Attack on Saudi Oil Field

[IUPaterade724]

Is this the operation that gets Trump to sign on with a war against Iran? IMO it will almost guarantee a second term.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middleeast/saudi-oil-attack-lister-analysis-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/defia...tack-accusations-as-blind-and-futile-comments

 

[toastedbread]

Is this the operation that gets Trump to sign on with a war against Iran? IMO it will almost guarantee a second term.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middleeast/saudi-oil-attack-lister-analysis-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/defia...tack-accusations-as-blind-and-futile-comments

Surprisingly, i think the US must respond militarily. You have to draw rules of the road somewhere. Iran keeps pushing the limit as to what they can do without retribution. They also like these attacks where they claim not attribution. No question they provided support for this operstion, if they didn't direct it themselves. I'd say an attack on the global oil supply is a red line. I think a measured response is appropriate. It should be proportional, and hopefully avoid a greater conflict.

 

[IUPaterade724]

Apparently a Yemeni faction is claiming responsibilty and Iran is denouncing the U.S. for whatever reason.

 

[76-1]

Apparently a Yemeni faction is claiming responsibilty and Iran is denouncing the U.S. for whatever reason.

One US analyst has the attack coming from an Iranian backed faction that launched the drones from southern Iraq (180 degrees away from a Yemeni launch)... No corroborating sources on this yet. He said Kuwaiti sources actually heard the drones pass overhead...

 

[IUPaterade724]

That would definitely stir up the drum of war if true.
It seems houthi rebels want to take credit.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...ity-for-drone-attacks-on-saudi-oil-sites/amp/

Mike Pompeo says otherwise.


Apparently the Houthi rebels are backed by Iran in Yemen fighting the Saudis. I was unaware of this.

 

[UncleMark]

Apparently a Yemeni faction is claiming responsibilty and Iran is denouncing the U.S. for whatever reason.

One US analyst has the attack coming from an Iranian backed faction that launched the drones from southern Iraq (180 degrees away from a Yemeni launch)... No corroborating sources on this yet. He said Kuwaiti sources actually heard the drones pass overhead...

I bet Bolton is pissed. A war with Iran was his wet dream, and now he won't be a part of it.

 

[76-1]

Surprisingly, i think the US must respond militarily. You have to draw rules of the road somewhere. Iran keeps pushing the limit as to what they can do without retribution. They also like these attacks where they claim not attribution. No question they provided support for this operstion, if they didn't direct it themselves. I'd say an attack on the global oil supply is a red line. I think a measured response is appropriate. It should be proportional, and hopefully avoid a greater conflict.

What is tricky about a "proportional response" is that you give away your knowledge of the opponents radar coverages and other defense weaknesses that you may very well need to be able to exploit if things escalate to a full scale versus limited attack.

This is a serious calculation that could very well cost lives if you're sending any manned aircraft into their air defense tactical areas of operation in future full scale operations...

Many think that the way to go is a seriously overwhelming "disproportionate" strike (with multiple follow on strikes) so as to resolve the situation once and for all... It's rarely that simple but is possible to perhaps be done effectively if the military is allowed the unconstrained use of the assets available...

 

[toastedbread]

What is tricky about a "proportional response" is that you give away your knowledge of the opponents radar coverages and other defense weaknesses that you may very well need to be able to exploit if things escalate to a full scale versus limited attack.

I think you underestimate our technological superiority.

Many think that the way to go is a seriously overwhelming "disproportionate" strike (with multiple follow on strikes) so as to resolve the situation once and for all... It's rarely that simple but is possible to perhaps be done effectively if the military is allowed the unconstrained use of the assets available...

That would be a disaster. Do you know what "total war" looks like? Take this with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be shocked to see terrorist attacks on American soil the likes we've never seen before. They undoubtedly have assets here. Don't kid yourself. That's in addition to the fact that the entire middle east would be on fire. Not worth it.

I'll settle for the status quo. Set a line now, and the guards won't respond.

Edit: just to be clear, but I think doing nothing right now would set a terrible precedent. I said at the time of the boat attacks that if you don't draw a line somewhere, the guards will keep pressing their luck. If Trump doesn't act now, that's a serious desertion of leadership. It's only a matter of time before they push their luck further.

 

[37Hoosier]

Is this the operation that gets Trump to sign on with a war against Iran? IMO it will almost guarantee a second term.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middleeast/saudi-oil-attack-lister-analysis-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/defia...tack-accusations-as-blind-and-futile-comments

The exact opposite. The populace is tired of phony political wars, especially in that region. W basically sent the country into a recession on a cooked up pack of lies and phony patriotism that we still pay for and will for quite some time. I don’t see the country getting behind this clown to defend those lazy ass Saudis...it’s their problem, let them deal with it.

 

[76-1]

I think you underestimate our technological superiority.


That would be a disaster. Do you know what "total war" looks like? Take this with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be shocked to see terrorist attacks on American soil the likes we've never seen before. They undoubtedly have assets here. Don't kid yourself. That's in addition to the fact that the entire middle east would be on fire. Not worth it.

I'll settle for the status quo. Set a line now, and the guards won't respond.

Edit: just to be clear, but I think doing nothing right now would set a terrible precedent. I said at the time of the boat attacks that if you don't draw a line somewhere, the guards will keep pressing their luck. If Trump doesn't act now, that's a serious desertion of leadership. It's only a matter of time before they push their luck further.

Without getting into a whizzing match about which of us has a greater understanding of what Total War looks like (and yes I do understand the horrors of it) I can tell you that I agree with your concerns both about the consequences in the region and here at home. I was simply pointing out that there are two schools of thought as to why and why not to go with a "proportional response". Every asset used in such a response is an asset exposed...

 

[toastedbread]

Without getting into a whizzing match about which of us has a greater understanding of what Total War looks like (and yes I do understand the horrors of it) I can tell you that I agree with your concerns both about the consequences in the region and here at home. I was simply pointing out that there are two schools of thought as to why and why not to go with a "proportional response". Every asset used in such a response is an asset exposed...

We have the capability to respond without putting assets at risk...

 

[37Hoosier]

We have the capability to respond without putting assets at risk...

Why should “we”respond to anything at all? The Saudis are hardly our allies, the Israelis would sell us in a heartbeat for their own gain....the Iranians would love to see us blunder into another unwinnable war behind this clown president .... for what? To whose gain? To “win” what exactly?

 

[76-1]

We have the capability to respond without putting assets at risk...

Based solely on your previous posts in regard to the United States military I very highly doubt you have any unique knowledge of its capabilities...

 

[UncleMark]

Why should “we”respond to anything at all? The Saudis are hardly our allies, the Israelis would sell us in a heartbeat for their own gain....the Iranians would love to see us blunder into another unwinnable war behind this clown president .... for what? To whose gain? To “win” what exactly?

This isn't the 70s. We're essentially energy independent. We have no business getting involved in this situation at this point.

 

[iuwclurker]

Is this the operation that gets Trump to sign on with a war against Iran? IMO it will almost guarantee a second term.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middleeast/saudi-oil-attack-lister-analysis-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/defia...tack-accusations-as-blind-and-futile-comments

Maybe if the Saudis stop terrorizing the area this won't happen again. Having religious enemies for neighbors in the 21st century is infantile or neanderthal or both.

 

[76-1]

This isn't the 70s. We're essentially energy independent. We have no business getting involved in this situation at this point.

At last check, China, Japan and India have a greater stake in Saudi oil exportation capablity than we do as a nation.

 

[UncleMark]

At last check, China, Japan and India have a greater stake in Saudi oil exportation capablity than we do as a nation.

And those nations should be the ones involved in finding a way to resolve the discord in the area, insofar as they have the most to lose from a disruption of the flow of oil. This applies to the whole region, not just the Saudis. They should be involved in the negotiations with Iran as well.

 

[76-1]

And those nations should be the ones involved in finding a way to resolve the discord in the area, insofar as they have the most to lose from a disruption of the flow of oil. This applies to the whole region, not just the Saudis. They should be involved in the negotiations with Iran as well.

Based on recent history, the Iranians aren't exactly what one would call good faith negotiatiors...

 

[UncleMark]

Based on recent history, the Iranians aren't exactly what one would call good faith negotiatiors...

Neither are we. Maybe the Chinese, Japanese, and Indians can do better.

 

[37Hoosier]

Based on recent history, the Iranians aren't exactly what one would call good faith negotiatiors...

They would look like Jesus at the table compared to the clown ass running the show for us....his entire life is a lie

 

[mainway_toys]

Is this the operation that gets Trump to sign on with a war against Iran? IMO it will almost guarantee a second term.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middleeast/saudi-oil-attack-lister-analysis-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/defia...tack-accusations-as-blind-and-futile-comments

Is this the operation that gets Trump to sign on with a war against Iran? IMO it will almost guarantee a second term.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middleeast/saudi-oil-attack-lister-analysis-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/defia...tack-accusations-as-blind-and-futile-comments

Why would an Americans, already sick of two endless wars in the Middle East reward Trump for getting us into a third? Why would Americans want to retain a half-wit "leader" in a time of crisis?

Unless you're talking about Republicans trying to use "wartime" as an excuse to call off the the election....?

 

[meridian]

Why would an Americans, already sick of two endless wars in the Middle East reward Trump for getting us into a third? Why would Americans want to retain a half-wit "leader" in a time of crisis?

Unless you're talking about Republicans trying to use "wartime" as an excuse to call off the election....?

I would say that is a good excuse, and our beloved president is certainly capable of doing it. After all, he tried to coerce OSHA (or was it NASA?) scientists to falsify scientific data, to say that the Hurricane Dorian would pass Alabama, and that was not even an important matter.

 

[mainway_toys]

I would say that is a good excuse, and our beloved president is certainly capable of doing it. After all, he tried to coerce OSHA (or was it NASA?) scientists to falsify scientific data, to say that the Hurricane Dorian would pass Alabama, and that was not even an important matter.

It would be a laughably horrible excuse. As excuses go, it'd rank right up there with "My dog ate my homework."

That said, it's probably the best excuse they can muster. If it takes WWIII for him to hold onto power, then that's what he'll do. His ego demands it, and the toadies he's surrounded himself with won't lift a finger to stop him.

 

[sglowrider]

At least he tells it how it is....

The President of the United States is taking orders from MBS on how to respond.



But Obama .....

 

[37Hoosier]

At least he tells it how it is....

View embedded media

The President of the United States is taking orders from MBS on how to respond.



But Obama .....

View embedded media

Oh goody, not only does he treat the military like his personal pawns, now we can hire our military out as mercenaries .... where are the boards patriots to respond? ...crickets

 

[sglowrider]

Oh goody, not only does he treat the military like his personal pawns, now we can hire our military out as mercenaries .... where are the boards patriots to respond? ...crickets

Fitting that the modern US is more loyal to the country that bore most of the 9/11 hijackers than they are to most of their own citizens.

Never has “9/11 never forget” been a more ironic statement.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The question of who to blame should go before the UN. The UN can decide a response, and the US can be part of the international response.

 

[twenty02]

The question of who to blame should go before the UN. The UN can decide a response, and the US can be part of the international response.

The UN? LOL

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The UN? LOL

Why? One of Iran's allies is Russia. If there is valid evidence Iran was involved, Russia would either have to let the motion go through which should damage their relationship with Iran or veto it damaging their relationship with almost everyone else. I fail to see a downside to us or an upside to Russia.

* Edit change and to or in last sentence

 

[toastedbread]

Why should “we”respond to anything at all? The Saudis are hardly our allies, the Israelis would sell us in a heartbeat for their own gain....the Iranians would love to see us blunder into another unwinnable war behind this clown president .... for what? To whose gain? To “win” what exactly?

Agree with the first part, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Seizures of international ships, attacks against international ships, now an attack on 10% of the world's oil supply. The latter is a worldwide problem. If you don't draw a line in the sand now, this will continue to escalate. The guards will push their luck until they hit a wall. We might be directly in their crosshairs next. You respond proportionally and hopefully put an end to this now. Imo, by doing nothing, you create the potential for a potentially far larger conflict.

 

[twenty02]

Why? One of Iran's allies is Russia. If there is valid evidence Iran was involved, Russia would either have to let the motion go through which should damage their relationship with Iran or veto it damaging their relationship with almost everyone else. I fail to see a downside to us or an upside to Russia.

* Edit change and to or in last sentence

That's all fine and well, but Russia and China aren't going to ever go along with anything that implicates Iran.

 

[toastedbread]

Based solely on your previous posts in regard to the United States military I very highly doubt you have any unique knowledge of its capabilities...

You don't need a PHd from nat def U to read publically available intel.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...5-stealth-fighters-had-violated-iran-airspace

Moreover, you don't even need manned aircraft for the type of operation necessary to send a message.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

That's all fine and well, but Russia and China aren't going to ever go along with anything that implicates Iran.

That's ok. China is a different story, their foreign policy is becoming too good. The way they are handing out loans and building goodwill is amazing. But Russia doesn't have that going for them. IF the evidence is real and good, force Russia into a veto. We can still rely on any existing treaties with Saudi Arabia after.

The problem with us is that we lost the art of playing politics. We got used to just threatening with a club. It is what Germany relied on twice and look what it got them (the first time was more by mistake like our current situation, the second was by design). We need to excel at the political game.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

They would look like Jesus at the table compared to the clown ass running the show for us....his entire life is a lie

That's because he isn't going to fold when we have the upper hand like the previous President. We had their economy in literal turmoil and took the foot off the pedal, strengthening the status of the conservative regime.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

That's ok. China is a different story, their foreign policy is becoming too good. The way they are handing out loans and building goodwill is amazing. But Russia doesn't have that going for them. IF the evidence is real and good, force Russia into a veto. We can still rely on any existing treaties with Saudi Arabia after.

The problem with us is that we lost the art of playing politics. We got used to just threatening with a club. It is what Germany relied on twice and look what it got them (the first time was more by mistake like our current situation, the second was by design). We need to excel at the political game.

The most ironic part of all of this is the U.S. is going to fare far better than China if there is a disruption in supply of oil. We are now the world's largest crude producer and if the trajectories stay the course, will be the largest exporter of crude products.

 

[UncleMark]

Tulsi Gabbard Rips Trump on Iran Threats: Acting Like ‘Saudi Arabia’s B*tch is Not America First’

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2...like-saudi-arabias-btch-is-not-america-first/

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Tulsi Gabbard Rips Trump on Iran Threats: Acting Like ‘Saudi Arabia’s B*tch is Not America First’

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2...like-saudi-arabias-btch-is-not-america-first/

I agree with this. Regardless of this specific issue, we need to stop thinking of Saudi like an ally and more of an acquaintance. I'm not sure why so many gave them a pass on Wahhabism.

 

[Stuffshot]

That's because he isn't going to fold when we have the upper hand like the previous President. We had their economy in literal turmoil and took the foot off the pedal, strengthening the status of the conservative regime.

You say "he isn't going to fold when we have the upper hand."

Seriously? Trump's already backed down from many of his beltbuckle-shaking threats. No reason to think he won't back down again.

 

[37Hoosier]

That's because he isn't going to fold when we have the upper hand like the previous President. We had their economy in literal turmoil and took the foot off the pedal, strengthening the status of the conservative regime.

Lol, if you believe our idiot president can stay focused you are dreaming. You are joking, right? Lol

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The most ironic part of all of this is the U.S. is going to fare far better than China if there is a disruption in supply of oil. We are now the world's largest crude producer and if the trajectories stay the course, will be the largest exporter of crude products.

But not ironic is what Russia stands to gain. If Iran is involved, I doubt we can prove Russia greenlit the attack. But it is deep in the realm of possibility.