Adult illiteracy rates in big cities

[BradStevens]

1 in 5 Illinois adults is illiterate, but it’s 1 in 4 in Cook County

Research shows income and adult literacy are strongly related. Data from the National Center for Education Statistics show 20% of Illinois adults are “functionally illiterate.” Cook County’s rate is 25%.

www.illinoispolicy.org

The rates seem higher than we should expect. (I think it would be a mistake to think they can be at or near zero).

Bronx County at an astounding 50%.

This seems like an important area to attack if we want to address racial income and wealth disparities in this country (although I’m not sure the racial/ethnic breakdown).

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

1 in 5 Illinois adults is illiterate, but it’s 1 in 4 in Cook County

Research shows income and adult literacy are strongly related. Data from the National Center for Education Statistics show 20% of Illinois adults are “functionally illiterate.” Cook County’s rate is 25%.

www.illinoispolicy.org

The rates seem higher than we should expect. (I think it would be a mistake to think they can be at or near zero).

Bronx County at an astounding 50%.

This seems like an important area to attack if we want to address racial income and wealth disparities in this country (although I’m not sure the racial/ethnic breakdown).

Isn't this as much of a problem, if not bigger, in poor rural counties? Why the focus on big cities?

 

[BradStevens]

Isn't this as much of a problem, if not bigger, in poor rural counties? Why the focus on big cities?

I don't know.
Here is a very old study (1986) that contradicts your intuition:

13% OF ADULTS ILLITERATE, MOST ARE IN URBAN AREAS, STUDY SAYS

At least 13 percent of American adults cannot understand simple instructions written in English and illiteracy is five times higher in cities than rural areas, a government study showed Monday. The…

www.sun-sentinel.com

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Literacy rate by county

 

[snarlcakes]

1 in 5 Illinois adults is illiterate, but it’s 1 in 4 in Cook County

Research shows income and adult literacy are strongly related. Data from the National Center for Education Statistics show 20% of Illinois adults are “functionally illiterate.” Cook County’s rate is 25%.

www.illinoispolicy.org

The rates seem higher than we should expect. (I think it would be a mistake to think they can be at or near zero).

Bronx County at an astounding 50%.

This seems like an important area to attack if we want to address racial income and wealth disparities in this country (although I’m not sure the racial/ethnic breakdown).

Sorry, I couldn’t read the article.

 

[Univee2]

Literacy rate by county

Looks like the upper plains and mountain states got it going.

 

[snarlcakes]

1 in 5 Illinois adults is illiterate, but it’s 1 in 4 in Cook County

Research shows income and adult literacy are strongly related. Data from the National Center for Education Statistics show 20% of Illinois adults are “functionally illiterate.” Cook County’s rate is 25%.

www.illinoispolicy.org

The rates seem higher than we should expect. (I think it would be a mistake to think they can be at or near zero).

Bronx County at an astounding 50%.

This seems like an important area to attack if we want to address racial income and wealth disparities in this country (although I’m not sure the racial/ethnic breakdown).

Serious question. Does it include 1st and 2nd generation immigrants in the numbers?

 

[hookyIU1990]

Isn't this as much of a problem, if not bigger, in poor rural counties? Why the focus on big cities?

Numbers? 12.5 million in Illinois. 9 million in Chicago Metro area.

1 in 5 of 3.5 million outside of Chicago metro is 700k illiterate people.

1 in 4 of 9 million in Chicago metro is 2.25 million illiterate people.

I'm sure there are other reasons at play, but that's likely the justification used for not focusing on rural areas.

 

[BradStevens]

Literacy rate by county

I don't know what to glean from this.

A few things I think important to clarify or think about in reading any stats here (including what I posted):

(1) literacy rate is less important here than illiteracy, I think. For this, I think a more binary approach useful (although that is rarely the case in human affairs).

(2) As snarl pointed out, we have to be careful to separate out native speakers with ESL participants (the effect is the same, but the cause much different).

 

[hookyIU1990]

As an aside, I've never heard of the Illinois Policy Institute before. I can certainly pick up what they're putting down though.
_________________________________________________

The Illinois Policy Institute believes:

• That civil and personal liberties must be protected and preserved.
• Illinois should be a place where people of all talents, interests and cultural backgrounds can succeed with hard work and ingenuity.
• In effective, efficient, honest and transparent government that is accountable to taxpayers and residents in need, not political special interests.
• That the best policies empower people – and limit the power of government.
• That a public pension system that threatens to bankrupt our state, drive down economic growth and evaporate retirements for public-sector workers is immoral — but that modest reforms can solve this crisis.
• Property taxes must be brought under control so people are not forced out of their homes.
• Workers deserve the right to choose whether a labor union serves their values and interests.
• Economic policy should focus on creating jobs and opportunities for all.
• Voters deserve choices at the ballot box and no politician is entitled to a “safe” seat.
• Each child should have access to educational opportunities that prepare them for the future.

Our Story | Illinois Policy

www.illinoispolicy.org

 

[mcmurtry66]

Numbers? 12.5 million in Illinois. 9 million in Chicago Metro area.

1 in 5 of 3.5 million outside of Chicago metro is 700k illiterate people.

1 in 4 of 9 million in Chicago metro is 2.25 million illiterate people.

I'm sure there are other reasons at play, but that's likely the justification used for not focusing on rural areas.

my daughter is in 7th grade and already speaks spanish. it's sad that we have this disparity outside of what snarl noted about 1st gen etc.

 

[BradStevens]

As an aside, I've never heard of the Illinois Policy Institute before. I can certainly pick up what they're putting down though.
_________________________________________________

The Illinois Policy Institute believes:

• That civil and personal liberties must be protected and preserved.
• Illinois should be a place where people of all talents, interests and cultural backgrounds can succeed with hard work and ingenuity.
• In effective, efficient, honest and transparent government that is accountable to taxpayers and residents in need, not political special interests.
• That the best policies empower people – and limit the power of government.
• That a public pension system that threatens to bankrupt our state, drive down economic growth and evaporate retirements for public-sector workers is immoral — but that modest reforms can solve this crisis.
• Property taxes must be brought under control so people are not forced out of their homes.
• Workers deserve the right to choose whether a labor union serves their values and interests.
• Economic policy should focus on creating jobs and opportunities for all.
• Voters deserve choices at the ballot box and no politician is entitled to a “safe” seat.
• Each child should have access to educational opportunities that prepare them for the future.

Our Story | Illinois Policy

www.illinoispolicy.org

It's a useful corrective in a one-party area. Just as reading left-leaning journals and writing in Texas helps gives you a better picture, overall, of what is going on there.

 

[twenty02]

my daughter is in 7th grade and already speaks spanish. it's sad that we have this disparity outside of what snarl noted about 1st gen etc.

Venti Crème Frappe isn't Spanish.

 

[hoot1]

Serious question. Does it include 1st and 2nd generation immigrants in the numbers?

Interesting Christmas discussion between my Son and eldest Grandson revealed both of their businesses (fast food and wholesale food processing) included a reliance on dependable employees with low turnover rates.

Included in these dependable employees were first and second generation immigrants who also were low income workers. Dependability and low pay adds up to profits for owners.

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your outlook, the emphasis in passing on the importance of hard work with education being of less importance can lock in generations of borderline poverty families.

Also it should be noted, it is the urban areas which often are the places were illiterate rural workers end up living.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Literacy rate by county

Got damn, feels good to be literate af and around other literate people

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Looks like the upper plains and mountain states got it going.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

my daughter is in 7th grade and already speaks spanish. it's sad that we have this disparity outside of what snarl noted about 1st gen etc.

I was going to make a mean pool boy or gardener joke, but I’ll refrain since it’s the holidays!

 

[DANC]

1 in 5 Illinois adults is illiterate, but it’s 1 in 4 in Cook County

Research shows income and adult literacy are strongly related. Data from the National Center for Education Statistics show 20% of Illinois adults are “functionally illiterate.” Cook County’s rate is 25%.

www.illinoispolicy.org

The rates seem higher than we should expect. (I think it would be a mistake to think they can be at or near zero).

Bronx County at an astounding 50%.

This seems like an important area to attack if we want to address racial income and wealth disparities in this country (although I’m not sure the racial/ethnic breakdown).

I knew Chicagoans are dumber than the rest of America.

It's almost like throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it......

 

[DANC]

my daughter is in 7th grade and already speaks spanish. it's sad that we have this disparity outside of what snarl noted about 1st gen etc.

My granddaughter is going to kindergarten next year at a magnet school that teaches only in Spanish. Then from 1st grade on, it's 50/50 Spanish/English.

I'll be interested to see how she does.

 

[UncleMark]

I'd like to see how these people operate in the real world:

One-fifth of Illinois adults are functionally illiterate, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. That means they cannot understand the meaning of sentences, locate information on pages or complete simple forms, all of which would affect their abilities to hold many jobs.​

In my lifetime I've dealt with a lot of this. For most of those types, they're able to adapt -- they're still able to hold a job and function in the real world. Not that it's not a factor in their station in life, but it doesn't necessarily make them unemployable or otherwise helpless.

One forty-something full time delivery driver we had was so computer illiterate that he couldn't clock himself in and out at work and had to get someone to do it for him. (He has since moved on to a better job and has done well there for a couple years.) We have another young twenty-something driver whose hand written log sheet -- where he writes down where and when he delivers -- is totally illegible. Nevertheless, he gets his stuff to the right place at the right time and does a great job for us.

Illiteracy is a problem, yes, but people are resilient and most are able to overcome their handicaps.

 

[hoot1]

I'd like to see how these people operate in the real world:

One-fifth of Illinois adults are functionally illiterate, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. That means they cannot understand the meaning of sentences, locate information on pages or complete simple forms, all of which would affect their abilities to hold many jobs.​

In my lifetime I've dealt with a lot of this. For most of those types, they're able to adapt -- they're still able to hold a job and function in the real world. Not that it's not a factor in their station in life, but it doesn't necessarily make them unemployable or otherwise helpless.

One forty-something full time delivery driver we had was so computer illiterate that he couldn't clock himself in and out at work and had to get someone to do it for him. (He has since moved on to a better job and has done well there for a couple years.) We have another young twenty-something driver whose hand written log sheet -- where he writes down where and when he delivers -- is totally illegible. Nevertheless, he gets his stuff to the right place at the right time and does a great job for us.

Illiteracy is a problem, yes, but people are resilient and most are able to overcome their handicaps.

Uncle Mark, just want to add to your remarks by pointing out being illiterate doesn't mean you are not smart,
or don't have skills along with experience in some occupations.

 

[UncleMark]

Uncle Mark, just want to add to your remarks by pointing out being illiterate doesn't mean you are not smart,
or don't have skills along with experience in some occupations.

Most definitely. Many of the people I've worked with over the years would be considered artists or craftsmen of the highest order, and a not-insignificant number could barely write their names.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Shoot, look how the Trumpers have adapted to be able to post polls and link tweets on this board.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I don't know.
Here is a very old study (1986) that contradicts your intuition:

13% OF ADULTS ILLITERATE, MOST ARE IN URBAN AREAS, STUDY SAYS

At least 13 percent of American adults cannot understand simple instructions written in English and illiteracy is five times higher in cities than rural areas, a government study showed Monday. The…

www.sun-sentinel.com

His answer was inevitable if you know how he thinks:

Democrats good, Republicans bad.
Literacy good, illiteracy bad.
Urban areas have more Democrats, rural areas have more Republicans.
Therefore, urban areas must have less illiteracy than rural areas.
Post it without doing any checking . . .

Simple as that.

 

[BradStevens]

His answer was inevitable if you know how he thinks:

Democrats good, Republicans bad.
Literacy good, illiteracy bad.
Urban areas have more Democrats, rural areas have more Republicans.
Therefore, urban areas must have less illiteracy than rural areas.
Post it without doing any checking . . .

Simple as that.

That’s not very generous. It could have been that he has experience with rural education systems, their relative lack of money, etc.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

That’s not very generous. It could have been that he has experience with rural education systems, their relative lack of money, etc.

I think it's pretty accurate. It's definitely an honest take on my part. He's got a long record of posts which essentially say, "Democrats good, Republicans bad."

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I think it's pretty accurate. It's definitely an honest take on my part. He's got a long record of posts which essentially say, "Democrats good, Republicans bad."

I do?
BTW, not sure I framed this as a D = good, R = bad topic.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think it's pretty accurate. It's definitely an honest take on my part. He's got a long record of posts which essentially say, "Democrats good, Republicans bad."

But he’s funny. Distinguishes him from many/most of the libs. That’s value

 

[hookyIU1990]

But he’s funny. Distinguishes him from many/most of the partisan hacks. That’s value

FIFY

 

[BradStevens]

I'd like to see how these people operate in the real world:

One-fifth of Illinois adults are functionally illiterate, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. That means they cannot understand the meaning of sentences, locate information on pages or complete simple forms, all of which would affect their abilities to hold many jobs.​

In my lifetime I've dealt with a lot of this. For most of those types, they're able to adapt -- they're still able to hold a job and function in the real world. Not that it's not a factor in their station in life, but it doesn't necessarily make them unemployable or otherwise helpless.

One forty-something full time delivery driver we had was so computer illiterate that he couldn't clock himself in and out at work and had to get someone to do it for him. (He has since moved on to a better job and has done well there for a couple years.) We have another young twenty-something driver whose hand written log sheet -- where he writes down where and when he delivers -- is totally illegible. Nevertheless, he gets his stuff to the right place at the right time and does a great job for us.

Illiteracy is a problem, yes, but people are resilient and most are able to overcome their handicaps.

To move back to the topic at hand, I think it's fine to note that being illiterate doesn't make you less worthy as a person. I wholeheartedly agree.

But it's an issue that needs attention. But to take your observation re master tradesmen, etc., are black people equally represented within the artisan/master trade group? If not, why not?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I do?
BTW, not sure I framed this as a D = good, R = bad topic.

Whoops, I apologize. I was talking about ButHerEmails. I was certain that Brad was responding to him. You're not nearly the hyper-partisan that he is. That's a good description of what seems to be his thought process, not yours!

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Whoops, I apologize. I was talking about ButHerEmails. I was certain that Brad was responding to him. You're not nearly the hyperpartisan that he is. That's a good description of what seems to be his thought process, not yours!

Now, who's illiterate?

 

[Bloom.]

I don't know.
Here is a very old study (1986) that contradicts your intuition:

13% OF ADULTS ILLITERATE, MOST ARE IN URBAN AREAS, STUDY SAYS

At least 13 percent of American adults cannot understand simple instructions written in English and illiteracy is five times higher in cities than rural areas, a government study showed Monday. The…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Can't access the article, but hopefully it doesn't just say there are more illiterate adults in urban areas.

 

[hookyIU1990]

I'd like to see how these people operate in the real world:

One-fifth of Illinois adults are functionally illiterate, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. That means they cannot understand the meaning of sentences, locate information on pages or complete simple forms, all of which would affect their abilities to hold many jobs.​

In my lifetime I've dealt with a lot of this. For most of those types, they're able to adapt -- they're still able to hold a job and function in the real world. Not that it's not a factor in their station in life, but it doesn't necessarily make them unemployable or otherwise helpless.

One forty-something full time delivery driver we had was so computer illiterate that he couldn't clock himself in and out at work and had to get someone to do it for him. (He has since moved on to a better job and has done well there for a couple years.) We have another young twenty-something driver whose hand written log sheet -- where he writes down where and when he delivers -- is totally illegible. Nevertheless, he gets his stuff to the right place at the right time and does a great job for us.

Illiteracy is a problem, yes, but people are resilient and most are able to overcome their handicaps.

One of my favorite Rothbard quotes. As a kid in the middle of nowhere Indiana, I was exposed to plenty of "old men" who never finished high school or barely did, who could do many things that 95% of today's college grads couldn't figure out.

Figuring roof, stairs, grade, etc... is all trig and geometry. Second nature to carpenters, but put a book of either in front of them and they'd balk at trying to do it. Tell them you want stairs with a landing and they'll sketch it out on a piece of cardboard with all the math done in their head and measurements notated on the cardboard.

 

[mcmurtry66]

One of my favorite Rothbard quotes. As a kid in the middle of nowhere Indiana, I was exposed to plenty of "old men" who never finished high school or barely did, who could do many things that 95% of today's college grads couldn't figure out.

Figuring roof, stairs, grade, etc... is all trig and geometry. Second nature to carpenters, but put a book of either in front of them and they'd balk at trying to do it. Tell them you want stairs with a landing and they'll sketch it out on a piece of cardboard with all the math done in their head and measurements notated on the cardboard.

yep. survivors too. like this collection of dream teamers. all of em in indiana. we probably know them. two fisherman and a guy who spent a week in a crushed truck

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/27/us/indiana-man-crash-rescue-fishermen/index.html

 

[hookyIU1990]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/27/us/indiana-man-crash-rescue-fishermen/index.html

What a crazy story. How is that dude not tits up after a week of being trapped in that truck?

 

[mcmurtry66]

What a crazy story. How is that dude not tits up after a week of being trapped in that truck?

no kidding!

 

[hoot1]

The site which Bulk posted showed literacy by state and county. My grasp of this post illustrated to me that most states are fairly uniform in terms of literacy with a few counties being an exception.

Guess this shouldn't be surprising as state governments control education. The Dem v. Pub, and urban v. rural may be of less importance than one might think.

 

[Bloom.]

One of my favorite Rothbard quotes. As a kid in the middle of nowhere Indiana, I was exposed to plenty of "old men" who never finished high school or barely did, who could do many things that 95% of today's college grads couldn't figure out.

Figuring roof, stairs, grade, etc... is all trig and geometry. Second nature to carpenters, but put a book of either in front of them and they'd balk at trying to do it. Tell them you want stairs with a landing and they'll sketch it out on a piece of cardboard with all the math done in their head and measurements notated on the cardboard.

Experience is the best teacher, but it's not exactly the full range of trig or geometry. Building stairs isn't exactly difficult.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Experience is the best teacher, but it's not exactly the full range of trig or geometry. Building stairs isn't exactly difficult.

You'd be lost from the jump.