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All joking aside

If all the facts are as you believe, I agree. As I told Goat, I no longer believe anything told to us by the leadership of the FBI or DOJ without 100% independent proof.
But, even if that's the case, you surely should not give Trump the benefit of the doubt either, given his history.

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Apparently, Trump's fake hurricane map above (with added Sharpy line) was one of the missing documents that first attracted NARA's attention in 2021.
 
"I don’t think"
"How that was done I don’t know"
"We have no idea"
"No reason for me to not believe"
"they could have"

It doesn't really sound like you have an informed opinion to pay attention to.

Maybe he goes by this crazy idea of innocent until proven guilty. What a concept!
 
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She took classified info on her computer. Then
destroyed it in spite of a subpoena.
Who cares? Then convict her too, if they can.

The only reason anybody on this board posts about Hillary is to deflect discussion about Trump's faults.
 
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So.....that's not the same thing. She didn't retain documents she was requested to return.
How do we know? No one crashed in with 40 FBI agents, run her attorney out of the house and looked into every square inch of the house.

No way she didn’t pull a backup of the computer before she wiped it clean.
 
Apparently, Trump's fake hurricane map above (with added Sharpy line) was one of the missing documents that first attracted NARA's attention in 2021.

In fairness, I kind of understand why he'd want to abscond with that. It might be worth a bundle some day.
 
How do we know? No one crashed in with 40 FBI agents, run her attorney out of the house and looked into every square inch of the house.

No way she didn’t pull a backup of the computer before she wiped it clean.
So now you're just throwing out baseless suppositions. You said it was the same thing. You got any evidence it was the same thing or no?
 
In fairness, I kind of understand why he'd want to abscond with that. It might be worth a bundle some day.
And, can you imagine what TMZ would pay for the evidence Trump claims was "planted"?

Kind of an object of morbid curiosity, like James Dean's car.
 
I think we're being a tad flippant with the banter about who "packed" the boxes. There are only a select few people who have the clearance to even view TS/SCI level material. So if anyone who did NOT have that level of security clearance even touched, mess less "packed" those boxes that is an extremely damaging revelation. That is precisely the level of nonchalance that the NARA complained about regarding Trump's unwillingness to adhere to security protocol that they earlier observed when he was still in the WH...

Saying that Trump didn't "pack" the boxes is not exonerating, but rather damning. That TS/SCI designation is reserved for documents only allowed to be seen by a highly selective group of people in a secured (as in armed guard posted outside the door) type of location. People are required to pass thru metal detectors and surrender all electronic media devices prior to entering that location.

And the idea that Trump might have "declassified" them prior to leaving for MAL doesn't hold water either. With a TS/SCI designation, Trump can't just "declassify" them for his personal knowledge. He has to inform every other person who has clearance to handle them (like the House Intel Committee), because once they're declassified they are no longer restricted to people with that clearance.

That means they are no longer protected by armed guards and all of those security measures. But that level of declassification can't just be done "willy nilly" and often requires months to complete. And until everyone involved was notified and the security concerns were addressed, any claim by Trump that he declassified them is completely meritless.

The fact that whoever turned informer saw those type of markings, realized the implications and contacted the FBI to report it, removes any possible validity for Trump to claim he didn't know they were there. At the very least he exhibited gross negligence...
In short, only a select group of highly responsible people are allowed contact with those documents. By taking the oath of the office of the president, Trump was accepting that responsibility.
 
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...they are trying to rile up their leftist base to vote. They will leak whatever to get them to vote and the tds crowd eats it up.
What would your orange hero have to do to make your support waver? Lying? Nope. Shoot somebody on 5th Avenue? Nope. Felony theft? Nope. So.... what?

Just saying... maybe pick a new horse.
 
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You do a good job of pretending conservatives stand for something. Conservatives actually have no moral or ethical standing. Including you. Conservatives nominated and posted sexual predators in the Supreme Court, in Clarence Thomas and Kavanaugh and for president, in Trump.

You might salvage a bit of credibility and standing if, for example, you prefaced any statement about Thomas or Kavanaugh with “I have a firm conviction that he should recuse himself from any case involving sexual predation but otherwise I think he’s a good judge.“ Until you exhibit such truth and honesty in your posting, no standing, no credibility. Full stop.

Get real.
You support a gestapo-like organization & have no room to talk. Full stop.
 
You support a gestapo-like organization & have no room to talk. Full stop.
I know that Rick Scott used the "gestapo" term the other day. It's pretty reckless for anyone to compare our institutions such as the DOJ and FBI to Nazi Germany. It's a slap in the face to the dedicated, patriotic and hard-working men and women who work for those organizations. It also endangers their lives. Two of the agents identified in the search have already received death threats, and there have been an "unprecedented" number of threats against other bureau personnel since last Monday.
 
I know that Rick Scott used the "gestapo" term the other day. It's pretty reckless for anyone to compare our institutions such as the DOJ and FBI to Nazi Germany. It's a slap in the face to the dedicated, patriotic and hard-working men and women who work for those organizations. It also endangers their lives. Two of the agents identified in the search have already received death threats, and there have been an "unprecedented" number of threats against other bureau personnel since last Monday.
Anything jet disagrees with is "gestapo".
 
I know that Rick Scott used the "gestapo" term the other day. It's pretty reckless for anyone to compare our institutions such as the DOJ and FBI to Nazi Germany. It's a slap in the face to the dedicated, patriotic and hard-working men and women who work for those organizations. It also endangers their lives. Two of the agents identified in the search have already received death threats, and there have been an "unprecedented" number of threats against other bureau personnel since last Monday.
Did Garland receive any?
 
I know that Rick Scott used the "gestapo" term the other day. It's pretty reckless for anyone to compare our institutions such as the DOJ and FBI to Nazi Germany. It's a slap in the face to the dedicated, patriotic and hard-working men and women who work for those organizations. It also endangers their lives. Two of the agents identified in the search have already received death threats, and there have been an "unprecedented" number of threats against other bureau personnel since last Monday.
OH MY GOD. He wrote FULL STOP. That's it. You don't respond. Don't you have kids? Sus as hell
 
I know that Rick Scott used the "gestapo" term the other day. It's pretty reckless for anyone to compare our institutions such as the DOJ and FBI to Nazi Germany. It's a slap in the face to the dedicated, patriotic and hard-working men and women who work for those organizations. It also endangers their lives. Two of the agents identified in the search have already received death threats, and there have been an "unprecedented" number of threats against other bureau personnel since last Monday.
People who certainly know better respond to GOP's use of the term "Gestapo" when talking about FBI and DOJ.
 
That dog don’t hunt.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Whatever Comey said or did, Hillary is still culpable for anything she did if the statute of limitations hasn’t run out. Put them both in jail as far as I’m concerned.

So sorry, Macks, if your hero’s guilty he’s going down.


Mistah Turtz — he dead.
He's not my hero jack ass. I have mentioned on many occasions that he isn't even my choice in 2024.

I am just sick of the double standards. "No two cases of having secure material are alike and hunting dogs don't lie with pigs in shit when the rain falls on the plain in Spain...." In other words, Hillary did the same shit and many of us defended that then but let's get this person now for the same thing when it is someone we don't like politically. Sorry but no.
 
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I mean she was investigated for what 4 years. More maybe. A Republican controlled Congress couldn't find anything to charge her with so...

Are you saying she should have been investigated and Trump shouldn't be?
What was congress going to criminally convict her of? Comey basically said she broke the law but he wasn’t going forward with it. Trump’s deal is no different except the pissed off stooge Garland will probably charge Trump.

After November his ass will be hauled in front of congress and he will do like Obama’s wingman and ignore their requests for information. Unlike Trump’s ex associates, Garland won’t be charged with contempt of congress just like nothing happened to Holder the wingman.

Two sets of Justice. One for democrats and for Trump associates. Anyone that argues differently is a damn liar.
 
So.....that's not the same thing. She didn't retain documents she was requested to return.
Turns out that the FBI agents and officials who raided Mar-A-Lago are currently under criminal investigation in the Durham probe for their role in the Russiagate hoax- that’s right, it’s the same division and the same agents as the last Witch hunt!
 
The specific procedures might have no bearing on whether or not Trump was incompetent and irresponsible, but they might still have a bearing on whether or not he is himself criminally liable for any of this, thanks to the various mens reas required by the statutes, and the precedent (often cited and disagreed with by Aloha) that these crimes haven't generally been prosecuted without provable malign intent.
I agree 100% with that, and in the final analysis it will be up to DOJ whether they feel the need to levy charges, seek an indictment and proceed from there. I'm not arguing either way on that because I don't know if it's warranted or not...

I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of all of the throw it at the wall and see what sticks "defenses" being put forward by Trump and echoed by others, including some here...

Imo, the June 3 meeting, where we've now learned that the folks at MAL (at least 1 of Trump's lawyers) signed a certification that all of the classified material had been returned is the real problem. They surrendered the last of subpoenaed documents that the Grand Jury had requested, but they failed to even mention any other documents that weren't on the list. And they just didn't OMIT any mention of additional documents on premises, but basically certified that there were NOT any by signing to represent that all classified material had been returned...

All of that becomes a HUGE problem when someone who has seen classified documents at MAL AFTER the June 3 meeting contacts the FBI and informs them that they are there. We know that happened because it's discussed in the paperwork released Fri, with the name of the person redacted. Common sense should tell people that if the documents had been "declassified" the heading would have been changed to reflect the change in status. But if that had been properly executed the informant would have seen that they were "declassified" and would have had no reason to even contact the FBI.

The fact that there were documents seized that were still labelled TS/SCI should be enough to convince even the staunchest Trump defender that this "declassification" or not being aware defenses are totally without merit. The informant is the real problematic issue for Trump here, because it defies reality to pretend that he or she was the only person at MAL who had seen these documents, marked TS/SCI...
 
I know that Rick Scott used the "gestapo" term the other day. It's pretty reckless for anyone to compare our institutions such as the DOJ and FBI to Nazi Germany. It's a slap in the face to the dedicated, patriotic and hard-working men and women who work for those organizations. It also endangers their lives. Two of the agents identified in the search have already received death threats, and there have been an "unprecedented" number of threats against other bureau personnel since last Monday.
Where did I say anything about the DOJ or FBI?
 
What was congress going to criminally convict her of? Comey basically said she broke the law but he wasn’t going forward with it. Trump’s deal is no different except the pissed off stooge Garland will probably charge Trump.

After November his ass will be hauled in front of congress and he will do like Obama’s wingman and ignore their requests for information. Unlike Trump’s ex associates, Garland won’t be charged with contempt of congress just like nothing happened to Holder the wingman.

Two sets of Justice. One for democrats and for Trump associates. Anyone that argues differently is a damn liar.

Are you saying she should have been investigated and Trump shouldn't be?
 
Very simple. If Trump is prosecuted then she needs to be prosecuted.
In your mind, why didn't the Republican Trump administration prosecute her?

I don't recall there has been any new evidence about this since 2016.
 
In your mind, why didn't the Republican Trump administration prosecute her?

I don't recall there has been any new evidence about this since 2016.
An interesting interview with David Laufman who was he DOJ's top investigator at the counterintelligence unit until he left in 2018. He investigated both Petraeus and Clinton, but I don't think he was the decision maker as to whether or not to prosecute.

He doesn't yet know if Trump should be prosecuted, but feels the raid is justified based on the list of documents in the property receipt alone. He also says that if these charges were being levelled against any other POTUS it would be shocking, but given Trump's track record it's pretty much SOP. Just another former Trump official who isn't that shocked by anything Trump is accused of...




 
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