Allen just said Penix is the guy. No QB change.
- Thread starter ce36ei
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He may be the guy this week but if he lays another egg Allen will have make a change.
if not things could get ugly,like 4-8 or worse ugly.
From preseason top 20 to 4-8 would be a disaster for recruiting.
I think it's okay to start Mike against WKU, but if he is making the same decision making mistakes, and still not executing like 2020 Penix, they'll need to reevaluate, I think publicly he should exude confidence, but internally both him and Sheridan know that Mike's job is not as safe as it was 4 weeks ago.
This would be the perfect game to see what Tuttle can do. We know what Mike is at this point. He’s had his “easy” game to get back on track.
Sheridan just said at the presser the team had turnover problems in pre-season camp. So it’s nothing new apparently.
Sheridan just said at the presser the team had turnover problems in pre-season camp. So it’s nothing new apparently.
Allen is throwing the towel in on this season. No reason to watch any more games.
It's not camp anymore. We're a quarter of the way through the season. The QB is making poor decisions and throwing too many picks. I don't get it. This would be the game to get the Numbers 2 and 3 some snaps. Maybe that'll still happen, and this is just public "all is well" messaging. But, clearly, all isn't well.
You have to think this means Tuttle has been unimpressive in practice. That’s something only the coaches know.
Then give McCulley a shot. He's our highest rated QB recruit ever, and was rated by at least one service as the No. 9 dual-threat high school QB in the country. The coaches were praising him at the end of camp. Let's see what he can do.
You don't want WKU to know they should be preparing for a different QB. All smoke and mirrors.
I think it means CTA still has confidence in Penix . He has seen things in the past Penix can do that most QB's can't do so he is sticking with him. I wouldn't be surprised if he performs better against WKU but at Penn St. similar to what he has done in Iowa Cincy games. And we are back to square 1.
I'm still behind him..But not on this decision.
That is 4 -8 coming at you coach..
Penix is incapable of making the second or third reads..He possibly can get away with it against WKU...But not against the rest of the Big Ten..
That is 4 -8 coming at you coach..
Penix is incapable of making the second or third reads..He possibly can get away with it against WKU...But not against the rest of the Big Ten..
100% Penix gives us best chance to win. Gotta stay with him.
if he goes 3 and out a couple of times and we get behind, gotta send in Tuttle.
Putting in a true freshman is insane. Indy insane, like the guy telling me Reese Taylor was the best HS QB in the country and we should move him back to QB for the Cincy game.
Our problems are mental focus, not talent issues.
if he goes 3 and out a couple of times and we get behind, gotta send in Tuttle.
Putting in a true freshman is insane. Indy insane, like the guy telling me Reese Taylor was the best HS QB in the country and we should move him back to QB for the Cincy game.
Our problems are mental focus, not talent issues.
No, you just have to think they believe Penix is better and if he isn’t hurt, he starts.
don’t overthink it
Like hell it is. Many schools have started true freshmen at QB in recent years including Arizona State, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, LSU, Tennessee and Mississippi State. And this is not some circa 2008 IU football recruit. The kid's a 4-star and, as I said earlier, IU's highest rated quarterback recruit ever. He's athletic and mobile. We really need that right now.
And I'm not arguing that he should necessarily start, but he should get some playing time with an opponent like Western Kentucky. Let him get his feet wet in that kind of an environment before potentially being thrown to the wolves - - perhaps out of necessity - - on a whiteout night in Happy Valley, or in a game at Ann Arbor.
Those schools who put in the freshman - who did they replace?
Picking a freshman in Spring or after a starter leaves is one thing.
Benching your 4 star starter for a freshman after losing to a Top 5 and a Top 10 team sounds like unwise panic.
If you're afraid to tip you hand against a team like WKU, there are bigger issues than what we're seeing.
Allen isn't coming out and giving a full bode of confidence to Penix to throw WKU off that Tuttle may play.
I don't follow recruiting or practices. I havent a clue how good Mculley is relative to Penix or Tuttle. What I do know as that at least since Bill Lynch, IU has continually deferred to seniority over talent, particularly on defense, and it has killed them time and again. I don't know if it reflects the personality of the head coaches, but IU is generally very conservative when it comes to getting youngsters on the field.
Alabama benched Jalen Hurts in the championship game for Tua. Clemson benched a QB who went 19-2 there (Kelly Bryant) in the middle of the season for Trevor Lawrence. Both years the team won the national championship that year. Although it was an injury that led to the decision, I can't help but remember Kellen Lewis giving us a spark in 2006.
I agree with you that the coaching staff is playing who they believe gives them the best chance to win. They don't have a job if they don't win. They see what these players do on a daily basis in practice, as well as what goes on in the film room, weight room, locker room. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for a head coach to watch their players make the plays in practice, only for them to fumble in the red zone, not get the yard on a QB sneak, throw an unnecessary INT, etc.
Several were mid-season replacements.
Let's forget MP's medical history for a second, and look back at some of IU's QBs over the last 10 years. Tre Roberson suffered a season-ending injury. Nate Sudfeld suffered a season-ending injury. Chris Covington, Sudfeld's replacement, suffered a season-ending injury in his first game. Peyton Ramsey left the Maryland game a few years back with an injury. Jack Tuttle sustained a separated shoulder in his second start for IU this past January in Tampa.
I think it's likely this kid (McCulley) plays this season, like it or not. Let him get his feet wet, and let the coaches see what he can do, at Western Kentucky. As I said above, that kind of a debut is preferable, for a whole host of reasons, to a Big Ten road game.
Fryfogle is the one that needs benched. He had several drops including that near perfect bomb Penix threw right on his hands. He is dropping himself out of being drafted the way he has played
If true, how sad it that, needing smoke and mirrors of deceit against a team the caliber of a Western KY.
That 4 year starter is making freshman mistakes.
My position is that you start Tuttle against WKU, if for no other reason Penix needs to see the game from a different perspective (sideline), to see what works and doesn't and then see if it improves His decision making. I would give McCulley some time late in the game if We are substantially ahead and in control. One of the mistakes Coaches make with the 4 game Redshirt Rule is to save all the playing time until late in the Season.
With Penix injury history, I think it is important to get Him some time and experience now. He is two injuries away from being on the field anyway. I don't want to risk getting to late in the season with both Penix and Tuttle injured, and having to throw Him in cold with no experience.
With Penix injury history, I think it is important to get Him some time and experience now. He is two injuries away from being on the field anyway. I don't want to risk getting to late in the season with both Penix and Tuttle injured, and having to throw Him in cold with no experience.
Yes, it looks as though Penix's dual-threat days are over. Penix is now one dimensional and he's a fish out of water being strictly a drop back passer, hence the poor decision making and errant throws. I also think a Tom Allen coached team works better with a dual-threat QB.
Look, this is game four, and this is the weakest opponent left on the schedule. With Michael's track record and what he's done in previous years, it isn't fair to pull the plug on him yet, and considering how much of a leader he seems to be, doing so could be a huge blow to team unity and morale.
What they need to do is, unlike the Idaho game where they basically just wasted the chance to get him right, is have Michael air it out from the opening kickoff against WKU and make clear to him before the game that is the plan and it will be on him. See how he looks and see what he produces. If he doesn't turn the ball over and throws for good yardage and a few TDs, with a completion percentage closer to what he managed in his previous years, great! He's starting to figure things out and get back into the flow, the ideal scenario!
But if he struggles again, it starts to be time for a change, not just for the team's sake, but for his own. If he still struggles it will be clear the team needs better, but might be a sign that he needs a reset himself, too. He's got one more year of availability left after this, and who knows, his issues (regardless of whether or not they persist) could just be that he wasn't as ready as they thought he was to play this year; it was a pretty fast rebound from an ACL, after all. Maybe you sit him for the year and have him work exclusively on ensuring his body is right and in peak condition for the rest of the year and through next offseason, and he comes into camp next year looking like the Penix of old, or even better than that.
At any rate, the team needs him at his peak too much to throw away the chance of him finding it this early in the year.
What they need to do is, unlike the Idaho game where they basically just wasted the chance to get him right, is have Michael air it out from the opening kickoff against WKU and make clear to him before the game that is the plan and it will be on him. See how he looks and see what he produces. If he doesn't turn the ball over and throws for good yardage and a few TDs, with a completion percentage closer to what he managed in his previous years, great! He's starting to figure things out and get back into the flow, the ideal scenario!
But if he struggles again, it starts to be time for a change, not just for the team's sake, but for his own. If he still struggles it will be clear the team needs better, but might be a sign that he needs a reset himself, too. He's got one more year of availability left after this, and who knows, his issues (regardless of whether or not they persist) could just be that he wasn't as ready as they thought he was to play this year; it was a pretty fast rebound from an ACL, after all. Maybe you sit him for the year and have him work exclusively on ensuring his body is right and in peak condition for the rest of the year and through next offseason, and he comes into camp next year looking like the Penix of old, or even better than that.
At any rate, the team needs him at his peak too much to throw away the chance of him finding it this early in the year.
The only issue with that is if you do need to switch QBs, then you are putting them in the fire right off the bat with no warm up game.
So "insane", you mean like when Alabama and Clemson won national championships with true freshman quarterbacks?
Two thoughts,
1,When you are losing games, The backup QB becomes the most popular player on the Team (with the Fans).
2. If You stay too long with an ineffective starting QB, you eventually lose your team. Guys go to practice every day. No matter which side of the ball you are on, you know what is going on. If You don't put the best guy on the field who gives them the chance to win,they know it, and the disease spreads and affects everyone.
1,When you are losing games, The backup QB becomes the most popular player on the Team (with the Fans).
2. If You stay too long with an ineffective starting QB, you eventually lose your team. Guys go to practice every day. No matter which side of the ball you are on, you know what is going on. If You don't put the best guy on the field who gives them the chance to win,they know it, and the disease spreads and affects everyone.
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Okay, so what happens if you bench your ineffective starting quarterback and then the most popular player on the Team (with the Fans) proves to be even more ineffective? In other words, the ineffective guy WAS the best guy on the field who gives them the chance to win, not knowing what was going by the guys going to practice at the time. How does that scenario sit with your team? Do they (everyone) eventually get diseased before getting lost, too? I'm just trying to get a sense for what makes sense in what you're saying.
Penix has never been a dual threat QB. He may have been more mobile Before the injuries but he rarely ran the ball on designed run plays. He didn’t run much in high school either.
Agree with you, the problem is Penix can maybe do what he could do in the past sometimes, but probably not at the same level of proficiency and probably not without the mistakes. Right now he reminds me of Jameis Winston in his TB days (30 td throws and 30 picks in a season). No team wins with that. I think CTA is sticking with Mike out of LEO and to support him because of all the work he did to get ready for the season, but he just can't play at the level needed to avoid the mistakes and win games.
I give Penix about 2 series before something bad happens and he’s yanked at WKU. All this other stuff is simply coach-speak that has to be done for the media. He throws a pick or fumbles it, he won’t continue to play.. Allen won’t continue to do that.
I get where CTA is coming from. I hope in three or four weeks we look back and people are saying I was being too impatient. I didn't call outright for Penix to be benched but I did say it should be discussed. Not an easy decision but I was leaning towards sitting him down. We now know that's not happening so we'll see how it goes.
In the piece I wrote I went back a couple seasons for context and to show I wasn't just being reactionary due to Indiana's 1-2 record. There were some yellow flags last year. This year the flags are red.
I am hard on quarterbacks and I don't appologize for it. If a QB can't handle the scrutiy they need to find another position. Penix's play this season has been unacceptable. At times it's been cringey. Yes he's made a handful of impressive throws but for every one of those there have been two 'what the heck was that?!' throws.
My gut is that you don't really snap out of a funk like he's in without some sort of reset. I hope I'm wrong. I'm sure he'll have a decent stat line this week but I'm also sure there will be missed throws, missed reads and probably a turnover or two.
I keep asking myself if I'm being too harsh but I've seen every snap this season and I just don't accept the level of play we've seen and never will. It's nothing personal. Heck, I'm pulling for the guy. But I have to agree with some of the people on this board whom I normally consider...um malignant. Right now with this QB play we're looking at 4 or 5 wins. Can we at least 6-6 Redbox Bowl QB play? Please lol? I will be happy to eat my words later on just calling it as I currently see it.
In the piece I wrote I went back a couple seasons for context and to show I wasn't just being reactionary due to Indiana's 1-2 record. There were some yellow flags last year. This year the flags are red.
I am hard on quarterbacks and I don't appologize for it. If a QB can't handle the scrutiy they need to find another position. Penix's play this season has been unacceptable. At times it's been cringey. Yes he's made a handful of impressive throws but for every one of those there have been two 'what the heck was that?!' throws.
My gut is that you don't really snap out of a funk like he's in without some sort of reset. I hope I'm wrong. I'm sure he'll have a decent stat line this week but I'm also sure there will be missed throws, missed reads and probably a turnover or two.
I keep asking myself if I'm being too harsh but I've seen every snap this season and I just don't accept the level of play we've seen and never will. It's nothing personal. Heck, I'm pulling for the guy. But I have to agree with some of the people on this board whom I normally consider...um malignant. Right now with this QB play we're looking at 4 or 5 wins. Can we at least 6-6 Redbox Bowl QB play? Please lol? I will be happy to eat my words later on just calling it as I currently see it.
The Redbox Bowl was cancelled this year, so we cannot even stumble into that one.
