Arm the Teachers Says Parkland Panel
- Thread starter HillzHoozier
- Start date
Let me ask this, if we put 10,000 armed teachers in schools, how many accidental gun deaths can we expect in a year?
I can't answer that. I would guess the number would amount to fewer than the number of deaths caused at Parkland.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’ll be wishing law enforcement officers that are first responders to the next mass shooting the very best of luck in figuring out who the shooter is versus the Rambo teachers. Or have you not yet reached that second level of thought?
Did we not just see that in Atlanta, the police saw someone with a gun and shot him? Turns out he was trying to help?
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
If you’re referring to that bouncer case, then yes. I don’t recall where that was exactly.
There are lots of gun nut tough guys out there and on here that have (thankfully) never experienced the fog of battle. When you’re in a gunfight and the guy shooting isn’t wearing your uniform, he’s a target. Period. The smartest of the teachers will refuse to carry the guns.
Last edited by a moderator:
Less than .5, given the accidental gun death rate of 5 per 100,000 gun owners (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-accidental-gun-deaths-20180101-story.html?outputType=amp ) and the fact that many, maybe most, of those gun owners aren’t professionally trained and certified.
I bet if every teacher carried a gun on their hip it would be a helluva long time before we heard of another school shooting. They wouldn't even have to be loaded. Not all of them. Anyway, not my study. Take it up with the panel.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
AZ is, with very few teachers armed, we had 3 accidental shootings in one week. One teacher was a certified instructor,
Your sailors were not armed on ship were they? If not, why not ave every sailor carrying?
Nope. Just seems like an obvious step among others to mitigate our current societal reality. Tjw volunteers would be trained and willing. I think about that teacher who died standing between the students and the shooter, and what might've been if he had been armed. Have you gotten to that level of thinking yet
?Heard in a podcast recently that gun death were 8x in stand your ground states. Turns out being a carry tough guy often times gets you shot.
As always, the answer to lessening gun deaths is never, ever more guns.
As always, the answer to lessening gun deaths is never, ever more guns.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’m way past that level of thinking because I understand what a semi-auto long rifle does to the human body. And I know that a coach having a pea shooter pistol only has a marginally improved chance to survive than without the pea shooter.Nope. Just seems like an obvious step among others to mitigate our current societal reality. Tjw volunteers would be trained and willing. I think about that teacher who died standing between the students and the shooter, and what might've been if he had been armed. Have you gotten to that level of thinking yet
Note that the lacks of guns for teachers is t what got us to this point. It’s the “more guns” and “guns, guns everywhere” that got us to this point. Your line of thinking IS the problem, not a solution.
I read the article and don't see the gun death rate of 5 per 100,000 gun owners. The article states something else entirely...the expected accidental gun death of 5 per 100,000 people. Not really informative at all about the additional risk from adding 10,000 more guns into the system. Moreover, the risk from guns is principally suicide and homicide.
https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death
I also do not think arming teachers will stop the problem. A lot of kids that do this want to die. I have seen no evidence the Columbine shooters had any plans to escape. Now maybe armed teachers will reduce the victims. Of course if they fire and miss, they may in occasion add to the total.
I'm not a gun owner. I'm doing my part. Say, if you could ask that gym teacher what he thinks of a marginally improved survival rate, do you reckon he'd take it?
Then why don't they walk into police precincts to pull their rifles and just get it over with?
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
A watched pot never boils.
I can say dumb shit that doesn’t mean anything too.
Not sure why this is even a discussion. People need to stop watching Hollywood movies and think they are all superheroes when called upon.
If people can get the yips in a friendly round of golf, christ on a stick, imagine it when folks are shooting at you?
Or look at IU free throw shooting problem -- I bet they all shoot at 95-99% at practice or even the folks complaining that the players are useless but after running around like hell in a game or under the pressure of 17,000 folks, they 'yip' it.
I really dont know why this is so difficult to anticipate or project forward. Only a few of us here have been shot at/back and had to react -- and they were highly trained. The rest of us only watch it on TV/cinema or play it on video games.
Mind-boggling the level of self-awareness.
If people can get the yips in a friendly round of golf, christ on a stick, imagine it when folks are shooting at you?
Or look at IU free throw shooting problem -- I bet they all shoot at 95-99% at practice or even the folks complaining that the players are useless but after running around like hell in a game or under the pressure of 17,000 folks, they 'yip' it.
I really dont know why this is so difficult to anticipate or project forward. Only a few of us here have been shot at/back and had to react -- and they were highly trained. The rest of us only watch it on TV/cinema or play it on video games.
Mind-boggling the level of self-awareness.
It seems many have a perceived slight against other kids or the school. We do not see many 45 year olds shoot up a school.
I agree the psychology is complicated. The principal at my Catholic grade school hung her paddle by a nail on the wall behind her desk. It was legendary, made of wood with holes drilled in it, presumably for aerodynamics.
She hardly ever used it.
Did you notice I didn't advocate a position? All I did was introduce some statistics in direct response to how many accidental deaths might come from 10,000 armed teachers. Shouldn't we all delve into the facts before jumping into supporting or opposing a particular policy or emotionally responding to such policy - one way or the other?Et Tu, Aloha? I have thought better of you!
Last edited:
This is an absolutely ridiculous idea.
I would entertain the idea of well-trained, dedicated, uniformed armed security personnel / police on site in schools. Or maybe more staff in those schools who have guards already. But the idea of expecting teachers to be responsible for a loaded weapon at all times in their classroom full of 20-30 or more kids is beyond realistic and asking for trouble. There are so many unforeseen situations that could and would arise with that.
And in the case of an active shooter situation, the teacher should be focusing 100% of their attention on safely removing their class from eminent danger, or if that's not possible, getting them all in a defensive posture and keeping them calm. Not playing John Wayne.
I would entertain the idea of well-trained, dedicated, uniformed armed security personnel / police on site in schools. Or maybe more staff in those schools who have guards already. But the idea of expecting teachers to be responsible for a loaded weapon at all times in their classroom full of 20-30 or more kids is beyond realistic and asking for trouble. There are so many unforeseen situations that could and would arise with that.
And in the case of an active shooter situation, the teacher should be focusing 100% of their attention on safely removing their class from eminent danger, or if that's not possible, getting them all in a defensive posture and keeping them calm. Not playing John Wayne.
I was responding to the poster's question about "accidental gun deaths" and extrapolating from the article's statistic of 5 per 100,000 gun owners to come up with .5 per 10,000 armed teachers. In fact, I misread it and the rate was only for one age group and it's lower for others. It's just a statistic which should be known before throwing unsupported guesses. Once again, I'm not advocating for or against this in this thread, but I will take the statistics into my consideration. I could just say what has been said by one of our posters (and I paraphrase) - "Do you live in Parkland, if not, why is it your business?
I responded to your question concerning accidental deaths with a statistic that suggests the answer is less than .5 per year.
As for your other question about my ships - not every Sailor was armed all the time, but I had some Sailors armed all the time. Which is more analogous to arming some teachers. Never had an accidental death or even an accidental discharge over more than 12 years on those ships.
When in Iraq and Afghanistan (for about two months total, unlike Ranger, Bing and others I know who have many months or years there), I was armed nearly 100% of the time as was every other military person at the FOBs we stayed at (we didn't have to wear a sidearm when in they gym working out or sleeping). No accidental deaths there while I was there, but I'd guess there were some during all the years we've been there. I'd have to look that up to see the actual stats to know though.
Last edited:
It isn’t 5 per 100000 gun owners. But I am all for adding statistics. The question of how many additional deaths from 10000 more guns is hard to answer. Couldn’t find a clean answer for you. Maybe someone else can do better.I was responding to the poster's question about "accidental gun deaths" and extrapolating from the article's statistic of 5 per 100,000 gun owners to come up with .5 per 10,000 armed teachers. In fact, I misread it and the rate was only for one age group and it's lower for others. It's just a statistic which should be known before throwing unsupported guesses. Once again, I'm not advocating for or against this in this thread, but I will take the statistics into my consideration. I could just say what has been said by one of our posters (and I paraphrase) - "Do you live in Parkland, if not, why is it your business?
Wrong question. Here ye go - if we put ENOUGH fully and properly trained and armed, willingly volunteering teachers, school employees, administrators and non-certificated school employees how many accidental gun deaths can we expect in a year? We SHOULD expect zero and prepare people to be able to make that happen. Some of those who hate the rights acknowledged by the 2nd Amendment hope for lots of them. Its their agenda.
More guns is the answer? How about less guns? I don't trust many to properly operate a vehicle, let alone guns. Since teachers are always mentally stable individuals: can't wait for the first teacher school shooting....
https://www.theindychannel.com/news...er-suicide-identified-as-hamilton-co-teachers
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’m not concerned about “accidental death” by a gun going off on somebody’s hip. That’s very unlikely. What is very likely, in an active shooter situation, is a cop drilling everybody he sees with a gun. Also, kids getting shot in two way cross fires during a gun fight is quite possible.
The biggest issue is that most wanna be’s do not understand the lethality of taking a pistol to a semi-auto long gun fight. That long gun can put a high energy round on a gnat’s ass from a distance and a pistol is nearly worthless at range and against a shooter wearing armor. The shooter will be able to suppress a teacher with a pistol and any rounds the teacher gets off will be poorly aimed and can cause immense collateral damage.
Absolutely. In fact, If I'm not mistaken, the probability is higher of the good guy killing a friend rather than the foe.
Once they get in confined spaces, the equation changes, and neither one of us knows what the situation will be in one of these situations. One thing I'm always confused about is why some people think that a bad guy with a gun is always better with handling his/her gun than the good guy with a gun. You didn't say that explicitly, but many have said it explicitly and implicitly.
Who said always? There might be a former swat member in the classroom.
A couple of points:
1. They have the advantage of ambush. They are executing a planned mission with the intent to kill. The good guy might not have their bearings set before they are directly under fire.
2. Many of these creeps engage in significant practice and training prior to their rampages. I imagine your average classroom gun carrier will be someone who attended a 3 hour concealed carry class. That doesn't cut it.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
If you mean a small classroom as a confined space then ok. A hallway is not a confined space and shooting down the long axis of a hallway with a long gun with 30 rounds is essentially like having a spear against a guy armed with a flyswatter.
Its funny how many times this gun control/shooting and their associated discussion points get regurgitated. Must be every two months.
Outside the US, folks rarely talk about this topic unless its about the US' regular mass shootings. No reason to. I am pretty sure that lunar/solar eclipses are talked about more than gun rights or shootings.
Outside the US, folks rarely talk about this topic unless its about the US' regular mass shootings. No reason to. I am pretty sure that lunar/solar eclipses are talked about more than gun rights or shootings.
Similar threads
