experience than either of us as well. I would say that would qualify him as an expert to some degree. He does make his living doing this stuff... So you trying to be dismissive because some on here have a love/hate relationship with DD is a pretty weak stance.
No I was stating that it was funny that his level of expertise was directly related to if he was being nice to TC or not....it was an observation.

I consider him an expert, but I take what he says on the radio with a grain of salt...he will say things just to stir up trouble. Good ratings
 
Maybe we should just agree to disagree on both DD and on TB . . . It seems to me (and I may be wrong) that this thread may be started down a road that is not going to lead to anywhere we all want to be.
Or you can skip the thread if you don't like it?
 
You want to look at our record against the top 3 teams, yet IU only had one win against those teams and had 3 extras opportunities to win another.
Then you want to count only the last ten games. Awesome, let's look at IU those last ten games. In both categories you chose, you lose.
Sure IU could be good this year. I don't see them improving because they will still have the same weaknesses and a thinner bench. Your only shot at beating good teams is to shoot lights out from deep. The Bryant factor of protecting the rim with the facts we know about your teams defensive prowess is funny. You may be able to pull that off in the OC. But once the B1G begins, he will be guarding bigger stronger players with coaches who have scouted his weaknesses. Faster guards and better shooters who will look to break down their man and force Bryant to make a decision. With no backup, he will have the really be special to not give up foils or points. Once he is in foul trouble, your right back to Hartman guarding Hammons. You have one guard to back up your three shooters and want to play faster and use the dribble drive every paossesion. Even without foul trouble, your guys are gonna need a rest if they are going to play better defense.

Sure the point is a question mark for Purdue. But there are three guys in the roster who are strictly point guards. One a senior and a sophomore and frosh. Options like that along with a couple other guys who are able to handle the all well enough that it shouldn't be an issue. There aren't a lot of lock down point guards in the league. IU is probably one of the weakest in this area.
Purdue also has enough guys who can shoot well enough on the perimeter that you won't be able to pack it in for long. Between Stephens, Marhias, Davis and Edwards, you're going to have to choose your poison and hope one or two of them don't get hot.

I would give IU the edge in shooting over Purdue but that's about it. The defense isn't even close. The list play won't be close. You had better hope you hit a good clip because you won't get many rebounds. The team play also isn't very close. IU would win in horse. But Purdue wins in a real game and I expect it to happen again this year.

Purdue was better last year. You added a legit big who can protect the rim. I think you are over simplifying the process Bryant will have to complete to give IU the change you are predicting. He may make you better defensively. But he takes a shooter off the floor and when added to Williams, that's two weak spots teams will exploit when defending you. On defense, he will need to let some plays go to stay out of foul trouble. Good players like Hammons and Biiggie along with Haas as a backup, will make his night on the floor short lived and once again remove your big difference from last year and bring back memories of Yogi guarding the post.

This is why Purdue is flexible this year. Shut down AJ, Swanigan will probably get good looks or if not, bring in Haas. Stephens has an off night, bring on Mathias. Need a quicker 4 to guard Willliams, move Edwards to the four and go small. Hill gets in foul trouble, bring PJ off the bench or let another guard bring the ball up.
This is why I see IU having issues.
Bryant has an off night or gets in foul trouble, Holt has a long night. One of your guards needs to sit or has an off night, one returning backup to cover three slots. Good chance you have to run only two deep threats at a time for extended periods. That removes your one advantage and best chance at beating the good teams in the league.

I do give you credit for at least trying your own opinion. Even if it was to judge Purdue in areas that rhey were better then IU in.
Another GEM from @proudopete. Yeesh.
 
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