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All joking aside

Making a completely different argument than MCM. I don’t disagree with your possibility. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if Trump hasn’t looked twice at any of those boxes and doesn’t know what’s in them specifically. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t see value in them or that he’s too shallow to understand their value.
I guess my point is, I think the "value" to him could likely be "because they're mine". You are implying that he kept them because he believes that they can be used at a later date as either leverage against someone or to be sold for money / favors.

I think it's distinctly possibly he took them because they were there.
 
I guess my point is, I think the "value" to him could likely be "because they're mine". You are implying that he kept them because he believes that they can be used at a later date as either leverage against someone or to be sold for money / favors.

I think it's distinctly possibly he took them because they were there.
Right. Again, I agree with you. I’m not asserting he explicitly Took nuclear documents considering their potential value. I’m simply saying he’s not too shallow to have done so. As you point out, there are multiple plausible scenarios for how he arrived at having those boxes. Evidently the FBI didn’t even know for certain that he had nuclear documents. It sounds more like a preventive search and seizure.

Frankly, I think the most likely scenario for those boxes is that his underlings put them together to serve their master. I’d be surprised if they would find his fingerprints on any of those boxes or even on any of the documents within.

And if push comes to shove, I wouldn’t be surprised if he throws someone under the bus and says I’ve never even touched those boxes or those documents. Check them for my fingerprints.
 
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If it was just that they missed some boxes previously, why the different approach this time? I don't remember the June visit to Mar-a-Lago on the front pages. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

They asked the boxes initially and received some of the boxes.. They then later found out he didn't give them all of the boxes. How many times are they supposed to ask for the boxes to be returned before forcing the issue? He should have returned all of the boxes back in June. Not just a portion of them. If he had complied 100% the first time, there would have been no raid.
 
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Get real? Really? Tell me what value? To sell? Just how would he go about doing that? He's under every type of investigation possible. You think he could slide in a quick sale of nuclear codes. And don't the nuclear codes change with each president anyway. i thought there was some mess years ago when clinton lost them or something. and i know there is a protocol for all of that stuff. the vp. sect of defense. etc. I don't believe it. And if i am wrong and he has compromised information than COH's point is more salient to me in that while in the hell has it taken 17 months to discover it.

Trump ran for president on a lark. he's a brilliant marketing guy. He's harold hill. I stand by my original post. i don't believe he intentionally absconded with nuclear information. if he has it it's negligence not intent. he lacks the depth. you give him too much credit.
I also don't think Trump has the intellectual curiosity to pore through 27+ boxes of documents of any kind, classified or not. But he's been known to tear them up or mark on them. And, he's been able to hire loyalists for his office staff that tend to do what he asks.

Trump might not be able to sell documents or copies, but he sure has the ability to talk about their content to his political allies and business associates who have lower security than he does (or none at all).

Another thing I haven't seen discussed yet-- had all these 27+ boxes of documents been previously kept in the White House residence section? I've been assuming that Trump's movers loaded up these boxes from the WH residence when he moved out. But I sure hope he wasn't keeping boxes of sensitive materials in the residence where in-laws, children, relatives, dinner guests, overnight guests, campaign donors, Melania's and Barron's friends, family physicians all had access.

I would assume the security clearance needed to visit the first family in the White House residence still isn't high enough to be entitled to see most levels of classified documents. We'll see (maybe).
 
Right. Again, I agree with you. I’m not asserting he explicitly Took nuclear documents considering their potential value. I’m simply saying he’s not too shallow to have done so. As you point out, there are multiple plausible scenarios for how he arrived at having those boxes. Evidently the FBI didn’t even know for certain that he had nuclear documents. It sounds more like a preventive search and seizure.

Frankly, I think the most likely scenario for those boxes is that his underlings put them together to serve their master. I’d be surprised if they would find his fingerprints on any of those boxes or even on any of the documents within.

And if push comes to shove, I wouldn’t be surprised if he throws someone under the bus and says I’ve never even touched those boxes or those documents. Check them for my fingerprints.
Agreed. Especially the second two paragraphs.
 
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eventually we'll get the warrant and aff then we'll know
Actually, ex-fed prosecutor Elie Honig said yesterday that he doesn't think we'll see the affidavit submitted to support the request for search warrant, unless it is eventually filed in court as part of the prosecution papers in actual criminal charges.
 
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Making a completely different argument than MCM. I don’t disagree with your possibility. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if Trump hasn’t looked twice at any of those boxes and doesn’t know what’s in them specifically. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t see value in them or that he’s too shallow to understand their value.
Regardless whether he personally reviewed any of the documents or even opened the boxes, he is still probably responsible. He has staffers on site (apparently including Eric Trump) and attorneys to do his clerical work.
 
Regardless whether he personally reviewed any of the documents or even opened the boxes, he is still probably responsible. He has staffers on site (apparently including Eric Trump) and attorneys to do his clerical work.

I don't think it matters that much if he knew about the boxes originally or opened them. He was asked for them a while ago and was told to give them back. It was his duty to make sure all were returned, not just half. Even if he decided he wasn't going to look inside the boxes, he still refused to comply with the order to return them.
 
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I also don't think Trump has the intellectual curiosity to pore through 27+ boxes of documents of any kind, classified or not. But he's been known to tear them up or mark on them. And, he's been able to hire loyalists for his office staff that tend to do what he asks.

Trump might not be able to sell documents or copies, but he sure has the ability to talk about their content to his political allies and business associates who have lower security than he does (or none at all).

Another thing I haven't seen discussed yet-- had all these 27+ boxes of documents been previously kept in the White House residence section? I've been assuming that Trump's movers loaded up these boxes from the WH residence when he moved out. But I sure hope he wasn't keeping boxes of sensitive materials in the residence where in-laws, children, relatives, dinner guests, overnight guests, campaign donors, Melania's and Barron's friends, family physicians all had access.

I would assume the security clearance needed to visit the first family in the White House residence still isn't high enough to be entitled to see most levels of classified documents. We'll see (maybe).
If there was a box at Mar-A-Lago containing documents pertaining to a nuclear arsenal - - ours or anybody else's - - there's no doubt he knew exactly where it was.

Trump has always been obsessed with "nuclear," as he calls it (one word, singular). He once asked what's the point of having nuclear weapons if you don't use them. He has referenced his own superior genetic understanding of nuclear physics, given that his uncle was a professor at MIT. He's suggested nuclear weapons could be used for hurricane control. He has also suggested that it might be beneficial if more countries (e.g. Japan, South Korea) had nuclear weapons.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he would try to monetize his access to nuclear documentation. The greater likelihood, though, is that holding onto the documents simply feeds his ego and sense of empowerment.
 
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You are begging the question. According to Trumps attorney, the feds we’re previously given full access to everything taken Monday. The dispute is whether the material constitutes records or secrets as defined by statute. This was always a negotiation for others and so was this case—until the feds decided piss on it, we will do this our way. We do know that the DOJ came under significant political pressure to unload on Trump.
If they were previously given full access why wasn't the boxes taken this week given to them earlier and why was a subpoena for the documents issued in June ignored. The "We do know that the DOJ" came under significant political pressure to unload on Trump" is a disregard or the actual facts.
 
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Not at all meaningless.

It doesn’t matter if he wouldn’t know what to do with it (as scary as that is), it’s whether a foreign bad actor could get a hold of America’s nuclear secrets by bypassing Mar-a-Lago’s security team.

Hillary used her own server in a bathroom closet and received classified materials through it. In fact, her staff took classified files, cut off the classification verbiage, and sent it to her server. Your desperation to take down Trump is sad and pathetic.
 
Get real? Really? Tell me what value? To sell? Just how would he go about doing that? He's under every type of investigation possible. You think he could slide in a quick sale of nuclear codes. And don't the nuclear codes change with each president anyway. i thought there was some mess years ago when clinton lost them or something. and i know there is a protocol for all of that stuff. the vp. sect of defense. etc. I don't believe it. And if i am wrong and he has compromised information than COH's point is more salient to me in that while in the hell has it taken 17 months to discover it.

Trump ran for president on a lark. he's a brilliant marketing guy. He's harold hill. I stand by my original post. i don't believe he intentionally absconded with nuclear information. if he has it it's negligence not intent. he lacks the depth. you give him too much credit.
Weapon system locations, response times.

We already know that there are adversarial spies on the maralago membership roster. Everyone should be concerned.
 
Yeah, those awful conservatives won’t say the pledge, trash the founding fathers, believe the American Flag isn’t inclusive, believe men and women are figments, never give America or Americans the first policy priority, don’t recognize the enormous damage drugs do to people and the country, hate gasoline, hate diesel, hate fertilizer, hate livestock, hate NG, hate atoms, hate individuality, hate independence, love obedience, love conformity and think the country can thrive and survive on sunshine and wind.

Yeah, conservatives must tone it down.
Yeah and a Proud Boy Trumper just tried to shoot up an FBI building in Ohio. Thank god that whack job was taken out.

Everyone needs to tone down their rhetoric. Liberals aren't trying to destroy anything. Conservatives aren't trying to destroy anything. We just have different ideas. That's it. You know for a ****ing fact that Joe Biden isn't trying to destroy the country. Just like I know Mitch McConnel isn't. And I know Trump isn't either(no one to grift in a destroyed country).
 
Yeah and a Proud Boy Trumper just tried to shoot up an FBI building in Ohio. Thank god that whack job was taken out.

Everyone needs to tone down their rhetoric. Liberals aren't trying to destroy anything. Conservatives aren't trying to destroy anything. We just have different ideas. That's it. You know for a ****ing fact that Joe Biden isn't trying to destroy the country. Just like I know Mitch McConnel isn't. And I know Trump isn't either(no one to grift in a destroyed country).

I'm not sure conservatives exist in America. I consider myself a conservative. To me it means that change is made slowly and based on data and evidence. If that exists in America I'm missing it.
 
I'm not sure conservatives exist in America. I consider myself a conservative. To me it means that change is made slowly and based on data and evidence. If that exists in America I'm missing it.
There are a few. Liz Cheney is one.
 
The real question is how many pretend lawyers are posting in the water cooler 24/7 365? Should we put together a list of names? Seems obvious if they were real lawyers they must be terrible at their job and have no clients. Otherwise they are spending more time here than working for clients. I think some of you are not being honest and that makes more sense.
 
Hillary used her own server in a bathroom closet and received classified materials through it. In fact, her staff took classified files, cut off the classification verbiage, and sent it to her server. Your desperation to take down Trump is sad and pathetic.
Partisanship aside, do you think Clinton's issue was a big deal?

Because it's quite possible that they both made huge errors that compromised national security. It's not a zero-sum game.
 
Hillary used her own server in a bathroom closet and received classified materials through it. In fact, her staff took classified files, cut off the classification verbiage, and sent it to her server. Your desperation to take down Trump is sad and pathetic.
The very public investigation of that conduct probably cost her the presidency.

Thank God the guy that beat her recognized that mishandling classified documents is a serious matter, and he made it a felony instead of a misdemeanor. Seems like there should be an enhanced penalty if the documents pertain to national security, don't you think?
 
Not at all meaningless.

It doesn’t matter if he wouldn’t know what to do with it (as scary as that is), it’s whether a foreign bad actor could get a hold of America’s nuclear secrets by bypassing Mar-a-Lago’s security team.
Or just hire a hooker (a la Stormy) to stroke his ego (among other things) and turn him into a blabbering blob of orange...

Whether one chooses to believe this account or not, the claim made here by Shane Harris (WAPO) that Trump's own staff were dismayed by the amount of unauthorized people who had access to and physically handled classified documents is both extremely plausible and highly troubling...

 
This is effed up. Please think twice before defending it.


Must have pretty serious stuff that the FBI waited over a year to raid his house on behalf of the National Archives. Think about that.

I just want the truth. Could not care less if Trump goes to jail if he broke laws.
 
Must have pretty serious stuff that the FBI waited over a year to raid his house on behalf of the National Archives. Think about that.
Lol... the fact that they have given him multiple chances to comply doesn't mean that it isn't serious. 45 has gotten the kid glove treatment. Then, apparently, that extraordinary patience ran out.
 
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Must have pretty serious stuff that the FBI waited over a year to raid his house on behalf of the National Archives. Think about that.

I just want the truth. Could not care less if Trump goes to jail if he broke laws.
They didn't wait over a year for anything. They first tried to play nice which is always an exercise in futility because you can't place nice with Trump. He stalls and obfuscates. Then they issued a grand jury subpoena, but later found out from an informant that he didn't fully comply and that he was holding onto some pretty sensitive shit.

The search warrant was a last resort. It's his own fvcking fault.
 
I'm not sure conservatives exist in America. I consider myself a conservative. To me it means that change is made slowly and based on data and evidence. If that exists in America I'm missing it.
I think just the opposite. Most of America is conservative. The problem is not with conservative ideas, the problem is connecting those ideas to people. I have often said I don’t understand anything about ”TRUMPISM” because it has no connection to ideas. It‘s a personality. Yet many people, including smart people on this forum, allow “TRUMPISM” to define politics.

Conservatism has bedrock ideas that I think most adhere to. These include the power and authority of accumulated wisdom, the rejection of short-term trendy politics, inequality is natural and attempts at large-scale collectivism stifles individualism and progress (progressivism). There is much more. But you get the idea.

But, so long as we see ideas as people, we are stuck.
 
Are our liberals OK? Any heads explode?

FoxNews says “classified docs found”
Trump says “all were declassified.”
Libs can’t pick between their enemies!
OH NO!
 
I think just the opposite. Most of America is conservative.
I disagree with this. The fact that Democrats have won the popular vote in five of the last 6 elections kinda proves that.

Unless you meant that from a geographical standpoint. The amount of area that conservatives cover is much much larger than the liberal amount, that I would agree with.

If you want to take this to another thread, we can explore.
 
I disagree with this. The fact that Democrats have won the popular vote in five of the last 6 elections kinda proves that.

Unless you meant that from a geographical standpoint. The amount of area that conservatives cover is much much larger than the liberal amount, that I would agree with.

If you want to take this to another thread, we can explore.
Sad that you cannot conceive of a conservative Democrat. They used to help run the country.
 
I think just the opposite. Most of America is conservative. The problem is not with conservative ideas, the problem is connecting those ideas to people. I have often said I don’t understand anything about ”TRUMPISM” because it has no connection to ideas. It‘s a personality. Yet many people, including smart people on this forum, allow “TRUMPISM” to define politics.

Conservatism has bedrock ideas that I think most adhere to. These include the power and authority of accumulated wisdom, the rejection of short-term trendy politics, inequality is natural and attempts at large-scale collectivism stifles individualism and progress (progressivism). There is much more. But you get the idea.

But, so long as we see ideas as people, we are stuck.

The "ideas" of the prior administration reminded me more of Hugo Chavez or Bolsheviks than anything I would associate with conservatism. Massive increases in government spending, corporate bailouts, stimulus checks, tariffs. Reliance on executive orders. The list goes on.

I would like to see an economy based on import substitution industrialization, but I'm not going to pretend it's "conservative".
 
Lol... the fact that they have given him multiple chances to comply doesn't mean that it isn't serious. 45 has gotten the kid glove treatment. Then, apparently, that extraordinary patience ran out.

But the only reason I could see to raid an ex-pres home is for national security, so I would think that would create some urgency by the FBI, not 16 months later.

But maybe the FBI just discovered he had these documents and felt compelled to act. We shall see.
 
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