A Few Musings About IU

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Responding to an earlier thread, I suggested that Rayl, Alford, Edwards, Cheaney, Guyton et all didn't shoot well enough to get invited to Matt Roth's game of horse. If Yogi, JBJ and RJ show up in Matt's back yard, maybe Matt gets torched.Last year was there even one person in Hoosier Nation that could conceive of Colin Hartman being the starting center for IU?If I'm Matt Painter (let me state that I am still waiting for that call from Purdue), I invoke the Tom Crean practice rule for Cody Zeller from 5 years ago. No basket counts unless Hammons or Haas first gets a touch. I say this having no idea whether Hammons or Haas have the skills to hit the cutter or kick the ball out.I'm amazed that many coaches are adjusting to "go small" against IU (OSU, Illinois, Maryland) rather than exploit their size advantage. State Penn didn't go small and played IU tough in Assembly Hall. Watching how Purdue chooses to play will be interesting.There are many threads on this board commenting on how IU regains "elite" status. Tough, game in - game out defense is a prerequisite. I'm sure TC believes in tough defense, even if he doesn't have the pieces to implement it. RMK wanted to bench Luke Recker and insert a better defender. Louisville plays tough defense. There are teams out there that will stymie this year's IU team.I've been a Troy Williams fan for 2 years, at least on the court. If he considers jumping to the NBA, whom can he guard at the NBA level? The NBA leaves a trail of shattered dreams from players who couldn't defend.There is a thread that compares the 2014-2015 IU to the 1989 IU team (you know, playing 3 guards). Who would you rather have: * Jones, Edwards, Hillman


* Yogi, JBJ, RJ

If you are an RMK loyalist, ask yourself whom could Hillman guard when matched up with Yogi, JBJ and RJ?


This post was edited on 1/23 2:31 PM by Fred C. Dobbs

 

[kkott]

agree with 2, 5, 7 and 8. #1? Your exuberence cup runneth over. Matt was

a great shooter, but I'd never put him in the class of Rayl, Alford or Edwards, and I'd put those 3 above AJ and Calbert. The difference to me in those guys is that they still could score being the other teams primary target. Matt got open looks because he wasn't; none of the others you listed had that advantage and were still great shooters. Maybe Roth could take any of them in his back yard, but I think that's the only time I'd rather have him shooting the ball than those first 3. Yogi and JBJ are good, but I'm not ready to put them in that class of shooters yet; and definitely not at the head of that class.

I agree on your pt 5. I think last night Turgeon did it out of the futility he was seeing from his "regulars". I think it's a mistake to not be who your identity is. Our identity is pushing the ball and spreading the floor with shooters. I suppose CTC could try and match the other teams lineup, but he's being successful because that's who we are and he recognizes they have to guard us at the other end too. If I were a post dominant team, I'd definitely try and play to that advantage. I think if you don't feel good about your posts guarding on the perimeter, you should just try a zone of some sort. Last night was an anomaly just because of how well we shot the ball, so I think you almost have to throw that one out. That was great shooting, even for this team of shooters.

 

[iuaddsheet2]

I think Hartman will be better than Dakich

I think he is already better than him now.

 

[Sope Creek]

Would you assign Hartman . . .

a collegiate version of Michael Jordan to guard . . . with Dean Smith as the opposing coach?

Of course, the last clause in that question seals the answer . . . .

This post was edited on 1/23 1:33 PM by Sope Creek

 

[Sope Creek]

RJ over Jones . . . (Can't use a greater than symbol in the subject line?)

Yogi > Hillman (except in baseball), and JBJ isn't as streaky/inconsistent as Edwards was . . . .

This post was edited on 1/23 1:45 PM by Sope Creek

 

[Let 'er Fly]

i think OP was talking about Rayl Alford today

They are much older now. (Is Rayl alive?)
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[Univee2]

Reports of his death have been greatly exaggerated.

He's 73, I believe. He was an outstanding shooter. Like Mount and Maravich, if the 3-point arc had been around at the time, their apgs would have been phenomenal. Not that they weren't, without the trey.

 

[iu1211]

Alford is the best shooter IU ever had. No question about it.

Go IU

 

[Let 'er Fly]

sorry, jimmy, if you're reading this

I should have researched before posting. Would love to see a lot of tape of Rayl playing ball. Was in my mom's era at IU.

Learning IU bball history should be required of every IU freshman.
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[Stuffshot]

Roth never got the chance to show he was as good as Rayl, Alford and Guyton, who were able to play their entire careers without the injuries that Roth suffered.

Rayl played only three years (because freshmen were ineligible then) but I remember he was as good a shooter as Alford. Guyton was close to those two, but I'll place him third in this group. Roth was good but he's down the list somewhere.

 

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Matt Roth

I'm certainly not suggesting that Matt Roth was a superior basketball player to past IU shooters. I am offering that the 2 dimensions of Matt Roth, spot up shooting and long distance shooting, are superior to anyone IU has ever put on the floor. I would put Jimmy Rayl at 2 and Eric Gordon at 3.

Take this hypothetical. IU is down by 1 as time winds down. The point guard drives the lane an drops the ball to the center. The center recognizes the defensive rotation and passes to the open guard in the corner. Who do you want that guard to be. I choose the guard that shoots 65% from the corner.

 

[Tony Warwick]

Brian Evans could shoot lights out

He was a first round pick based primarily on his shooting.
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[Tony Warwick]

how quickly you forgot Jordan Hulls


* All-Time Indiana Effective FG Pct Leader (564.5/936, 60.3%) (439/936, 251/562 3 pt)

* 2nd All-Time Indiana 3 Point Shot Leader (251)

* Consecutive Free Throws Made, Indiana and Big Ten Record Holder (58, 2011-2012)
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[Pelkowski]

Yep, best I've seen

and I have seen them all since '75. Based on consistency, longevity, and competition. Defenses were all over Alford.

 

[Pelkowski]

JBJ, Yogi, RJ by a mile

regarding #7. I never was much of a Hillman fan and Jones was disappointing.

 

[Epictetus]

None more clutch than Jay Edwards

Not just a matter of being a shooter...he had icewater in his veins. I'd want him for my last shot.

 

[Al Bino]

Kind of like at the end of the first half in the 87 Championship game?

Not the exact scenario but Alford was in the corner and drained it.

There are many that would be great in that situation. Alford, Roth, Evans and even Kitchel but my choice would be Edwards. I never saw Rayl play.

 

[IU Scott]

Matt Roth had one great game

and people want to make him out to be this great shooter and i just don't see it.

 

[ufo33]

Jay Edwards was the best clutch shooter ever at IU!

I watched Jay Edwards all the rough his career in High School and at IU. Jay Edwards took many last seconditions clutch shots probably 25 or more. I can't remember Edwards missing any clutch shot that he took at the end of a quarter, half, or end of game. Jay took, and hit, every, single one of them. At the end of the game Jay Edwards


was just incredible on last second clutch shots.

 

[ufo33]

Matt Roth is coaching at state ranked Fort Wayne Blackhawk

Teaching more great Hoosier shooters.