All joking aside

[CO. Hoosier]

So how did the informant become aware?

The kicker to all of this is that Trump himself signed a law in 2018 that made it a felony to remove and retain classified documents.

He's f*cked.

As president, Trump approved a law increasing penalties for mishandling classified info. It could come back to bite him.

Back in 2018, Donald Trump signed into law a bill toughening sentencing for mishandling classified info that received little attention at the time.

www.businessinsider.com

You are begging the question. According to Trumps attorney, the feds we’re previously given full access to everything taken Monday. The dispute is whether the material constitutes records or secrets as defined by statute. This was always a negotiation for others and so was this case—until the feds decided piss on it, we will do this our way. We do know that the DOJ came under significant political pressure to unload on Trump.

 

[dbmhoosier]

 

[Bowlmania]

It's funny to me those defending Trump or saying this is overreach by the DOJ

All the talk earlier in the week about how Garland provided Trump with the greatest possible launch for his 2024 presidential campaign has suddenly quieted down.

The unsealing of the warrant this afternoon should be interesting. With any luck we'll see a reference to a criminal statute. It may not be - - and doesn't have to be - - the most serious possible offense but, regardless, it will shed more light on the situation.

 

[iuwclurker]

You are begging the question. According to Trumps attorney, the feds we’re previously given full access to everything taken Monday. The dispute is whether the material constitutes records or secrets as defined by statute. This was always a negotiation for others and so was this case—until the feds decided piss on it, we will do this our way. We do know that the DOJ came under significant political pressure to unload on Trump.

You are an experienced lawyer. Trump pays his lawyer (if he pays her) to lie. As an experienced lawyer you know this. And then you post this.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

What was taken.

If the WaPo reporting is accurate and they seized classified documents relating to national security and our nuclear capabilities or other intelligence I care a great deal less about how they knew they were there than that they were there in the first place.

The PC would be full of the more salacious stuff for sure, but I really only care what was being kept.

From a curiosity standpoint, I am interested in why they looked in Melania's wardrobe. On one hand, when you're looking for small things, like papers, a search warrant would basically give LEOs the ability to look virtually anywhere in the house where a paper could be hidden. I have a hunch that they were tipped off that some things were being hidden in Melania's wardrobe. If that pans out, I think it's a really bad look for Trump.

The CI has to have objective credibility. If the CI is a typical Trump hater, the FBI has a problem. They have already gone off the deep end once or twice based on bullshit Trump information.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Not at all meaningless.

It doesn’t matter if he wouldn’t know what to do with it (as scary as that is), it’s whether a foreign bad actor could get a hold of America’s nuclear secrets by bypassing Mar-a-Lago’s security team.

Like the FBI mole.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Agreed. It's early. But it's becoming increasingly clear why Justice felt the need to move quickly and execute a search warrant.

It's so cute that you Leftists believe everything that leaks out of the FBI & DOJ. How far you have come since the 1970s.

So here we have 'experts' commenting on anonymous sources commenting on an "ongoing investigation". In other words, violating the sacred obligation just articulated by the current FBI director before Congress to never talk about an ongoing investigation. Can we expect a vigorous investigation of these sources that will lead to firings at the FBI and DOJ?

You're right. "It's early". Plenty of time to backtrack when we find out this is all bullshit. Except, by then, you'll be onto another political prosecution---DeSantis maybe?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

That people are seriously defending him is just disgusting.

I’m waiting for facts.

You are playing the role of a dupe.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Let’s get serious here, do you really think they gave him the right codes in the first place?

Hehe.....not too far fetched

 

[bawlmer]

There isn't an active investigation into stolen classified documents?

If there is, it's been subpar if they just now learned he has something that needed to be retrieved immediately. If this isn't tied to a J6 investigation and concern about destruction of evidence, I'll be surprised.

 

[TMFT]

View embedded media

It's worth noting that the Feds didn't leak the search warrant execution, Trump did.

 

[Bowlmania]

You are begging the question. According to Trumps attorney, the feds we’re previously given full access to everything taken Monday. The dispute is whether the material constitutes records or secrets as defined by statute. This was always a negotiation for others and so was this case—until the feds decided piss on it, we will do this our way. We do know that the DOJ came under significant political pressure to unload on Trump.

You're not thinking clearly and you need to pay closer attention.

The feds retrieved documents from Mar-A-Lago earlier this year, including docs federal agents took custody of in June pursuant to a federal grand jury subpoena. They subsequently learned through an informant that classified documents remained on the property, including those with national security implications. That prompted Monday's little visit.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This also underscores why conservatives need to tone down their rhetoric.

Yeah, those awful conservatives won’t say the pledge, trash the founding fathers, believe the American Flag isn’t inclusive, believe men and women are figments, never give America or Americans the first policy priority, don’t recognize the enormous damage drugs do to people and the country, hate gasoline, hate diesel, hate fertilizer, hate livestock, hate NG, hate atoms, hate individuality, hate independence, love obedience, love conformity and think the country can thrive and survive on sunshine and wind.

Yeah, conservatives must tone it down.

 

[mcmurtry66]

It doesn’t take depth to focus on the bottom line. Trump clearly knows the value of nuclear weapons, nuclear codes and nuclear information.

Get real.

Get real? Really? Tell me what value? To sell? Just how would he go about doing that? He's under every type of investigation possible. You think he could slide in a quick sale of nuclear codes. And don't the nuclear codes change with each president anyway. i thought there was some mess years ago when clinton lost them or something. and i know there is a protocol for all of that stuff. the vp. sect of defense. etc. I don't believe it. And if i am wrong and he has compromised information than COH's point is more salient to me in that while in the hell has it taken 17 months to discover it.

Trump ran for president on a lark. he's a brilliant marketing guy. He's harold hill. I stand by my original post. i don't believe he intentionally absconded with nuclear information. if he has it it's negligence not intent. he lacks the depth. you give him too much credit.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You're not thinking clearly and you need to pay closer attention.

The feds retrieved documents from Mar-A-Lago earlier this year, including docs federal agents took custody of in June pursuant to a federal grand jury subpoena. They subsequently learned through an informant that classified documents remained on the property, including those with national security implications. That prompted Monday's little visit.

Still begging the question of what documents are covered by the statute.

 

[mcmurtry66]

So how did the informant become aware?

The kicker to all of this is that Trump himself signed a law in 2018 that made it a felony to remove and retain classified documents.

He's f*cked.

As president, Trump approved a law increasing penalties for mishandling classified info. It could come back to bite him.

Back in 2018, Donald Trump signed into law a bill toughening sentencing for mishandling classified info that received little attention at the time.

www.businessinsider.com

If anything this supports his lack of intent imo. gross negligence is my guess

 

[Cortez88]

I’m waiting for facts.

You are playing the role of a dupe.

Oh, he’s the only one playing the dupe role in this thread?

 

[Bowlmania]

Still begging the question of what documents are covered by the statute.

Wtf?

Unfortunately the feds haven't provided me with an itemized and detailed list of what was retrieved.

 

[iuwclurker]

Yeah, those awful conservatives won’t say the pledge, trash the founding fathers, believe the American Flag isn’t inclusive, believe men and women are figments, never give America or Americans the first policy priority, don’t recognize the enormous damage drugs do to people and the country, hate gasoline, hate diesel, hate fertilizer, hate livestock, hate NG, hate atoms, hate individuality, hate independence, love obedience, love conformity and think the country can thrive and survive on sunshine and wind.

Yeah, conservatives must tone it down.

You do a good job of pretending conservatives stand for something. Conservatives actually have no moral or ethical standing. Including you. Conservatives nominated and posted sexual predators in the Supreme Court, in Clarence Thomas and Kavanaugh and for president, in Trump.

You might salvage a bit of credibility and standing if, for example, you prefaced any statement about Thomas or Kavanaugh with “I have a firm conviction that he should recuse himself from any case involving sexual predation but otherwise I think he’s a good judge.“ Until you exhibit such truth and honesty in your posting, no standing, no credibility. Full stop.

Get real.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Wtf?

Unfortunately the feds haven't provided me with an itemized and detailed list of what was retrieved.

and yet you are still flapping your gums about it without any real factual knowledge.

 

[Spartans9312]

You do a good job of pretending conservatives stand for something. Conservatives actually have no moral or ethical standing. Including you. Conservatives nominated and posted sexual predators in the Supreme Court, in Clarence Thomas and Kavanaugh and for president, in Trump.

You might salvage a bit of credibility and standing if, for example, you prefaced any statement about Thomas or Kavanaugh with “I have a firm conviction that he should recuse himself from any case involving sexual predation but otherwise I think he’s a good judge.“ Until you exhibit such truth and honesty in your posting, no standing, no credibility. Full stop.

Get real.

Exhibit A of a momma’s boy and Clinton supporter

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Exhibit A of a momma’s boy and Clinton supporter

He thinks what he is told to think.

 

[mcmurtry66]

eventually we'll get the warrant and aff then we'll know

 

[Cortez88]

You do a good job of pretending conservatives stand for something. Conservatives actually have no moral or ethical standing. Including you. Conservatives nominated and posted sexual predators in the Supreme Court, in Clarence Thomas and Kavanaugh and for president, in Trump.

You might salvage a bit of credibility and standing if, for example, you prefaced any statement about Thomas or Kavanaugh with “I have a firm conviction that he should recuse himself from any case involving sexual predation but otherwise I think he’s a good judge.“ Until you exhibit such truth and honesty in your posting, no standing, no credibility. Full stop.

Get real.

You’re painting with a very wide brush here. I bet we have several conservatives who think differently than COH.

 

[Cortez88]

eventually we'll get the warrant and aff then we'll know

Exactly. Everything else, from all directions, is speculation. How you color your speculation is driven by your partisanship.

 

[iuwclurker]

Get real? Really? Tell me what value? To sell? Just how would he go about doing that? He's under every type of investigation possible. You think he could slide in a quick sale of nuclear codes. And don't the nuclear codes change with each president anyway. i thought there was some mess years ago when clinton lost them or something. and i know there is a protocol for all of that stuff. the vp. sect of defense. etc. I don't believe it. And if i am wrong and he has compromised information than COH's point is more salient to me in that while in the hell has it taken 17 months to discover it.

Trump ran for president on a lark. he's a brilliant marketing guy. He's harold hill. I stand by my original post. i don't believe he intentionally absconded with nuclear information. if he has it it's negligence not intent. he lacks the depth. you give him too much credit.

This is simpler than you’re trying to make it. If there are confidential nuclear documents, they are confidential for a reason. They are confidential to indicate enemies are interested in them. That is their value.

There are two reasons Trump would take documents with him. One is to conceal his own wrongdoings and the other is to benefit from their value. If there’s one thing that’s obvious to me, especially based on your argument of Trump lacking depth, it’s that Trump wouldn’t take confidential documents about nukes to conceal his wrongdoings. What wrongdoings would he have done with nukes if he’s goof-brained about them?

 

[iuwclurker]

You’re painting with a very wide brush here. I bet we have several conservatives who think differently than COH.

I agree. I would hope they understand I’m not painting that wide a picture. The Conservatives about whom I’m speaking are self defining and I think it is relatively clear who they are. Basically anyone who justifies Clarence Thomas, Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump, and their ilk.

 

[Stuffshot]

If the core reason for the seizure wasn't related to an active investigation then the timing is an issue. This story complicates things for DOJ, in my opinion.

I read yesterday that the retrieval of documents from Trump in June was pursuant to a grand jury subpoena, so that sounds like an active investigation

 

[mcmurtry66]

Exactly. Everything else, from all directions, is speculation. How you color your speculation is driven by your partisanship.

For some posters definitely partisanship. Not for me tho honestly. I just don't think he has the planning/cunning to execute something like that. seems to me he's impulsive so again more negligence than intent. further i would have thought there are protocols and safeguards in place for that information beyond just the president. as i wrote i thought the codes change with each president. but again you are right it's all speculation. we'll know when the warrant/aff comes out

 

[Stuffshot]

What do do think the warrant and return tells us?

Hopefully, the document names and court information are not blacked out and will tell us which court case they were issued in.

Hopefully, the warrant and return include some understandable description of the documents sought and/or taken.

Pessimistically, I fear the descriptions will be vague and generic, like file folder labels: "Correspondence, May, 2021," or "Telephone logs, 2017-2021" or Personal notes."

We'll see.

 

[twenty02]

eventually we'll get the warrant and aff then we'll know

I can't imagine the warrant is going to shed a lot of light on anything. And whatever inventory list that resulted from it is likely to be highly redacted if we are talking about special access program (SAP) related documents

 

[Stuffshot]

What was taken.

If the WaPo reporting is accurate and they seized classified documents relating to national security and our nuclear capabilities or other intelligence I care a great deal less about how they knew they were there than that they were there in the first place.

The PC would be full of the more salacious stuff for sure, but I really only care what was being kept.

From a curiosity standpoint, I am interested in why they looked in Melania's wardrobe. On one hand, when you're looking for small things, like papers, a search warrant would basically give LEOs the ability to look virtually anywhere in the house where a paper could be hidden. I have a hunch that they were tipped off that some things were being hidden in Melania's wardrobe. If that pans out, I think it's a really bad look for Trump.

I doubt we'll see the word, "nuclear," in any document released today.

I imagine Melania's closet(s) is/are big enough to hold 20-30 boxes each, and that's too much storage area to just ignore.

 

[Bowlmania]

and yet you are still flapping your gums about it without any real factual knowledge.

You're out of your depth here. You're probably better off sticking to one of your own fascinating threads like "Who Would 'Lue' About Global Warming."

 

[SqueakyClean]

This is simpler than you’re trying to make it. If there are confidential nuclear documents, they are confidential for a reason. They are confidential to indicate enemies are interested in them. That is their value.

There are two reasons Trump would take documents with him. One is to conceal his own wrongdoings and the other is to benefit from their value. If there’s one thing that’s obvious to me, especially based on your argument of Trump lacking depth, it’s that Trump wouldn’t take confidential documents about nukes to conceal his wrongdoings. What wrongdoings would he have done with nukes if he’s goof-brained about them?

I'm kinda with McM on this one in that I think it is entirely plausible that he had no idea that he had these documents (or at least, specifically nuclear secrets).

Haven't we heard from multiple sources that Trump barely ever read his weekly security briefings? Staffers have told stories of how Trump always was equivalently asking "Just give me the short version" to his generals. To believe that he knew the contents of every page of those documents seems highly unlikely.

As I said in a different thread, I believe Trump "thinks" differently than you and I. What you and I assume as a logical path of thought process is not what Trump follows.

I would find it much more likely that Trump took all those boxes out of spite on his way out the door than because of any value that may have actually been in them. Or, it may possibly be that he just "wanted" them.

There's a short movie called The Gamers from 20 or so years ago about a bunch of college kids playing Dungeons and Dragons. The adventure party is relaxing in a bar, and the thief asks the Dungeon Master:

Thief: "The guy over at the bar, I want to steal his pants."
Dungeon Master: "Why the Hell do you need to steal his pants?"
Thief: "I don't need to steal his pants. I just want to steal his pants."
Dungeon Master: "????"
Thief: "I don't need his pants, I just want to see if I can do it."
Dungeon Master: "OK....whatever, roll for it."
Thief: "Nat 20!!!"
Dungeon Master: "Fine. You have stolen the guys pants."

 

[Bowlmania]

It's so cute that you Leftists believe everything that leaks out of the FBI & DOJ. How far you have come since the 1970s.

So here we have 'experts' commenting on anonymous sources commenting on an "ongoing investigation". In other words, violating the sacred obligation just articulated by the current FBI director before Congress to never talk about an ongoing investigation. Can we expect a vigorous investigation of these sources that will lead to firings at the FBI and DOJ?

You're right. "It's early". Plenty of time to backtrack when we find out this is all bullshit. Except, by then, you'll be onto another political prosecution---DeSantis maybe?

How about backing up your tough talk with a coherent argument for a change? Why is this all bullshit? How exactly has Justice overstepped its bounds? Why was the search improper or illegal?

 

[Stuffshot]

Yeah, those awful conservatives won’t say the pledge, trash the founding fathers, believe the American Flag isn’t inclusive, believe men and women are figments, never give America or Americans the first policy priority, don’t recognize the enormous damage drugs do to people and the country, hate gasoline, hate diesel, hate fertilizer, hate livestock, hate NG, hate atoms, hate individuality, hate independence, love obedience, love conformity and think the country can thrive and survive on sunshine and wind.

Yeah, conservatives must tone it down.

Should Conservative Ricky Shiffer tone it down, in your opinion?

What we know about Ricky Shiffer, suspect in FBI office attack

It appears he posted messages on Trump's Truth Social before the FBI office breach.

www.axios.com

 

[IUCrazy2]

Should Conservative Ricky Shiffer tone it down, in your opinion?

What we know about Ricky Shiffer, suspect in FBI office attack

It appears he posted messages on Trump's Truth Social before the FBI office breach.

www.axios.com

Well he's dead. Kind of hard to tone it down more than that.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I can't imagine the warrant is going to shed a lot of light on anything. And whatever inventory list that resulted from it is likely to be highly redacted if we are talking about special access program (SAP) related documents

yeah if it's a security interest i think you're right. and like all things tho we are just spitballing and speaking in generalities. the fed rules set forth the requirements but local jurisdictions can add to them. so who knows. palm beach is in the southern district of florida. i'm sure you can go to their website and see their local rules. for instance some jurisdictions, probably most, require the officers bring a copy of the search warrant back to the judge after the search with a list of everything that was seized. whether that list is redacted for security interests who knows. you might be right. but the information will certainly be there

 

[iuwclurker]

I'm kinda with McM on this one in that I think it is entirely plausible that he had no idea that he had these documents (or at least, specifically nuclear secrets).

Haven't we heard from multiple sources that Trump barely ever read his weekly security briefings? Staffers have told stories of how Trump always was equivalently asking "Just give me the short version" to his generals. To believe that he knew the contents of every page of those documents seems highly unlikely.

As I said in a different thread, I believe Trump "thinks" differently than you and I. What you and I assume as a logical path of thought process is not what Trump follows.

I would find it much more likely that Trump took all those boxes out of spite on his way out the door than because of any value that may have actually been in them. Or, it may possibly be that he just "wanted" them.

There's a short movie called The Gamers from 20 or so years ago about a bunch of college kids playing Dungeons and Dragons. The adventure party is relaxing in a bar, and the thief asks the Dungeon Master:

Thief: "The guy over at the bar, I want to steal his pants."
Dungeon Master: "Why the Hell do you need to steal his pants?"
Thief: "I don't need to steal his pants. I just want to steal his pants."
Dungeon Master: "????"
Thief: "I don't need his pants, I just want to see if I can do it."
Dungeon Master: "OK....whatever, roll for it."
Thief: "Nat 20!!!"
Dungeon Master: "Fine. You have stolen the guys pants."

Making a completely different argument than MCM. I don’t disagree with your possibility. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if Trump hasn’t looked twice at any of those boxes and doesn’t know what’s in them specifically. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t see value in them or that he’s too shallow to understand their value.

 

[bawlmer]

I read yesterday that the retrieval of documents from Trump in June was pursuant to a grand jury subpoena, so that sounds like an active investigation

If it was just that they missed some boxes previously, why the different approach this time? I don't remember the June visit to Mar-a-Lago on the front pages. I guess we'll find out soon enough.