An uninspiring hire has produced uninspired results - OPINION

[Seyton]

5 months later and things are looking better.
Bless your heart!

You're right, ORG. To Mike's credit he had assembled a hell of a roster. Top to bottom, on paper, this the most talented roster since the early 90s. I'm extremely excited about the roster. Now I just need to see how we play. The point in my original post about the trend with Woodson stands until it's disproved. Given my excitement regarding the the roster I'm cautiously optimistic that it would be hard to not be very good this year (25+ wins objectively or, if not, subjectively the basketball we play).

 

[BA47591]

This season should be great. However the future won't resemble anything that looked like RMK greatness. In state recruits will have to be McDonald's all Americans on order to be on the "real radar" and there will be a turnstile of players coming for money and the learning of NBA concepts and terminologies. Classes like Moreno, Sisley andMullins aren't really what Woody is looking. Haralson, Ament, Brown and Tiller fit his agenda. I think we can achieve a high level of success as we move forward but how special will IU be?

RMK was the blue in the IU blood.

 

[Willdog7]

This season should be great. However the future won't resemble anything that looked like RMK greatness. In state recruits will have to be McDonald's all Americans on order to be on the "real radar" and there will be a turnstile of players coming for money and the learning of NBA concepts and terminologies. Classes like Moreno, Sisley andMullins aren't really what Woody is looking. Haralson, Ament, Brown and Tiller fit his agenda. I think we can achieve a high level of success as we move forward but how special will IU be?

RMK was the blue in the IU blood.

How do you know? You make it seem like, CMW only wants the black guys. Your premise is totally wrong. CMW wants the best players, who want to come to IU.

 

[TR32]

Top to bottom, on paper, this the most talented roster since the early 90s. I'm extremely excited about the roster. Now I just need to see how we play. The point in my original post about the trend with Woodson stands until it's disproved. Given my excitement regarding the the roster I'm cautiously optimistic that it would be hard to not be very good this year

the most talented roster since the early 90's? No way.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

the most talented roster since the early 90's? No way.

At least since Crean, which isn't saying a ton I guess.

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

Take it from someone who's seen DePaul's fall from the 70s and 80s. Once you start sliding you better fight to the death for the results you once had and expected.

I've been one to point out that during Knight's tenure it wasn't just a straight line across in terms of 25-win seasons, which were much more impressive back then. It was mostly on a three- and four-year cycle to elite.

Now? We are 259-249 in the conference in the last 30 years. We've had single digit losses in a season only four times during that span.

People who are reasonably old, like 40 years old, have never seen what people only 10 years older, like me (OK, 11) saw and people 15-20 years older saw consistently. Now, it seems the majority of people are saying the tournament is good enough. As in, "Woody got us to the tournament two years in a row." He was 21-14 and 23-12 in those years.

That is awful. Yet, that's good to too many people.

The standard is the standard - until it's not. This is what the IU admin simply has not understood during their 30-year walk in the wilderness.

It's almost gone. The last 10 years? 192-135. 93-96 in the conference. It's such that a lot of people think that now we need patience in getting back to... what exactly?

No, we need urgency. Urgency to get back to standards and levels that, unfortunately, an ever-shrinking pool of supporters remember, aspire to and demand.

I don't think people really understand how far away we are and how long it's been. It's not a matter of, "We better fix this before we lose it". It's, "It's gone - and we need to get it back."

Woodson's not the answer. X isn't the missing piece. It's a little bit better version of Mike Davis. It's a little bit better version than Archie. We all know it. Not just because of the record but because of the basketball we see. The horrible IQ and lack of fundamentals consistently not corrected. Horrible scheme and philosophy. Idiot subbing patterns until the media calls get too loud. Idiot decision making in the auto-benchings, again, until the media calls get too loud. The roster totally devoid of any meaningful guards, point and shooting. Bad basketball. Bad roster. Meet the new guy. Same as the old guy.

It's bad. We know it's bad. Fix it. Now. Why wait? Wait for what? 19-13? 15-16? Is there a difference? Bad basketball. Bad roster. Meet the new guy. Same as the old guy.

zzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzz

 

[kkott]

At least since Crean, which isn't saying a ton I guess.

You guys are high; did you forget 2013? We were ranked #1 more than any other team that year, won the B10 regular season and were a #1 seed. Not sure if we started the season ranked #1, but I think we did, or got there pretty quickly because I think the Butler loss knocked us off #1.

Now, I could see a world where this team might be better, but no one would say that going in to the season. I think we started that year at #1, but if not, I'd assume top 5 and this year the early rankings for us I've seen have us around 15-20. I think this could be a really, really good team but it's not the best in recent memory, nor that Crean had.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

You guys are high; did you forget 2013? We were ranked #1 more than any other team that year, won the B10 regular season and were a #1 seed. Not sure if we started the season ranked #1, but I think we did, or got there pretty quickly because I think the Butler loss knocked us off #1.

Now, I could see a world where this team might be better, but no one would say that going in to the season. I think we started that year at #1, but if not, I'd assume top 5 and this year the early rankings for us I've seen have us around 15-20. I think this could be a really, really good team but it's not the best in recent memory, nor that Crean had.

That's why I said since crean. That team had 2 top 5 draft picks.

 

[kkott]

That's why I said since crean. That team had 2 top 5 draft picks.

My bad, I thought you were including Crean teams. No doubt the best collection of talent on paper since then!

 

[steelyvan]

plz remind me, besides Cupps, who is (or are) our legit pure point guards?

 

[bsmitty08]

plz remind me, besides Cupps, who is (or are) our legit pure point guards?

Rice

 

[kkott]

plz remind me, besides Cupps, who is (or are) our legit pure point guards?

From all reports, Rice appears to be the primary PG and ball handler. I think really both he and Carlyle played point for their teams last year. I think they also played on the same AAU team, so assumed Rice was 1 and Carlyle 2. In their highlights Rice looks like a PG to me. Quickest guy I've seen with the ball as a Hoosier since Yogi, I thought.

 

[T.M.P.]

plz remind me, besides Cupps, who is (or are) our legit pure point guards?

What a dumb question ..

 

[RunninRichie]

This season should be great. However the future won't resemble anything that looked like RMK greatness. In state recruits will have to be McDonald's all Americans on order to be on the "real radar" and there will be a turnstile of players coming for money and the learning of NBA concepts and terminologies. Classes like Moreno, Sisley andMullins aren't really what Woody is looking. Haralson, Ament, Brown and Tiller fit his agenda. I think we can achieve a high level of success as we move forward but how special will IU be?

RMK was the blue in the IU blood.

Yall are starting to come around.

 

[steelyvan]

What a dumb question ..

my point being we are entering another season with one quality pg. one that is untested in the B10.

 

[Seyton]

the most talented roster since the early 90's? No way.

Which ones were better?

 

[T.M.P.]

Which ones were better?

The answer is too obvious to answer.

 

[DCDAVID]

my point being we are entering another season with one quality pg. one that is untested in the B10.

Rice was PAC 12 freshman of the year and 1st team all PAC 12. Trey can play a little 1 and we also have a year older Cupps. Much better situation than last year.

 

[TR32]

my point being we are entering another season with one quality pg. one that is untested in the B10.

You don't have to have a pure pg to succeed if you have a few who can share the duties. That is what they have this year. I'm more concerned about having some semblance of offensive movement than I am about the PG responsibilities.

Rice, Galloway, Cupps and Carlyle all have handles enough.

 

[steelyvan]

guys, your optimism is at a higher level than mine, which I appreciate. I won't use the "I" word but we are at risk.

 

[Seyton]

@TR32 @T.M.P.

Late 90s. My bad.

 

[T.M.P.]

@TR32 @T.M.P.

Late 90s. My bad.

2013.

*eyeroll*

 

[ulrey]

2013.

*eyeroll*

What grown men does a eyeroll?

 

[Blimpy]

Rice was PAC 12 freshman of the year and 1st team all PAC 12. Trey can play a little 1 and we also have a year older Cupps. Much better situation than last year.

PAC 12 was the worst P5 conference, take Arizonia out and that conference does not make the top 10!

 

[Willdog7]

PAC 12 was the worst P5 conference, take Arizonia out and that conference does not make the top 10!

Could you be positive. The season has not started yet?

 

[ulrey]

Could you be positive. The season has not started yet?

Facts?

 

[Tammany Hall]

Could you be positive. The season has not started yet?

Blimpy is a Purdue troll.

 

[Seyton]

2013.

*eyeroll*

Top to bottom not even close in my opinion.

 

[T.M.P.]

Top to bottom not even close in my opinion.

Two lottery picks, two all Americans, three all conference players, preseason #1.

Not close?

 

[kkott]

guys, your optimism is at a higher level than mine, which I appreciate. I won't use the "I" word but we are at risk.

Anyone can say that about any season with newcomers: it may not work, they might not gel, injury... You really can't get more "proven" than PAC10 FOY... The biggest and most relevant questions this year aren't about the roster.

 

[steelyvan]

Anyone can say that about any season with newcomers: it may not work, they might not gel, injury... You really can't get more "proven" than PAC10 FOY... The biggest and most relevant questions this year aren't about the roster.

Rice should be fine. My question is what happens when he comes out of the game?
What are your biggest questions for the season?

 

[kkott]

Rice should be fine. My question is what happens when he comes out of the game?
What are your biggest questions for the season?

when he comes out of the game, we've got Carlyle, Galloway and a 2nd year Cupps. Last year we had an injured starting PG backed up by a true freshman. We are in way, way better shape at the PG spot.

My questions are all about CMW. Don't get why his teams have struggled defensively, his insistence on playing 2 bigs and an effective modern offensive system. If Sleepers are to be believed, Woody is spending a ton of time on the golf course. Very interested to see how Lville and UM fare under new coaches; either of which we likely could've had. I think this roster will keep him off the hot seat, but I think this roster should win the B10 and get at least to a S16, and after last year, I think that should be expectation, but I don't see many who share my beliefs.

 

[IndyResident16]

Rice should be fine. My question is what happens when he comes out of the game?
What are your biggest questions for the season?

If Cupps/Galloway/Carlisle can't manage 10-12 mpg of PG duty between the three them, then yeah we have issues. I don't foresee that being a problem though.

Biggest question (and it's singular) by far and away is how the staff manages the front court. If Woodson is hell bent on playing Reneau and Ballo simultaneously at the 4 and 5 for long stretches of the game, this team will never reach it's ceiling. Reneau and Ballo need to be platooning at the 5 most of the time with Goode and Mgbako spreading the floor at the 4.

 

[Seyton]

Two lottery picks, two all Americans, three all conference players, preseason #1.

Not close?

So three players made the entire roster, top to bottom, better? That's what you're saying?

 

[BA47591]

I listened to a recent Josh Schertz interview today. Very refreshing. It's on the Field of 68 podcasts Off the Carousel series if anyone is interested.

If you want to look at IU basketball as a professional team The Cook Group is the owner and Pete Yonkman is the President and GM. Woody has been given the financial support from the wealthiest family in the state to achieve at a high level. Firing a legacy guy and then turning around and doubling the NIL for someone else isnt a good look so Woody has his shot. Woody has brought in immediate impact players and will continue to do so unless he doesnt check the boxes. There is an evolution stylistically happening. The Mullins family was recently told that the offense is rapidly transitioning to a guard/perimeter concept offense. Now with Ballo and Reneau together I don't know if I totally believe that.

 

[T.M.P.]

So three players made the entire roster, top to bottom, better? That's what you're saying?

Yes.

 

[Jssanto]

Take it from someone who's seen DePaul's fall from the 70s and 80s. Once you start sliding you better fight to the death for the results you once had and expected.

I've been one to point out that during Knight's tenure it wasn't just a straight line across in terms of 25-win seasons, which were much more impressive back then. It was mostly on a three- and four-year cycle to elite.

Now? We are 259-249 in the conference in the last 30 years. We've had single digit losses in a season only four times during that span.

People who are reasonably old, like 40 years old, have never seen what people only 10 years older, like me (OK, 11) saw and people 15-20 years older saw consistently. Now, it seems the majority of people are saying the tournament is good enough. As in, "Woody got us to the tournament two years in a row." He was 21-14 and 23-12 in those years.

That is awful. Yet, that's good to too many people.

The standard is the standard - until it's not. This is what the IU admin simply has not understood during their 30-year walk in the wilderness.

It's almost gone. The last 10 years? 192-135. 93-96 in the conference. It's such that a lot of people think that now we need patience in getting back to... what exactly?

No, we need urgency. Urgency to get back to standards and levels that, unfortunately, an ever-shrinking pool of supporters remember, aspire to and demand.

I don't think people really understand how far away we are and how long it's been. It's not a matter of, "We better fix this before we lose it". It's, "It's gone - and we need to get it back."

Woodson's not the answer. X isn't the missing piece. It's a little bit better version of Mike Davis. It's a little bit better version than Archie. We all know it. Not just because of the record but because of the basketball we see. The horrible IQ and lack of fundamentals consistently not corrected. Horrible scheme and philosophy. Idiot subbing patterns until the media calls get too loud. Idiot decision making in the auto-benchings, again, until the media calls get too loud. The roster totally devoid of any meaningful guards, point and shooting. Bad basketball. Bad roster. Meet the new guy. Same as the old guy.

It's bad. We know it's bad. Fix it. Now. Why wait? Wait for what? 19-13? 15-16? Is there a difference? Bad basketball. Bad roster. Meet the new guy. Same as the old guy.

I agree completely.
But.
Unless you are the age that saw and remembers the Knight years, it could be difficult to understand.
Discipline: Steve Alford was suspended for appearing on a sorority charity calendar fully dressed wearing a sport coat. Guys caught using pot in the Alaskan tournament were off the team. Terry (need help with the last name) had a C average and Knight said he was too smart for that. Kid transferred to NC State.
I am not a Woodson fan, and I know that will be ridiculed by many/most. I did not like the absence of discipline to X and then X’s repeated issues on the court. Embarrassing as an alumni. I never played nor coached at an elite level so I cannot comment on his sub patterns or coaching skill. But I have felt arrogance with his comments in media and press.
I guess we will be good this year. The best team money can buy.

 

[BCCHoosier]

I agree completely.
But.
Unless you are the age that saw and remembers the Knight years, it could be difficult to understand.
Discipline: Steve Alford was suspended for appearing on a sorority charity calendar fully dressed wearing a sport coat. Guys caught using pot in the Alaskan tournament were off the team. Terry (need help with the last name) had a C average and Knight said he was too smart for that. Kid transferred to NC State.
I am not a Woodson fan, and I know that will be ridiculed by many/most. I did not like the absence of discipline to X and then X’s repeated issues on the court. Embarrassing as an alumni. I never played nor coached at an elite level so I cannot comment on his sub patterns or coaching skill. But I have felt arrogance with his comments in media and press.
I guess we will be good this year. The best team money can buy.

Mike Giomi is the name you are looking for I believe.

 

[Willdog7]

I agree completely.
But.
Unless you are the age that saw and remembers the Knight years, it could be difficult to understand.
Discipline: Steve Alford was suspended for appearing on a sorority charity calendar fully dressed wearing a sport coat. Guys caught using pot in the Alaskan tournament were off the team. Terry (need help with the last name) had a C average and Knight said he was too smart for that. Kid transferred to NC State.
I am not a Woodson fan, and I know that will be ridiculed by many/most. I did not like the absence of discipline to X and then X’s repeated issues on the court. Embarrassing as an alumni. I never played nor coached at an elite level so I cannot comment on his sub patterns or coaching skill. But I have felt arrogance with his comments in media and press.
I guess we will be good this year. The best team money can buy.

Just because CMW doesn't do things, the way you would does not mean it's wrong. If you do not like him its always Purdue.

 

[T.M.P.]

But I have felt arrogance with his comments in media and press.

The best team money can buy.

Sentence one: That's on you.

Sentence two: Every team in the f*cking country has bought a team. What do you want him to do find a roster that will play for free?