I was talking about the UK kid from sglow's that experienced death and then survived to write about it. That type of shit is doing nothing but fueling panic and overreaction.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Cream&Crimson
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I was talking about the UK kid from sglow's that experienced death and then survived to write about it. That type of shit is doing nothing but fueling panic and overreaction.
That’s the only thing I can think of as well. Every other action has been either extremely late, disorganized or flat out wrong. Like bringing back folks from Wuhan against the advice of international authorities, and training the folks treating these folks literally five days after. There’s no doubt that helped spread the disease faster on the west coast. It probably would’ve happened anyway, but they turbo boosted it.
That’s the problem with Trump specifically. He literally creates in and lives in his own reality. Facts never enter into his thought process. He literally feels something, and finds a way to make it real. Usually through distortion, lying or blaming someone else.
He’s literally the worst person we could have at the helm during something like this. Certainty is key in these situations. And he’s never been a bastion of certainty. Quite the opposite.
I had teams scheduled for travel to Egypt and Saudi Arabia this month and next. Just canceled them on the advice of CENTCOM. Have a team scheduled for Thailand too, but that’s more than 60 days from now. I’m guessing we’ll cancel that one. Have a team returning from UAE today. If that had been scheduled for next week it would have been canceled too. This thing is obviously impacting business, but it’ll eventually pass.
Agreed. If he would have just been calculated (not in his DNA I know) that the 3.4% fatality rate was high and not tried to throw out stupid guesses/estimates with zero basis, it would have been a Presidential approach.
Honesty is the best thing in these situations. And, we’ll, you already know the rest
Well, he's writing about what he's seeing on the ground and what's happening in his life. Not sure why that's so scandalous. I'm sure all of this could be confirmed pretty easily if you find it to be too fantastic to believe.
Side point...I'm not advocating China's approach. No way that would go over in the US, but I am curious to see whose approach will be more effective. My guess is the extreme approach will be better than Trump's: doing nothing, advising people to go to work, and blaming it all on Obama. Just my humble opinion.
Side point...I'm not advocating China's approach. No way that would go over in the US, but I am curious to see whose approach will be more effective. My guess is the extreme approach will be better than Trump's: doing nothing, advising people to go to work, and blaming it all on Obama. Just my humble opinion.
How's this article which confirms everything the guy said?
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...coronavirus-they-may-not-work-other-countries
I'll add Koch Brothers' scientists were involved with this.
I'm no expert, but I refer to the experts.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...coronavirus-they-may-not-work-other-countries
I'll add Koch Brothers' scientists were involved with this.
These are some of the startling observations in a report released on 28 February from a mission organized by the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Chinese government that allowed 13 foreigners to join 12 Chinese scientists on a tour of five cities in China to study the state of the COVID-19 epidemic and the effectiveness of the country’s response. The findings surprised several of the visiting scientists. “I thought there was no way those numbers could be real,” says epidemiologist Tim Eckmanns of the Robert Koch Institute, who was part of the mission.
But the report is unequivocal. “China’s bold approach to contain the rapid spread of this new respiratory pathogen has changed the course of a rapidly escalating and deadly epidemic,” it says. “This decline in COVID-19 cases across China is real.”
The question now is whether the world can take lessons from China’s apparent success—and whether the massive lockdowns and electronic surveillance measures imposed by an authoritarian government would work in other countries. “When you spend 20, 30 years in this business it’s like, ‘Seriously, you’re going to try and change that with those tactics?’” says Bruce Aylward, a Canadian WHO epidemiologist who led the international team and briefed journalists about its findings in Beijing and Geneva last week. “Hundreds of thousands of people in China did not get COVID-19 because of this aggressive response.”
But the report is unequivocal. “China’s bold approach to contain the rapid spread of this new respiratory pathogen has changed the course of a rapidly escalating and deadly epidemic,” it says. “This decline in COVID-19 cases across China is real.”
The question now is whether the world can take lessons from China’s apparent success—and whether the massive lockdowns and electronic surveillance measures imposed by an authoritarian government would work in other countries. “When you spend 20, 30 years in this business it’s like, ‘Seriously, you’re going to try and change that with those tactics?’” says Bruce Aylward, a Canadian WHO epidemiologist who led the international team and briefed journalists about its findings in Beijing and Geneva last week. “Hundreds of thousands of people in China did not get COVID-19 because of this aggressive response.”
I'm no expert, but I refer to the experts.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...china-is-locking-down-half-a-billion-citizens
"In the weeks since Jan. 23, when Wuhan, Hubei's capital city, prohibited anyone from leaving, government officials across the province have gradually ramped up efforts to keep residents inside their houses. Apartment compounds allowed people to go in and out through one gate, each household could only send one person out once every three days to purchase groceries, and everyone's temperature is checked upon entrance."
Sound familiar?
"In the weeks since Jan. 23, when Wuhan, Hubei's capital city, prohibited anyone from leaving, government officials across the province have gradually ramped up efforts to keep residents inside their houses. Apartment compounds allowed people to go in and out through one gate, each household could only send one person out once every three days to purchase groceries, and everyone's temperature is checked upon entrance."
Sound familiar?
Still too many unknowns.... will be one of those things where the accurate assessment of the situation will only be determined way in the rear view mirror, once it's generally over with.
I'm well aware of the lockdowns.... that wasn't my critique. His personal experience is valid to share..... pontificating beyond that in the 2nd half of the post is rather as relevant as any poster on here discussing it.
TPM is actually quite level headed. You must not be reading it if you think differently. They deal in facts.
I don't know...the fact that the Trump Admin has done nothing and advising people to go to work is about as dumb as you can get. I'm not sure why pointing out the obvious to anyone with eyes and ears is "pontificating".
Amazing how people keep trying to give this Admin the benefit of the doubt when they have been unambiguous failures in everything they've touched. Unless, of course, it's about enriching their friends and family. That is where Trump Corp excels
Amazing how people keep trying to give this Admin the benefit of the doubt when they have been unambiguous failures in everything they've touched. Unless, of course, it's about enriching their friends and family. That is where Trump Corp excels
Here's an article saying the exact opposite of the Chinese
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-it...navirus-missteps-11583508932?mod=hp_lead_pos3
For almost three weeks, doctors struggled to connect the dots between Ms. Wei and other early cases, many of them Hua’nan vendors. Patient after patient reported similar symptoms, but many, like her, visited small, poorly resourced clinics and hospitals. Some patients balked at paying for chest scans; others, including Ms. Wei, refused to be transferred to bigger facilities that were better-equipped to identify infectious diseases.
...
When doctors did finally establish the Hua’nan link in late December, they quarantined Ms. Wei and others like her and raised the alarm to their superiors. But they were prevented by Chinese authorities from alerting their peers, let alone the public.
One of the first doctors to alert Chinese authorities was criticized for “spreading rumors” after sharing with a former medical-school classmate a test result showing a patient had a coronavirus. Another doctor had to write a self-criticism letter saying his warnings “had a negative impact.”
Even after Chinese President Xi Jinping personally ordered officials to control the outbreak on Jan. 7, authorities kept denying it could spread between humans—something doctors had known was happening since late December—and went ahead with a Chinese Lunar New Year banquet involving tens of thousands of families in Wuhan.
China has rejected any criticism of its epidemic response, saying it bought time for the rest of the world. Mr. Xi told 170,000 officials in a teleconference on Feb. 23 that the country’s leadership acted swiftly and cohesively since the beginning.
...
It now appears that, based on a speech by Mr. Xi published in a Communist Party magazine in February, he was leading the epidemic response when Wuhan went ahead with New Year celebrations despite the risk of wider infections. He was also leading the response when authorities let some five million people leave Wuhan without screening, and when they waited until Jan. 20 to announce the virus was spreading between humans.
As a result, the virus spread much more widely than it might have by the time Beijing locked down Wuhan and three other cities on Jan. 23, in the biggest quarantine in history. Those and other later measures appear to have slowed the spread within China’s borders, but the global consequences of the early missteps have been severe.
“A lot fewer people would have died” in China had the government acted sooner, said Ms. Wei, in an interview on Feb. 16. She is now fully recovered and back home in the two-bedroom apartment she has barely left for almost two months. Her daughter, infected in mid-January, was still in a field hospital, she said.
Governor Holcomb took charge as he always seems to do. I think he has been pretty good imo.
I go through LA airport next week. If I get quarantined in Hawaii I’m kinda ok with that....
Here's a tip: If it's Trump, don't assume it's true. It doesn't matter if you already generally doubted that flu shots would prevent coronavirus or that a vaccine could be developed in three months. If it's Trump well you know what to believe. (He's so stupid sometimes, it may not even be a lie.)
What’s not being said is that China’s lockdown at their economic expense might have saved the rest of the world.
Trump? Oh wow. Trump is as paranoid as Howard Hughes was:
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-scared-germs-needs-drink-straw-avoid-contamination-671730
I'd say Trump's views on healthcare are the same as Trump's views on the economy amd everything else: "i've got mine, so go screw everyone else."
Let's face it. These signs prove the U.S. has no chance of minimizing this disease:
If the U.S. population was even minimally health conscious, and if local health officials were even minimally diligent in enforcing health rules, it would not be necessary to even have these signs.
You know what's ironic... The gf has been posted to Tianjin/Beijing for a project next week onwards.
One of the requirement is that she needs to be quarantined in her hotel for two weeks in Shanghai before starting work there.
AIA2P?You know what's ironic... The gf has been posted to Tianjin/Beijing for a project next week onwards.
One of the requirement is that she needs to be quarantined in her hotel for two weeks in Shanghai before starting work there.
Here's even better advice. On this issue in particular, if Trump says it, completely ignore it. He doesn't know or care what TF he's talking about. Listen to experts.
This is a frightening essay if it's any where near accurate.
I think most people aren’t aware of the risk of systemic healthcare failure due to #COVID19 because they simply haven’t run the numbers yet. Let’s talk math.
I think most people aren’t aware of the risk of systemic healthcare failure due to #COVID19 because they simply haven’t run the numbers yet. Let’s talk math.
I have read some pretty alarming analyses of what is happening and is to come. The US has no idea of the extent of the outbreak and is comically behind on testing. The spread of the virus is so far ahead of health authorities we are looking at an epidemic. Combine that with the devolved nature of the government in the US and you will get a haphazard, state by state, county by county approach to containment and mitigation. Americans love their freedom too much to ever tolerate a lockdown on their movement which is apparently what it takes to curb the spread.
Dr. Fauci said that 20% of cases result in hospitalization and if this virus infects millions of people you are looking at a completely overwhelmed medical system. There aren’t nearly enough beds to treat this and the US can’t build a field hospital in a week like China. The lack of universal healthcare and paid sick leave means a lot of people won’t seek treatment or stay home from work if they feel ill.
The President refuses to acknowledge the severity of the crisis and the people in charge of its management can’t say anything to upset Dear Leader who is only concerned about his political prospects. We live in very scary times.
Dr. Fauci said that 20% of cases result in hospitalization and if this virus infects millions of people you are looking at a completely overwhelmed medical system. There aren’t nearly enough beds to treat this and the US can’t build a field hospital in a week like China. The lack of universal healthcare and paid sick leave means a lot of people won’t seek treatment or stay home from work if they feel ill.
The President refuses to acknowledge the severity of the crisis and the people in charge of its management can’t say anything to upset Dear Leader who is only concerned about his political prospects. We live in very scary times.
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This I agree with. Americans would never tolerate the draconian measures required to contain a severe outbreak in the way that the Chinese and many other countries can implement. Plus, Americans have a certain arrogance about them that gets in the way of voluntarily locking themselves down. Everyone sees themselves and their own endeavors as "too important" to be interrupted.
That said, I think some of the more dire prognostications (such as the one linked by Cream&Crimson above) are probably a tad over the top. But who knows?
Not to make light of any of this, but to add a silver-lining, albeit small, apparently there's a massive inventory of lobster that can't be shipped and is super cheap. Time to hit the grocery store.
20/20 had a two hour segment on it last night. What was disturbing, among other things, is the amount of medicines/pills we get from China and the disruption the virus can cause in our ability to get same. The economy portion of the story began largely with retailers who make products in China struggling because of all of the plants/factories closing in China, but again the disturbing part is how reliant we are upon China for meds/pills.
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