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Bowlmania

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Sep 23, 2016
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"What happened in Australia provides a concrete example of how a healthy democracy can confront powerful interests to introduce rational policies that clearly benefit the country. The Australian success story also reminds us what a dismal outlier the United States remains in terms of gun violence and political will even in the face of the most gruesome and abhorrent of all mass shootings: the killings of schoolchildren."

www.newyorker.com

How to Prevent Gun Massacres? Look Around the World

Australia, Britain, Canada, and other countries have enacted reforms that turned mass shootings into rare, aberrational events rather than everyday occurrences.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
 
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dbmhoosier said:
Give up your guns. The government will protect you.

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Footage shows Australian police officer assaulting indigenous teen

An Australian police officer was captured assaulting an indigenous teenager at a police station in New South Wales.Subscribe to our channel for all our lates...
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Okay, but throughout America's history we've seen much more violence than this by our own government.

Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
 
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dbmhoosier said:
Give up your guns. The government will protect you.

View embedded media

youtube.com

Footage shows Australian police officer assaulting indigenous teen

An Australian police officer was captured assaulting an indigenous teenager at a police station in New South Wales.Subscribe to our channel for all our lates...
youtube.com youtube.com
Click to expand...

So, do you think it would have gone better for the indigenous man if he had been armed in the manner that the Uvalde shooter was?

The evidence from such encounters in the U.S. doesn't seem like it would support that idea, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
 
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Bowlmania said:
"What happened in Australia provides a concrete example of how a healthy democracy can confront powerful interests to introduce rational policies that clearly benefit the country. The Australian success story also reminds us what a dismal outlier the United States remains in terms of gun violence and political will even in the face of the most gruesome and abhorrent of all mass shootings: the killings of schoolchildren."

www.newyorker.com

How to Prevent Gun Massacres? Look Around the World

Australia, Britain, Canada, and other countries have enacted reforms that turned mass shootings into rare, aberrational events rather than everyday occurrences.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
Click to expand...
I think you have a chicken and the egg problem. It's no secret that I think weapons like .223 semi-auto rifles should be heavily controlled if not banned. But that doesn't mean I think guns actually cause people to commit mass murder. There is something wrong with us that produces nut jobs. And it isn't just racist hate. The Boulder Colorado shooter is a mentally ill Muslim. The Buffalo shooter is a racist who is likely also mentally ill. The Uvalde shooter is a Hispanic who shot other Hispanics who looks like had mental illness. Then the steady drum beat of shooting deaths in our cities is almost exclusively black on black crime. Guns don't cause this. It's poor families, bad education, drugs, hopelessness and general crappy lives. The rule of law, civic discipline, and consequences for unlawful acts is important to public safety and a well functioning society. We shitcan almost all of that because order and discipline is racist or something.
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
I think you have a chicken and the egg problem. It's no secret that I think weapons like .223 semi-auto rifles should be heavily controlled if not banned. But that doesn't mean I think guns actually cause people to commit mass murder. There is something wrong with us that produces nut jobs. And it isn't just racist hate. The Boulder Colorado shooter is a mentally ill Muslim. The Buffalo shooter is a racist who is likely also mentally ill. The Uvalde shooter is a Hispanic who shot other Hispanics who looks like had mental illness. Then the steady drum beat of shooting deaths in our cities is almost exclusively black on black crime. Guns don't cause this. It's poor families, bad education, drugs, hopelessness and general crappy lives. The rule of law, civic discipline, and consequences for unlawful acts is important to public safety and a well functioning society. We shitcan almost all of that because order and discipline is racist or something.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd rather the nut cases weren't armed. They might still be crazy, but at least they wouldn't be lethal.
 
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hoosboot said:
So, do you think it would have gone better for the indigenous man if he had been armed in the manner that the Uvalde shooter was?

The evidence from such encounters in the U.S. doesn't seem like it would support that idea, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Click to expand...
We know that when Indigenous people protested in Canada, they were treated far more harshly than the truckers in the "freedom caravan". Contrast the way police staged mass arrests of Native Americans thruout 2020 with how they responded to anti-vaxxers and eventually the truckers who basically occupied/disrupted Ottawa for close to a month before the cops (and the right-leaning Ontario provincial govt) decided they'd finally had enough...

 
Lol. There are actually more guns in Australia now than there was before the NFA.

“This doesn’t mean Australians own fewer guns,” he says.

“Government figures show that imports of modern firearms for private owners fluctuate between 65,000 and 116,000 each year. But even after 25 years of importing well over a million new guns since the firearm buybacks, the rate of registered firearms per 100 population has only risen by 1.7 percent.”
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www.sydney.edu.au

New gun ownership figures revealed 25 years on from Port Arthur

www.sydney.edu.au www.sydney.edu.au
 
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Bowlmania said:
"What happened in Australia provides a concrete example of how a healthy democracy can confront powerful interests to introduce rational policies that clearly benefit the country. The Australian success story also reminds us what a dismal outlier the United States remains in terms of gun violence and political will even in the face of the most gruesome and abhorrent of all mass shootings: the killings of schoolchildren."

www.newyorker.com

How to Prevent Gun Massacres? Look Around the World

Australia, Britain, Canada, and other countries have enacted reforms that turned mass shootings into rare, aberrational events rather than everyday occurrences.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
Click to expand...
And despite the handwringing from the Right and agitation from wing nut media like Sky News Australia, the people of Australia just handed Labor a huge victory on May 21... Astonishing that Murdoch owns 65% of Aussie print media, and all of his stations there basically echo the same drumbeat of Fox culture war issues and rail against issues like "trans rights" and "climate control"...

"RUPERT MURDOCH, who oversees a global media empire that includes Fox News, doesn’t like losing, but he just tasted defeat in Australia’s election. Despite years in which Murdoch’s media properties vociferously backed conservative Prime Minister Scott Morrison, Labor leader Anthony Albanese won the May 21 contest. Australia saw a wave of climate-friendly, independent candidates and Greens politicians take power in a thorough rejection of the culture wars around trans rights and “religious freedom” unleashed by Morrison and his backers in the Murdoch media."

theintercept.com

In Australia's Election, Rupert Murdoch Was a Surprise Loser

The Labor Party's victory offers a blueprint for diminishing the global influence of the Fox News founder.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
 
cosmickid said:
We know that when Indigenous people protested in Canada, they were treated far more harshly than the truckers in the "freedom caravan". Contrast the way police staged mass arrests of Native Americans thruout 2020 with how they responded to anti-vaxxers and eventually the truckers who basically occupied/disrupted Ottawa for close to a month before the cops (and the right-leaning Ontario provincial govt) decided they'd finally had enough...

Click to expand...
No, we don’t know that. We know some people said that they THINK that. At least, that’s all that article said.

Cosmic- “ALL THE THINGS ARE RAYCIST!!!!”
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
I think you have a chicken and the egg problem. It's no secret that I think weapons like .223 semi-auto rifles should be heavily controlled if not banned. But that doesn't mean I think guns actually cause people to commit mass murder. There is something wrong with us that produces nut jobs. And it isn't just racist hate. The Boulder Colorado shooter is a mentally ill Muslim. The Buffalo shooter is a racist who is likely also mentally ill. The Uvalde shooter is a Hispanic who shot other Hispanics who looks like had mental illness. Then the steady drum beat of shooting deaths in our cities is almost exclusively black on black crime. Guns don't cause this. It's poor families, bad education, drugs, hopelessness and general crappy lives. The rule of law, civic discipline, and consequences for unlawful acts is important to public safety and a well functioning society. We shitcan almost all of that because order and discipline is racist or something.
Click to expand...
Mental illness is hardly unique to the United States.

As reflected in the article I linked, other countries that have enacted reasonable gun restrictions have seen a dramatic decline in mass shootings.

An 18 year-old kid should not be able to buy a military-style rifle.

Finally, you seem to want to pivot from mass shootings - - where the shooter's sole objective is to kill as many people, usually strangers, as possible - - to urban gun violence, yet they are two separate and distinct phenomena with different demographics and different causes. Restrictions on the purchase of AR-style rifles, for example, are not going to impact someone who shoots his victim with a handgun during a robbery, or gang members and drug dealers who fire at each other and end up killing innocent bystanders in the process. But if a reasonable gun restriction prevents a lonely, loser young male who resents women, and/or is otherwise filled with rage and hate, from shooting up a school and killing a bunch of 10 year-old kids, that's huge.
 
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Bowlmania said:
Mental illness is hardly unique to the United States.

As reflected in the article I linked, other countries that have enacted reasonable gun restrictions have seen a dramatic decline in mass shootings.

An 18 year-old kid should not be able to buy a military-style rifle.

Finally, you seem to want to pivot from mass shootings - - where the shooter's sole objective is to kill as many people, usually strangers, as possible - - to urban gun violence, yet they are two separate and distinct phenomena with different demographics and different causes. Restrictions on the purchase of AR-style rifles, for example, are not going to impact someone who shoots his victim with a handgun during a robbery, or gang members and drug dealers who fire at each other and end up killing innocent bystanders in the process. But if a reasonable gun restriction prevents a lonely, loser young male who resents women, and/or is otherwise filled with rage and hate, from shooting up a school and killing a bunch of 10 year-old kids, that's huge.
Click to expand...
And efforts to try to address one kind of gun violence (with the associated distinct causes) doesn't preclude us from efforts to try to address other kinds as well. Handgun violence and large magazine violence are different phenomenon that likely would benefit from their own conversations, but they are both definitely conversations worth having.
 
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Bowlmania said:
Mental illness is hardly unique to the United States.

As reflected in the article I linked, other countries that have enacted reasonable gun restrictions have seen a dramatic decline in mass shootings.

An 18 year-old kid should not be able to buy a military-style rifle.

Finally, you seem to want to pivot from mass shootings - - where the shooter's sole objective is to kill as many people, usually strangers, as possible - - to urban gun violence, yet they are two separate and distinct phenomena with different demographics and different causes. Restrictions on the purchase of AR-style rifles, for example, are not going to impact someone who shoots his victim with a handgun during a robbery, or gang members and drug dealers who fire at each other and end up killing innocent bystanders in the process. But if a reasonable gun restriction prevents a lonely, loser young male who resents women, and/or is otherwise filled with rage and hate, from shooting up a school and killing a bunch of 10 year-old kids, that's huge.
Click to expand...
Once again, I have no problem with strict controls and or bans on semi-auto high velocity rifles. I said this eleventy-thousand times. you trying to impute opposition of that to me is not an argument. But if you think banning a few guns is a substitute for the callous disregard of human life in this country, you are being disingenuous times 2. The problems you outline are not all that different. Whether it’s the Las Vegas mass murder, a school mass murder, a pissed off minority running down people with a SUV, or kids shooting kids on the streets, we have a sickness in this country that grows out of the same cesspool of bad homes, failed education, drugs, untreated or ineffective mental health care, government encouraged chaos and disorder and more.

I don’t give a rip about other countries. No other country has the constant barrage of hate, discord, and deliberate high-level destruction of its social order as does this one. And for what reason? To get a few more votes? Some more campaign cash? White guilt? What?

I’ll finish this rant by saying Biden’s pathetic remarks the other night about the Uvalde shooting ought to make the entire country vomit.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
No, we don’t know that. We know some people said that they THINK that. At least, that’s all that article said.

Cosmic- “ALL THE THINGS ARE RAYCIST!!!!”
Click to expand...
I linked that article because it provided an analysis, based on factual events. I didn't know I needed to link the actual historical events, but apparently you are unaware of the reality of the numerous arrests of Indigenous protestors in Canada since 2019 involving pipelines being built on tribal lands...If you don't know the history, why the need to comment on a subject you're ignorant of? Are you turning into DANC, where he just makes stuff up and then pretends it's a fact?

Maybe you think the truckers were arrested at any point before the weekend a month or so in when the cops finally moved them out? Pretty sure that didn't happen, since the ongoing complaint from Ottawa residents was the constant blaring of horns, being verbally harassed as they walked in their neighborhoods, and the police doing nothing...

Now whether the reason is racism or not, the fact remains that the RCMP and various police agencies showed a lot less patience dealing with indigenous protestors at various pipeline sites who were opposed to pipelines crossing thru their land. None of those protests were allowed to linger for a month, and there were mass arrests at multiple sites across Canada... This is one example, from 2020

www.theguardian.com

Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Royal Canadian Mounted officers arrested at least six people at a roadblock erected by Indigenous people to block construction
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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Bowlmania said:
Mental illness is hardly unique to the United States.

As reflected in the article I linked, other countries that have enacted reasonable gun restrictions have seen a dramatic decline in mass shootings.

An 18 year-old kid should not be able to buy a military-style rifle.

Finally, you seem to want to pivot from mass shootings - - where the shooter's sole objective is to kill as many people, usually strangers, as possible - - to urban gun violence, yet they are two separate and distinct phenomena with different demographics and different causes. Restrictions on the purchase of AR-style rifles, for example, are not going to impact someone who shoots his victim with a handgun during a robbery, or gang members and drug dealers who fire at each other and end up killing innocent bystanders in the process. But if a reasonable gun restriction prevents a lonely, loser young male who resents women, and/or is otherwise filled with rage and hate, from shooting up a school and killing a bunch of 10 year-old kids, that's huge.
Click to expand...

1. Mental illness is just a re-direction.

2. When you cant learn from others, its the beginning of the end.
Nobody ... nobody in the world has a mass shooting problem that EVEN comes close to what the States is facing and yet nothing but redirections and shrugging of shoulders is done.

Absolutely pathetic.

In a couple of weeks' time, another serious mass shooting incident will happen. Some people will be outraged or numbed to it again. Others will just shrug their shoulders.

And nothing will happen. Impotency at its worse.
 
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sglowrider said:
1. Mental illness is just a re-direction.

2. When you cant learn from others, its the beginning of the end.
Nobody ... nobody in the world has a mass shooting problem that EVEN comes close to what the States is facing and yet nothing but redirections and shrugging of shoulders is done.

Absolutely pathetic.

In a couple of weeks' time, another serious mass shooting incident will happen. Some people will be outraged or numbed to it again. Others will just shrug their shoulders.

And nothing will happen. Impotency at its worse.
Click to expand...
Hm

Mexico has a mass murder rate in some areas far exceeding ours. The difference is that in Mexico, murder is for a specific criminal purpose. In the USA the mass murder is without purpose, but is a sickness. The guns are the same. Get rid of guns the sickness will survive.

AR type rifLes have been around for many decades. Mass murder using AR’s has been around for a couple. The difference is not the guns.
 
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From this web site it appears that other 16 most recent shootings listed here don't fit the "4 people killed" definition. since there are 17 listed post-Uvalde, it would seem to be too much of a coincidence to believe that it didn't come from there. So either I mis-heard NPR this morning, or the reporter lied. I suppose either is possible. I don't see the claim on their web site, so maybe I mis-heard.

 
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outside shooter said:
From this web site it appears that other 16 most recent shootings listed here don't fit the "4 people killed" definition. since there are 17 listed post-Uvalde, it would seem to be too much of a coincidence to believe that it didn't come from there. So either I mis-heard NPR this morning, or the reporter lied. I suppose either is possible. I don't see the claim on their web site, so maybe I mis-heard.

Click to expand...
You left out option #3…
 
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Bowlmania said:
Mental illness is hardly unique to the United States.

As reflected in the article I linked, other countries that have enacted reasonable gun restrictions have seen a dramatic decline in mass shootings.

An 18 year-old kid should not be able to buy a military-style rifle.

Finally, you seem to want to pivot from mass shootings - - where the shooter's sole objective is to kill as many people, usually strangers, as possible - - to urban gun violence, yet they are two separate and distinct phenomena with different demographics and different causes. Restrictions on the purchase of AR-style rifles, for example, are not going to impact someone who shoots his victim with a handgun during a robbery, or gang members and drug dealers who fire at each other and end up killing innocent bystanders in the process. But if a reasonable gun restriction prevents a lonely, loser young male who resents women, and/or is otherwise filled with rage and hate, from shooting up a school and killing a bunch of 10 year-old kids, that's huge.
Click to expand...
What's unique is a couple things. We don't do much to help our mentally ill. Then we basically hand them a gun and say "have at it. Merica!."

Like most of our issues today it boils down to common sense. We have a lack of common sense in this country.
 
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outside shooter said:
From this web site it appears that other 16 most recent shootings listed here don't fit the "4 people killed" definition. since there are 17 listed post-Uvalde, it would seem to be too much of a coincidence to believe that it didn't come from there. So either I mis-heard NPR this morning, or the reporter lied. I suppose either is possible. I don't see the claim on their web site, so maybe I mis-heard.

Click to expand...
Or maybe you just lied.
 
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"A mass shooting, defined by the Gun Violence Archive, is an incident in which four or more individuals are shot and either injured or killed, excluding the gunman".

Other sites have different definitions, so it is important to keep this in mind.

How many mass shootings per day (under the Gun Violence Archive definition) are acceptable?
 
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