Im rubber and you’re glue....
........ you just made 76-1 and RBB Cream your Crimson...Give’em a reach around will ya George?
Allen bashing continuing...Please enough!
- Thread starter IndyIUFan66
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Im rubber and you’re glue....
........ you just made 76-1 and RBB Cream your Crimson...Give’em a reach around will ya George?
I think we are close. Now it's just a wait and see. I know we have been in this position before. Let's see how it trends.
Now I am sucked into this but only for a little bit. I love that you want to win and winning is what matters. But we are not firing our way out of the basement. Take your opinion out of the Allen hire and look at the facts.
Glass wanted to keep the recruiting class intact-check
Glass kept stability in the program instead of a complete redo-check
Glass hired someone with love of the state of Indiana-check
Glass had a $$ amount he was willing to pay and got a coach-check
We got the result that Glass was willing to give from an AD stance
NOW, use that same equation, factoring mostly of the amount of money he is willing to pay a coach (last in the B10) and where would we be if he fired Allen after not making a bowl next year???? THE SAME RESULT WE HAVE HAD FOR
YEARS!!
Allen will do the best job he can. But Glass didn't hire a name coach that will have recruits flocking to IU. So he will probably need 4 years to show what he can do. Otherwise it is completely idiotic, stupid, asinine and any other word you want to insert to
fire Allen and start all over, for another coach to come in and be paid the lowest in the conference.
Okay I'll reply as calm as I can since my "blog attitude" (its a blog cmon) makes people angry. I'm fine with CTA so if you all take from my posts that I want his head on a platter your greatly mistaken. I like the hire. Is it a gamble? Yes! Can anyone argue with that? Do I think we should have had a hiring process? I don't care that we didn't but I may eat my words in a couple years.
Could any "GREAT" coach come in here and made an immediate impact recruiting 4 and 5 star kids? I doubt it. We aren't hiring Saban or Urban, or Dabo and even if they came here they would probably go straight to Fred and say we need another 200 million for facilities and another 50 million guaranteed for coaches over the next 5 years. Yes even our current upgrade will probably fall greatly short of powerhouse teams. (I can show several examples if you want to see links).
That said all of you that have been around for years need not to consider patience or what you have been through. You need to consider kids these days. Kids want to go to a winner or team on the rise. So if Allen wants to get the kids in here make a difference he needs to make it happen now. If he doesn't produce quickly he is putting himself behind the 8 ball.
Social media folks!
These kids talk to one another and if Tom after 2 more years of losing teams (that would be 3 straight of losing years) doesn't produce what does he have to sell?
Is he doing the right things YES. The S&C change is huge! Recruiting is better, but the jury is out and unfortunately we are up against Mt. Rushmore with osu, psu, and michi that have had major recent success and huge histories. What does IU have?
I'm just trying to make strong points with my recent posts please don't take it wrong. Just laying out stats and realize that with these facilities changes we are peaking in regards to getting guys in here. If we don't capitalize whats going to happen 2 or 3 years from now?
I don't disagree with that. I think 6 wins is a must next year. The trend has to be up, pull in another good class and make the next step. 5 wins might not be fatal but 4 just might be. I think Allen is probably thinking along those same lines and is working his was off. All we can do is wait, go to the games and try to make a difference.
His leadership and managerial skills seem to be better. He seems to motivate guys to do more work and play at a higher level. Because in the end, it comes down to the PLAYERS figuring out how to perform. A good motivator is always good. Wilson’s motivation ability likely peaked at 6-7 records. I mean I can tell you that guys weren’t necessarily motivated to work at a high level, put in extra work, or stop partying. It seems like CTA is the kind of leader who actually motivates guys to not want to do that, and to get their butts in the film room/taking care of their bodies.
It’s hard to be a decent college football players. There’s a lot of work that has to go in. It’s hard to be in the film room. Like now it’s 11:25 on a Saturday, and there are guys at OSU, Alabama, Wisconsin ect who are resting their bodies, recovering from the week, and learning. They’re motivated to do so because of the environment/coaching. That’s the standard that you can tell CTA sets because of the defensive improvement. Tegray Scales transformed into a completely different man under CTA. He went from a guy who depended on athletic ability alone, to a guy who started treating his body differently, preparing at a high level, and became a leader. A bunch of guys bought in and followed, thus the defense is the best it’s been at Indiana in a long time. That is the “sign” that CTA brings of excellent leadership, in comparison to CKW. CKW was a good X’s and O’s Guy, and the best/most intense motivator IU has had in a long time. He did get the program to that 6-6 level from the college football cellar, but he wasn’t in the upper percentile as a motivator as other coaches/programs around the country. CTA seems to be in that upper percentile of motivating guys. The success that CKW has as an OC did benefit IU, but that alone is limited. There’s a special level of motivation that you have to bring to the table. If your program doesn’t have that, it will be mediocre.
I think another way to put Wilson’s motivation style is that it was probably effective when he’s there watching, but so much football prep occurs with minimal or no supervision by coaches, especially the head coach. Coaches need to find a way that the player motivates themselves.
Dog a play in a game, and Wilson would tear you a new one, but that doesn’t keep someone from slacking on off season weight reps or film study
Its over the top expectations like this that are the root of the evil. Tell me...when in IUs long history has what you expect happened? Please make it a detailed list. Cricket Cricket...whooopps...that a damn short list isn't it? Don't ask for something to happen that hasn't. It will take all 4-5 years for Allen to produce an 8 win team. Bank on it. But isn't it worth the wait???
Probably the biggest thing I noticed under Wilson was the pissed off attitude when we took the field. I mean under Wilson and I guarantee you ask any coach who had to play against IU especially 2015 and 2016 was we would punch you in the mouth. The thing I would always watch for was line play the first couple of plays from the line of scrimmage. Even against osu we were blowing guys off the ball. That carried over to the Utah bowl game...First special teams play when we whacked the Utah id and he coughed up the ball. Utah is a damn physical football team and we went toe to toe with them.
BUT not sure saw the same thing last year. Maybe these guys played under fear with CKW. All I know is we seemed to be much more physical under CKW than CTA from what I've noticed so far.
Yes. That’s an even better way to put it. With Wilson around, people were highly motivated, or at least pretended to be so. The program improved, and guys played hard.
CTA seems to take that motivation to another level. Guys are doing the right thing even when no ones watching. Probably why fewer guys are failing drug tests, better off the field behavior ect. That’s another reason why I think CTA works out long term
I would like to see the links if you don’t mind. I’d like to see how far behind we are. Thanks.
That is true, but that’s also because there were better/more physical lineman on both sides of the ball. You have to consider that Ralph green, Nick Mangeri, Latham, Hoff, and Shaw were all veterans at that point and had developed that violence. Now, you’re spot on that prior to Wilson getting there it didn’t exist to the extent that it did in 15’ and 16’, and the team did get more physical, but that was also due to having physical players who developed in the weight room. In 17’ they lost a ton of that, but it seems as if CTA still motivates the guys to play hard like Wilson did. They just have to get stronger. CTA has a different level of motivations though, because it appears as if (at least defensively), he’s making the guys committed when no ones watching. Fear is a good motivator, but not enough to gear a guy towards doing the right thing when no ones watching. Allen seems to bring a higher level of motivation. It’ll still be up to the players to improve, but even his positive stuff like “pick a word that motivates you and stick with it”, always implents it in a guys mind to work harder. That positive self talk works. The reason why the team was less physical may realistically be because these group of guys were actually less physical and need to develop in the weight room.
I look at our RBs and how hard Ellison and Gest run and you can't run harder than they do. I watch our defense and they tackle better and tougher. Our DL played hard and got after the passer better. I don't agree they are playing less physical except for our young OL. So many ignore the OL losses from 2016 and expected sophomores to step in and replace the 3 seniors [one an AA] that graduated; it just wasn't a realistic expectation.
I'm assuming your comments are about the offense, because you sure as hell can't be talking about the pre-2016 defense. IU's 2011 - 2015 defense was a lot of things (and most of those adjectives I can't use here), but "physical" wasn't one of them.
And this narrative about mental toughness and attitude in the KW era versus now seems to be pulled from thin air. I haven't seen anyone point to anything factually specific that demonstrates we were somehow tougher, more focused or more motivated then than now. Mentally tough and focused teams don't blow 25 point leads. And speaking of the 2015 Rutgers game, we had players smiling and yucking it up on the sideline when we had the big lead. And that's not just me talking. If you go back and read the media coverage following that game, you'll see that Wilson himself commented on this.
We won't be behind once the end zone is finished. My point was all these big boys keep dumping in money. Can IU keep up in the arms race?
Oregon
Okie lite
Colorado
Clemson
Theres more.
Where did I say mental toughness?
All I said was I noticed how we punched teams in the mouth harder under Wilson and it may have been through fear. BTW not disagreeing with you on the defense but even in 2015 it was like we were close. How many times would we make 2 outstanding plays on 1st and 2nd down on the defense and have a team 3rd and 20 and they popped a 1st down. There were glimpses but we could never get it done.
And for those that keep saying 4-5 years. What is Allen gonna be saying in 3 years to these kids were close but? What is he gonna have to sell after 3-4 more years of losing and what kids are gonna buy in? I'm all ears lets hear your pitch.
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My pitch would stay the same: We play Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State along with at least one other top team every year.
We are within an easy days drive of one third of the entire NFL and we are a mere 50 minute drive from the NFL Combine.
If you want the NFL scouts to see you play and to watch you workout and to look at your tape Indiana is among a select few schools who'll make it nearly certain that you'll be seen more often than most.
Throw that in with the opportunity to get a "real" degree that will serve you for the rest of your life with the kind of legal academic support that will nearly ensure you'll graduate, along with one of the most beautiful campuses on the planet..., plus a coaching staff that actually cares about you as a person... What's not to like?
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Truthfully, looking at those videos, the only difference I saw with Okie St and Colorado to what IU will have is some fancy wall art which could be on the docket (or easily added). In terms of functional space, it seems IU has just as much if not more. Also remember that locker room will get expanded and include a lounge area once the current dining area is vacated
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Hey! That's not bad. Maybe they should give you a look to help sell these kids? DWS.
What has every IU FB coach for the last 50 years had to sell? Playing time and the future. Allen is no different than every coach before him in that the challenges of coaching here just don't go away. He will figure that out or lose his job. I think he has what it takes...if we give him time. Guys like you want him fired now because he didn't fulfill your dreams of glory. We may have glory one day but it will be hard earned over time...not some "rocket" shooting into orbit. Be real please or next season you will turn on him when what he will need is your support.
Where in the world did u read one post where i said i wanted him fired now. I may not be the best with regards to my blog lingo but if thats what you got from one of my posts please show me where.
Meanwhile 3 years from now osu michi and psu will be dogging our asses for losing. Point is as you say Indiana the last 50 years...Do you want the same for the next 50 or a change?
Meanwhile 3 years from now osu michi and psu will be dogging our asses for losing. Point is as you say Indiana the last 50 years...Do you want the same for the next 50 or a change?
2 Questions: Do you stay the whole game every game? Do you go to every Spring game you can make it to?
The defensive line in 14’ and 15’ was more physical and did play more pissed off due to Wilson’s motivation. It probably got to Bobby Richardson more than anyone. They certainly got pissed off and were more physical, but were also all more experienced than the guys up front now.
Now that’s a totally different conversation from whether or not they were mentally tougher or knew which gap to be in. Which is why I said CTA seems to have extra motivational skills. Guys are actually in the film room/getting in the right spots/being locked in. I highlighted that I think the defensive line is less physical only due to youth and talent. Not because of CTA’s coaching. The last group of guys were just stronger and more gifted. That’s why Richardson and Latham got paid to play. But did Latham know where to go or end up in the right spots, or always do the right thing off the field? No. Snd that highlights the other users point that CKW’s style only seemed to motivate guys when CKW was watching.
I agree 100%. I think that the d line was definitely more physical in 15’, and that guys were motivated by anger/fear, which was CKW’s style, but no one would say the guys were in the right spots or mentally tough, or focused. Latham may be the best example of that. Although he seems to be figuring it out with the Raiders and I’m happy for him.
Here we go "fandom" check. What does it matter? I have kids in sports almost every Saturday in the fall and except winter year round. Am I supposed to be one of those dads who miss my kids games or spend the weekend (self centered) golfing while my kids are out doing their thing? I show up for my kids!
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No. Your kids should always come first.
Your golf game not so much.
You answered neither question however (unless the answer was you simply don't attend either the Spring game or any regular season games).
My implication was/is however (as I'm sure you ascertained) that if you aren't willing to even exert the absolute minimum of effort to help Indiana Football in a positive manner (such as showing up for the Spring game instead of playing golf that day, or attending at least one home game [and arriving early and staying past the end] then, at least from my point of view, you severely undermine any arguments you may present for "change" when you won't present the minimum efforts to actually help effect a positive change...
While thats well said...I have 7 kids from 30 to 6 years old and 3 granddaughters now. I don't play golf I quit. I've played maybe 5 times in 20 years. Year by year I see friends and family continue on playing and there are divorces and serious kid issues over it. It is what it is.
As far as the spring game or other games it is hard I'll be honest. I would love to get down there for games. I used to go to all the CU games years ago and loved every minute when I lived In Denver. Hopefully we can get down there and would love to see Tronti in the spring game. If theres nothing going on that weekend I would love to come down shake your hand and share a cold beverage!
While thats well said...I have 7 kids from 30 to 6 years old and 3 granddaughters now. I don't play golf I quit. I've played maybe 5 times in 20 years. Year by year I see friends and family continue on playing and there are divorces and serious kid issues over it. It is what it is.
As far as the spring game or other games it is hard I'll be honest. I would love to get down there for games. I used to go to all the CU games years ago and loved every minute when I lived In Denver. Hopefully we can get down there and would love to see Tronti in the spring game. If theres nothing going on that weekend I would love to come down shake your hand and share a cold beverage!
My bad, I misunderstood your golf reference.
I'm with you in that kids and grandkids always come first.
Hopefully we'll both make the Spring game. I've already marked my calendar but may have a grandchilds b-day preempt my best laid plans depending on which weekend we celebrate it on... Unfortunately, it won't be my call...
In my opinion, our making it to the Spring game is one of the most important things any of us can do. If we could start showing up 25,000 strong I believe our recruits would take note...
I agree with you here. I was a season ticket holder in the 70s and 80s but gave them up for 20 years while the kids were growing up. Started back again when kids enrolled at IU and been going since. Now that I’m retired I go to all the sporting events there. Something for you to look forward to.While thats well said...I have 7 kids from 30 to 6 years old and 3 granddaughters now. I don't play golf I quit. I've played maybe 5 times in 20 years. Year by year I see friends and family continue on playing and there are divorces and serious kid issues over it. It is what it is.
As far as the spring game or other games it is hard I'll be honest. I would love to get down there for games. I used to go to all the CU games years ago and loved every minute when I lived In Denver. Hopefully we can get down there and would love to see Tronti in the spring game. If theres nothing going on that weekend I would love to come down shake your hand and share a cold beverage!
Allen is a coach guys rally around, sacrifice, and play for. Wilson isn't. Wilson is a brilliant offensive mind, but that doesn't make him a leader of young men. You either are a leader or you aren't - I see traits in Allen that make me think he could be an elite leader. Hopefully he can recruit well enough to back it up.
Terrible pitch. Who cares about how close you are to the combine? You can get from LAX to Indy in about 3 hours. Close to NFL teams? What does that matter? Scouts don’t fly?
Plenty of places offer PT if you’re good enough. And plenty of schools offer degrees that are as good or better than IU.
And our staff is far from the only staff that “actually cares about you as a person”. That’s typical fan BS. You wouldn’t land many quality recruits if this is your pitch.
Really? Would've never guessed that one. Shocking!
I thought the guy outlined some nice highlights. Whats yours?
Those were not my thoughts, but what I believe to be the thoughts of many delusional fans that kick and scream on this board. The pitch that certain posters on this board believe to be feasible. Saban was a joke, the other part wasn't. Too many of our fans believe we can fire coaches every 3-5 years just to magically bring in an accomplished coach for millions, recruit 4 and 5 star players, and become a juggernaut. They dismiss the stability of the program today, as well as the horrific past 50+ years of IU football.
O fer cryin' out loud. At least get it right.
You have to fire Glass first. He's not going to fire TA for six years, and then only after giving him an extension.
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