Why don’t teachers trust the experts?

[BradStevens]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

 

[Baller23Boogie]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

My 10 year old hasn't had a textbook since she started school, and she's in 5th grade now, so it's not just your district and it goes beyond high school.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

We’ve started indulging this “people learn in different ways” nonsense.

Some people don’t like text books, or multiple choice exams. We need to do away with them to protect their feelings.

Never mind that no one has come up with a new, better way to benchmark and teach students. We’ll figure that out as we go along.

 

[BradStevens]

My 10 year old hasn't had a textbook since she started school, and she's in 5th grade now, so it's not just your district and it goes beyond high school.

Yep.

Do you think your school district is so great at hiring that they managed to snag a bunch of teachers who could design a curriculum better than the experts who put these textbooks and their corresponding curricula together?

I doubt it. (Every district should be asking the same question).

 

[mcmurtry66]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

Yes yes yes and makes it impossible for parents to follow along

 

[IUNorth]

Not sure if it applies to your school...but unfortunately, in many/most districts, teachers are largely preparing kids for standardized tests more than anything else. And they don't really follow traditional text books.

Its not the teachers fault, its how they're judged, paid, how their school systems receive large parts of their funding.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Yep.

Do you think your school district is so great at hiring that they managed to snag a bunch of teachers who could design a curriculum better than the experts who put these textbooks and their corresponding curricula together?

I doubt it. (Every district should be asking the same question).

I have to agree.

Another issue I see in my school is that teachers jump around from grade to grade. My 10 year old had one of the same teachers as my 17 year old, but the 17 year old had her in 2nd grade and my 10 year old 4th grade.

Uniformity went out the window a long time ago.

 

[BradStevens]

Not sure if it applies to your school...but unfortunately, in many/most districts, teachers are largely preparing kids for standardized tests more than anything else. And they don't really follow traditional text books.

Its not the teachers fault, its how they're judged, paid, how their school systems receive large parts of their funding.

Could you provide a link to a school system that judges or links pay of teachers to the standardized test scores of their students?

Do you believe that no textbooks exist that prepare kids for standardized tests? I doubt that is true.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Yes yes yes and makes it impossible for parents to follow along

When my 10 year old does her math homework and is on the third way to show how to multiply 25×30, I just throw my hands up and show her how the old way is done.

 

[Thyrsis]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

I'd be curious if the teacher's materials differ much in substance from the text.

I have no real idea why that's happening for others, but (1) I wonder if they're aiming for more of the teaching part with exercises and a format that facilitates the in-class portion better than the text (which may not sequence ideally, etc.); and (2) whether they're saving money in a clear crunch by cobbling together instead of buying texts (or saving any money for students in the process).

I've taught and I tended to prefer the cobbling approach for the reasons I mentioned. YMMV.

I will say, though, that it's been frustrating as a parent to help my kids when I don't have easy access to whatever text materials they are using. That's mostly a function of the technology age, but it's still a thing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'd be curious if the teacher's materials differ much in substance from the text.

I have no real idea why that's happening for others, but (1) I wonder if they're aiming for more of the teaching part with exercises and a format that facilitates the in-class portion better than the text (which may not sequence ideally, etc.); and (2) whether they're saving money in a clear crunch by cobbling together instead of buying texts (or saving any money for students in the process).

I've taught and I tended to prefer the cobbling approach for the reasons I mentioned. YMMV.

I will say, though, that it's been frustrating as a parent to help my kids when I don't have easy access to whatever text materials they are using. That's mostly a function of the technology age, but it's still a thing.

This could be spot on. My daughter rarely has homework and relates that everything is in-class

 

[BradStevens]

I'd be curious if the teacher's materials differ much in substance from the text.

I have no real idea why that's happening for others, but (1) I wonder if they're aiming for more of the teaching part with exercises and a format that facilitates the in-class portion better than the text (which may not sequence ideally, etc.); and (2) whether they're saving money in a clear crunch by cobbling together instead of buying texts (or saving any money for students in the process).

I've taught and I tended to prefer the cobbling approach for the reasons I mentioned. YMMV.

I will say, though, that it's been frustrating as a parent to help my kids when I don't have easy access to whatever text materials they are using. That's mostly a function of the technology age, but it's still a thing.

I’m guessing part of it is that teachers prefer the cobbling method since it gives them more autonomy and creativity and ability to teach things they like in a way that makes them happy/fulfilled.

The problem is, those approaches aren’t (and can’t be) rigorously tested to determine if they work better than the text. And again, I go back to the initial question: why do we think the average teacher can design a better curriculum for student learning (as opposed to a teacher sense of agency, meaning, and fulfillment) than the experts who spend years designing and testing these things?

 

[Thyrsis]

I’m guessing part of it is that teachers prefer the cobbling method since it gives them more autonomy and creativity and ability to teach things they like in a way that makes them happy/fulfilled.

The problem is, those approaches aren’t (and can’t be) rigorously tested to determine if they work better than the text. And again, I go back to the initial question: why do we think the average teacher can design a better curriculum for student learning (as opposed to a teacher sense of agency, meaning, and fulfillment) than the experts who spend years designing and testing these things?

I don’t have the answers or data, but I’m more generous with the teacher’s intentions. The vast majority of teachers I’ve known are totally up against it, on the front lines with students, know how they do and don’t respond to certain methods, deal with a huge array of kids and how they respond to the materials, have very little time and are under-budgeted. I think their primary motivations are succeeding, surviving, helping and keeping things moving within the structures imposed on them. I don’t think they’re off on a feel-good lark.

 

[BradStevens]

I don’t have the answers or data, but I’m more generous with the teacher’s intentions. The vast majority of teachers I’ve known are totally up against it, on the front lines with students, know how they do and don’t respond to certain methods, deal with a huge array of kids and how they respond to the materials, have very little time and are under-budgeted. I think their primary motivations are succeeding, surviving, helping and keeping things moving within the structures imposed on them. I don’t think they’re off on a feel-good lark.

I don’t consider it a lark. People have an amazing ability to talk themselves into thinking what they are doing is the best thing to do.

I highly doubt any teacher would intentionally teach in a way they thought would harm kids.

And in a way, they could be right. Maybe retaining the teachers who want to do this is best in the long term, because they are better teacher. So maybe they could get better outcomes if they taught the textbook, but another inferior teacher would get worse results compared with the creative teacher’s cobbled together curriculum.

The problem is, though, that everyone thinks they are above average, and I think that an average teacher (and below) needs to use a textbook and its curriculum.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I would agree they should largely stick to the textbook, but for fun, if a teacher has a lot of experience in teaching shouldn't they be considered an "expert"? Some teachers who do their own thing become big celebrities (movies like Stand and Deliver and Freedom Writers, or a lot of press like for the teacher who used the Iditarod for teaching). That sort of encourages teachers to strike their own way.

I do think teaching to the test is real. A textbook may include info most states want ( I doubt all 50 prioritize what is important exactly the same). So an Indiana teacher may know the Indiana test doesn't care so much about A but will have a lot on B.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

I don’t consider it a lark. People have an amazing ability to talk themselves into thinking what they are doing is the best thing to do.

I highly doubt any teacher would intentionally teach in a way they thought would harm kids.

And in a way, they could be right. Maybe retaining the teachers who want to do this is best in the long term, because they are better teachers and so could maybe get better outcomes if they taught the textbook, another inferior teacher would get worse results compared with the creative teachers cobbled together curriculum.

The problem is, though, that everyone thinks they are above average, and I think that an average teacher (and below) needs to use a textbook and its curriculum.

Well….. most K-8 teachers are below average. That is why they’re teachers after all. These aren’t our best and brightest.

 

[BradStevens]

I would agree they should largely stick to the textbook, but for fun, if a teacher has a lot of experience in teaching shouldn't they be considered an "expert"? Some teachers who do their own thing become big celebrities (movies like Stand and Deliver and Freedom Writers, or a lot of press like for the teacher who used the Iditarod for teaching). That sort of encourages teachers to strike their own way.

I do think teaching to the test is real. A textbook may include info most states want ( I doubt all 50 prioritize what is important exactly the same). So an Indiana teacher may know the Indiana test doesn't care so much about A but will have a lot on B.

Data, Marv, data. Experts aren’t always right. What they do needs to be tested

 

[IUNorth]

Could you provide a link to a school system that judges or links pay of teachers to the standardized test scores of their students?

Do you believe that no textbooks exist that prepare kids for standardized tests? I doubt that is true.

Not sure if I could find links for that or not...I suspect not. Basing my post on conversations I've had with teachers from varied districts in Northern Indiana, where I live. Standardized tests like I-Learn, drive a lot/most of their curriculum, and teaching efforts. And nearly every single one of them cites their job performance being judged largely on how their students do on those tests.

I might be connecting dots that aren't there with their pay. And maybe they're all mischaracterizing how important those test scores are? But it sure seems to be a "thing".

As per homework...in my kids school system, the amount of homework varies greatly by teacher. Some of my kids classes have A LOT of homework, some none at all. The common theme, that I've picked up, is the test prep stuff I referred to.

 

[BradStevens]

Not sure if I could find links for that or not...I suspect not. Basing my post on conversations I've had with teachers from varied districts in Northern Indiana, where I live. Standardized tests like I-Learn, drive a lot/most of their curriculum, and teaching efforts. And nearly every single one of them cites their job performance being judged largely on how their students do on those tests.

I might be connecting dots that aren't there with their pay. And maybe they're all mischaracterizing how important those test scores are? But it sure seems to be a "thing".

As per homework...in my kids school system, the amount of homework varies greatly by teacher. Some of my kids classes have A LOT of homework, some none at all. The common theme, that I've picked up, is the test prep stuff I referred to.

All parents and admins focus on objective, standardized test results (and they should). They talk about it and gnash teeth about it and complain and write op eds, etc.

But teachers aren't judged by the test scores of the students in their classes in any public school that I am aware or, and their pay is certainly not tied to it--it's all seniority.

My mom taught in the Elkhart school system for 35+ years (and I don't think that made her an "expert" where she could have developed a curriculum better than the doctorates in education and subject-matter areas that design most textbooks and standardized curriculums). Granted, she left 15 or so years ago, so maybe things have drastically changed in Indiana. Here in Illinois, though, the same system is in place.

Re teaching to the test, I'm agnostic. Depends on the test and what is meant by "teaching to it."

 

[BradStevens]

Well….. most K-8 teachers are below average. That is why they’re teachers after all. These aren’t our best and brightest.

I was using average to mean the average within the field.

But you bring up a good point: we have 3 million + teachers in this country. A system designed so that each of them is responsible for creating or even picking a curriculum for their class is a bad one.

And picking out examples of outlier teacher's methods as bucking the trend isn't helpful.
We need to develop a system that the bachelor of arts from SE Missouri St. (no shade to Ms. McMurt) can implement in a reasonably effective manner.

By way of analogy, you see this a lot in youth sports. I'll take my local little league as an example. A neighboring town hires baseball coaches to set up drills, skills practices, etc. to teach their kids the right way to swing, throw, field, etc. in the pre-season, then let the dad's manage the games. Our town does it the old-fashioned way, where each dad is coaching his team and teaching the game the way he was taught (because that MUST be the best way, right? Or maybe it is just the easiest--might be another explanation for the teacher phenomenon) or doing his own research on YouTube, etc.

Which way do you think better?

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

But teachers aren't judged by the test scores of the students in their classes in any public school

So what do you think they're being evaluated based upon if it isn't the results their students get on these tests that are mandated by the state? And you don't think admins and superintendents aren't being judged based on the standardized test results of their schools?

 

[zeke4ahs]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

I don’t have time to read the article, but I will. But one thing is that just like everything there is big money in selling textbooks to districts. They lobby and wine and dine the big wigs to get them to choose their books. I remember one time they pretended we had a say. Spent months going through presentations and the teachers voted on which series they thought was best. And guess what? That’s not the one the district picked.

 

[zeke4ahs]

We’ve started indulging this “people learn in different ways” nonsense.

Some people don’t like text books, or multiple choice exams. We need to do away with them to protect their feelings.

Never mind that no one has come up with a new, better way to benchmark and teach students. We’ll figure that out as we go along.

Multiple choice exams is a horrible way to test knowledge.

 

[zeke4ahs]

When my 10 year old does her math homework and is on the third way to show how to multiply 25×30, I just throw my hands up and show her how the old way is done.

But that might not be the way the standardized test is looking for and they will get docked points from not showing their work correctly, even if they have the correct answer.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I’m guessing part of it is that teachers prefer the cobbling method since it gives them more autonomy and creativity and ability to teach things they like in a way that makes them happy/fulfilled.

The problem is, those approaches aren’t (and can’t be) rigorously tested to determine if they work better than the text. And again, I go back to the initial question: why do we think the average teacher can design a better curriculum for student learning (as opposed to a teacher sense of agency, meaning, and fulfillment) than the experts who spend years designing and testing these things?

It takes so much more work to draw up your own curriculum.

 

[zeke4ahs]

One more thing then have to run, textbooks are one size fits all and classes and classrooms are not. Especially literature books, the stories are sometimes extremely dry and boring. In our system we use texts but do a lot of supplementing.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Well….. most K-8 teachers are below average. That is why they’re teachers after all. These aren’t our best and brightest.

Says the guy who certainly could have used a few more years in school.

 

[BradStevens]

So what exactly do you think they're being evaluated based upon if it isn't the results their students get on these tests that are mandated by the state? Their decorating skills on their walls? And you don't think admins and superintendents aren't being judged based on the standardized test results of their schools? Are you being serious?

Yes, I'm being serious. In my school district, it is not used to judge individual teachers.

Elsewhere, is it included in some sort of holistic "evaluation" that never has concrete consequences for the teacher? I'm assuming yes. Mostly, it's used as an overall evaluation of the school, though. But find me a teacher at a public school who was fired or docked pay due to the test scores from their students. Or an article describing how that can happen at a single school district. I could be wrong, but I doubt it in the vast majority of schools.

Admins and superintendents aren't teachers.

 

[zeke4ahs]

All parents and admins focus on objective, standardized test results (and they should). They talk about it and gnash teeth about it and complain and write op eds, etc.

But teachers aren't judged by the test scores of the students in their classes in any public school that I am aware or, and their pay is certainly not tied to it--it's all seniority.

My mom taught in the Elkhart school system for 35+ years (and I don't think that made her an "expert" where she could have developed a curriculum better than the doctorates in education and subject-matter areas that design most textbooks and standardized curriculums). Granted, she left 15 or so years ago, so maybe things have drastically changed in Indiana. Here in Illinois, though, the same system is in place.

Re teaching to the test, I'm agnostic. Depends on the test and what is meant by "teaching to it."

Their pay may not be dependent on it, but their job is.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Yes, I'm being serious. In my school district, it is not used to judge individual teachers.

Elsewhere, is it included in some sort of holistic "evaluation" that never has concrete consequences for the teacher? I'm assuming yes. Mostly, it's used as an overall evaluation of the school, though. But find me a teacher at a public school who was fired or docked pay due to the test scores from their students. Or an article describing how that can happen at a single school district. I could be wrong, but I doubt it in the vast majority of schools.

Admins and superintendents aren't teachers.

I can find you lots of teachers who were fired because of test scores. Of course there isn’t going to be public information on that. And to be clear, many of those teachers deserved to be fired.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

But that might not be the way the standardized test is looking for and they will get docked points from not showing their work correctly, even if they have the correct answer.

When there isn't a template for me to try and follow and then I try and Google and come up with four different ways to do the same problem with explanations that don't make sense, it's damn hard to try and get on board with what's going on.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

Teachers may not use textbooks for a variety of reasons, including:

• Outdated: Textbooks can become outdated quickly and may not cover a topic or subject area sufficiently
• Boring: Teachers may find textbooks boring
• Poor sequencing: Teachers may find the lessons and practice problems poorly sequenced
• Out of touch: Textbooks are often written by educators who have been out of school for years, so they may be out of touch with the audience they're writing for
• Expensive: Textbooks can be expensive
• Research-based: Teachers may feel pressured to use textbooks because they are research-based, but they can incorporate research-based aspects without using textbooks
• Learning style: Some people may find it easier to retain information when they hear it rather than reading it

I let AI provide some feedback.

 

[BradStevens]

I can find you lots of teachers who were fired because of test scores. Of course there isn’t going to be public information on that. And to be clear, many of those teachers deserved to be fired.

I doubt you can find teachers that were fired "because of test scores," because as you just admitted, there will be no public information on that. Maybe you heard rumors, though.

As you well know, those teachers deserved to be fired for things that showed up in their teaching that did not involve the test scores (but probably played a part in those scores). Find me a union contract that allows a teacher firing for test scores, though. That's public. There must be some merit-based teacher firing contracts somewhere, no? I've never heard of a union allowing it to go through, but that doesn't mean it can't exist.

 

[snarlcakes]

This is a widespread problem in my school district. No teacher uses or teaches a textbook. Instead, they develop their own syllabus, cobble together their own materials, and as a result, I believe, teach an inferior product to our children.

Another downside: lack of transparency.

Textbooks are created by subject matter experts. They are studied and some have actual evidence to support their efficacy. Why don’t a majority of high school teachers use them?

PROOF POINTS: Many high school math teachers cobble together their own instructional materials from the internet and elsewhere, a survey finds

Researchers say this DIY approach isn’t serving students well

hechingerreport.org

It was a way for districts to save money. Also, I think the assumption was they weren’t needed anymore, for the reasons you stated (online materials and resources). I do think it will swing back and districts will go back to more textbooks. Also, for the reasons you stated.

@BradStevens I wanted to add another driver in my opinion is administrative growth. Especially, wealthier larger districts. 25 years ago most districts had zero curriculum directors for example (it was part A.S. Position). Now you have a district Curriculum Director, one for just secondary, one for elementary, each school has coaches that work on curriculum, and etc. The larger the district the more of those positions. As it’s grown, I think a lot of people have to validate their jobs (most of them shouldn’t exist) and saying use the textbook won’t cut it.

 

[BradStevens]

Teachers may not use textbooks for a variety of reasons, including:

• Outdated: Textbooks can become outdated quickly and may not cover a topic or subject area sufficiently
• Boring: Teachers may find textbooks boring
• Poor sequencing: Teachers may find the lessons and practice problems poorly sequenced
• Out of touch: Textbooks are often written by educators who have been out of school for years, so they may be out of touch with the audience they're writing for
• Expensive: Textbooks can be expensive
• Research-based: Teachers may feel pressured to use textbooks because they are research-based, but they can incorporate research-based aspects without using textbooks
• Learning style: Some people may find it easier to retain information when they hear it rather than reading it

I let AI provide some feedback.

AI didn't do a very good job of responding to the underlying concern found in the title of this thread.

Grade: F.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Data, Marv, data. Experts aren’t always right. What they do needs to be tested

I would agree that Data is important. Before a textbook is prepared, what sort of Data do you think is used? My guess is one of the top metrics is "what does Texas want". Just because historically all Texas schools use the same textbook, it is a great sale to get.

I just happened to hear a presenter at a conference discussing Stand and Deliver and Freedom Writers. Their take was this, no one is going to succeed by copying them. Teachers have to teach to their style, their personality. Copying someone isn't going to motivate anyone because it isn't natural to the teacher and the kids will pick up on that. It isn't real.

I don't know if that fits here exactly. I think it is a mistake to teach exactly to the book. But it is a mistake to wander so far away one can't see the book.

I was just thinking of General Stonewall Jackson. He was a professor at VMI before the war. He would stand and give the most boring oratory anyone ever heard. If a student asked a question, he would back up and deliver the exact same oratory. His belief was the oratory was perfect, it was the fault of the student in not listening.

For math, it seems like the book needs followed more closely. For other studies, I'm less confident. What I am not sure of, do all these kids learn the same way? Do kids in Carmel learn the same as kids at Pike and kids in Flora? Maybe they do. My guess is that textbooks are written toward a one size fits all model. Is that how education really is?

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

AI didn't do a very good job of responding to the underlying concern found in the title of this thread.

Grade: F.

Perhaps you've put too much credence in the fact that all textbook writers are experts. You know, those that can't do, teach and those that can't teach write textbooks or something like that.

 

[BradStevens]

I would agree that Data is important. Before a textbook is prepared, what sort of Data do you think is used? My guess is one of the top metrics is "what does Texas want". Just because historically all Texas schools use the same textbook, it is a great sale to get.

I just happened to hear a presenter at a conference discussing Stand and Deliver and Freedom Writers. Their take was this, no one is going to succeed by copying them. Teachers have to teach to their style, their personality. Copying someone isn't going to motivate anyone because it isn't natural to the teacher and the kids will pick up on that. It isn't real.

I don't know if that fits here exactly. I think it is a mistake to teach exactly to the book. But it is a mistake to wander so far away one can't see the book.

I was just thinking of General Stonewall Jackson. He was a professor at VMI before the war. He would stand and give the most boring oratory anyone ever heard. If a student asked a question, he would back up and deliver the exact same oratory. His belief was the oratory was perfect, it was the fault of the student in not listening.

For math, it seems like the book needs followed more closely. For other studies, I'm less confident. What I am not sure of, do all these kids learn the same way? Do kids in Carmel learn the same as kids at Pike and kids in Flora? Maybe they do. My guess is that textbooks are written toward a one size fits all model. Is that how education really is?

Do you not think the experts know about these issues? That they don't design accordingly? Why do you think you or a classroom teacher even can solve these problems better than the experts? Don't you think this discussion tracks others in which you have wondered why we aren't following the experts (e.g. Covid)?

Re the Texas thing, there are more than one textbook in nearly every area. Pick the one that meets your local values in subjects where that is relevant. I have no problem with that.

Maybe what I'm asking for doesn't exist. But it should: we should be centralizing teaching concepts more than we are now, through expert-developed and robustly tested curriculums and teaching materials. The article in the OP shows this is not happening now and worse, what we have now cannot be tested for its efficacy.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Do you not think the experts know about these issues? That they don't design accordingly? Why do you think you or a classroom teacher even can solve these problems better than the experts? Don't you think this discussion tracks others in which you have wondered why we aren't following the experts (e.g. Covid)?

Re the Texas thing, there are more than one textbook in nearly every area. Pick the one that meets your local values in subjects where that is relevant. I have no problem with that.

Maybe what I'm asking for doesn't exist. But it should: we should be centralizing teaching concepts more than we are now, through expert-developed and robustly tested curriculums and teaching materials. The article in the OP shows this is not happening now and worse, what we have now cannot be tested for its efficacy.

This was a comment at the bottom of that story:

I totally disagree with this article. It states that math teachers are not using the curriculum that they should be using. It also says that teacher made materials may sacrifice the thoughtful sequencing of topics planned by curriculum designers. For the last 15 years, I have been using my own written curriculum, with great success. 15 years ago my district was looking at buying new textbooks. I looked at textbook after textbook. The one thing they all had in common was a totally bizarre sequencing of chapters. They all followed a progression, for a couple of chapters, and then bizarrely skipped to something completely unrelated. After that chapter, they skipped to something else, not related to either of the first two covered topics. Not one single textbook displayed progression and continuity. For all my classes, my curriculum starts at a certain point and slows progresses logically. Each skill is built on the mastery of the skill learned before. This has resulted in tremendous mastery of the material. If I had used textbooks my students would have ended up with low skills and little understanding.​

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It seems like you're asking for uniformity when uniformity isn't reasonable given the myriad of types of students, learning styles, etc. Even math, is taught differently to English learners vs those that are English natives.

 

[mcmurtry66]

This was a comment at the bottom of that story:

I totally disagree with this article. It states that math teachers are not using the curriculum that they should be using. It also says that teacher made materials may sacrifice the thoughtful sequencing of topics planned by curriculum designers. For the last 15 years, I have been using my own written curriculum, with great success. 15 years ago my district was looking at buying new textbooks. I looked at textbook after textbook. The one thing they all had in common was a totally bizarre sequencing of chapters. They all followed a progression, for a couple of chapters, and then bizarrely skipped to something completely unrelated. After that chapter, they skipped to something else, not related to either of the first two covered topics. Not one single textbook displayed progression and continuity. For all my classes, my curriculum starts at a certain point and slows progresses logically. Each skill is built on the mastery of the skill learned before. This has resulted in tremendous mastery of the material. If I had used textbooks my students would have ended up with low skills and little understanding.​

​

It seems like you're asking for uniformity when uniformity isn't reasonable given the myriad of types of students, learning styles, etc. Even math, is taught differently to English learners vs those that are English natives.

How does that play out at the end of the road when they all get the same ACT/SAT?