Book banning that suspiciously looks like what all the snowflakes are worried about
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
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Yikes. I do recall a paddle with holes drilled in it to cut down on wind resistance.
A long time ago, paddles with holes in them were allowed for corporal punishment in Indiana grade schools.
Where did I say SF would ban a book. If a school board can say, "we do not allow x to be taught", it can say, "we will require y to be taught". Where is there a logical fallacy in that?
I see a comic book store in tht country will now give Maus free to any student that wants a copy. I find the store owner's quote about not being sure the county has ever had a Jewish resident as interesting.
I agree art can go too far in being offensive, especially to be taught at a school. And as offensive as I might find Atlas Shrugged, if it were smaller than the million pages it is, I think it should be taught even if Ayn Rand was the antichrist. Maybe they can do a graphic comic of it.
Most people are only exposed to literature in school. I posted the poll, 40% of Americans admit to never reading. A recent president bragged about never reading.
And to reiterate, I have criticized liberal districts for not teaching Finn/Mockingbird over a word (I still believe banning a teacher from using a text is a ban but we disagree). A very offensive word in Finn/Mockingbird to be sure. But a VERY small number will ever read either outside of school. You said you never read Finn in school, have you read it since? Mockingbird? Maus? I read Finn in school, Mockingbird when my oldest read it in high school, Maus shortly after it came out (and honestly only volume 1).
But the board has the right to decide. They have. Maus is offensive. The weakness with school boards is few people care, so a small organized group has outsized influence. We have no idea what the community at large thinks, we will know more based on the number of free copies handed out.
Uh, @mcmurtry66 and his soccer buddies were so manly, they had eightskins.
I guess the issue boils down to what do we believe to be great literature for a typical 13 or 14 year-old. I agree that a particular offensive word should not be a disqualification of an otherwise suitable book. Judging from this thread, and the reaction to my views, great literature would be those writings that explain the significance of historical events. I don’t disagree, but I think there is much more to it. In this case, there fact of the Holocaust dominates the work so that other important reasons for studying lit have no chance. With Sawyer or Mockingbird the offensive words don’t dominate. Sadly, though, we are being conditioned to having issues of race dominate everything and it overwhelms good lit, like Sawyer and Mockingbird.
The bigger problem will come when a school says a kid can’t bring his own copy to read during study hall.
The fringe of both left and right want them some mind control.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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In situations like this, I think the school board should communicate with parents. Tell them what they are doing and why and alert them that there is literary value in the material, that the parent might want their child to read it, but it will no longer be covered in class.Where did I say SF would ban a book. If a school board can say, "we do not allow x to be taught", it can say, "we will require y to be taught". Where is there a logical fallacy in that?
I see a comic book store in tht country will now give Maus free to any student that wants a copy. I find the store owner's quote about not being sure the county has ever had a Jewish resident as interesting.
I agree art can go too far in being offensive, especially to be taught at a school. And as offensive as I might find Atlas Shrugged, if it were smaller than the million pages it is, I think it should be taught even if Ayn Rand was the antichrist. Maybe they can do a graphic comic of it.
Most people are only exposed to literature in school. I posted the poll, 40% of Americans admit to never reading. A recent president bragged about never reading.
And to reiterate, I have criticized liberal districts for not teaching Finn/Mockingbird over a word (I still believe banning a teacher from using a text is a ban but we disagree). A very offensive word in Finn/Mockingbird to be sure. But a VERY small number will ever read either outside of school. You said you never read Finn in school, have you read it since? Mockingbird? Maus? I read Finn in school, Mockingbird when my oldest read it in high school, Maus shortly after it came out (and honestly only volume 1).
But the board has the right to decide. They have. Maus is offensive. The weakness with school boards is few people care, so a small organized group has outsized influence. We have no idea what the community at large thinks, we will know more based on the number of free copies handed out.
I’d take a pass on Atlas Shrugged in a literature class. It’s kinda garbage from that perspective.
You don’t need a vote to know what the community thinks. There’s different forms of CRT. Most folks have no problem with most of it.
No, not really. But the large majority have zero qualifications to make those decisions. There’s a reason teachers have six plus years of schooling. It’s also part of the reason teachers have been forced occasionally buy into the latest fad teaching …. Ex: New Math.
How long ago? Where? In response to Danc not you. So parents want to choose curriculum because they don’t trust teachers but you’d want them paddling your child? That would sure fly these days. Teacher would be sued in an hour.
The most intelligent highly qualified high school graduates mostly don’t go into teaching. Until the pay changes that won’t change. The best teachers ignore the pay issues and go into teaching because it’s their passion. It’s not hard to identify them in local grade schools and high schools. Unfortunately many teachers are average to poor. They are easy to identify in local schools.
Zeke I don't say this to you to offend, and if you take offense I don't mean it in that spirit, because I'm sure you are an excellent teacher. And I know you are a very caring person. But I read your many posts on racial and social issues last summer. I wouldn't want you within a million miles of my kids teaching CRT or any derivation thereof. Your beliefs on those issues are antithetical to mine. What "qualifications" would a grade school/high school teacher have to teach these issues? And again I don't mean to offend but what's to prevent the teacher's (administrators') ideology from being baked into the cake
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Exactly. Here’s what happens.
NYC public school asks parents to ‘reflect’ on their ‘whiteness’
A city public school principal is asking parents to “reflect” on their “whiteness” — passing out literature that extols “white traitors’’ who “dismantle institutions,&…
nypost.com
I don't see how those issues "get taught" without interjecting personal beliefs etc.Exactly. Here’s what happens.
NYC public school asks parents to ‘reflect’ on their ‘whiteness’
A city public school principal is asking parents to “reflect” on their “whiteness” — passing out literature that extols “white traitors’’ who “dismantle institutions,&…
The holes are for show. No difference in effect between the two. Trust me on this.
I don't think it's as much about the pay as it is not wanting to put up with all the bullshit from all sides.
I also grew up in southern Indiana and I learned much about the holocaust and evolution. Maybe you didn’t pay attention in school.
I also grew up in southern Indiana and I learned much about the holocaust and evolution. Maybe you didn’t pay attention in school.
My experience mirrors Shooter's. Your town must not have been dominated by Southern Baptists.
Good teachers are grossly underpaid in my opinion. I’ve never understood teachers fighting being paid based on performance. Their argument to me is mostly they don’t trust administrators to apply it fairly.
That's part of the bullshit. Bullshit tests, bullshit evaluations by people not in the classroom, on top of all the other crap they have to put up with from parents and the larger community and the brats themselves. Then there's all the theory crap they're forced to swallow in the schools of education, rather than getting mentored in the field. They get their first job and are thrown to the wolves.
Sure, they ought to be paid better, but I don't think that's the primary reason a lot more high level people don't get into teaching.
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I understand but at least in the communities I’ve lived in it seems everyone knows who the good teachers are. They also know the bad ones.
I am not talking about what I agree are bullshit tests. Most all of us in our lives are evaluated by our superiors who determine our pay raises.
Most employees are judged by the number of widgets they produce for their employers. So, if production is the only true measure, are good teachers those who produce the most students who can regurgitate the most knowledge? Those that get the best jobs/best college offers? Those that exhibit the most virtuous character? Those that can think for themselves...then how do you measure that?
But WE thought it did! That's all that matters.
Just seeing that board hung up was a strong incentive to behave.
I only saw 2 kids get it. One whack each, and both were in front of the class. Scared the shit out of us.
By the way, I'm not a proponent of corporal punishment - discipline should be the parents' job. If they cause problems in the classroom, they need to be gone.
I would definitely have been a teacher if the pay was even close to being decent. My mom was a teacher and got paid peanuts for teaching classes of 35 kids, and they didn't have 'teachers aids' back then.
And thousands of students and their parents exhale a huge sigh of relief for the crisis averted.
Why? We effectively evaluate performance in nearly every other occupation, including college instructors. Why can’t we do the same with K-12 teachers?
I didn't say it was impossible...just hard.
The tools I hear about so far are somewhat ineffective.
ImI’m the kind of teacher that everyone requested to be in my class. I had families where I’d have all four of the children. And the large majority of parents had zero idea of my politics. In elementary school? CRT has nothing to do with what we do. And I’m pretty glad I didn’t have your children. You’re the type of parent we’d all complain about trying to interpret celebrating MLK Day as teaching CRT.
Ps I didn’t post anything last summer. PSS. My racial views come from teaching in an urban school, from having a boyfriend of color for ten years and still being close, and from having many friends of color. I mostly relay where I hear from them. And then I sit back and laugh at all the white guys telling me how wrong I am. Even let a couple of my friends read the threads to laugh with me.
