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Al Franken's a chickenshit

After one incident, I thought Franken should be censured. Now with a second he needs to go. But I don't get where that columnist is coming from, Minnesota isn't likely to replace Franken with a solid conservative. In all probability there will be a liberal D in that seat.

But her comments are why some of us are disgusted with the system. At no point should any American be "Party Uber Alles". Another reason why we should eliminate party protections and allow them to die, as they used to do. It's like when a coach starts failing, people have too much emotional investiture to let them go. People have too much emotional investiture in being a D or an R that they can't see both should be allowed to die from rot and be replaced by newer, more real, organizations.

If you read the column, she fears that Franken, if he goes, will not be the last one to fall. And, because there are a number of Dem Senators in states with Republican governors, she worries that those Dems could (temporarily, anyway) be replaced by Republicans.

Look, I get what you guys are saying. This is clearly a shameless way to approach these matters. But don't kid yourselves that it's rare. It's not rare -- what's rare is for somebody to be honest about it.
 
After one incident, I thought Franken should be censured. Now with a second he needs to go. But I don't get where that columnist is coming from, Minnesota isn't likely to replace Franken with a solid conservative. In all probability there will be a liberal D in that seat.

But her comments are why some of us are disgusted with the system. At no point should any American be "Party Uber Alles". Another reason why we should eliminate party protections and allow them to die, as they used to do. It's like when a coach starts failing, people have too much emotional investiture to let them go. People have too much emotional investiture in being a D or an R that they can't see both should be allowed to die from rot and be replaced by newer, more real, organizations.

Also, I will say that, for me, none of this has anything to do with emotion. I can't speak for everybody -- I'm sure it is emotional for many people.

But I'm about the least emotional person you'd ever meet. That's not why I voted as I did -- nor did it have anything to do with party loyalty. If Donald Trump had run, as a Republican, on a platform resembling Bernie Sanders', I'd have voted for Hillary.

Despite my belief that it's shameless (which means I have to count my own political behavior similarly), I understand what this author is saying.

There's a whole, whole lot at stake with elections these days.
 
Also, I will say that, for me, none of this has anything to do with emotion. I can't speak for everybody -- I'm sure it is emotional for many people.

But I'm about the least emotional person you'd ever meet. That's not why I voted as I did -- nor did it have anything to do with party loyalty. If Donald Trump had run, as a Republican, on a platform resembling Bernie Sanders', I'd have voted for Hillary.

Despite my belief that it's shameless (which means I have to count my own political behavior similarly), I understand what this author is saying.

There's a whole, whole lot at stake with elections these days.
Your shameless position was clear long before you posted this article and no one's kidding himself that honesty is or isn't in short supply among politicians and others, but this has nothing to do with emotions. You're right that there's a lot at stake, but I doubt you're right about what. What's at stake is the future of this planet, which Republicans are hell-bent on destroying ecologically sooner rather than later, despite any and all lip service to the contrary, and the future of our nation's well being, and conceivably the future of the world if one day Trump happens to wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

It's time for liberals to wake up. Take a cold shower. Have their momma slap them upside the head. Or whatever it takes. Treating women as humans is just one of many important issues but women make up the majority of humans, so it's a deeply significant issue. The cat's out of the bag now, with the Trump Catastrophe and #MeToo. There's no turning back.

Side note: It's telling that it's worse to be a liberal predator than a conservative one. That's good. Like you, I believe most Evangelicals are normal. Democrats can win many of them over by taking the high road here. That'll send shock waves through your shameless homeland.
 
Your shameless position was clear long before you posted this article and no one's kidding himself that honesty is or isn't in short supply among politicians and others, but this has nothing to do with emotions. You're right that there's a lot at stake, but I doubt you're right about what. What's at stake is the future of this planet, which Republicans are hell-bent on destroying ecologically sooner rather than later, despite any and all lip service to the contrary, and the future of our nation's well being, and conceivably the future of the world if one day Trump happens to wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

It's time for liberals to wake up. Take a cold shower. Have their momma slap them upside the head. Or whatever it takes. Treating women as humans is just one of many important issues but women make up the majority of humans, so it's a deeply significant issue. The cat's out of the bag now, with the Trump Catastrophe and #MeToo. There's no turning back.

Side note: It's telling that it's worse to be a liberal predator than a conservative one. That's good. Like you, I believe most Evangelicals are normal. Democrats can win many of them over by taking the high road here. That'll send shock waves through your shameless homeland.

Heh, well, maybe. But I'm pretty sure that climate change and the prospect of environmental armageddon -- whether it should be or not -- is pretty low on the list of things motivating most voters these days.
 
Heh, well, maybe. But I'm pretty sure that climate change and the prospect of environmental armageddon -- whether it should be or not -- is pretty low on the list of things motivating most voters these days.
I think you're right but wrong about that. Young people care a lot about the planet. This is one of the ways Bernie got them motivated. Getting young people to vote is the Holy Grail of American politics. They will vote if you give them something to get enthusiastic about.
 
I think you're right but wrong about that. Young people care a lot about the planet. This is one of the ways Bernie got them motivated. Getting young people to vote is the Holy Grail of American politics. They will vote if you give them something to get enthusiastic about.

There's polling data on this. No need to guess.

Nobody cares. Even Bill Maher and his recent guest were baffled about this.

It doesn't seem that hard to figure out, IMO.
 
Also, I will say that, for me, none of this has anything to do with emotion. I can't speak for everybody -- I'm sure it is emotional for many people.

But I'm about the least emotional person you'd ever meet. That's not why I voted as I did -- nor did it have anything to do with party loyalty. If Donald Trump had run, as a Republican, on a platform resembling Bernie Sanders', I'd have voted for Hillary.

Despite my belief that it's shameless (which means I have to count my own political behavior similarly), I understand what this author is saying.

There's a whole, whole lot at stake with elections these days.
Trump is the only time I have felt we have a choice that is one who could damn the country. That fear is still there.

But all the others back to Reagan, I did not see us in a war. Bush 43 is a great example, he could have still done good things but for 9/11 and a horrible Iraq decision (a decision I supported at that time). We are not in a life and death struggle. We have elected bad presidents and come through. We will find out if that is true of Presidents who refuse to learn.

If we lose a spot, we lose a spot. I am skeptical that spot casts the vote to teach apes to use human weapons. That decision might be made at the executive level anyway and we have elected one there that might do that.

This all might be born of my refusal to "be a Democrat". But if the Dems lose seats because they never figured out how to vet sex offenders, then they deserve to lose seats.

Besides, nothing really means someone will vote Democratic like a couple years of Republican rule, and vice versa.
 
Part of Al Franken's Thanksgiving message to his constituents:

"I've met tens of thousands of people and taken thousands of photographs, often in crowded and chaotic situations. I'm a warm person, I hug people," Franken said in a Thanksgiving Day statement released to the Minnesota Star Tribune. "I've learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters, I crossed the line for some women -- and I know that any number is too many."
Compare to this:

“He put his hand full-fledged on my rear. It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek. It wasn't around my waist. It wasn't around my hip or side. It was definitely on my butt.”
and this:

“I shook his hand, and he put his arm around my waist and held it there. Then he moved it lower and cupped my butt.”​

Shit, meet chicken. He says:

“Some women have found my greetings or embraces for a hug or photo inappropriate, and I respect their feelings about that. I’ve thought a lot in recent days about how that could happen, and recognize that I need to be much more careful and sensitive in these situations."
No, Al, do us a real favor. Tell us what makes a man like you feel propelled to do what you do. I for one would really like to understand this. Do some soul searching, find somewhere in your dorsal area a semblance of a spine and tell us the unfiltered truth. Is this really because you're able to treat that victim like an object? Treat her like nothing? What is it? Really want to know and I know Roy Moore isn't telling.
 
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Al: "I know there are no magic words that I can say to regain your trust..."

Wrong, Al, there are three very magical words you can say: "I did it." Until then, forget it.

Chickenshit.

Does Franken stand to gain anything from copping to the, er, copping?

You can say "public trust", and that may be correct (to an extent, anyway). But at what potential cost? Would he open himself up to indictment or a civil suit from an ambitious attorney?

And what good is public trust for him if it means he loses his Senate seat (which it very well could)?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Generally speaking, I think the truth is a faultless path, even if it's a difficult truth to bear. At the very least, I do think he should lay it all out there for his wife.

Louis CK admitted what he did. From a purely professional standpoint, anyway, I'm not sure it's going to do much to salvage his standing.
 
Does Franken stand to gain anything from copping to the, er, copping?

You can say "public trust", and that may be correct (to an extent, anyway). But at what potential cost? Would he open himself up to indictment or a civil suit from an ambitious attorney?

And what good is public trust for him if it means he loses his Senate seat (which it very well could)?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Generally speaking, I think the truth is a faultless path, even if it's a difficult truth to bear. At the very least, I do think he should lay it all out there for his wife.

Louis CK admitted what he did. From a purely professional standpoint, anyway, I'm not sure it's going to do much to salvage his standing.
He claimed to want to regain our trust. Unless he thinks we're complete idiots, he's fooling himself thinking we don't know he's lying. He knows he copped feels. He remembers having copped feels. He's lying that he doesn't remember. We know it.* Therefore, no trust till you own it, Al.

In any case, no way he's getting re-elected. He's trying serve out this term.


* Except Lucy of course, who doesn't believe the victims without proof.
 
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