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Al Franken's a chickenshit

zeke4ahs said:
Wish all this had started 2 years ago, but I guess it's the actual epitome of women had to hit rock bottom before fighting back. Having Trump in office has led to all kinds of revelations. But, I don't see how anyone can ask for FRanken to step down and not expect the same of Trump. We have the picture of Al, we have the video of Trump.
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Obviously I don't really want Franken to resign. I just want him to be completely honest and transparent about this. Up to now, I've had a great deal of respect him. Now, I'm not sure what to think about him, but I'm certain he's better than the likes of Trump or Moore. At least he partially admitted to his wrongdoing.
 
iuwclurker1 said:
At least Louis CK admitted what he did and didn't try to slough it off. Franken's too much a coward to admit his wrongdoing. Shame on him. He's no better than Roy Moore at this point. Even worse, really. No accusation so far that Moore stuck his tongue in anyone's mouth, is there?

Furthermore, Franken lost all credibility chiding Sessions for his memory lapses.

Franken needs to resign. Today. Or else democratic senators have nothing to say about Moore.

Either that or come clean. #ComeCleanOrResign.
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Franken admitted to what she said he did. And apologized. And welcomed an inquiry from the senate. About something that happened before he was a senator.

A pretty far cry from the other examples you gave. He didn’t deny it, Shane the victim, or employ the other tactics the other guys did.

It doesn’t make it right. He was clearly in the wrong, and if he did more to others, it will come out. The dam has burst, and women are empowered now. Which is a wonderful thing.

The comparison is off base. For now, anyway. I’d guess there will likely be more allegations that surface later.
 
iuwclurker1 said:
Interestingly, I showed hoos's posts to one friend who got really pissed off. She has no interest whatsoever in interacting on this board and I can't begin to match her eloquence but in a nutshell, she asked, given this "screenplay":

But on the day of the show, she wrote, “Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, “We need to rehearse the kiss.” I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’

He continued to insist, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable.

He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.​

"If they had been filming, what was the audience supposed to have taken away from his actions toward her? Romance? Rape? What?" I was too dumb to even think of looking at it that way.
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I remember a girl that I dated who attended the University of Chicago and her roommate told her she would rather have forced sexual intercourse with a man than be kissed by someone she didn't like. We both thought it was ridiculous but that was her position.
 
Aloha Hoosier said:
I agree you didn’t advocate her sexual assault. I think you essentially discounted her “outrage and disgust” because she’s posed skimpily clad or naked at some point - as if a woman that had posed that way should be perfectly fine with an unwanted tongue forced into her mouth. Is that not a fair read of your post?
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Not really. Franken crossed the line. No, she shouldn't "be perfectly fine" with what he did. I just have difficulty mustering up much sympathy for women who have marketed themselves as sex objects objecting when they are treated as sex objects. I know that makes me some kind of Neanderthal.
 
iuwclurker1 said:
Well, I often look at kissing scenes trying to figure out if the lips touched at all, just out of curiosity. I don't know what's considered fake kissing and all the subtleties involved..
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God, I hope someone pins this thread. It's a classic. And now we know what Clurker does alone at night...sitting in front of his DVR...repeating his favorite cinematic make-out scenes...

I'll bet he has a wide stance as well. ;)
 
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Circlejoe said:
God, I hope someone pins this thread. It's a classic. And now we know what Clurker does alone at night...sitting in front of his DVR...repeating his favorite cinematic make-out scenes...

I'll bet he has a wide stance as well. ;)
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Glad you have my best interests at heart, Circlejerk.
 
UncleMark said:
Not really. Franken crossed the line. No, she shouldn't "be perfectly fine" with what he did. I just have difficulty mustering up much sympathy for women who have marketed themselves as sex objects objecting when they are treated as sex objects. I know that makes me some kind of Neanderthal.
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I'm sorry, man, I usually like your work, but I can't abide by this. You're literally straddling the line that puts us into "She was asking for it" territory. What a woman chooses to do with her body should have no bearing whatsoever on what men are allowed to do to her body.
 
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DrHoops said:
Or the fact that Trump has been accused of RAPING a 13 year old girl.
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I love watching republicans lose their collective shit over Franken. I’m supposed to take a republican seriously when they talk about sexual misconduct? With the current occupant of the White House and their party leader? And apparently the only price of admission into the “reasonable republican” club is to say Trump is an idiot. It’s a low bar that some here proudly meet.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
I'm sorry, man, I usually like your work, but I can't abide by this. You're literally straddling the line that puts us into "She was asking for it" territory. What a woman chooses to do with her body should have no bearing whatsoever on what men are allowed to do to her body.
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If you dance naked on a pole for living, don’t be surprised when guys treat you a certain way. I’m not saying it’s right and I’m not saying anyone should be ok with it. I don’t think Tweed was a stripper, I’m speaking generally here.
 
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UncleMark said:
Not really. Franken crossed the line. No, she shouldn't "be perfectly fine" with what he did. I just have difficulty mustering up much sympathy for women who have marketed themselves as sex objects objecting when they are treated as sex objects. I know that makes me some kind of Neanderthal.
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It shouldn't be comparative. Regardless of what she is wearing, what she chooses to do with he her free will, its wrong to force a woman ( or a man) to do something sexually they don't want to.
 
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UncleMark said:
I just have difficulty mustering up much sympathy for women who have marketed themselves as sex objects objecting when they are treated as sex objects.
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zeke4ahs said:
It shouldn't be comparative. Regardless of what she is wearing, what she chooses to do with he her free will, its wrong to force a woman ( or a man) to do something sexually they don't want to.
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I'm not trying to justify my thinking on this particular situation. I'm just owning up to it. And to tell the truth, I don't think I'm unique.

And yes, it bothers me a bit, as I know I probably should be better than that. Maybe in time...
 
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cosmickid said:
It was taken on a USA tour when he was a comedian.It's undoubtedly not proper conduct for a sitting Senator,and may just be a little more acceptable for a comedian trying to get a laugh.But let's at least concede that he was not a member of the US Govt at that point in time...
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Yep, my mistake on the timing. But I don’t think his behavior is acceptable for anyone. Although I guess I can understand your point.
 
UncleMark said:
I'm not trying to justify my thinking on this particular situation. I'm just owning up to it. And to tell the truth, I don't think I'm unique.

And yes, it bothers me a bit, as I know I probably should be better than that. Maybe in time...
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Honestly, you're probably right in lots of people think that way, but just won't admit it.
 
Rockfish1 said:
Your posts in this thread are stupid. On one hand we have people like Ailes, Weinstein, Spacey, and Moore who spent careers abusing power relationships to extract sexual favors from vulnerable women in a culture that condoned what they did and shielded them from consequence. This thing with Franken is not remotely like that, just as a geriatric GHWB groping women from his wheelchair wasn't remotely like that. Still wrong, but not equivalent.

Maybe it will turn out that Franken is a bad guy like the others. If so, screw him. But in the meantime, it helps no one to insist on foolish consistencies. We should treat like things alike, but not all things are the same. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

______________________________________

Also, and I'd really rather not get in the weeds in this response, but if someone touches your flak jacket, can they feel your breasts? Can you feel their hands? My guess is no. Also, it doesn't appear in the picture that Franken is actually touching the flak jacket. He's pretending to grope a sleeping woman for an off color photo. He had no business doing that, and Tweeden is certainly within her rights to take offense at being so used, but it's not remotely equivalent to anything the others are accused of.
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What about shoving his tongue down her throat? Some of the women/girls Moore allegedly said he never touched them, but just was creepy.
 
VanPastorMan said:
Good job of deflection. I was commenting on Rock's comment. If any man touches or grabs women when they told them not to then they are unfit for office. Therefore if these stories are true, then both Moore and Franken should step down.
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So it’s ok to grab women or girls until they tell you not to? Did Tweeden tell Franken not to grab her breasts? I thought she was asleep.
 
I haven't read the thread, but If any women wait more than 6 days to report this activity and it happens again, from the same perp.... That woman is an accessory! If you don't report knowing that someone committed homicide your ass in in trouble, same with this crap as far as I am concerned.

So much for being a champion of women, letting a known male tear down another women. As far as I am concerned, women should be in a full blown pissing match with each other for allowing 2nd/ 3rd/ 4th occurrences happen. You want to be treated as men, stand the hell up and put an end to this stuff before your sisters go through what you have.

OK having said that, anyone else decided to not talk to any women, ever? One accusation is all it takes. you pigs.
 
IUCrazy2 said:
For you, I think you just got into a little whataboutism with trying to assign degrees of severity. Franken tongue kissing Tweeden without consent under the guise of "rehearsing" is similar behavior to Spacey and Weinstein.

As to the shot at "liberals", that mainly comes from being associated with some kind of "war on women" because of how I vote when some of the biggest supporters of the people leveling that accusation, and in some cases those who level it themselves, are that which they accuse others of in spades. I hate women because I do not believe in abortion but rapist Weinstein was a okay because he threw money to the cause.

Rock's flak jacket comment is up for people to read and decide on. I full stand behind what I said on that. Stick his wife or significant other in that same situation and, joke or not, Franken would probably have a black eye at the least. I do not care how much "protection" my wife may have, you grab at her breasts without consent, I am knocking you the **** out. Rock should have just left it at being indefensible. If a drunk female cannot provide consent when awake, then a sleeping female cannot provide it either.

As to Bill and Mike, they both pointed out Tweeden's past and that she was a conservative and left the "so she asked for it" as the unsaid understood. As you all would think if I made the same comments about somebody like O'Reilly feeling up an actress like Sharon Stone or a singer lime Madonna. Their proclivity to get nude for a job, act provocatively, or hold positions I feel may be open to ridicule gives me zero reason to feel I can put my hands on them.

Hope we clear now.
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I said it’s wrong. But unlike others, he admitted it and didn’t try to blame the victim.

In that regard, it IS different. His fate may ultimately be the same however. And that’s perfectly fine.
 
Joe_Hoopsier said:
I haven't read the thread, but If any women wait more than 6 days to report this activity and it happens again, from the same perp.... That woman is an accessory! If you don't report knowing that someone committed homicide your ass in in trouble, same with this crap as far as I am concerned.

So much for being a champion of women, letting a known male tear down another women. As far as I am concerned, women should be in a full blown pissing match with each other for allowing 2nd/ 3rd/ 4th occurrences happen. You want to be treated as men, stand the hell up and put an end to this stuff before your sisters go through what you have.

OK having said that, anyone else decided to not talk to any women, ever? One accusation is all it takes. you pigs.
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I'm going to have to wait awhile to digest all this. But wow.
 
Joe_Hoopsier said:
I haven't read the thread, but If any women wait more than 6 days to report this activity and it happens again, from the same perp.... That woman is an accessory! If you don't report knowing that someone committed homicide your ass in in trouble, same with this crap as far as I am concerned.

So much for being a champion of women, letting a known male tear down another women. As far as I am concerned, women should be in a full blown pissing match with each other for allowing 2nd/ 3rd/ 4th occurrences happen. You want to be treated as men, stand the hell up and put an end to this stuff before your sisters go through what you have.

OK having said that, anyone else decided to not talk to any women, ever? One accusation is all it takes. you pigs.
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Thanks Joe. I was tired of being the pig in the thread. Appreciate the relief.
 
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IUCrazy2 said:
For you, I think you just got into a little whataboutism with trying to assign degrees of severity. Franken tongue kissing Tweeden without consent under the guise of "rehearsing" is similar behavior to Spacey and Weinstein.

As to the shot at "liberals", that mainly comes from being associated with some kind of "war on women" because of how I vote when some of the biggest supporters of the people leveling that accusation, and in some cases those who level it themselves, are that which they accuse others of in spades. I hate women because I do not believe in abortion but rapist Weinstein was a okay because he threw money to the cause.

Rock's flak jacket comment is up for people to read and decide on. I full stand behind what I said on that. Stick his wife or significant other in that same situation and, joke or not, Franken would probably have a black eye at the least. I do not care how much "protection" my wife may have, you grab at her breasts without consent, I am knocking you the **** out. Rock should have just left it at being indefensible. If a drunk female cannot provide consent when awake, then a sleeping female cannot provide it either.

As to Bill and Mike, they both pointed out Tweeden's past and that she was a conservative and left the "so she asked for it" as the unsaid understood. As you all would think if I made the same comments about somebody like O'Reilly feeling up an actress like Sharon Stone or a singer lime Madonna. Their proclivity to get nude for a job, act provocatively, or hold positions I feel may be open to ridicule gives me zero reason to feel I can put my hands on them.

Hope we clear now.
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I didn’t see the time stamp on this before I replied to your post. Franken did fess up. It just took him two statement to do it. In terms of severity and actions taken afterward, his stands out from he others.

However, let me be clear. ANY unwanted sexual touching/kissing is inappropriate in ANY situation.

And, like I said the first time, if Franken truly engaged in this behavior often, it’ll come out very soon.

I don’t play this “but what about ____” chit. I call a spade a spade. Many here have confused my (justified) extreme dislike of Trump for blind partisanship. Like I’ve said multiple times before, if he had remained a Democrat, I’d dislike him just as much as I do now.
 
Joe_Hoopsier said:
I haven't read the thread, but If any women wait more than 6 days to report this activity and it happens again, from the same perp.... That woman is an accessory! If you don't report knowing that someone committed homicide your ass in in trouble, same with this crap as far as I am concerned.

So much for being a champion of women, letting a known male tear down another women. As far as I am concerned, women should be in a full blown pissing match with each other for allowing 2nd/ 3rd/ 4th occurrences happen. You want to be treated as men, stand the hell up and put an end to this stuff before your sisters go through what you have.

OK having said that, anyone else decided to not talk to any women, ever? One accusation is all it takes. you pigs.
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Wow. I think you are wise not to talk to any women, ever.
 
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Joe_Hoopsier said:
I haven't read the thread, but If any women wait more than 6 days to report this activity and it happens again, from the same perp.... That woman is an accessory! If you don't report knowing that someone committed homicide your ass in in trouble, same with this crap as far as I am concerned.

So much for being a champion of women, letting a known male tear down another women. As far as I am concerned, women should be in a full blown pissing match with each other for allowing 2nd/ 3rd/ 4th occurrences happen. You want to be treated as men, stand the hell up and put an end to this stuff before your sisters go through what you have.

OK having said that, anyone else decided to not talk to any women, ever? One accusation is all it takes. you pigs.
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What?
 
wiede said:
I didn’t see the time stamp on this before I replied to your post. Franken did fess up. It just took him two statement to do it. In terms of severity and actions taken afterward, his stands out from he others.

However, let me be clear. ANY unwanted sexual touching/kissing is inappropriate in ANY situation.

And, like I said the first time, if Franken truly engaged in this behavior often, it’ll come out very soon.

I don’t play this “but what about ____” chit. I call a spade a spade. Many here have confused my (justified) extreme dislike of Trump for blind partisanship. Like I’ve said multiple times before, if he had remained a Democrat, I’d dislike him just as much as I do now.
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Well of course he fessed up. Did you see the photograph with his hands on her....clothes (HT: Rockfish).

What good would come from a denial?
 
iuwclurker1 said:
I disagree that CK had no choice. Everyone has the choice of lying or telling the truth and the precedent he set was to tell the truth. It's a precedent in the current context insofar as all the others are denying some or all of the victim's account. That's all I'm saying about CK's precedent. Nothing else. Jacking off in front of a woman without her consent strikes me as really sick behavior.

I don't need to make any assumptions about Franken. Sticking to his statement, he says we should believe the women's stories and in the same sentence suggests that he doesn't. Period. Can't have it both ways, Al.
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I’d hate to only see the world in black and white terms, like you apparently do. There is no contradiction here. It’s entirely possible that he misinterpreted the situation, and screwed up one time. It seems that he didn’t repeat the behavior with her. And the photo is classless and wrong, but he didn’t actually touch her breasts. He’s a comedian, and is used to doing things that are subversive and inappropriate. Doesn’t excuse the behavior. But it may explain it a little.

Again, if Franken operates this way all the time, we will know soon enough.

The world exists in multiple shades of color- I’m sorry you can’t see that truth.

Again, so I’m clear, what he did was 100% wrong. As he admitted.

It’s amazing how people have the capacity to forgive once someone apologizes and shows genuine remorse. That’s the real difference here between Franken and the others that have been mentioned. Not to mention the fact that some of these guys did things to underage girls.

And, quite frankly, I’m very disappointed in him. It sucks, but at least he’s trying to make amends. He called for a damn ethics investigation- on himself. He’s clearly owning up to it.
 
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wiede said:
I’d hate to only see the world in black and white terms, like you apparently do. There is no contradiction here. It’s entirely possible that he misinterpreted the situation, and screwed up one time. It seems that he didn’t repeat the behavior with her. And the photo is classless and wrong, but he didn’t actually touch her breasts. He’s a comedian, and is used to doing things that are subversive and inappropriate. Doesn’t excuse the behavior. But it may explain it a little.

Again, if Franken operates this way all the time, we will know soon enough.

The world exists in multiple shades of color- I’m sorry you can’t see that truth.

Again, so I’m clear, what he did was 100% wrong. As he admitted.

It’s amazing how people have the capacity to forgive once someone apologizes and shows genuine remorse. That’s the real difference here between Franken and the others that have been mentioned. Not to mention the fact that some of these guys did things to underage girls.

And, quite frankly, I’m very disappointed in him. It sucks, but at least he’s trying to make amends. He called for a damn ethics investigation- on himself. He’s clearly owning up to it.
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He's not doing anything but trying to save his seat. He's obviously angling for a censure.

And, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give any points to anybody for fessing up to something that was caught on film.
 
wiede said:
And the photo is classless and wrong, but he didn’t actually touch her breasts. He’s a comedian, and is used to doing things that are subversive and inappropriate.
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As a constant defender of comedians on here, I think it's important to underline this point of yours. Comedy should be subversive and make people uncomfortable. What Franken did with the photo was wrong, but it wasn't wrong just because it was a bad joke. It was wrong because he forced someone, without her knowledge, to be a prop in his bad joke. That's not to say a joke can't be worthy of condemnation in its own right, but in this case, Franken went beyond bad comedy - that was just bad behavior, period, in any context.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
What?
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Just when I night Joe (edited, done on my phone earlier) couldn’t disgust me any more, he succeeds in doing so once again.

Clearly, he has never tried to empathize with a woman that has been assualted, and doesn’t understand the dynamics is sexual assault. Especially when the assaulter holds power alober the assaulted.

His comments reek of the same mindest of the Moore supporters. It’s completely divorced from reality at best, and just plain sick st worst. Given his previous comments on this board, it sucks, but I lean towards the latter. I really feel sorry for the women in his life. It must suck to have someone with that viewpoint around.
 
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