ADVERTISEMENT

Racial animosity among Trump voters

Circlejoe

All-Big Ten
Sep 26, 2001
4,210
1,703
113
This morning's NYTimes has an insightful column looking at research into Trump's 2016 election victory. We have some pretty good data nerds on this board, so I thought we could get some reactions. It does focus on how racial animosity among voters affected the outcome of the election, so there's some apprehension about posting this on this site.

I've included the link along with the content for those who don't subscribe. And yes, I know...tldr.

Link: NYTIMES

The Unsettling Truth About Trump’s First Great Victory

March 22, 2023

By Thomas B. Edsall

Mr. Edsall contributes a weekly column from Washington, D.C., on politics, demographics and inequality.

Donald Trump’s 2016 election victory continues to confound election experts. How could American voters put such a fractious figure into the White House?

This is more than an academic question. For the third time, Trump is the leading candidate for the Republican presidential nomination.

Three books, published in the years following Trump’s election — “Identity Crisis: The 2016 Presidential Campaign and the Battle for the Meaning of America” by John Sides of Vanderbilt, Michael Tesler of the University of California-Irvine and Lynn Vavreck of U.C.L.A.; “White Identity Politics” by Ashley Jardina of George Mason University; and “Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity” by Lilliana Mason of Johns Hopkins — shed light on Trump’s improbable political longevity.

Each points to the centrality of racial animosity.

Sides, Tesler and Vavreck, for example, cite 2016 American National Election Studies data that asked four questions in order to explore dimensions of white identity: “the importance of white identity, how much whites are being discriminated against, the likelihood that whites are losing jobs to nonwhites, and the importance of whites working together to change laws unfair to whites.”

The authors combine these questions into a “scale capturing the strength of white identity and found that it was strongly related to Republicans’ support for Donald Trump.”

“Strongly related” is an understatement. On a 17-point scale ranking the strength of Republican primary voters’ white identity from lowest to highest, support for Trump grew consistently at each step — from 2 percent at the bottom to 81 percent at the highest level.

Now, this earlier scholarship notwithstanding, three political scientists are presenting an alternative interpretation of the 2016 election. In their Feb. 28 paper “Measuring the Contribution of Voting Blocs to Election Outcomes,” Justin Grimmer of Stanford, William Marble of the University of Pennsylvania and Cole Tanigawa-Lau, also of Stanford, write:

We assess claims that Donald Trump received a particularly large number of votes from individuals with antagonistic attitudes toward racial outgroups (Sides, Tesler and Vavreck, 2017; Mason, Wronski and Kane, 2021). Using the ANES, however, we show that in 2016 Trump’s largest gains in support, compared to Mitt Romney in 2012, came from whites with moderate racial resentment. This result holds despite the fact that the relationship between vote choice and racial resentment was stronger in 2016 and 2020 than in other elections.

How could these two seemingly contradictory statements both be true? Grimmer, Marble and Tanigawa-Lau write:

Decomposing the change in support observed in the ANES data, we show that respondents in 2016 and 2020 reported more moderate views, on average, than in previous elections. As a result, Trump improved the most over previous Republicans by capturing the votes of a larger number of people who report racially moderate views.

In an email, Marble provided more detail:

Whites with high levels of racial resentment supported Trump at a historically high rate compared to prior Republican presidential candidates. Yet, between 2012 and 2016, the number of people who scored at the high end of the racial resentment scale declined significantly. As a result, there were simply fewer high racial resentment voters for Trump to win in 2016 and 2020 than there were in earlier eras. At the same time, the number of people scoring at moderate levels of racial resentment increased. Trump was not as popular among this voting bloc, compared to those with high racial resentment. But because this group is larger, whites with moderate racial resentment scores ended up contributing more net votes to Trump.

I asked Grimmer to explain the significance of his work with Marble and Tanigawa-Lau.

Responding by email, Grimmer wrote:

Our findings provide an important correction to a popular narrative about how Trump won office. Hillary Clinton argued that Trump supporters could be placed in a “basket of deplorables.” And election-night pundits and even some academics have claimed that Trump’s victory was the result of appealing to white Americans’ racist and xenophobic attitudes. We show this conventional wisdom is (at best) incomplete. Trump’s supporters were less xenophobic than prior Republican candidates’, less sexist, had lower animus to minority groups, and lower levels of racial resentment. Far from deplorables, Trump voters were, on average, more tolerant and understanding than voters for prior Republican candidates.

The data, Grimmer continued,

point to two important and undeniable facts. First, analyses focused on vote choice alone cannot tell us where candidates receive support. We must know the size of groups and who turns out to vote. And we cannot confuse candidates’ rhetoric with the voters who support them, because voters might support the candidate despite the rhetoric, not because of it.

I asked Sides, Tesler and Vavreck for their assessment of the Grimmer, Marble and Tanigawa-Lau paper. They provided a one-paragraph response affirming, in the phrase “identity-inflected issues,” the crucial role of racial resentment:

There are of course many complexities in characterizing changes in aggregate election outcomes over time. Several pieces of research into the 2016 election, including our book, “Identity Crisis,” and this interesting paper by Grimmer, Marble and Tanigawa-Lau, find that people’s vote choices in that election were more strongly related to their views on “identity-inflected issues” than they had been in prior elections. That is why our book argues that these issues are central to how we interpret the outcome in 2016.

John Kane, a political scientist at N.Y.U. and an author with Lilliana Mason and Julie Wronski of “Activating Animus: The Uniquely Social Roots of Trump Support,” which was cited in the Grimmer paper, suggested that the Grimmer paper in fact provides a key corrective to the debate over the 2016 election. In an email, Kane pointed to a key section that reads:

Trump’s surprising win in 2016 was not due to a large increase in Republican votes among the most racially resentful Americans. Instead, Trump’s support grew the most, relative to prior Republican candidates’, among whites with relatively moderate racial resentment scores. This potentially surprising finding is explained by the shifting distribution of racial resentment in the population.

Grimmer’s point, Kane wrote, is

to highlight the fact that, if we don’t account for a group’s size in the population (e.g., how many racially resentful people there are) and how many of them actually turn out to vote, we could incorrectly infer that certain groups have become more or less supportive of particular parties over time. I fully agree with this point and really do think it’s extremely important for people to understand.

That said, Kane continued,

The point about Trump voters being less racially resentful on average than voters for previous Republican candidates, while likely true, should, I think, be interpreted as a statement about why it’s important to be mindful of over-time changes in groups’ sizes in the population, and NOT as a statement about Trump being successful in attracting racially liberal voters (indeed, those lowest in racial resentment turned away from him, per Grimmer-Marble-Tanigawa-Lau’s own findings).

Other scholars who have explored issues of race and politics were generally supportive of the Grimmer paper.

Andrew Engelhardt, a political scientist at the University of North Carolina-Greensboro, wrote by email:

I find this argument persuasive because understanding election outcomes requires not just understanding what contributes to vote choice (e.g., racial group attachments, racial prejudice), but also how many people with that particular attitude turned out to vote and what share of the electorate that group makes up.

The Grimmer paper, Engelhardt continued, “encourages us to take a step back and focus on the big picture for understanding elections: where do most votes come from and are these patterns consistent across elections?” Along these lines, according to Engelhardt,

Discussion of racial resentment driving support for Trump could miss how folks low in racial resentment were actually critical to the election outcome. The paper makes just this clarifying point, noting, for instance, that White Democrats low in racial resentment were even more influential in contributing votes to Clinton in 2016 than to Obama in 2012. Change between 2012 and 2016 is not exclusively due to the behavior of the most prejudiced.

“I like this piece,” Alexander George Theodoridis, a political scientist at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, wrote. “It is a nice reminder for scholars and, especially, the media, that it is important to think carefully about base rates.”

In his email, Theodoridis argued:

Donald Trump’s candidacy in 2016 was a stress test for Republican partisanship, and Republican partisanship passed with flying colors. The election was close enough for Trump to win because the vast majority of G.O.P. voters found the idea of either sitting it out or voting for a Democrat they had spent 20+ years disliking so distasteful that Trump’s limitations, liabilities and overt racism and misogyny were not a deal-breaker.

Theodoridis noted that his one

minor methodological and measurement critique is that this sort of analysis has to take seriously what the racial resentment scale actually means. It may be that race is actually quite salient for those in the middle part of the scale, but they are just less overtly racist than those at the top of the scale. Also, the meaning of the racial resentment scale changes over time in ways that are not independent of politics, and especially of presidential politics. Position on the scale is not immutable in the way some descriptive characteristics may be.

Sean Westwood, a political scientist at Dartmouth, was explicitly supportive of the Grimmer-Marble-Tanigawa-Lau methodology. Writing by email, Westwood argued:

It is an interesting academic exercise to predict who will win the vote within a specific group, but it is more fundamental to elections to understand how many voters candidates will gain from each group. The limitation in Sides-Vavreck-Mason-Jardina is that they find a strong relationship between racial attitudes and Trump support, but while predictive of individual vote choice these results lead to relatively few total votes for Trump.

Westwood contends that

the important contribution from Grimmer et al is that there was a big change in the attitudes of the white electorate. A small number of whites with high levels of racial resentment did support Trump in 2016 at a higher rate than in prior elections, but the bulk of support for Trump came from more moderate whites. Trump managed to pull in support from racists, but he was able to pull in much more support from economically disadvantaged whites.

The Grimmer paper, according to Westwood, has significant implications for those making “general claims about the future Republican Party,” specifically challenging those who believe

that Republicans can continue to win by appealing to white Americans’ worst attitudes and instincts. While it is true Trump support is largest for the most racist voters, this group is a shrinking part of the electorate. Republicans, as Grimmer et al. show, must figure out how to appeal to moderate whites who hold more moderate attitudes in order to win. Racist appeals can win votes, but it is critical to remember that this number is smaller than the votes gained by speaking on economic concerns of moderate white voters (many of whom were uncomfortable with Trump’s racist rhetoric and were voting solely based on economic policy).

Trump, Westwood concluded, “found support from both racists and moderates, but with the pool of racist voters shrinking, it is clear this is not a path to future victory.”

Other scholars were more cautious in their response to the Grimmer paper. Daniel Hopkins, a political scientist at the University of Pennsylvania, commented by email:

The 2016 presidential election included ballots cast by more than 128 million Americans, and so any one narrative used to explain that election will be partial and incomplete. So I think it’s critical to avoid the idea that there is a single skeleton key that can explain all the varied undercurrents that led to Trump’s 2016 victory, or that any one paper will provide a definitive explanation. That said, I published an article in 2021 in Political Behavior titled “The Activation of Prejudice and Presidential Voting,” which I entirely stand by.

Hopkins said his paper demonstrates that

white Americans’ prejudice against Black Americans was more predictive of their vote choice in 2016 than it had been in 2012. Importantly, it also shows that levels of prejudice against Black Americans were more predictive of voting in the 2016 G.O.P. primary than in the 2016 general election. But Grimmer and colleagues are looking at a different question using different data, so I don’t consider the analyses to be contradictory.

One clear benefit emerging from the continuing study of Trump’s 2016 victory is a better understanding of the complexity and nuance of what brought it about.

Marc Hetherington, a political scientist at the University of North Carolina, pointed out in an email that the presence of racial resentment among Republican voters emerged long before Trump ran for president, while such resentment among Democratic voters has been sharply declining:

I think what Justin Grimmer would say is that racial resentment didn’t do more for Trump than it did for Romney. The highly racially resentful have, with reason, been voting for Republicans for a long time. Trump’s more explicit use of race didn’t make supporters more racially resentful. Levels of racial resentment among Republicans are no higher now than they were before Trump. In fact, they are slightly lower. And the highly racially resentful already knew full well that their home was in the G.O.P.

While the focus of attention has been on those who fall at the high end of the distribution on racial resentment, Hetherington wrote,

Almost all the change has taken place among Democrats, as they moved to lower and lower levels of resentment. In a statistical sense, the fact that there are now so many more people at the low end of the distribution than before will produce a larger coefficient for the effect of racial resentment on voting behavior. Put another way, racial resentment has a bigger effect. But that does not mean that those high in racial resentment are now even more likely to vote for Republicans or that there are more people high in resentment. In this case, I think it reflects that there are more people low in resentment than before and that they are even less likely to vote for Republicans than before. So the low end of the scale is doing the work.

I began my examination of the Grimmer paper concerned that he and his co-authors might be drawing large conclusions from statistical oddities. After further examining the data and going over the commentary of the scholars I contacted, my own view is that Grimmer, Marble and Tanigawa-Lau have made a significant contribution to understanding the Trump phenomenon.

Most important, they make the case that explanations of Trump’s victory pointing to the role of those at the extremes on measures of racial resentment and sexism, while informative, are in their own way too comforting, fostering the belief that Trump’s triumph was the product of voters who have drifted far from the American mainstream.

In fact, the new analysis suggests that Trumpism has found fertile ground across a broad swath of the electorate, including many firmly in the mainstream. That Trump could capture the hearts and minds of these voters suggests that whatever he represents beyond racial resentment — anger, chaos, nihilism, hostility — is more powerful than many recognize or acknowledge. Restoring American politics to an even keel will be far tougher than many of us realize.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here's our email: letters@nytimes.com.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on
Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.

Thomas B. Edsall has been a contributor to the Times Opinion section since 2011. His column on strategic and demographic trends in American politics appears every Wednesday. He previously covered politics for The Washington Post. @edsall
 
This morning's NYTimes has an insightful column looking at research into Trump's 2016 election victory. We have some pretty good data nerds on this board, so I thought we could get some reactions. It does focus on how racial animosity among voters affected the outcome of the election, so there's some apprehension about posting this on this site.

I won't even try to get down in the weeds with this, but I'll make one observation after quickly reading through the article...

They all appear to be discussing the various voting patterns and voter attitudes in aggregate, yet never acknowledge that Trump lost the aggregate vote. We all know the only reason he was elected was because he drew to an inside straight in the Electoral College.

Any comparisons made were to voting patterns and voter attitudes in 2012. It would be interesting to apply their methodology to 2020 and see what changed.
 
I won't even try to get down in the weeds with this, but I'll make one observation after quickly reading through the article...

They all appear to be discussing the various voting patterns and voter attitudes in aggregate, yet never acknowledge that Trump lost the aggregate vote. We all know the only reason he was elected was because he drew to an inside straight in the Electoral College.

Any comparisons made were to voting patterns and voter attitudes in 2012. It would be interesting to apply their methodology to 2020 and see what changed.
Trump is an old school moderate Democrat running as a Republican who got hit with the racist label. That chased away the white credentialed class. The end.
 
The work describes my feeling. The Lost Cause is really the Abolitionist. Family traditions in the country that have a history of abolition, Union service in the war etc. They hurt because many have been pro-integration in family tradition and more importantly church for generations. Today they are constantly bombarded with whites are racist and if they don't agree then they are racist. That message is constant, and it hurts. I never voted for Trump but he was created by the narrative. The real lost cause is Abolition and integration. PS I am not a credentialed class.
 
I won't even try to get down in the weeds with this, but I'll make one observation after quickly reading through the article...

They all appear to be discussing the various voting patterns and voter attitudes in aggregate, yet never acknowledge that Trump lost the aggregate vote. We all know the only reason he was elected was because he drew to an inside straight in the Electoral College.

Any comparisons made were to voting patterns and voter attitudes in 2012. It would be interesting to apply their methodology to 2020 and see what changed.
I think the broad strokes lesson is this: white racial antagonism has become less of a power in the GOP as a whole, but it was especially powerful in the selection of Trump as a candidate in 2016. In layman's terms, the people who say the GOP is becoming less racist are correct, but the people who say the Trump movement is rooted in racism are also correct.
 
LOL. You live in a fantasy land.
You are so dismissive because you are wrapped up in Trump. Economic protectionism was old school Democrat. Focusing on white working class blue collar workers was old school Democrat. Isolationist tendencies was old school Democrat. Criminal justice reform. Spending policies. Controlling immigration. That is 1980's moderate Democrat stuff whether you want to admit it or not.

The people who walked away from Trump in 2020 were college educated white males, i.e. the white credentialed class.
 
You are so dismissive because you are wrapped up in Trump. Economic protectionism was old school Democrat. Focusing on white working class blue collar workers was old school Democrat. Isolationist tendencies was old school Democrat. Criminal justice reform. Spending policies. Controlling immigration. That is 1980's moderate Democrat stuff whether you want to admit it or not.

The people who walked away from Trump in 2020 were college educated white males, i.e. the white credentialed class.
Moderate democrats voted for Biden, not Trump.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Crayfish57
I won't even try to get down in the weeds with this, but I'll make one observation after quickly reading through the article...

They all appear to be discussing the various voting patterns and voter attitudes in aggregate, yet never acknowledge that Trump lost the aggregate vote. We all know the only reason he was elected was because he drew to an inside straight in the Electoral College.

Any comparisons made were to voting patterns and voter attitudes in 2012. It would be interesting to apply their methodology to 2020 and see what changed.
You don't need to win the aggregate vote in the United States. Ask Lincoln.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1
how they voted is immaterial. what crazy writes above is accurate re policy/dems. the parties today have lost their shape
What crazy writes above is a deflection away from the salient point: a significant chunk of Trump's support in the primary was from racially disgruntled whites. Basically, racists. They loved him. We all know it. Let's just admit it and move on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Circlejoe
What crazy writes above is a deflection away from the salient point: a significant chunk of Trump's support in the primary was from racially disgruntled whites. Basically, racists. They loved him. We all know it. Let's just admit it and move on.
I don’t believe that’s accurate. Disgruntled whites yes. I don’t believe race was the motivating factor for most. I think it was the idea of being left behind for the myriad reasons we’ve belabored. Race isn’t one of those reasons. Now they certainly could be racist. It’s not mutually exclusive. But that wasn’t a primary factor much less a dispositive one
 
I don’t believe that’s accurate. Disgruntled whites yes. I don’t believe race was the motivating factor for most. I think it was the idea of being left behind for the myriad reasons we’ve belabored. Race isn’t one of those reasons. Now they certainly could be racist. It’s not mutually exclusive. But that wasn’t a primary factor much less a dispositive one
For a chunk of them, race wasn't just a primary factor, it was the primary factor, and if you deny that, you're blind. C'mon, man. You know what I'm talking about. It's not all of them, but it's a chunk, and it's a big enough chunk to explain that statistical difference between the 2016 primary and the 2016 general.
 
What crazy writes above is a deflection away from the salient point: a significant chunk of Trump's support in the primary was from racially disgruntled whites. Basically, racists. They loved him. We all know it. Let's just admit it and move on.
That is not what the original work Circle posted concluded. It showed a lot of what Circle commented. Democrats have alienated their historical base.
 
For a chunk of them, race wasn't just a primary factor, it was the primary factor, and if you deny that, you're blind. C'mon, man. You know what I'm talking about. It's not all of them, but it's a chunk, and it's a big enough chunk to explain that statistical difference between the 2016 primary and the 2016 general.
I don’t know how big that chunk is. My opinion is predicated on purely anecdotal stuff. But I spent a lot of time in rural places. Watched many documentaries. The dupe was the belief that trump could bring back jobs, manufacturing, turn back the clock to when a high school diploma was enough and a guy could support his family with a Chrysler iob. These guys don’t want to hear about coding and climate shit. They want coal and work. That’s what I heard from those “hillbillies” - nary a word about race. I hear race from the left. Incessantly. Like this thread being started.

And none of that disqualifies many from being racists. It just wasn’t their motivation
 
Moderate democrats voted for Biden, not Trump.
You aren't getting what I am saying. A moderate Democrat today is not a moderate Democrat in 1980. 2016 and 2020 "moderate" Democrats voted for Biden. People who would have voted for a guy like Dick Gephart throughout the 1980's (blue collar, socially conservative, economically moderate midwesterners) voted for Trump.

The platform that Donald Trump ran on would have had resonance with those same people in 1985.

As to the notion that racism motivated Trump voters, the article that started this thread seems to refute that. I think that those on the left are too quick to jump to "racial grievances" all the time because it is a simplistic way to demonize your opposition. They can't have a point because "racism". So the economic and crime issues that come along with a border that is so porous it is basically open, can be cast aside as "white resentment" because the people coming across happen to typically be a shade darker than Europeans. It avoids having to address the real grievance. The party is becoming less racist but also less "compassionate conservative" not because of little brown people but because drugs are destroying their communities and low wage workers streaming across a border can wave hi to the manufacturing jobs heading the other direction an all of those things negatively impact the voters in question.

We scoff at them, "They terk er jerbs" but the reality is that is the biggest motivator. Not everyone out there has the college degree safety net. If you are a minority and don't have it you voted Democrat because they say they are going to take care of you. If you are white and don't have that, you voted for Trump because he said he would take care of you and the other party was calling you deplorable or saying you were privileged and needed to STFU.

If you were a fiscal conservative, a neo-con, or a traditional conservative you wondered what the heck happened to your choice.
 
Are you trolling?
No.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Rockport Zebra
No.


Obviously, you liked it from the title alone, right? Probably couldn't put it down..

From the notes, it seems to just be another excuse why rubes were rubes and voted for an obvious opportunistic grifting con man ..

This time it's okay because some democrats in the past acted like him?

And, it came to the conclusion that it was partially based on economics and partially based on local community sanctity. Just good hearted old fashioned neighborly concern, y'all ... and we's shop local. (Narrator: at the local walmart)

Wow, so profound.. what's the writer's next project, maga-splainin' the dampness of water?

I hope you didn't actually pay to read that .. lmao.

The reason he became president is obvious. There's a lot of poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people in this country and he was evil and opportunistic enough to manipulate their fears for his own gain. It's what populists do ....

The concept is too stupid to continue arguing but thanks for the small laugh ..
 
Last edited:
Obviously, you liked it from the title alone, right? Probably couldn't put it down..

From the notes, it seems to just be another excuse why rubes were rubes and voted for an obvious opportunistic grifting con man ..

This time it's okay because some democrats in the past acted like him?

And, it came to the conclusion that it was partially based on economics and partially based on local community sanctity. Just good hearted old fashioned neighborly concern, y'all ... and we's shop local. (Narrator: at the local walmart)

Wow, so profound.. what's the writer's next project, maga-splainin' the dampness of water?

I hope you didn't actually pay to read that .. lmao.

The reason he became president is obvious. There's a lot of poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people in this country and he was evil and opportunistic enough to manipulate their fears for his own gain. It's what populists do ....

The concept is too stupid to continue arguing but thanks for the small laugh ..
You should stick to music snobbery.

You’re not equipped to participate in these discussions.

Sophomoric insults is really as deep as you can go.
 
Obviously, you liked it from the title alone, right? Probably couldn't put it down..

From the notes, it seems to just be another excuse why rubes were rubes and voted for an obvious opportunistic grifting con man ..

This time it's okay because some democrats in the past acted like him?

And, it came to the conclusion that it was partially based on economics and partially based on local community sanctity. Just good hearted old fashioned neighborly concern, y'all ... and we's shop local. (Narrator: at the local walmart)

Wow, so profound.. what's the writer's next project, maga-splainin' the dampness of water?

I hope you didn't actually pay to read that .. lmao.

The reason he became president is obvious. There's a lot of poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people in this country and he was evil and opportunistic enough to manipulate their fears for his own gain. It's what populists do ....

The concept is too stupid to continue arguing but thanks for the small laugh ..
You guys have no objectivity when it comes to Trump. Seriously. And I won't go on a small screed to make my point. The idea that Trump had some qualities that Democrats had in the past and supported policies that Democrats had in the past is objective fact. It isn't some attempt to turn Trump on the Democrats. When it comes to discussions of Trump, many people aren't capable of being adults. That includes his supporters.
 
You guys have no objectivity when it comes to Trump. Seriously. And I won't go on a small screed to make my point. The idea that Trump had some qualities that Democrats had in the past and supported policies that Democrats had in the past is objective fact. It isn't some attempt to turn Trump on the Democrats. When it comes to discussions of Trump, many people aren't capable of being adults. That includes his supporters.
Tmp is right about his poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people comment. They did swing trump in keeping with populism. They are the left behind population.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UncleMark
Tmp is right about his poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people comment. They did swing trump in keeping with populism. They are the left behind population.
No he isn't because Democrats never want to attribute that to their biggest constituencies. They just find it acceptable to describe poor whites that way because they are generally antagonistic towards them. For every disgruntled populist voting for Trump, there was a disgruntled populist voting for Biden.

TMP criticizing Trump's voters for being poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people are comments that could be made about huge swaths of the minority community that support Democrats. It is just labeled "racist" by the same people saying that about poor whites to point out that is objectively true and that Democrat messaging to those communities absolutely plays that stuff up.
 
No he isn't because Democrats never want to attribute that to their biggest constituencies. They just find it acceptable to describe poor whites that way because they are generally antagonistic towards them. For every disgruntled populist voting for Trump, there was a disgruntled populist voting for Biden.

TMP criticizing Trump's voters for being poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people are comments that could be made about huge swaths of the minority community that support Democrats. It is just labeled "racist" by the same people saying that about poor whites to point out that is objectively true and that Democrat messaging to those communities absolutely plays that stuff up.
Yea but the group described historically were Dems but believed trump spoke to them and went with him. The distinction is that circle believes race was the reason. I don’t. I believe it was their station in life and fear for their economic future
 
Yea but the group described historically were Dems but believed trump spoke to them and went with him. The distinction is that circle believes race was the reason. I don’t. I believe it was their station in life and fear for their economic future
And so what? The issue I have is that white people fear about issues that impact them makes them stooooopid racists. Minority fears around economic issues (and blaming white privelege) are totally acceptable though.

If poor whites are abandoning the Democrat Party who they used to vote for, it gets blamed on the voters and not the messaging and policies of the party. If the GOP isn't attracting as many minority voters it gets blamed on the party's messaging and policies. The Democrats have a "racism" hammer and they use it on everything. Agreeing to what TMP proposes is buying into that paradigm. I don't. This was a screw and we need to be talking about a screwdriver, not a hammer. The article linked to start the whole thread indicates that is the case and here we are being drug back to the hammer conversation.

Edit to add: And TMP throwing the accusation is interesting because he is at the top of the list of people who often (crudely) make their point from a racial POV. He just makes it about old white men so that is a-okay.
 
Yea but the group described historically were Dems but believed trump spoke to them and went with him. The distinction is that circle believes race was the reason. I don’t. I believe it was their station in life and fear for their economic future
I believe the research presented points out that race wasn’t the reason for Trump winning. It also suggests that even though Trump ran a racist campaign, there were enough voters who chose to ignore it and vote for Trump. We see that all the time here. People jump to “you accuse me of being a racist because I support Trump”. No, but I do point out you are perfectly fine voting for a racist because you support “his policies”.
 
I believe the research presented points out that race wasn’t the reason for Trump winning. It also suggests that even though Trump ran a racist campaign, there were enough voters who chose to ignore it and vote for Trump. We see that all the time here. People jump to “you accuse me of being a racist because I support Trump”. No, but I do point out you are perfectly fine voting for a racist because you support “his policies”.
I don’t believe trump is a racist. He’s an opportunist and narcissist. Hell he pardoned a black rapper instead of the tiger king. Whatever group likes him, proud boys, blm, or Sinaloans he’d align with. Narcissist not racist
 
I don’t believe trump is a racist. He’s an opportunist and narcissist. Hell he pardoned a black rapper instead of the tiger king. Whatever group likes him, proud boys, blm, or Sinaloans he’d align with. Narcissist not racist
I think we’re both right. Trump is a racist, narcissistic opportunist. And that’s just for starters.
 
I don’t believe trump is a racist. He’s an opportunist and narcissist. Hell he pardoned a black rapper instead of the tiger king. Whatever group likes him, proud boys, blm, or Sinaloans he’d align with. Narcissist not racist
He supports those minorities who play his game. Those who don't are themselves racist.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Crayfish57
Trump is an old school moderate Democrat running as a Republican who got hit with the racist label. That chased away the white credentialed class. The end.
Well, that and he also got hit with the sexist label and the dishonest label too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrBing
I believe the research presented points out that race wasn’t the reason for Trump winning. It also suggests that even though Trump ran a racist campaign, there were enough voters who chose to ignore it and vote for Trump. We see that all the time here. People jump to “you accuse me of being a racist because I support Trump”. No, but I do point out you are perfectly fine voting for a racist because you support “his policies”.
Wait, how did Trump run a racist campaign?

Please tell me you’re not referring to the laughable “make America great again is racist” nonsense.
 
I don’t know how big that chunk is. My opinion is predicated on purely anecdotal stuff. But I spent a lot of time in rural places. Watched many documentaries. The dupe was the belief that trump could bring back jobs, manufacturing, turn back the clock to when a high school diploma was enough and a guy could support his family with a Chrysler iob. These guys don’t want to hear about coding and climate shit. They want coal and work. That’s what I heard from those “hillbillies” - nary a word about race. I hear race from the left. Incessantly. Like this thread being started.

And none of that disqualifies many from being racists. It just wasn’t their motivation
The term "racist" gets tossed around very easily here, but I have never seen a post here - only been here around 25 years in one board or another - that makes even a slight attempt to define nor even to identify conduct that falls within the long missing definition of "racist" I suspect - though I have no data testing the suspicion - that no one here - at least not on the left,, can define what defines the weapon being used to attempt to harm those claimed to be racist. I've done LOT of polling in Indiana over decades. Never once did I hear of an open response to any question that showed action based upon racism. I suggest that before anyone here ever uses the term again without being sanctioned, an agreed definition of the term "racism" be posted and pinned permanently at the top and every use of the term be measured against the accepted definition and found to fit or be removed.

That's a long way of saying that posters here do not know what racism means but use the term unwisely minute after minute here as a weapon of hate and those who use it shouldn't be allowed to do so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crayfish57 and 76-1
Wait, how did Trump run a racist campaign?

Please tell me you’re not referring to the laughable “make America great again is racist” nonsense.
Well, you and Crazy prove my point. You choose to ignore the racism, even deny it when it was not debatable. No, supporting strong border security isn't racist. Wanting to make America great again isn't racist. Categorizing a population of people as murderers, rapists, etc. is. There are too many examples to deny Trump's embrace of racism. McM suggests it's just Trump being strategic. I'm convinced it's who he is. Whether it is strategy or reality, voters who support Trump seem to be fine with it. It doesn't make Trump supporters racists, but the stink still applies.
 
Well, you and Crazy prove my point. You choose to ignore the racism, even deny it when it was not debatable. No, supporting strong border security isn't racist. Wanting to make America great again isn't racist. Categorizing a population of people as murderers, rapists, etc. is. There are too many examples to deny Trump's embrace of racism. McM suggests it's just Trump being strategic. I'm convinced it's who he is. Whether it is strategy or reality, voters who support Trump seem to be fine with it. It doesn't make Trump supporters racists, but the stink still applies.
You prove my point. You toss the term "racist" around but you can't define what constitutes racism. Understood - you don't want to be held to some standard. You just want to hurl hate into the room without being responsible for your defining what you mean. Make a list. What is racism? Not who is racist. Not until at least you are accountable for defining your hatred.
 
You prove my point. You toss the term "racist" around but you can't define what constitutes racism. Understood - you don't want to be held to some standard. You just want to hurl hate into the room without being responsible for your defining what you mean. Make a list. What is racism? Not who is racist. Not until at least you are accountable for defining your hatred.
This thread was click bait, just for me to get a vacation!
 
Obviously, you liked it from the title alone, right? Probably couldn't put it down..

From the notes, it seems to just be another excuse why rubes were rubes and voted for an obvious opportunistic grifting con man ..

This time it's okay because some democrats in the past acted like him?

And, it came to the conclusion that it was partially based on economics and partially based on local community sanctity. Just good hearted old fashioned neighborly concern, y'all ... and we's shop local. (Narrator: at the local walmart)

Wow, so profound.. what's the writer's next project, maga-splainin' the dampness of water?

I hope you didn't actually pay to read that .. lmao.

The reason he became president is obvious. There's a lot of poor, stupid, scared, disgruntled, malcontent people in this country and he was evil and opportunistic enough to manipulate their fears for his own gain. It's what populists do ....

The concept is too stupid to continue arguing but thanks for the small laugh ..
DUMB
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: stollcpa and Lucy01
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT