Australia

[IUCrazy2]

"A mass shooting, defined by the Gun Violence Archive, is an incident in which four or more individuals are shot and either injured or killed, excluding the gunman".

Other sites have different definitions, so it is important to keep this in mind.

How many mass shootings per day (under the Gun Violence Archive definition) are acceptable?

I thought gang banger mass shootings did not count or were in a different category than the school? I would wager to bet, without looking, that the vast majority of these 17 fall more in the "inner city, drug and gang related" variety that people were jumping all over CoH for bringing up than the school variety.

So either these count or they don't. Can't have it both ways.

 

[DANC]

I thought gang banger mass shootings did not count or were in a different category than the school? I would wager to bet, without looking, that the vast majority of these 17 fall more in the "inner city, drug and gang related" variety that people were jumping all over CoH for bringing up than the school variety.

So either these count or they don't. Can't have it both ways.

They only count when lobbying for outlawing certain guns.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I linked that article because it provided an analysis, based on factual events. I didn't know I needed to link the actual historical events, but apparently you are unaware of the reality of the numerous arrests of Indigenous protestors in Canada since 2019 involving pipelines being built on tribal lands...If you don't know the history, why the need to comment on a subject you're ignorant of? Are you turning into DANC, where he just makes stuff up and then pretends it's a fact?

Maybe you think the truckers were arrested at any point before the weekend a month or so in when the cops finally moved them out? Pretty sure that didn't happen, since the ongoing complaint from Ottawa residents was the constant blaring of horns, being verbally harassed as they walked in their neighborhoods, and the police doing nothing...

Now whether the reason is racism or not, the fact remains that the RCMP and various police agencies showed a lot less patience dealing with indigenous protestors at various pipeline sites who were opposed to pipelines crossing thru their land. None of those protests were allowed to linger for a month, and there were mass arrests at multiple sites across Canada... This is one example, from 2020

Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Royal Canadian Mounted officers arrested at least six people at a roadblock erected by Indigenous people to block construction

www.theguardian.com

There wasn’t any analysis in that article. There were experts who said they believed there was a difference in how the different protestors were treated based on their race. There was one who spoke of “some evidence” of racism as the reason for that difference but didn’t specify what that evidence was.

That’s not analysis. That’s an opinion article.

Meanwhile, you completely discount the RCMP, who says each incident is handled in appropriate manner based on the incident involved. You’d rather automatically assume racism.

Also, if you had bothered to read the story you included above, you’d know the police only arrested those protestors because they were ordered to remove them by a court injunction. In other words, they didn’t just go and arrest them. They were ordered to do so.

But that doesn’t further your narrative, does it?

 

[TDHoosier]

What's unique is a couple things. We don't do much to help our mentally ill. Then we basically hand them a gun and say "have at it. Merica!."

Like most of our issues today it boils down to common sense. We have a lack of common sense in this country.

A big time lack of common sense. When we are allowing kids to determine what sex they wish to be and totally disregarding their actual God given sex then it is pretty evident common sense left the building a long time ago.

My wife works in the mental health field as a nurse and deals with young adults and kids with mental health diagnosis, from hearing just basic stories the issue is in the home or lack there of a home. These are sad times we live in, glad I'm older but I feel for my kids and grandson.

By reading this tread it sounds as if some need to relocate to Australia they have it figured out "down under".

 

[Bowlmania]

I don’t give a rip about other countries. No other country has the constant barrage of hate, discord, and deliberate high-level destruction of its social order as does this one. And for what reason? To get a few more votes? Some more campaign cash? White guilt? What?

You should give a "rip" about other countries, because some provide a model of what can actually be accomplished when leaders set aside partisan bickering and come together to enact sensible and effective laws to stem the tide of gun violence and save lives.

Your "no other country" claim is pure conjecture and meritless.

Would love to read a post from you one day that is devoid of hyper-partisanship. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You should give a "rip" about other countries, because some provide a model of what can actually be accomplished when leaders set aside partisan bickering and come together to enact sensible and effective laws to stem the tide of gun violence and save lives.

Your "no other country" claim is pure conjecture and meritless.

Would love to read a post from you one day that is devoid of hyper-partisanship. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time.

Speak English and not banal platitudes.

What is your proposal for “sensible” and “effective” gun laws? I’ve mentioned mine often. And if you think repealing immunity and banning semi-auto high velocity rifles is hyper-partisan, I don’t give a rip about that either.

 

[mrhighlife]

A big time lack of common sense. When we are allowing kids to determine what sex they wish to be and totally disregarding their actual God given sex then it is pretty evident common sense left the building a long time ago.

My wife works in the mental health field as a nurse and deals with young adults and kids with mental health diagnosis, from hearing just basic stories the issue is in the home or lack there of a home. These are sad times we live in, glad I'm older but I feel for my kids and grandson.

By reading this tread it sounds as if some need to relocate to Australia they have it figured out "down under".

Yeah your first point isn't really an issue yet. Its inflated by terrified people. Maybe 0.1% of kids are "determining" their sex. Maybe someday it becomes a real issue? Right now its a talking point to drive clicks and viewership to certain media sources who only get clicks and eyeballs by promoting fear. It goes both ways too. Fear mongering has no party affiliation.

A real issue is gun deaths in this country. The how and why they occur are debatable. The fixes are debatable. The number of gun deaths per year is not debatable.

 

[cosmickid]

There wasn’t any analysis in that article. There were experts who said they believed there was a difference in how the different protestors were treated based on their race. There was one who spoke of “some evidence” of racism as the reason for that difference but didn’t specify what that evidence was.

That’s not analysis. That’s an opinion article.

Meanwhile, you completely discount the RCMP, who says each incident is handled in appropriate manner based on the incident involved. You’d rather automatically assume racism.

Also, if you had bothered to read the story you included above, you’d know the police only arrested those protestors because they were ordered to remove them by a court injunction. In other words, they didn’t just go and arrest them. They were ordered to do so.

But that doesn’t further your narrative, does it?

My narrative? Let's go back to the post that triggered you on a subject you know remarkably little about...

First off hoops commented on the difference between how indigenous people are often treated in the US...

"So, do you think it would have gone better for the indigenous man if he had been armed in the manner that the Uvalde shooter was?

The evidence from such encounters in the U.S. doesn't seem like it would support that idea, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter."

I responded and added additional evidence to his well spoken point by speaking of the situation in Canada, and the difference between how Indigenous protesters from 2019-2021 were treated and the way the truckers in Ottawa were treated...

"We know that when Indigenous people protested in Canada, they were treated far more harshly than the truckers in the "freedom caravan".

For some reason you took issue with this, even though it's a subject you really know very little about. Aside from the fact that the truckers were virtually given free reign and not even confronted by police for a month or so, you don't even realize a major distinction. You refer to my story, and totally miss the fact that the various Indigenous protests were broken up by RCMP.

Not only was there no RCMP involvement in clearing out the truckers, but it was basically carried out by local Ottawa and provincial police after the right wing Provincial Govt decided enough was enough. No calling in of the RCMP on isolated tribal lands where the only residents around were the people protesting...

Do you think local Ottawa police/govt would have stood by and allowed indigenous protestors to blockade the city, camp outside Parliament disrupting traffic and the lives of local Ottawa residents for a month? They even let the truckers blockade the Windsor bridge for a few days, and when they did move on the truckers in areas like Manitoba and Alberta they discovered caches of weapons. Can you imagine if any of the indigenous people protesting incursions on to THEIR LAND had been discovered to have weapons. The truckers were trespassing, the indigenous protestors were on their own land...

 

[TDHoosier]

Yeah your first point isn't really an issue yet. Its inflated by terrified people. Maybe 0.1% of kids are "determining" their sex. Maybe someday it becomes a real issue? Right now its a talking point to drive clicks and viewership to certain media sources who only get clicks and eyeballs by promoting fear. It goes both ways too. Fear mongering has no party affiliation.

A real issue is gun deaths in this country. The how and why they occur are debatable. The fixes are debatable. The number of gun deaths per year is not debatable.

Probably is click bait at this point, but with wide stream social media IMO it will so be a much bigger issue, very scary for my daughter and son-in law who just became new parents 6 months ago.

Sadly the greatest number of gun related deaths are due to some sort of street or gang violence and suicide (this is by far the largest number) and I really don't think those numbers are debatable. Honestly you could take away the "assault rifles" and it probably wouldn't do much to put a dent in those numbers. If a person is allowed to be in a school for as long as this gunman he could have had a 16 round pistol and done the same damage, sad but true.

 

[cosmickid]

Speak English and not banal platitudes.

What is your proposal for “sensible” and “effective” gun laws? I’ve mentioned mine often. And if you think repealing immunity and banning semi-auto high velocity rifles is hyper-partisan, I don’t give a rip about that either.

Well people who actually know about the topic and have a far greater insight into the world of guns disagree with you. Evan Bille an actual firearms coach in NC writing in the Charlotte Observer...

"As a coach for the Charlotte Junior Rifle Team, I teach young people how to shoot. And every day I worry a gun could be turned on them in school. It does not have to be this way.

Let’s start with one simple and bipartisan solution: raise the age to buy a rifle. By federal law, you must be 21 to purchase a handgun, but only 18 to buy a rifle."

And here is his reasoning...

As a coach, I do not speak for the organization, only as an NRA-qualified sharpshooter. I started shooting at 14, and traveled across the country to compete. I was surrounded by mentors and instructors who not only taught me the basics of marksmanship, but also the responsibility of gun ownership. We are leaving young people, especially young men, without any support while providing full access to AR-15s.

There is a reason every terrorist group across the world, from the Taliban to the Klan, recruits isolated young men. Extremism and violence, especially now in decentralized online spaces, can provide a cheap sense of identity, community, and purpose. But there is a small window for radicalization: The average age of violent offenders is under 25 for nearly every offense. As the brain fully develops, most people age out of extremism and violence."

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article261817070.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Crayfish57]

Like most of our issues today it boils down to common sense. We have a lack of common sense in this country.

That is what I think everytime I hear a leftest defending Biden and the democratic party in general.

 

[mrhighlife]

Probably is click bait at this point, but with wide stream social media IMO it will so be a much bigger issue, very scary for my daughter and son-in law who just became new parents 6 months ago.

Sadly the greatest number of gun related deaths are due to some sort of street or gang violence and suicide (this is by far the largest number) and I really don't think those numbers are debatable. Honestly you could take away the "assault rifles" and it probably wouldn't do much to put a dent in those numbers. If a person is allowed to be in a school for as long as this gunman he could have had a 16 round pistol and done the same damage, sad but true.

Right but those are sort of self inflicted and/or multifaceted issues. Gang violence is a different beast that needs to be tackled. For sure. Suicide same.

One thing that strict, very strict back ground check type regulations, does is create a wait. Time. That time to think. Time to cool down. Time to seek an alternate path. That time could be a major difference maker and it does nothing to stop a law abiding citizen from obtaining what they want.

 

[jet812]

Yeah your first point isn't really an issue yet. Its inflated by terrified people. Maybe 0.1% of kids are "determining" their sex. Maybe someday it becomes a real issue? Right now its a talking point to drive clicks and viewership to certain media sources who only get clicks and eyeballs by promoting fear. It goes both ways too. Fear mongering has no party affiliation.

A real issue is gun deaths in this country. The how and why they occur are debatable. The fixes are debatable. The number of gun deaths per year is not debatable.

I agree that gender dysphoria is a much less important issue than gun deaths, but we should not ignore the mental illness leading to either one…

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

My narrative? Let's go back to the post that triggered you on a subject you know remarkably little about...

First off hoops commented on the difference between how indigenous people are often treated in the US...

"So, do you think it would have gone better for the indigenous man if he had been armed in the manner that the Uvalde shooter was?

The evidence from such encounters in the U.S. doesn't seem like it would support that idea, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter."

I responded and added additional evidence to his well spoken point by speaking of the situation in Canada, and the difference between how Indigenous protesters from 2019-2021 were treated and the way the truckers in Ottawa were treated...

"We know that when Indigenous people protested in Canada, they were treated far more harshly than the truckers in the "freedom caravan".

For some reason you took issue with this, even though it's a subject you really know very little about. Aside from the fact that the truckers were virtually given free reign and not even confronted by police for a month or so, you don't even realize a major distinction. You refer to my story, and totally miss the fact that the various Indigenous protests were broken up by RCMP.

Not only was there no RCMP involvement in clearing out the truckers, but it was basically carried out by local Ottawa and provincial police after the right wing Provincial Govt decided enough was enough. No calling in of the RCMP on isolated tribal lands where the only residents around were the people protesting...

Do you think local Ottawa police/govt would have stood by and allowed indigenous protestors to blockade the city, camp outside Parliament disrupting traffic and the lives of local Ottawa residents for a month? They even let the truckers blockade the Windsor bridge for a few days, and when they did move on the truckers in areas like Manitoba and Alberta they discovered caches of weapons. Can you imagine if any of the indigenous people protesting incursions on to THEIR LAND had been discovered to have weapons. The truckers were trespassing, the indigenous protestors were on their own land...

Lol. You’ve offered literally NO evidence for what you claim in the bolded. You’ve posted opinion pieces which you present as “analysis”, you’ve asked “do you think?” about 100 times, and you seem to know even less about it than I do.

Everyone knows what you think but you’ve offered no evidence to back up your claims. That’s my only observation.

Also, LOL as to me being triggered.

 

[mrhighlife]

That is what I think everytime I hear a leftest defending Biden and the democratic party in general.

Practicing common sense is free, can be done anywhere, and everyone on earth needs to do it. No one is perfect at it.

 

[mrhighlife]

I agree that gender dysphoria is a much less important issue than gun deaths, but we should not ignore the mental illness leading to either one…

No not at all. And a lot of times different diseases have similar treatments.

 

[TDHoosier]

Right but those are sort of self inflicted and/or multifaceted issues. Gang violence is a different beast that needs to be tackled. For sure. Suicide same.

One thing that strict, very strict back ground check type regulations, does is create a wait. Time. That time to think. Time to cool down. Time to seek an alternate path. That time could be a major difference maker and it does nothing to stop a law abiding citizen from obtaining what they want.

I know several guys that sell guns out of their homes, they are all very good guys and only sell to those they know or from referrals of people they know. I'm sure there are thousands of individuals that do the same but probably do not have the conscious that my guys do.

I think I saw where there are presumed to be 400 million guns in America, I would say that probably accounts for 1/3 of the actual total. This is just my opinion and basing it off how many guns my small circle of friends own.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Well people who actually know about the topic and have a far greater insight into the world of guns disagree with you. Evan Bille an actual firearms coach in NC writing in the Charlotte Observer...

"As a coach for the Charlotte Junior Rifle Team, I teach young people how to shoot. And every day I worry a gun could be turned on them in school. It does not have to be this way.

Let’s start with one simple and bipartisan solution: raise the age to buy a rifle. By federal law, you must be 21 to purchase a handgun, but only 18 to buy a rifle."

And here is his reasoning...

As a coach, I do not speak for the organization, only as an NRA-qualified sharpshooter. I started shooting at 14, and traveled across the country to compete. I was surrounded by mentors and instructors who not only taught me the basics of marksmanship, but also the responsibility of gun ownership. We are leaving young people, especially young men, without any support while providing full access to AR-15s.

There is a reason every terrorist group across the world, from the Taliban to the Klan, recruits isolated young men. Extremism and violence, especially now in decentralized online spaces, can provide a cheap sense of identity, community, and purpose. But there is a small window for radicalization: The average age of violent offenders is under 25 for nearly every offense. As the brain fully develops, most people age out of extremism and violence."

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article261817070.html#storylink=cpy

I've got no problem with raising the age to 21. Although, I think that is another one of those feel-good-ineffective laws. A number of school shooters are younger than the legal age of 18 now, and of the public non-school mass shootings very few are 18. In addition to the assault weapon issue we have a looming issue about shotguns. A 12 gauge pump could do as much damage in a closed classroom as an AR. Many states don't restrict shotguns at all.

While I'm at it, I think the uniform age for adulthood ought to be put at 21 for all purposes, including voting, drinking, some gun-purchases, binding contracts, and more. The only exception would be in driving, (with restricted licenses) military, and child labor laws.

I further think our gun-paranoia education system is counter-productive. It piques interest in more dangerous guns because they are contraband. I'm in favor of returning rifle and trap and skeet clubs and competition to high school to assuage interest in guns and encourage safe use.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Give up your guns. The government will protect you.

View embedded media

Footage shows Australian police officer assaulting indigenous teen

An Australian police officer was captured assaulting an indigenous teenager at a police station in New South Wales.Subscribe to our channel for all our lates...

youtube.com

if only he had a gun...things would have ended so much better for him. lol

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I've got no problem with raising the age to 21. Although, I think that is another one of those feel-good-ineffective laws. A number of school shooters are younger than the legal age of 18 now, and of the public non-school mass shootings very few are 18. In addition to the assault weapon issue we have a looming issue about shotguns. A 12 gauge pump could do as much damage in a closed classroom as an AR. Many states don't restrict shotguns at all.

While I'm at it, I think the uniform age for adulthood ought to be put at 21 for all purposes, including voting, drinking, some gun-purchases, binding contracts, and more. The only exception would be in driving, (with restricted licenses) military, and child labor laws.

I further think our gun-paranoia education system is counter-productive. It piques interest in more dangerous guns because they are contraband. I'm in favor of returning rifle and trap and skeet clubs and competition to high school to assuage interest in guns and encourage safe use.

Shotguns have a finite magazine capacity. Plus they have no ranged accuracy or lethality. Cop Kevlar stops their rounds. They’re nowhere near the killing weapon that the semi auto rifle is.

Shotguns are also the perfect home defense weapon. We can control - with regulations - the magazine sizes but not much else.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Shotguns have a finite magazine capacity. Plus they have no ranged accuracy or lethality. Cop Kevlar stops their rounds. They’re nowhere near the killing weapon that the semi auto rifle is.

Shotguns are also the perfect home defense weapon. We can control - with regulations - the magazine sizes but not much else.

"The three types of weapons used by the man accused of killing 12 people in a Colorado movie theater — a semiautomatic variation of the military’s M-16 rifle, a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun and at least one .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol — are among the most popular guns available in the multibillion-dollar American firearms market.​

​

* * * *​

It appears, the police say, that James E. Holmes, the man accused in the Aurora shootings, used all three types of weapons inside the theater as well, first firing the shotgun, then using the semiautomatic rifle until its 100-round barrel magazine jammed, and finishing off with a pistol. (A second .40-caliber pistol was also found at the scene, though it was unclear whether it had been used in the theater.)"​

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Hm

Mexico has a mass murder rate in some areas far exceeding ours. The difference is that in Mexico, murder is for a specific criminal purpose. In the USA the mass murder is without purpose, but is a sickness. The guns are the same. Get rid of guns the sickness will survive.

AR type rifLes have been around for many decades. Mass murder using AR’s has been around for a couple. The difference is not the guns.

The difference is how many people you can kill in a short period of time.

Cops wouldn't be outside the room cowering if the guy just had a handgun

If someone was going to attack me, I'd rather it be a hand gun, bat, nunchucks or anything else. My chances of surviving the encounter would go up immensely if it wasn't an assault rifle .

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The difference is how many people you can kill in a short period of time.

Cops wouldn't be outside the room cowering if the guy just had a handgun

If someone was going to attack me, I'd rather it be a hand gun, bat, nunchucks or anything else. My chances of surviving the encounter would go up immensely if it wasn't an assault rifle .

Not sure what your point is, but I think I agree.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The difference is how many people you can kill in a short period of time.

Cops wouldn't be outside the room cowering if the guy just had a handgun

If someone was going to attack me, I'd rather it be a hand gun, bat, nunchucks or anything else. My chances of surviving the encounter would go up immensely if it wasn't an assault rifle .

Or, to be fair, a shotgun with double ought in it up close. But not scary at range.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Probably is click bait at this point, but with wide stream social media IMO it will so be a much bigger issue, very scary for my daughter and son-in law who just became new parents 6 months ago.

Sadly the greatest number of gun related deaths are due to some sort of street or gang violence and suicide (this is by far the largest number) and I really don't think those numbers are debatable. Honestly you could take away the "assault rifles" and it probably wouldn't do much to put a dent in those numbers. If a person is allowed to be in a school for as long as this gunman he could have had a 16 round pistol and done the same damage, sad but true.

It’s not scary. It’s not a communicable disease. It’s something 99% of parents won’t need to even think about. Hopefully the small number that do will be empathetic and compassionate and attempt to understand the issue

 

[TDHoosier]

It’s not scary. It’s not a communicable disease. It’s something 99% of parents won’t need to even think about. Hopefully the small number that do will be empathetic and compassionate and attempt to understand the issue

Well I would hope it is 100% the parents who help the kids through these things and schools do not feel the need to inject themselves into the equation. I would just hope that schools would teach kids things like Mathematics and things they are intended to do.

 

[Harry Hondo]

There have been 17 mass shootings (4 or more deaths) in the USA, just SINCE Uvalde. This is according to NPR this morning.

This is because a lot of (mass) shootings are committed by people who get angry and have a gun handy. Every weekend it seems there’s a party in Indy where two people get into a fight and one pulls out a gun and starts shooting, sometimes killing multiple people.

Just over the weekend a guy shot another in a road rage incident when the victim got out of his car and came to his drivers side window. Fortunately, the shooter realized what he’d done and stayed with the victim until the ambulance arrived, but this, like a lot of senseless shootings was because he had a gun handy to take care of his anger problem. No crazy needed, just stress and anger and a hand gun at arms length.

 

[TommyCracker]

This is because a lot of (mass) shootings are committed by people who get angry and have a gun handy. Every weekend it seems there’s a party in Indy where two people get into a fight and one pulls out a gun and starts shooting, sometimes killing multiple people.

Just over the weekend a guy shot another in a road rage incident when the victim got out of his car and came to his drivers side window. Fortunately, the shooter realized what he’d done and stayed with the victim until the ambulance arrived, but this, like a lot of senseless shootings was because he had a gun handy to take care of his anger problem. No crazy needed, just stress and anger and a hand gun at arms length.

This post spells out why the problem is the number of guns in this country and the easy access to guns in this country.

The mindset that actually believes any solution that involves 'we need more guns' is completely erroneous.

Guns naturally lead to the worst escalation possibilities.

That is the real issue.

If everyone had been armed like the NRA believes they should be....a bunch of us wouldn't be breathing today.

Think back to the confrontations you've had in your life, now imagine those confrontations if you and everyone else had access to a gun?

Again it's not about good guys and bad guys....it's about losing your shit and having a gun handy.

Ben Wilson was the #1 basketball recruit in the mid 80's out of Chicago. He is arguing with his girl in a drugstore. They burst out and Ben runs into a dude. The dude is pissed and basically yells 'WTF!!'. Wilson tells him to f off. Now the guy is really pissed and he happened to have taken his granddad's gun, so he pulled it out and threatened Wilson. Wilson walked towards him and the dude shot him dead.

Wilson was likely going to Illinois to be part of that late 80's team. Nick Anderson wore his number (#25) the rest of his career to honor him.

The teenage shooter spent his early life in prison.

All because he happened to have his grandfather's gun at the time.

If he didn't what happens? Maybe Wilson and this kid fights? Maybe the kid doesn't threaten Wilson as he's walking away?

That's just a common story of an argument that escalated into complete life changing events because of a gun.

That's the point.

No one is going to argue that we don't have a mental illness crisis in this country. That should mean that restricting access to guns is even more critical right? Because again, a gun leads to the worst possible escalation scenario.

The other diversion tactic is to point to gang bangers. Well yeah, that is a major issue because again the it's the gun that leads to the worst, quick escalations.

That's the point.

 

[DANC]

Lol. You’ve offered literally NO evidence for what you claim in the bolded. You’ve posted opinion pieces which you present as “analysis”, you’ve asked “do you think?” about 100 times, and you seem to know even less about it than I do.

Everyone knows what you think but you’ve offered no evidence to back up your claims. That’s my only observation.

Also, LOL as to me being triggered.

He's always confused opinion with fact, so he writes a novel so you'll lose interest before actually reading what he posts.

If he's not a bot, he should be.

 

[DANC]

I've got no problem with raising the age to 21. Although, I think that is another one of those feel-good-ineffective laws. A number of school shooters are younger than the legal age of 18 now, and of the public non-school mass shootings very few are 18. In addition to the assault weapon issue we have a looming issue about shotguns. A 12 gauge pump could do as much damage in a closed classroom as an AR. Many states don't restrict shotguns at all.

While I'm at it, I think the uniform age for adulthood ought to be put at 21 for all purposes, including voting, drinking, some gun-purchases, binding contracts, and more. The only exception would be in driving, (with restricted licenses) military, and child labor laws.

I further think our gun-paranoia education system is counter-productive. It piques interest in more dangerous guns because they are contraband. I'm in favor of returning rifle and trap and skeet clubs and competition to high school to assuage interest in guns and encourage safe use.

Actually, there are those clubs - at least in Indiana. My cousin coaches a HS team in northern Indiana.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This post spells out why the problem is the number of guns in this country and the easy access to guns in this country.

The mindset that actually believes any solution that involves 'we need more guns' is completely erroneous.

Guns naturally lead to the worst escalation possibilities.

That is the real issue.

If everyone had been armed like the NRA believes they should be....a bunch of us wouldn't be breathing today.

Think back to the confrontations you've had in your life, now imagine those confrontations if you and everyone else had access to a gun?

Again it's not about good guys and bad guys....it's about losing your shit and having a gun handy.

Ben Wilson was the #1 basketball recruit in the mid 80's out of Chicago. He is arguing with his girl in a drugstore. They burst out and Ben runs into a dude. The dude is pissed and basically yells 'WTF!!'. Wilson tells him to f off. Now the guy is really pissed and he happened to have taken his granddad's gun, so he pulled it out and threatened Wilson. Wilson walked towards him and the dude shot him dead.

Wilson was likely going to Illinois to be part of that late 80's team. Nick Anderson wore his number (#25) the rest of his career to honor him.

The teenage shooter spent his early life in prison.

All because he happened to have his grandfather's gun at the time.

If he didn't what happens? Maybe Wilson and this kid fights? Maybe the kid doesn't threaten Wilson as he's walking away?

That's just a common story of an argument that escalated into complete life changing events because of a gun.

That's the point.

No one is going to argue that we don't have a mental illness crisis in this country. That should mean that restricting access to guns is even more critical right? Because again, a gun leads to the worst possible escalation scenario.

The other diversion tactic is to point to gang bangers. Well yeah, that is a major issue because again the it's the gun that leads to the worst, quick escalations.

That's the point.

Strange that the Democrats inject race into every major policy issue whether or not it’s relevant. Race is a huge factor in random gun violence. Black kids shooting black kids is a big part of the problem. What do we hear from Dems here? Crickets.

More gun laws will only burden those who are sensible gun owners and mostly law abiding any way. The black kids in the hood who start shooting for a sideways glance get their guns in back alleys. They don’t care about more gun laws, sensible or otherwise.

Total Deaths due to Firearms by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

guns, gun-related deaths

www.kff.org

 

[ORG]

"What happened in Australia provides a concrete example of how a healthy democracy can confront powerful interests to introduce rational policies that clearly benefit the country. The Australian success story also reminds us what a dismal outlier the United States remains in terms of gun violence and political will even in the face of the most gruesome and abhorrent of all mass shootings: the killings of schoolchildren."

How to Prevent Gun Massacres? Look Around the World

Australia, Britain, Canada, and other countries have enacted reforms that turned mass shootings into rare, aberrational events rather than everyday occurrences.

www.newyorker.com

Individual rights are being taken in Australia and its not limited to firearms.

 

[Bowlmania]

Individual rights are being taken in Australia and its not limited to firearms.

My focus was solely on the strides they've made in dramatically reducing mass shootings. As far as individual rights and civil liberties, I know they're generally ranked very high relative to the rest of the world in these areas, and I'm unaware of any recent trends that would suggest otherwise. Do you have a link that supports your position?

 

[TommyCracker]

Strange that the Democrats inject race into every major policy issue whether or not it’s relevant. Race is a huge factor in random gun violence. Black kids shooting black kids is a big part of the problem. What do we hear from Dems here? Crickets.

More gun laws will only burden those who are sensible gun owners and mostly law abiding any way. The black kids in the hood who start shooting for a sideways glance get their guns in back alleys. They don’t care about more gun laws, sensible or otherwise.

Total Deaths due to Firearms by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

guns, gun-related deaths

www.kff.org

Other than the first 11 words, your post is complete hackery horseshit.

I know it's your brand but still, GTFOH.

The Dem stance for my lifetime has been for stronger gun licensing, registration and regulation (like the 2A states). That impacts all guns in this country. It impacts those 'scary blacks' that you keep trying to divert to.

Strong regulation gives law enforcement actual power to go after those who are in possession of a now 'illegal' gun. It doesn't matter if it's a gang banger in Compton, a Cowboy in Montana or an Appalachian Hill Nazi in Kentucky.

You know tough registration laws like they have in Switzerland (which is a comparable country in regards to gun ownership per population).

Their last mass shooting was in 2001. They cracked down on their gun regulations and guess what....they've had zero since. We on the other hand have had around 2000 (about 1 a day).

Getting hackery , guns are a Republican fetish. It's the republicans who will not allow for any kind of meaningful legislation even though the majority of the country wants it (including a large majority of gun owners).

So what's the hold up? Ah yeah, the NRA has the republican politicians by the balls.

Basically everything that is being thrown out in response to another mass killing has two answers.....

1. The ease of owning/getting guns with very little accountability (so turning schools into alcatraz has zero focus on doing something about the ease of anyone getting a gun. Ex. I'm in Minnesota and we have tougher gun laws...but I can register for a gun permit through Florida with no issues. Then I can take that down to the gun shop twenty minutes away in Wisconsin and buy whatever my heart wants, all in about three hours. Easy peesy, chop chop).

State legislation doesn't work, like most universal issues. This is a federal problem.

2. Other countries have the same societal issues as we do (broken families, mental health, poverty, access to movies and video games, diverse populations) yet don't have even close to the amount of gun violence that we do.

So stop with that BS.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Other than the first 11 words, your post is complete hackery horseshit.

I know it's your brand but still, GTFOH.

The Dem stance for my lifetime has been for stronger gun licensing, registration and regulation (like the 2A states). That impacts all guns in this country. It impacts those 'scary blacks' that you keep trying to divert to.

Strong regulation gives law enforcement actual power to go after those who are in possession of a now 'illegal' gun. It doesn't matter if it's a gang banger in Compton, a Cowboy in Montana or an Appalachian Hill Nazi in Kentucky.

You know tough registration laws like they have in Switzerland (which is a comparable country in regards to gun ownership per population).

Their last mass shooting was in 2001. They cracked down on their gun regulations and guess what....they've had zero since. We on the other hand have had around 2000 (about 1 a day).

Getting hackery , guns are a Republican fetish. It's the republicans who will not allow for any kind of meaningful legislation even though the majority of the country wants it (including a large majority of gun owners).

So what's the hold up? Ah yeah, the NRA has the republican politicians by the balls.

Basically everything that is being thrown out in response to another mass killing has two answers.....

1. The ease of owning/getting guns with very little accountability (so turning schools into alcatraz has zero focus on doing something about the ease of anyone getting a gun. Ex. I'm in Minnesota and we have tougher gun laws...but I can register for a gun permit through Florida with no issues. Then I can take that down to the gun shop twenty minutes away in Wisconsin and buy whatever my heart wants, all in about three hours. Easy peesy, chop chop).

State legislation doesn't work, like most universal issues. This is a federal problem.

2. Other countries have the same societal issues as we do (broken families, mental health, poverty, access to movies and video games, diverse populations) yet don't have even close to the amount of gun violence that we do.

So stop with that BS.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Do you even know the background reasons for the immunity laws?

It wasn’t because the gun purchasing laws were working so well. It’s partly because of the black markets that the gun industry knew about and made money off of. The black markets supply black youth. Black youth shoot each other by the dozens every single day.

As far as law enforcement is concerned we must increase stop and frisk and expand the grounds for confiscating guns found with stops and frisks. The democrats steadfastly oppose that because of targeting or something. I guess you believe black shootings is better than black stop and frisks.

 

[TommyCracker]

You don’t know what you are talking about. Do you even know the background reasons for the immunity laws?

It wasn’t because the gun purchasing laws were working so well. It’s partly because of the black markets that the gun industry knew about and made money off of. The black markets supply black youth. Black youth shoot each other by the dozens every single day.

As far as law enforcement is concerned we must increase stop and frisk and expand the grounds for confiscating guns found with stops and frisks. The democrats steadfastly oppose that because of targeting or something. I guess you believe black shootings is better than black stop and frisks.

The majority of Chicago's guns are brought in through Gary, where it's much, much easier to get a firearm in Indiana.

Another example where the 'state's rights' argument makes an absolute mess of a situation.

It's how fellow Illinoisan Kyle Rittenhouse was able to get his weapons....through Wisconsin.

I don't have a problem with stop and frisk, especially for guns.

There are many ways and less, ah hem, racial profiling ways to initiate a stop and frisk. It's not an all or nothing technique. You can use technology like they do to get into sports arenas, you can frisk if being pulled over for something else, you can frisk if you see a gun.

That's part of being able to identify legally registered guns from hidden non-registered guns (and coming down hard on anyone from a gang banger to a white militia wannabe to a rural nutjob writing his manifesto to a religious cult in Texas).



However we can't even talk about stop and frisk until we have a strong legislative answer first.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

That's part of being able to identify legally registered guns from hidden non-registered guns (and coming down hard on anyone from a gang banger to a white militia wannabe to a rural nutjob writing his manifesto to a religious cult in Texas).

Just stop it. The elephant in the room about shootings and killings is black youngsters shooting black youngsters because of the way they talk or something. If all we had were “white militia wannabes“ and ”rural nut jobs” our statistics would look pretty good on a world basis.

Your comment about NW Indiana is only partially correct. The problem that helped prompt the awful immunity statute was in a few gun shops in the western suburbs,

 

[DANC]

Other than the first 11 words, your post is complete hackery horseshit.

I know it's your brand but still, GTFOH.

The Dem stance for my lifetime has been for stronger gun licensing, registration and regulation (like the 2A states). That impacts all guns in this country. It impacts those 'scary blacks' that you keep trying to divert to.

Strong regulation gives law enforcement actual power to go after those who are in possession of a now 'illegal' gun. It doesn't matter if it's a gang banger in Compton, a Cowboy in Montana or an Appalachian Hill Nazi in Kentucky.

You know tough registration laws like they have in Switzerland (which is a comparable country in regards to gun ownership per population).

Their last mass shooting was in 2001. They cracked down on their gun regulations and guess what....they've had zero since. We on the other hand have had around 2000 (about 1 a day).

Getting hackery , guns are a Republican fetish. It's the republicans who will not allow for any kind of meaningful legislation even though the majority of the country wants it (including a large majority of gun owners).

So what's the hold up? Ah yeah, the NRA has the republican politicians by the balls.

Basically everything that is being thrown out in response to another mass killing has two answers.....

1. The ease of owning/getting guns with very little accountability (so turning schools into alcatraz has zero focus on doing something about the ease of anyone getting a gun. Ex. I'm in Minnesota and we have tougher gun laws...but I can register for a gun permit through Florida with no issues. Then I can take that down to the gun shop twenty minutes away in Wisconsin and buy whatever my heart wants, all in about three hours. Easy peesy, chop chop).

State legislation doesn't work, like most universal issues. This is a federal problem.

2. Other countries have the same societal issues as we do (broken families, mental health, poverty, access to movies and video games, diverse populations) yet don't have even close to the amount of gun violence that we do.

So stop with that BS.

"You know tough registration laws like they have in Switzerland (which is a comparable country in regards to gun ownership per population)."

Congratulations, Tommy. You've inadvertantly made my point that this is a societal problem.

Everyone in Switzerland is required to fulfill a military requirement. And guess what - they keep their weapons - rifles - in their homes!

I am good friends with a Swiss guy and he showed me the - better be sitting down for this - a fully AUTOMATIC weapon he kept under his bed! And this is common in Switzerland.

So, the claims that it's guns causing the problem is BS. It's our society that is sick.

EDIT: I had heard that all Swiss citizens were required to have a firearm, but I don't know if that's true anymore. My friend did his military service and is part of a reserve unit, so that's why he has his weapon. But he keeps it at his house- with ammunition - instead of an armory.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Also, LOL as to me being triggered

You look triggered to me...

 

[CO. Hoosier]

"You know tough registration laws like they have in Switzerland (which is a comparable country in regards to gun ownership per population)."

Congratulations, Tommy. You've inadvertantly made my point that this is a societal problem.

Everyone in Switzeraland is required to fulfill a military requirement. And guess what - they keep their weapons - rifles - in their homes!

I am good friends with a Swiss guy and he showed me the - better be sitting down for this - a fully AUTOMATIC weapon he kept under his bed! And this is common in Switzerland.

So, the claims that it's guns causing the problem is BS. It's our society that is sick.

A more racially and culturally homogeneous country than Switzerland I hard to find. The “diversity is our strength” crowd must think that Switzerland is an awful place.

I don’t think the problem here is our racial and cultural differences as much as it is how the Democrats use those differences for political gain. They are making it worse with all the DEI and pronoun BS.