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Blaming the FBI

toastedbread

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Oct 25, 2006
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick and tired of politicians/public blaming the intelligence agencies everytime something goes wrong. Rick Scott the latest example:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...lls-fbi-chief-resign-missed-shooter-warnings/

It's absolutely absurd. Our intelligence agencies are doing a phenomenal job of preventing attacks. They do not get the credit they deserve. We do not hear about the dozens of plots prevented. 100% success is impossible. Resources are limited. We cannot afford 24-hour monitoring of tens of thousands of individuals. Intelligence agency bashing is tiresome.
 
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick and tired of politicians/public blaming the intelligence agencies everytime something goes wrong. Rick Scott the latest example:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...lls-fbi-chief-resign-missed-shooter-warnings/

It's absolutely absurd. Our intelligence agencies are doing a phenomenal job of preventing attacks. They do not get the credit they deserve. We do not hear about the dozens of plots prevented. 100% success is impossible. Resources are limited. We cannot afford 24-hour monitoring of tens of thousands of individuals. Intelligence agency bashing is tiresome.

“Politicians” is a bit too broad. It’s republicans and we all know it. Well, not all republicans. Just enough of them to keep electing these types of people to office. Nope, not all of them.
 
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick and tired of politicians/public blaming the intelligence agencies every time something goes wrong. Rick Scott the latest example:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...lls-fbi-chief-resign-missed-shooter-warnings/

It's absolutely absurd. Our intelligence agencies are doing a phenomenal job of preventing attacks. They do not get the credit they deserve. We do not hear about the dozens of plots prevented. 100% success is impossible. Resources are limited. We cannot afford 24-hour monitoring of tens of thousands of individuals. Intelligence agency bashing is tiresome.

We have many processes and procedures in place.

We have preached "if you see something, say something." I read the the FBI gets 1,000+/- tips per day about gun nut threats. They have to prioritize. There are thousands if not millions of people who meet the profile of a school shooter or theater shooter. How do we choose which ones to seek mental health holds on? That said, this kid was conspicuous even among that group. I think somebody dropped the ball.

We have processes in place to keep guns out of the hand of certain kinds of people. Yet the military didn't follow those processes and we had a mass murder event in Texas.

We have international cooperation in tracking terrorism. Including with those despicable Russians. The Russians warned us of two terrorists. Our intelligence apparatus failed to follow up. We had bombings at the Boston Marathon.

We have processes in place to track radicalization of individuals. An army officer was noticed in that regard. We did nothing because we were afraid to be accused of Islamaphobia. As a result dozens were shot and killed and dozens more wounded at Fort Hood.

So you kinda have a point and kinda don't. Maybe some of the FBI criticism is politically motivated. But on the other hand, this kid was definitely on the radar. A good first lesson to take from this shooting is to examine where and how the ball was dropped.
 
We have many processes and procedures in place.

We have preached "if you see something, say something." I read the the FBI gets 1,000+/- tips per day about gun nut threats. They have to prioritize. There are thousands if not millions of people who meet the profile of a school shooter or theater shooter. How do we choose which ones to seek mental health holds on? That said, this kid was conspicuous even among that group. I think somebody dropped the ball.

We have processes in place to keep guns out of the hand of certain kinds of people. Yet the military didn't follow those processes and we had a mass murder event in Texas.

We have international cooperation in tracking terrorism. Including with those despicable Russians. The Russians warned us of two terrorists. Our intelligence apparatus failed to follow up. We had bombings at the Boston Marathon.

We have processes in place to track radicalization of individuals. An army officer was noticed in that regard. We did nothing because we were afraid to be accused of Islamaphobia. As a result dozens were shot and killed and dozens more wounded at Fort Hood.

So you kinda have a point and kinda don't. Maybe some of the FBI criticism is politically motivated. But on the other hand, this kid was definitely on the radar. A good first lesson to take from this shooting is to examine where and how the ball was dropped.
Local law enforcement has been called to the kid's house 19 times. NINETEEN! Start looking there. Somebody should have been having a closer look about the 3rd time at least. If that house was on my district and I got many of those runs (different shifts and days off), someone would have been placed in a location from which he would have had some serious 'splainin' to do.
.
 
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Local law enforcement has been called to the kid's house 19 times. NINETEEN! Start looking there. Somebody should have been having a closer look about the 3rd time at least. If that house was on my district and I got many of those runs (different shifts and days off), someone would have been placed in a location from which he would have had some serious 'splainin' to do.
.

Yet he could still buy an AR15 and as much ammo as he wanted.
 
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick and tired of politicians/public blaming the intelligence agencies everytime something goes wrong. Rick Scott the latest example:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...lls-fbi-chief-resign-missed-shooter-warnings/

It's absolutely absurd. Our intelligence agencies are doing a phenomenal job of preventing attacks. They do not get the credit they deserve. We do not hear about the dozens of plots prevented. 100% success is impossible. Resources are limited. We cannot afford 24-hour monitoring of tens of thousands of individuals. Intelligence agency bashing is tiresome.
I defended the CIA, NSA, FBI and the military from repeated unfair criticism throughout the GWB administration. I defend them now too. Critics have changed, I haven’t.
 
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Yet he could still buy an AR15 and as much ammo as he wanted.
No charges were brought as a result of those 19 police runs to his house - for whatever reasons unknown to us. The data base used to screen for weapons sales involves convictions, not police curiosity. You could be crazy as an outhouse rat and buy legally IF you haven't been adjudicated on record as mentally unfit. Yet, have you ever seen anyone advocating that the data base include diagnosis and treatment details from a mental health professional? Anyone here think such a provision could ever be enacted into law?
 
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No charges were brought as a result of those 19 police runs to his house - for whatever reasons unknown to us. The data base used to screen for weapons sales involves convictions, not police curiosity. You could be crazy as an outhouse rat and buy legally IF you haven't been adjudicated on record as mentally unfit. Yet, have you ever seen anyone advocating that the data base include diagnosis and treatment details from a mental health professional? Anyone here think such a provision could ever be enacted into law?

And because of the bill Trump signed, you can be adjudicated crazy and the data stored in Social Security Administration's records and own a gun because SSA is prohibited from sharing said data.
 
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See, now you’re getting into Florida law and Florida is run by republicans. Please, focus on the inept FBI and other law enforcement.
http://enr.electionsfl.org/BRO/1642/Summary/

Have a look at the election results in this link. Its Broward County local law enforcement - Democrat elected Sheriff - that handles those matters. You can hardly find republicans there. Hillary won 2:1, they elect Alcee Hastings - the former federal judge who was impeached and removed then elected to Congress by the Dems of Broward. Wasserman Shultz wins Broward. Florida may be Republican, but Broward County is about as Democratic as it gets.

As long as your throwing blame around, try a bit of homework and honesty. You might want to edit your post since its totally wrong?
 
And because of the bill Trump signed, you can be adjudicated crazy and the data stored in Social Security Administration's records and own a gun because SSA is prohibited from sharing said data.
You make my point. The American people are not about to stand for making their mental health records public unless they are part of a criminal matter.
 
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick and tired of politicians/public blaming the intelligence agencies everytime something goes wrong. Rick Scott the latest example:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...lls-fbi-chief-resign-missed-shooter-warnings/

It's absolutely absurd. Our intelligence agencies are doing a phenomenal job of preventing attacks. They do not get the credit they deserve. We do not hear about the dozens of plots prevented. 100% success is impossible. Resources are limited. We cannot afford 24-hour monitoring of tens of thousands of individuals. Intelligence agency bashing is tiresome.
Clearly our intelligence and law enforcement agencies are infiltrated with Democrats and are undermining the greatest prez of all time . Pls pay attn to his lordships tweets. Nuance must not b your strong suit, dws
 
And because of the bill Trump signed, you can be adjudicated crazy and the data stored in Social Security Administration's records and own a gun because SSA is prohibited from sharing said data.

That is not the bill Trump signed. “Crazy” nor mental illness were part of the SS criteria involved.
 
And because of the bill Trump signed, you can be adjudicated crazy and the data stored in Social Security Administration's records and own a gun because SSA is prohibited from sharing said data.
Are you talking about the previous administration who did not define what crazy actually means? If a person can't pay their bills then they would be prevented from buying a gun. People who can't pay their bills are not clinically insane.
 
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http://enr.electionsfl.org/BRO/1642/Summary/

Have a look at the election results in this link. Its Broward County local law enforcement - Democrat elected Sheriff - that handles those matters. You can hardly find republicans there. Hillary won 2:1, they elect Alcee Hastings - the former federal judge who was impeached and removed then elected to Congress by the Dems of Broward. Wasserman Shultz wins Broward. Florida may be Republican, but Broward County is about as Democratic as it gets.

As long as your throwing blame around, try a bit of homework and honesty. You might want to edit your post since its totally wrong?

The Sheriff passes state gun laws? Damn, I didn’t know that.
 
Are you talking about the previous administration who did not define what crazy actually means? If a person can't pay their bills then they would be prevented from buying a gun. People who can't pay their bills are not clinically insane.

Where do you come up with this bullshit?
 
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html

If you read the last few paragraphs you'll understand why Floridas governor was outraged... Plenty of people dropped the ball in regard to this guy but the FBI basically threw ithe ball in the air and dropped it... They couldn't figure out who made that post after he had used his real name!?! Then they don't bother to follow up on a "threat to life" tip?!?!

Any objective assessment would say that the FBI did much less then what most citizens would expect from them in this case...
 
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html

If you read the last few paragraphs you'll understand why Floridas governor was outraged... Plenty of people dropped the ball in regard to this guy but the FBI basically threw ithe ball in the air and dropped it... They couldn't figure out who made that post after he had used his real name!?! Then they don't bother to follow up on a "threat to life" tip?!?!

Any objective assessment would say that the FBI did much less then what most citizens would expect from them in this case...

They should have contacted the FBI’s pre-crime division and locked this guy up!!!!
 
Are you talking about the previous administration who did not define what crazy actually means? If a person can't pay their bills then they would be prevented from buying a gun. People who can't pay their bills are not clinically insane.
If they can't pay their bills, how are they buying a gun? Just curious...
 
You are beyond stupid.
https://www.motherjones.com/politic...es-mental-health-issues-for-florida-shooting/
The article eludes to what I am talking about. The problem is the article doesn't mention what the problem was with Obama's regulation. They did not articulate justly on what crazy meant. Therefore people who are not crazy are hindered from carrying out their 2nd amendment rights. Here are some articles pointing these things out.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/15/no-trump-did-not-make-it-easier-for-ment
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...lock-gun-sales-to-certain-mentally-ill-people
 
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The Sheriff passes state gun laws? Damn, I didn’t know that.
No, the sheriff who is responsible for law enforcement in Broward County is the top law enforcement officer and it is member of his department who answered those 19 runs to the kids house and he, along with the entire rest of the county amount to all local enforcement and administration. If you don't understand the conversation maybe a seat on the bench is your best possible vantage point.
 
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No, they should have followed up on the tip, interviewed the guy and alerted the school, neither of which happened.

Ok, so, gun laws that outright ban assault rifles won’t prevent these types of mass shootings, but telling a school “hey, this one dude you kicked out might show up one day with a gun, so be ready. we don’t know what day it will be or if he will call ahead of time, just be ready” will?
 
No, the sheriff who is responsible for law enforcement in Broward County is the top law enforcement officer and it is member of his department who answered those 19 runs to the kids house and he, along with the entire rest of the county amount to all local enforcement and administration. If you don't understand the conversation maybe a seat on the bench is your best possible vantage point.

So you know what all those calls were regarding?

Oh, and why was that kid allowed to legally purchase an AR-15? I forgot.
 
That is not the bill Trump signed. “Crazy” nor mental illness were part of the SS criteria involved.

The criteria I see is "receiving certin social security benefits for mental illness". There as an appeal process. If the goal is to prevent mentally ill fro owning a gun ... .
 
Ok, so, gun laws that outright ban assault rifles won’t prevent these types of mass shootings, but telling a school “hey, this one dude you kicked out might show up one day with a gun, so be ready. we don’t know what day it will be or if he will call ahead of time, just be ready” will?

I'm fairly certain the school administrators would like to have known (in advance) that the FBI had interviewed the guy and did consider him a credible threat. At that point it would have been up to them to decide whether they would upgrade their security or not...

That interview never happened. That notification never happened.
 
The criteria I see is "receiving certin social security benefits for mental illness". There as an appeal process. If the goal is to prevent mentally ill fro owning a gun ... .

Do you have a link? My understanding is that it has to do with the recipient having a conservator, which isn't necessarily mental illness.
 
That is not the bill Trump signed. “Crazy” nor mental illness were part of the SS criteria involved.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/40

"(Current law prohibits firearm sale or transfer to and purchase or possession by a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective.)"


And here is a bill you might be interested in.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s397/text

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2005/10/...passes-new-legal-shield-for-gun-industry.html
 
Do you have a link? My understanding is that it has to do with the recipient having a conservator, which isn't necessarily mental illness.
I got it from snopes. But Factcheck specifies it is people whom SSA has deemed unable to manage tjeir own affairs.

Again, there was an appeal process. Just like there was an appeal process for the do not fly list bill the GOP refused to enact.

Edit - added factcheck link
 
I'm fairly certain the school administrators would like to have known (in advance) that the FBI had interviewed the guy and did consider him a credible threat. At that point it would have been up to them to decide whether they would upgrade their security or not...

That interview never happened. That notification never happened.

Maybe the school would have hired armed guards and put in metal detectors on every door, who knows.

I’ll ask again, why was this 18 year old, not even old enough to buy a beer, able to purchase a semi auto assault rifle?

How many people do you think he might have killed had he only been able to legally purchase a shotgun that could only fire a few times before needing to reload?

How many if he had been relegated to a bolt action rifle?
 
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Maybe the school would have hired armed guards and put in metal detectors on every door, who knows.

I’ll ask again, why was this 18 year old, not even old enough to buy a beer, able to purchase a semi auto assault rifle?

How many people do you think he might have killed had he only been able to legally purchase a shotgun that could only fire a few times before needing to reload?

How many if he had been relegated to a bolt action rifle?
Answer: If he practiced frequently with a bolt action rifle and it was clip feed he probably would have been able to come within three of his KIA total, probably 5 or 6 less with a shotgun but several more wounded.

Are you actually that unfamiliar with firearms?

Now what does your question have to do with the topic of whether or not the FBI shares some blame here?????
 
Answer: If he practiced frequently with a bolt action rifle and it was clip feed he probably would have been able to come within three of his KIA total, probably 5 or 6 less with a shotgun but several more wounded.

Are you actually that unfamiliar with firearms?

Now what does your question have to do with the topic of whether or not the FBI shares some blame here?????

I have not read details of the friend's report, but it was probably specific enough something should have been done. The YouTube video is different, we have no mechanism to do anything based on stupid internet comments. Even if the FBI found him there would be little they could do.
 
Answer: If he practiced frequently with a bolt action rifle and it was clip feed he probably would have been able to come within three of his KIA total, probably 5 or 6 less with a shotgun but several more wounded.

Are you actually that unfamiliar with firearms?

Now what does your question have to do with the topic of whether or not the FBI shares some blame here?????

Answer: Fewer people. Are you that unfamiliar with the English language?

I realize you’re never going to think guns are part of the problem. I ask the questions rhetorically.

Guns have nothing to do with shootings.
Cars have nothing to do with car accidents.
Cigarettes have nothing to do with the secondary effects of smoking.


Now, you tell me what was going to happen after the FBI told the school about the school “maybe, one day, possibly, this dude is gonna show up with a gun”. I’ve asked you once already.
 
Answer: Fewer people. Are you that unfamiliar with the English language?

I realize you’re never going to think guns are part of the problem. I ask the questions rhetorically.

Guns have nothing to do with shootings.
Cars have nothing to do with car accidents.
Cigarettes have nothing to do with the secondary effects of smoking.


Now, you tell me what was going to happen after the FBI told the school about the school “maybe, one day, possibly, this dude is gonna show up with a gun”. I’ve asked you once already.

I'm quite familiar with the language just not your bizarre way of using it. As far as I can tell, based on that last paragraph, nearly everything you type should be considered "rhetorical"...

I hesitate to bother to answer your question above since I'm certain you'll infer that it was simply "rhetorical" but based on what gibberish I've read from you so far you may actually not understand what the school administrators should have done with the information so here's the basics of what most normal folk would do:

They'd alert their entire staff that they had just received a warning from the "FBI" (until recently those initials carried a great deal of weight),

They'd institute a controlled access of school grounds, with a maximum of two ways in and out (preferably one) with armed security at each access point.

They should have immediately hired enough security (off duty police officers is the fastest way to come up with trainined personnel) to have armed security at the egress and access pints, a roving patrol on each floor of the school and a couple more on the grounds if practical.

They would have, or at least should have, alerted their board to have an emergency meeting and have them vote to implement a training and certification program whereas several of their teachers are allowed to concealed carry personal firearms after undergoing rigorous training and background checks (this should have been done all over the country right after the first major school shooting).

This would have taken more time but at least this type of program would have begun and depending on the warning date perhaps a couple of teachers would have had a fighting chance to stop the jerk or at least slow him down by presenting a real threat to him (I'm thinking the football coach who is presented in articles as having once been part of their security staff would be a prime example of who should have had a concealed carry weapon already on their person..)

That's just for starters..., after you receive a warning from the FBI that this guy is considered a "threat to life" in their vernacular...

There are several other things they could have and probably will do "after the fact" to create a harder target and upgrade their security stance...

24/7 camera monitors and an immediate shelter in place warning system comes to mind. Buying police grade Kevlar blankets and shields is another... Adding a couple of simple hardened slide locks at different heights on the interior of the classroom doors is another (so it's harder to gain entrance by simply blowing out the lock set). Having staff "hall monitors" giving a safe to egress signal before sending an entire class out into the hallway...

Now I'm certain you're going to wail and nash your teeth about introducing more firearms into the school environment (with the teacher concealed carry program) but that's one of the only real life short answer on how to confront this type of threat.

Many of the security upgrades you would want to make certain that your students and the surrounding general public were aware of. Often times the simple presentation of a hardened target deters this type of creep.

Firearms are not going away. We can rally and demagogue, and legislate all we want but the simple reality is that a kid (or anyone) can kill you just as dead with a shotgun made in the late 1800's, as with a mil-tec looking semi-auto produced last month. It wouldn't be as efficient but if the individual had done any training with his weapon at all it would still be quite deadly (especially the way that guy staged his ambush: fire alarm = crowded hallways).

As an aside: semi-autos aren't capable of spewing "thousands of rounds" even with a bump stock and anyone who tells you they can quite frankly doesn't know what they're talking about. Even select fire (fully automatic) M-4s aren't capable of that rate of fire over a 90 second time frame.

Without elaborating, we are quite fortunate that the nut case in question wasn't very creative in setting up his ambush or the death toll in a crowded hallway would have been much higher indeed by simply utilizing, legal, over the counter items...(and no I won't explain that, just think homemade fireworks on steroids).

It's a dangerous world we now live in. I don't like it anymore than you do. I just think we should take concrete steps to confront the reality of the threat rather than simply whining about it or attempting to use these tragedies for political leverage.

An official "FBI warning" in this case should have and most likely would have, rapidly kick-started a security upgrade at the school in question and in most cases would have...
 
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I'm quite familiar with the language just not your bizarre way of using it. As far as I can tell, based on that last paragraph, nearly everything you type should be considered "rhetorical"...

I hesitate to bother to answer your question above since I'm certain you'll infer that it was simply "rhetorical" but based on what gibberish I've read from you so far you may actually not understand what the school administrators should have done with the information so here's the basics of what most normal folk would do:

They'd alert their entire staff that they had just received a warning from the "FBI" (until recently those initials carried a great deal of weight),

They'd institute a controlled access of school grounds, with a maximum of two ways in and out (preferably one) with armed security at each access point.

They should have immediately hired enough security (off duty police officers is the fastest way to come up with trainined personnel) to have armed security at the egress and access pints, a roving patrol on each floor of the school and a couple more on the grounds if practical.

They would have, or at least should have, alerted their board to have an emergency meeting and have them vote to implement a training and certification program whereas several of their teachers are allowed to concealed carry personal firearms after undergoing rigorous training and background checks (this should have been done all over the country right after the first major school shooting).

This would have taken more time but at least this type of program would have begun and depending on the warning date perhaps a couple of teachers would have had a fighting chance to stop the jerk or at least slow him down by presenting a real threat to him (I'm thinking the football coach who is presented in articles as having once been part of their security staff would be a prime example of who should have had a concealed carry weapon already on their person..)

That's just for starters..., after you receive a warning from the FBI that this guy is considered a "threat to life" in their vernacular...

There are several other things they could have and probably will do "after the fact" to create a harder target and upgrade their security stance...

24/7 camera monitors and an immediate shelter in place warning system comes to mind. Buying police grade Kevlar blankets and shields is another... Adding a couple of simple hardened slide locks at different heights on the interior of the classroom doors is another (so it's harder to gain entrance by simply blowing out the lock set). Having staff "hall monitors" giving a safe to egress signal before sending an entire class out into the hallway...

Now I'm certain you're going to wail and nash your teeth about introducing more firearms into the school environment (with the teacher concealed carry program) but that's one of the only real life short answer on how to confront this type of threat.

Many of the security upgrades you would want to make certain that your students and the surrounding general public were aware of. Often times the simple presentation of a hardened target deters this type of creep.

Firearms are not going away. We can rally and demagogue, and legislate all we want but the simple reality is that a kid (or anyone) can kill you just as dead with a shotgun made in the late 1800's, as with a mil-tec looking semi-auto produced last month. It wouldn't be as efficient but if the individual had done any training with his weapon at all it would still be quite deadly (especially the way that guy staged his ambush: fire alarm = crowded hallways).

As an aside: semi-autos aren't capable of spewing "thousands of rounds" even with a bump stock and anyone who tells you they can quite frankly doesn't know what they're talking about. Even select fire (fully automatic) M-4s aren't capable of that rate of fire over a 90 second time frame.

Without elaborating, we are quite fortunate that the nut case in question wasn't very creative in setting up his ambush or the death toll in a crowded hallway would have been much higher indeed by simply utilizing, legal, over the counter items...(and no I won't explain that, just think homemade fireworks on steroids).

It's a dangerous world we now live in. I don't like it anymore than you do. I just think we should take concrete steps to confront the reality of the threat rather than simply whining about it or attempting to use these tragedies for political leverage.

An official "FBI warning" in this case should have and most likely would have, rapidly kick-started a security upgrade at the school in question and in most cases would have...

I get it...”more guns make us safer”. You could have saved a whole lot of time. We should be the safest country on earth if your logic were correct. We have the most guns but we don’t even crack the top 25 in the “safest” countries in the world. “Gnashing teeth” and “gibberish”. LMAO!!! I think I struck a nerve.

And you’re sure the school would have done all that?
 
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I get it...”more guns make us safer”. You could have saved a whole lot of time. We should be the safest country on earth if your logic were correct. We have the most guns but we don’t even crack the top 25 in the “safest” countries in the world. “Gnashing teeth” and “gibberish”. LMAO!!! I think I struck a nerve.

And you’re sure the school would have done all that?

I'm not sure they would have done any of it. I am sure they would have considered the liability factor of doing nothing after receiving an official FBI "threat to life" warning.
 
I'm not sure they would have done any of it. I am sure they would have considered the liability factor of doing nothing after receiving an official FBI "threat to life" warning.

I completely agree the school should have been notified. Beyond that, who knows what would have happened. I know what did end up happening and I know what was used. There’s a common theme to these shootings and that’s using versions of weapons that have no place in our everyday society...IMO. And now the song being sang by a certain side regarding “mental health issues” is beyond hilarious. Apparently it’s easier to cure crazy than it is to pass any sensible gun reforms. Sure, mental health is an important aspect, I just find it hilarious that one side is suddenly so concerned about it. Pretty much anything to avoid actually mentioning the gun.
 
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I completely agree the school should have been notified. Beyond that, who knows what would have happened. I know what did end up happening and I know what was used. There’s a common theme to these shootings and that’s using versions of weapons that have no place in our everyday society...IMO. And now the song being sang by a certain side regarding “mental health issues” is beyond hilarious. Apparently it’s easier to cure crazy than it is to pass any sensible gun reforms. Sure, mental health is an important aspect, I just find it hilarious that one side Ian suddenly so concerned about it. Pretty much anything to avoid actually mentioning the gun.

You might be surprised to know that I agree that quote, unquote "assault" rifles never should have been on the market but that genie has been out of the bottle for so long (late 70's?) now that there is literally no getting it back in.

I don't know the accurate numbers but I'm guessing that (depending on what one is calling an "assault rifle" for the purposes of this post I'm calling them AK & M-16/4 knock-offs and/or variations of the same) based on a Congressional report put out in 2012 there were 110 million rifles in civilian hands (I think that's a low number). My guess (and that's all it is) that of that 110 million at least 5 million of those are "assault" rifles.

From those numbers I conclude two things: you not going to get them all back out of private hands and you'd could stop the sale of them tomorrow and it would be the equivalent of having everyone on the east coast spit in the ocean and pretend you've made an attempt to change the salinity of the Atlantic.

Passing a no "assault rifle" law makes for good optics with the base but does little to nothing as far as preventing this type of crime...

If you think I'm defending that type of rifle you're wrong. Don't own one and have never particularly cared for either variation but I don't think a ban this late in the game will amount to anything but a feel good political win and will do little or nothing to stop school shootings.

Real security upgrades, across the board country wide, is the only thing that'll stop copycats at this point...(in my opinion).

FBI alerts would be extremely helpful also (if you could count on them to do their job). They dropped the ball on this one in a big way, in my opinion.
 
Passing a no "assault rifle" law makes for good optics with the base but does little to nothing as far as preventing this type of crime..

Does this not depend on time? If you mean an preventing something tomorrow, no it will not make a difference. If you mean in ten years, it may well. The currently 9 year old future Nikolas Cruz probably does not own a semi automatic rifle. If the 19 year old future Nikolas Cruz elects to go out and buy said weapon illegally there is a chance he gets caught and this stopped.

As to the point elsewhere, yes one can get good at bolt action. But it is harder to get that profecient and overall the gun is not as effective. If they were as effective the military would still be using them.
 
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